I don't know about imersive reader. Reader mode strips out all the social media links e.g. "share on facebook" etc, as well as all the annoying ads that are sprinkled through many pages, letting you,k for example, see the ingredients and instructions for a recipe without the intervening disruptive ads. Or you can read an entire article without all those interruptions. In firefox, which is the easiest to use, in my view, you just hit f9 to invoke reader mode. That's all there is to it. When you move to another site, its turned off, so must be turned on each time you want to use it. You can also tottle it off if you're on a site where it didn't work well for some reason, just by hitting f9 again.


Mary


On 8/7/2022 9:59 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

What is Reader mode?
Is it the same as immersive reader?
I seem to believe that if I use immersive reader it just continuously reads the whole webpage with no control to read line by line word by word, paragraph, etc.

On Aug 7, 2022, at 10:06 AM, Mary Otten <maryotten@...> wrote:

Use reader mode in your browser if available. Gets rid of all the crap.


Mary

On 8/7/2022 8:01 AM, Janet Brandly wrote:
I run into this a lot too and would appreciate any ideas about how to bypass it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Howard Traxler
Sent: August 7, 2022 8:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] inserted advertising

On many websites, on lots of lines NVDA says

inserted advertising inserted inserted

This information doesn't seem to be on screen so it's probably a function of NVDA. I'm sure it's something I can turn off if I knew how or where. Can someone give me a hand with this one?


Thank you

Howard or <HT>

Also, I spent perhaps one or two sentences mentioning this at some point, but I'll describe it again in a bit more detail here in case it is helpful.

Now that you turned off automatic updates, a dialog will appear ;perhaps every time or a lot of times shortly after you run the program telling you there is an update.  Press escape and the dialog will close.  You will be back wherever you were.

As I recall, you won't see the dialog again as long as the program remains opened.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:15 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't know enough about what you did to understand why it left the version the same and only replaced the files you want replaced, but if it works well, that's fine.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:09 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Well I used my tried and true method of saving settings/mail/whatever from Thunderbird that I have use since back in the XP days and everything is fine now that I have installed version 102.0 and stopped future updates.

1.  Close Thunderbird.
2.  Copy the Thunderbird folder from c:\users\<computer name>\app data\roaming\ to a safe place.
3.  Do a complete uninstall of Thunderbird.
4.  After installation is complete, don't run Thunderbird at all. Uncheck the check box that says: 'launch Thunderbird' which appears in the Finish dialogue after installation is complete.
5.  Paste the Thunderbird folder into the path specified above. When prompted replace the files.'
6.  Then run Thunderbird and everything is as before.

In this case, I am running version 102.0 which still shows the status bar properly and which has no other issues that I can see. (some have reported issues with 102.0 version.)

I have now unchecked the auto update in the settings for Thunderbird and I should be good to go until I figure out what is happening or whatever accessibility has been broken is restored.

On 8/7/2022 10:21 AM, Gene wrote:

This method of finding and copying the profile folder to a new installation should work:
It is a long description.  New main steps start on new lines.
Open help in Thunderbird, alt h.
Down arrow to trouble shooting information and press enter.
Tab until you get to a button that says open folder and press the space bar.
You are now in the profile folder.
Back space once.
You should now be on the profile folder.
Copy it to the clipboard.
Close where you are with control f4.
You are now in the main program window.
Close it.
Paste the profile folder wherever you want.  You are copying it in that way just as you copy any other folder.
Uninstall Thunderbird.
Install the version you want.
Follow the same instructions to get to the profile folder and be at it not in it.
Then alt tab and close the program window.

You will be back in the folders and files list.  Delete the profile folder.  Copy the old profile folder folder to gthat location.

Now close the files and folders list with alt f4.
Open thunderbird again.
You will be back in troubleshooting information.
Use control f4 to close it and you will now be in the main program window.

See if everything has been transferred.

If so, there is no more to do.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:07 AM, Gene wrote:

You can copy the profile folder to a location outside of the program, then uninstall the version you are running and install the one you want.  If you delete the profile folder in the new copy, and paste the profile you saved to the same location, you will have all your messages, the address book, and I would imagine anything else, such as add-ons, though I don't know about add-ons and other items.

Those who know more about this may comment further.  I'm not sure where the profile is in the installed version.

But if you are talking about saving all your messages and transferring them using a different method, and manually exporting and importing the address book, placing the profile in a new copy of the program eliminates the need for all that work.

