Date   

locked Re: Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 06:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Will you be warned about what you will lose during installation?
-
Gene,

No, because you would never lose anything during installation.

It's been ages since I paid attention to exactly what happens during an NVDA uninstall.  I'm on complete auto-pilot and just know what I need to hit to get it to uninstall while leaving my stuff in place.  There is no correctly written uninstaller that will not warn you if, during the