I'll add that those were my results, playing with the portable version.  I expect them to be the same if you are copying the profile in an installed version or from an installed version to a portable version.  I haven't verified that. 

You may want to manually save what you want to save, then try the copy profile method so that in case it doesn't work as I expect, you won't have lost anything.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:56 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Of course I have been doing this for years now.  BTW, with Mozilla products, to close windows of any kind, control + W also works. It never fails.

I do have an old Thunderbird 102.0 executable version on my old computer. I always download the current release version a few days after I am updated within a program of any kind including Thunderbird.  I am going to save all my mail and then do a total uninstall and reinstall of 102.0 and immediately block any further updates under settings. I will keep things that way until further notice. Maybe, I'll even take your advice and run any future full releases as a portable version first before doing a full install--a kind of shake down cruise.

On 8/7/2022 9:11 AM, Gene wrote:

Here is a correction.  Close the about dialog with either escape or alt f4.  I thought the dialog opened in a new tab but it is somehow a dialog even though it presents itself as a web page.  It closes in the usual way about dialogs close.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:

It may be that if you have version 91.x and earlier, you won't update directly to 102.x.  The program may  first update you to an earlier version and from that earlier version the next update may be to 102.exe.  But if you have a recent enough version, you will get an update to 102.exe.

I updated last night.  The version I got last night is 102.1.1.

the page is not worded correctly, whatever is meant. 

In addition, open the about dialog, alt h, a.
Then switch to browse mode so you can move around the page like a web page, which it actually is, NVDA key space.
Move to the top of the page, then start down arrowing.  You will see the version number you are using and a little below that you will see that you are on the main release channel.  The program's own about dialog is telling you what the situation is.

Closed the about dialog with control f4, not alt f4.
Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Well that seems to be true--unless you look at the What's new link.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/102.1.1/releasenotes/
Here's what it says:
Thunderbird version 102.1.1 is only offered as direct download from thunderbird.not as an upgrade from Thunderbird version 91 or earlier.
...and even more confusing:
Version 102.1.1, first offered to channel users on August 8, 2022  (which is actually tomorrow.)

I downloaded the 102.0 from within Thunderbird a few weeks ago. Just yesterday, the program auto updated from 102.1.0 to 102.1.1.  This is when I first noticed the status bar issue.

So explain that Gene! It's liked the twilight zone.

On 8/7/2022 4:21 AM, Gene wrote:

I am using the portable version and, though I doubt it, perhaps that accounts for the difference. 

Whatever the case, in a later message, you said that the version you are using isn't available on the download page you were working with.  I don't know where you were looking.  If I look on this page:
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
I see links to download Thunderbird.
Here is the first download link and you will see that it gives the 102.x. version number.
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-102.1.1-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

On the page I linked to above, not the download link, you will also see a get the beta link.has a get the beta link.  If you follow that, the link to download the beta, the first link offered gives a higher verssion number as below:
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-104.0b2-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

I used the copy  link feature of Firefox when I was on the download links.  I am presenting the written out underlying links, not the English wording you see if you just look at the page.

I don't know where you are looking but the page I just gave the link to has correct version availability.

In short, you are using the latest nonbeta version.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 10:48 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

I can tell you this.  When I use the NVDA keystroke to read the whole screen for desktops insert + B, (useful in dialogues and other things that sometimes don't automatically read) if you listen to all the verbiage, finally at the very end, the status bar is read.  This means that it is still being displayed in some form.

On 8/6/2022 10:52 PM, Gene wrote:

The status bar was not present in the previous version on my machine and it still isn't.

I'm going to check to see if there is even supposed to be a status bar any longer.  We don't know if it has been removed.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

I don't know why you don't see the button.  I see it running the same version you are.  Did you tab through all fields?

Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:39 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

This method of backing up the profile is out of date.After you enter Troubleshooting mode, there is no 'open folder' button anywhere.

On 8/7/2022 10:21 AM, Gene wrote:

This method of finding and copying the profile folder to a new installation should work:
It is a long description.  New main steps start on new lines.
Open help in Thunderbird, alt h.
Down arrow to trouble shooting information and press enter.
Tab until you get to a button that says open folder and press the space bar.
You are now in the profile folder.
Back space once.
You should now be on the profile folder.
Copy it to the clipboard.
Close where you are with control f4.
You are now in the main program window.
Close it.
Paste the profile folder wherever you want.  You are copying it in that way just as you copy any other folder.
Uninstall Thunderbird.
Install the version you want.
Follow the same instructions to get to the profile folder and be at it not in it.
Then alt tab and close the program window.

You will be back in the folders and files list.  Delete the profile folder.  Copy the old profile folder folder to gthat location.

Now close the files and folders list with alt f4.
Open thunderbird again.
You will be back in troubleshooting information.
Use control f4 to close it and you will now be in the main program window.

See if everything has been transferred.

If so, there is no more to do.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:07 AM, Gene wrote:

You can copy the profile folder to a location outside of the program, then uninstall the version you are running and install the one you want.  If you delete the profile folder in the new copy, and paste the profile you saved to the same location, you will have all your messages, the address book, and I would imagine anything else, such as add-ons, though I don't know about add-ons and other items.

Those who know more about this may comment further.  I'm not sure where the profile is in the installed version.

But if you are talking about saving all your messages and transferring them using a different method, and manually exporting and importing the address book, placing the profile in a new copy of the program eliminates the need for all that work.

I'll add that those were my results, playing with the portable version.  I expect them to be the same if you are copying the profile in an installed version or from an installed version to a portable version.  I haven't verified that. 

You may want to manually save what you want to save, then try the copy profile method so that in case it doesn't work as I expect, you won't have lost anything.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:56 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Of course I have been doing this for years now.  BTW, with Mozilla products, to close windows of any kind, control + W also works. It never fails.

I do have an old Thunderbird 102.0 executable version on my old computer. I always download the current release version a few days after I am updated within a program of any kind including Thunderbird.  I am going to save all my mail and then do a total uninstall and reinstall of 102.0 and immediately block any further updates under settings. I will keep things that way until further notice. Maybe, I'll even take your advice and run any future full releases as a portable version first before doing a full install--a kind of shake down cruise.

On 8/7/2022 9:11 AM, Gene wrote:

Here is a correction.  Close the about dialog with either escape or alt f4.  I thought the dialog opened in a new tab but it is somehow a dialog even though it presents itself as a web page.  It closes in the usual way about dialogs close.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:

It may be that if you have version 91.x and earlier, you won't update directly to 102.x.  The program may  first update you to an earlier version and from that earlier version the next update may be to 102.exe.  But if you have a recent enough version, you will get an update to 102.exe.

I updated last night.  The version I got last night is 102.1.1.

the page is not worded correctly, whatever is meant. 

In addition, open the about dialog, alt h, a.
Then switch to browse mode so you can move around the page like a web page, which it actually is, NVDA key space.
Move to the top of the page, then start down arrowing.  You will see the version number you are using and a little below that you will see that you are on the main release channel.  The program's own about dialog is telling you what the situation is.

Closed the about dialog with control f4, not alt f4.
Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Well that seems to be true--unless you look at the What's new link.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/102.1.1/releasenotes/
Here's what it says:
Thunderbird version 102.1.1 is only offered as direct download from thunderbird.not as an upgrade from Thunderbird version 91 or earlier.
...and even more confusing:
Version 102.1.1, first offered to channel users on August 8, 2022  (which is actually tomorrow.)

I downloaded the 102.0 from within Thunderbird a few weeks ago. Just yesterday, the program auto updated from 102.1.0 to 102.1.1.  This is when I first noticed the status bar issue.

So explain that Gene! It's liked the twilight zone.

On 8/7/2022 4:21 AM, Gene wrote:

I am using the portable version and, though I doubt it, perhaps that accounts for the difference. 

Whatever the case, in a later message, you said that the version you are using isn't available on the download page you were working with.  I don't know where you were looking.  If I look on this page:
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
I see links to download Thunderbird.
Here is the first download link and you will see that it gives the 102.x. version number.
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-102.1.1-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

On the page I linked to above, not the download link, you will also see a get the beta link.has a get the beta link.  If you follow that, the link to download the beta, the first link offered gives a higher verssion number as below:
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-104.0b2-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

I used the copy  link feature of Firefox when I was on the download links.  I am presenting the written out underlying links, not the English wording you see if you just look at the page.

I don't know where you are looking but the page I just gave the link to has correct version availability.

In short, you are using the latest nonbeta version.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 10:48 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

I can tell you this.  When I use the NVDA keystroke to read the whole screen for desktops insert + B, (useful in dialogues and other things that sometimes don't automatically read) if you listen to all the verbiage, finally at the very end, the status bar is read.  This means that it is still being displayed in some form.

On 8/6/2022 10:52 PM, Gene wrote:

The status bar was not present in the previous version on my machine and it still isn't.

I'm going to check to see if there is even supposed to be a status bar any longer.  We don't know if it has been removed.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

I don't know enough about what you did to understand why it left the version the same and only replaced the files you want replaced, but if it works well, that's fine.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:09 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Well I used my tried and true method of saving settings/mail/whatever from Thunderbird that I have use since back in the XP days and everything is fine now that I have installed version 102.0 and stopped future updates.

1.  Close Thunderbird.
2.  Copy the Thunderbird folder from c:\users\<computer name>\app data\roaming\ to a safe place.
3.  Do a complete uninstall of Thunderbird.
4.  After installation is complete, don't run Thunderbird at all. Uncheck the check box that says: 'launch Thunderbird' which appears in the Finish dialogue after installation is complete.
5.  Paste the Thunderbird folder into the path specified above. When prompted replace the files.'
6.  Then run Thunderbird and everything is as before.

In this case, I am running version 102.0 which still shows the status bar properly and which has no other issues that I can see. (some have reported issues with 102.0 version.)

I have now unchecked the auto update in the settings for Thunderbird and I should be good to go until I figure out what is happening or whatever accessibility has been broken is restored.

On 8/7/2022 10:21 AM, Gene wrote:

This method of finding and copying the profile folder to a new installation should work:
It is a long description.  New main steps start on new lines.
Open help in Thunderbird, alt h.
Down arrow to trouble shooting information and press enter.
Tab until you get to a button that says open folder and press the space bar.
You are now in the profile folder.
Back space once.
You should now be on the profile folder.
Copy it to the clipboard.
Close where you are with control f4.
You are now in the main program window.
Close it.
Paste the profile folder wherever you want.  You are copying it in that way just as you copy any other folder.
Uninstall Thunderbird.
Install the version you want.
Follow the same instructions to get to the profile folder and be at it not in it.
Then alt tab and close the program window.

You will be back in the folders and files list.  Delete the profile folder.  Copy the old profile folder folder to gthat location.

Now close the files and folders list with alt f4.
Open thunderbird again.
You will be back in troubleshooting information.
Use control f4 to close it and you will now be in the main program window.

See if everything has been transferred.

If so, there is no more to do.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:07 AM, Gene wrote:

You can copy the profile folder to a location outside of the program, then uninstall the version you are running and install the one you want.  If you delete the profile folder in the new copy, and paste the profile you saved to the same location, you will have all your messages, the address book, and I would imagine anything else, such as add-ons, though I don't know about add-ons and other items.

Those who know more about this may comment further.  I'm not sure where the profile is in the installed version.

But if you are talking about saving all your messages and transferring them using a different method, and manually exporting and importing the address book, placing the profile in a new copy of the program eliminates the need for all that work.

I'll add that those were my results, playing with the portable version.  I expect them to be the same if you are copying the profile in an installed version or from an installed version to a portable version.  I haven't verified that. 

You may want to manually save what you want to save, then try the copy profile method so that in case it doesn't work as I expect, you won't have lost anything.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:56 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Of course I have been doing this for years now.  BTW, with Mozilla products, to close windows of any kind, control + W also works. It never fails.

I do have an old Thunderbird 102.0 executable version on my old computer. I always download the current release version a few days after I am updated within a program of any kind including Thunderbird.  I am going to save all my mail and then do a total uninstall and reinstall of 102.0 and immediately block any further updates under settings. I will keep things that way until further notice. Maybe, I'll even take your advice and run any future full releases as a portable version first before doing a full install--a kind of shake down cruise.

On 8/7/2022 9:11 AM, Gene wrote:

Here is a correction.  Close the about dialog with either escape or alt f4.  I thought the dialog opened in a new tab but it is somehow a dialog even though it presents itself as a web page.  It closes in the usual way about dialogs close.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:

It may be that if you have version 91.x and earlier, you won't update directly to 102.x.  The program may  first update you to an earlier version and from that earlier version the next update may be to 102.exe.  But if you have a recent enough version, you will get an update to 102.exe.

I updated last night.  The version I got last night is 102.1.1.

the page is not worded correctly, whatever is meant. 

In addition, open the about dialog, alt h, a.
Then switch to browse mode so you can move around the page like a web page, which it actually is, NVDA key space.
Move to the top of the page, then start down arrowing.  You will see the version number you are using and a little below that you will see that you are on the main release channel.  The program's own about dialog is telling you what the situation is.

Closed the about dialog with control f4, not alt f4.
Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Well that seems to be true--unless you look at the What's new link.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/102.1.1/releasenotes/
Here's what it says:
Thunderbird version 102.1.1 is only offered as direct download from thunderbird.not as an upgrade from Thunderbird version 91 or earlier.
...and even more confusing:
Version 102.1.1, first offered to channel users on August 8, 2022  (which is actually tomorrow.)

I downloaded the 102.0 from within Thunderbird a few weeks ago. Just yesterday, the program auto updated from 102.1.0 to 102.1.1.  This is when I first noticed the status bar issue.

So explain that Gene! It's liked the twilight zone.

On 8/7/2022 4:21 AM, Gene wrote:

I am using the portable version and, though I doubt it, perhaps that accounts for the difference. 

Whatever the case, in a later message, you said that the version you are using isn't available on the download page you were working with.  I don't know where you were looking.  If I look on this page:
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
I see links to download Thunderbird.
Here is the first download link and you will see that it gives the 102.x. version number.
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-102.1.1-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

On the page I linked to above, not the download link, you will also see a get the beta link.has a get the beta link.  If you follow that, the link to download the beta, the first link offered gives a higher verssion number as below:
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-104.0b2-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

I used the copy  link feature of Firefox when I was on the download links.  I am presenting the written out underlying links, not the English wording you see if you just look at the page.

I don't know where you are looking but the page I just gave the link to has correct version availability.

In short, you are using the latest nonbeta version.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 10:48 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

I can tell you this.  When I use the NVDA keystroke to read the whole screen for desktops insert + B, (useful in dialogues and other things that sometimes don't automatically read) if you listen to all the verbiage, finally at the very end, the status bar is read.  This means that it is still being displayed in some form.

On 8/6/2022 10:52 PM, Gene wrote:

The status bar was not present in the previous version on my machine and it still isn't.

I'm going to check to see if there is even supposed to be a status bar any longer.  We don't know if it has been removed.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

Hi Gene,

Well I used my tried and true method of saving settings/mail/whatever from Thunderbird that I have use since back in the XP days and everything is fine now that I have installed version 102.0 and stopped future updates.

1.  Close Thunderbird.
2.  Copy the Thunderbird folder from c:\users\<computer name>\app data\roaming\ to a safe place.
3.  Do a complete uninstall of Thunderbird.
4.  After installation is complete, don't run Thunderbird at all. Uncheck the check box that says: 'launch Thunderbird' which appears in the Finish dialogue after installation is complete.
5.  Paste the Thunderbird folder into the path specified above. When prompted replace the files.'
6.  Then run Thunderbird and everything is as before.

In this case, I am running version 102.0 which still shows the status bar properly and which has no other issues that I can see. (some have reported issues with 102.0 version.)

I have now unchecked the auto update in the settings for Thunderbird and I should be good to go until I figure out what is happening or whatever accessibility has been broken is restored.

On 8/7/2022 10:21 AM, Gene wrote:

This method of finding and copying the profile folder to a new installation should work:
It is a long description.  New main steps start on new lines.
Open help in Thunderbird, alt h.
Down arrow to trouble shooting information and press enter.
Tab until you get to a button that says open folder and press the space bar.
You are now in the profile folder.
Back space once.
You should now be on the profile folder.
Copy it to the clipboard.
Close where you are with control f4.
You are now in the main program window.
Close it.
Paste the profile folder wherever you want.  You are copying it in that way just as you copy any other folder.
Uninstall Thunderbird.
Install the version you want.
Follow the same instructions to get to the profile folder and be at it not in it.
Then alt tab and close the program window.

You will be back in the folders and files list.  Delete the profile folder.  Copy the old profile folder folder to gthat location.

Now close the files and folders list with alt f4.
Open thunderbird again.
You will be back in troubleshooting information.
Use control f4 to close it and you will now be in the main program window.

See if everything has been transferred.

If so, there is no more to do.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:07 AM, Gene wrote:

You can copy the profile folder to a location outside of the program, then uninstall the version you are running and install the one you want.  If you delete the profile folder in the new copy, and paste the profile you saved to the same location, you will have all your messages, the address book, and I would imagine anything else, such as add-ons, though I don't know about add-ons and other items.

Those who know more about this may comment further.  I'm not sure where the profile is in the installed version.

But if you are talking about saving all your messages and transferring them using a different method, and manually exporting and importing the address book, placing the profile in a new copy of the program eliminates the need for all that work.

I'll add that those were my results, playing with the portable version.  I expect them to be the same if you are copying the profile in an installed version or from an installed version to a portable version.  I haven't verified that. 

You may want to manually save what you want to save, then try the copy profile method so that in case it doesn't work as I expect, you won't have lost anything.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:56 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Of course I have been doing this for years now.  BTW, with Mozilla products, to close windows of any kind, control + W also works. It never fails.

I do have an old Thunderbird 102.0 executable version on my old computer. I always download the current release version a few days after I am updated within a program of any kind including Thunderbird.  I am going to save all my mail and then do a total uninstall and reinstall of 102.0 and immediately block any further updates under settings. I will keep things that way until further notice. Maybe, I'll even take your advice and run any future full releases as a portable version first before doing a full install--a kind of shake down cruise.

On 8/7/2022 9:11 AM, Gene wrote:

Here is a correction.  Close the about dialog with either escape or alt f4.  I thought the dialog opened in a new tab but it is somehow a dialog even though it presents itself as a web page.  It closes in the usual way about dialogs close.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:

It may be that if you have version 91.x and earlier, you won't update directly to 102.x.  The program may  first update you to an earlier version and from that earlier version the next update may be to 102.exe.  But if you have a recent enough version, you will get an update to 102.exe.

I updated last night.  The version I got last night is 102.1.1.

the page is not worded correctly, whatever is meant. 

In addition, open the about dialog, alt h, a.
Then switch to browse mode so you can move around the page like a web page, which it actually is, NVDA key space.
Move to the top of the page, then start down arrowing.  You will see the version number you are using and a little below that you will see that you are on the main release channel.  The program's own about dialog is telling you what the situation is.

Closed the about dialog with control f4, not alt f4.
Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Well that seems to be true--unless you look at the What's new link.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/102.1.1/releasenotes/
Here's what it says:
Thunderbird version 102.1.1 is only offered as direct download from thunderbird.not as an upgrade from Thunderbird version 91 or earlier.
...and even more confusing:
Version 102.1.1, first offered to channel users on August 8, 2022  (which is actually tomorrow.)

I downloaded the 102.0 from within Thunderbird a few weeks ago. Just yesterday, the program auto updated from 102.1.0 to 102.1.1.  This is when I first noticed the status bar issue.

So explain that Gene! It's liked the twilight zone.

On 8/7/2022 4:21 AM, Gene wrote:

I am using the portable version and, though I doubt it, perhaps that accounts for the difference. 

Whatever the case, in a later message, you said that the version you are using isn't available on the download page you were working with.  I don't know where you were looking.  If I look on this page:
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
I see links to download Thunderbird.
Here is the first download link and you will see that it gives the 102.x. version number.
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-102.1.1-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

On the page I linked to above, not the download link, you will also see a get the beta link.has a get the beta link.  If you follow that, the link to download the beta, the first link offered gives a higher verssion number as below:
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-104.0b2-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

I used the copy  link feature of Firefox when I was on the download links.  I am presenting the written out underlying links, not the English wording you see if you just look at the page.

I don't know where you are looking but the page I just gave the link to has correct version availability.

In short, you are using the latest nonbeta version.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 10:48 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

I can tell you this.  When I use the NVDA keystroke to read the whole screen for desktops insert + B, (useful in dialogues and other things that sometimes don't automatically read) if you listen to all the verbiage, finally at the very end, the status bar is read.  This means that it is still being displayed in some form.

On 8/6/2022 10:52 PM, Gene wrote:

The status bar was not present in the previous version on my machine and it still isn't.

I'm going to check to see if there is even supposed to be a status bar any longer.  We don't know if it has been removed.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.

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Hello

Set column/row header is done with NVDA+C/R.
NVDA+F7 instead is used to open the list of elements dialog (sheets, notes, formulas, etc.)

Not clear what you exactly want to do.

Cheers,

Cyrille

Hi Gene,

This method of backing up the profile is out of date.After you enter Troubleshooting mode, there is no 'open folder' button anywhere.

On 8/7/2022 10:21 AM, Gene wrote:

This method of finding and copying the profile folder to a new installation should work:
It is a long description.  New main steps start on new lines.
Open help in Thunderbird, alt h.
Down arrow to trouble shooting information and press enter.
Tab until you get to a button that says open folder and press the space bar.
You are now in the profile folder.
Back space once.
You should now be on the profile folder.
Copy it to the clipboard.
Close where you are with control f4.
You are now in the main program window.
Close it.
Paste the profile folder wherever you want.  You are copying it in that way just as you copy any other folder.
Uninstall Thunderbird.
Install the version you want.
Follow the same instructions to get to the profile folder and be at it not in it.
Then alt tab and close the program window.

You will be back in the folders and files list.  Delete the profile folder.  Copy the old profile folder folder to gthat location.

Now close the files and folders list with alt f4.
Open thunderbird again.
You will be back in troubleshooting information.
Use control f4 to close it and you will now be in the main program window.

See if everything has been transferred.

If so, there is no more to do.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 9:07 AM, Gene wrote:

You can copy the profile folder to a location outside of the program, then uninstall the version you are running and install the one you want.  If you delete the profile folder in the new copy, and paste the profile you saved to the same location, you will have all your messages, the address book, and I would imagine anything else, such as add-ons, though I don't know about add-ons and other items.

Those who know more about this may comment further.  I'm not sure where the profile is in the installed version.

But if you are talking about saving all your messages and transferring them using a different method, and manually exporting and importing the address book, placing the profile in a new copy of the program eliminates the need for all that work.

I'll add that those were my results, playing with the portable version.  I expect them to be the same if you are copying the profile in an installed version or from an installed version to a portable version.  I haven't verified that. 

You may want to manually save what you want to save, then try the copy profile method so that in case it doesn't work as I expect, you won't have lost anything.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:56 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Of course I have been doing this for years now.  BTW, with Mozilla products, to close windows of any kind, control + W also works. It never fails.

I do have an old Thunderbird 102.0 executable version on my old computer. I always download the current release version a few days after I am updated within a program of any kind including Thunderbird.  I am going to save all my mail and then do a total uninstall and reinstall of 102.0 and immediately block any further updates under settings. I will keep things that way until further notice. Maybe, I'll even take your advice and run any future full releases as a portable version first before doing a full install--a kind of shake down cruise.

On 8/7/2022 9:11 AM, Gene wrote:

Here is a correction.  Close the about dialog with either escape or alt f4.  I thought the dialog opened in a new tab but it is somehow a dialog even though it presents itself as a web page.  It closes in the usual way about dialogs close.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:

It may be that if you have version 91.x and earlier, you won't update directly to 102.x.  The program may  first update you to an earlier version and from that earlier version the next update may be to 102.exe.  But if you have a recent enough version, you will get an update to 102.exe.

I updated last night.  The version I got last night is 102.1.1.

the page is not worded correctly, whatever is meant. 

In addition, open the about dialog, alt h, a.
Then switch to browse mode so you can move around the page like a web page, which it actually is, NVDA key space.
Move to the top of the page, then start down arrowing.  You will see the version number you are using and a little below that you will see that you are on the main release channel.  The program's own about dialog is telling you what the situation is.

Closed the about dialog with control f4, not alt f4.
Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

Well that seems to be true--unless you look at the What's new link.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/102.1.1/releasenotes/
Here's what it says:
Thunderbird version 102.1.1 is only offered as direct download from thunderbird.not as an upgrade from Thunderbird version 91 or earlier.
...and even more confusing:
Version 102.1.1, first offered to channel users on August 8, 2022  (which is actually tomorrow.)

I downloaded the 102.0 from within Thunderbird a few weeks ago. Just yesterday, the program auto updated from 102.1.0 to 102.1.1.  This is when I first noticed the status bar issue.

So explain that Gene! It's liked the twilight zone.

On 8/7/2022 4:21 AM, Gene wrote:

I am using the portable version and, though I doubt it, perhaps that accounts for the difference. 

Whatever the case, in a later message, you said that the version you are using isn't available on the download page you were working with.  I don't know where you were looking.  If I look on this page:
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
I see links to download Thunderbird.
Here is the first download link and you will see that it gives the 102.x. version number.
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-102.1.1-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

On the page I linked to above, not the download link, you will also see a get the beta link.has a get the beta link.  If you follow that, the link to download the beta, the first link offered gives a higher verssion number as below:
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-104.0b2-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

I used the copy  link feature of Firefox when I was on the download links.  I am presenting the written out underlying links, not the English wording you see if you just look at the page.

I don't know where you are looking but the page I just gave the link to has correct version availability.

In short, you are using the latest nonbeta version.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 10:48 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Gene,

I can tell you this.  When I use the NVDA keystroke to read the whole screen for desktops insert + B, (useful in dialogues and other things that sometimes don't automatically read) if you listen to all the verbiage, finally at the very end, the status bar is read.  This means that it is still being displayed in some form.

On 8/6/2022 10:52 PM, Gene wrote:

The status bar was not present in the previous version on my machine and it still isn't.

I'm going to check to see if there is even supposed to be a status bar any longer.  We don't know if it has been removed.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.

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For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

Hi


I remember a fix but can not remember what version of excel it was but one was apparently if you went into excel then tried to arrow around say from a1 to other cells it would not say any thing.


Apparently if the scroll lock was on it would cause this problem


When turned off you could arrow around and hear what was in each cell. Maybe it was hit accidentally.


I did also about the same time see the other suggestion given but think it was for latest excel?



Let us know if it was the scroll lock causing the problem?


Gene nz


On 7/08/2022 6:23 pm, William wrote:

Luke

My experience is disabling the uia option in nvda will correctly report the set column and row header.


Luke Davis 於 7/8/2022 07:10 寫道:

Dark Count wrote:

I am running into a rather odd situation when I startup Excel
Or when I take focus away from it and minimize, then come back to it.
NVDA will say A1 selected, and then will not speak as I arrow around.

I had something similar to this happening with Office 2019, about 18 months ago. I reported it in a Github issue, but it never got any love. In my case, the logs showed that the virtual buffer was crashing, and the alt trick caused it to be reinitialized. But switching apps would also fix it, which doesn't seem to be happening with you.

Have you tried NVDA with add-ons disabled?

Also, have you tried the COM Registration Fixing Tool in the NVDA tools menu?

Luke

Speaking of people not understanding what to update and what not, here is an important article.
https://www.howtogeek.com/369656/dont-click-check-for-updates-unless-you-want-unstable-windows-10-updates/
It is about Windows 10.  I haven't checked online to see if this is any different in Windows 11.

As far as I can see, what is being discussed in this article is what NVDA sees as a button in the Windows update dialog.  There is a button that says check for updates.

Don't press it unless you want unstable updates that haven't been fully tested and may be harmful. 

There is nothing wrong with opening the updates dialog and seeing if any new updates are available.  But don't press the check for updates button unless you want to receive what amount to beta updates that may be harmful.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 3:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 04:04 PM, Gene wrote:

The program itself is telling you to update if you rely on information in the about dialog.  It also tells you that you are on the main update channel. 

-
Indeed.  If you have automatic updating enabled, but are between the check for update cycles (as it's not checked every 5 minutes, but every few days), going to the Help menu and choosing About Thunderbird will trigger a manual check for updates, and will notify you if one is available and tell you what the version number of that update actually is.

So far, in my personal experience, I have not seen a single instance of Thunderbird 91.X ever offer anything other than the next of the 91.X dot releases.  A jump to the on-hundred or higher (and I think one oh two is the first in that series that has now been released) versions has not been offered.  And this is congruent with what Mozilla states about the update progression as it currently exists at the time of this writing.

I've also learned, and this is not meant to be accusatory, that a very great many end users have taken actions that they neither realize they have taken or have applied updates they weren't exactly aware they were applying.  One of my perennial favorites is those who claim that either Windows 10 Feature Updates or the in-place upgradt to Windows 11 happened without their input.  Ever since full-automatic updating for these classes of changes ceased there is always a "Download and install" link for them, with the description of what you're downloading and installing before it.  How anyone "misses" this before activating that link will always elude me.  This has absolutely nothing to do with a given users visual status.  I run in to this all the time when I'm out tending to people's computers.  They're not lying, in the conventional sense, in many cases when they say, "But I didn't {insert thing here/update in this conversation."  But they are mistaken, as certain update paths just do not happen, settings do not get changed, unless you as an individual or something you chose to install actually goes in and makes settings changes.  And in some cases, there are ways to verify what actually happened, though you seldom want to involve the client in that regard, but where having done so makes it easier to determine how to proceed or to back out a given change.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

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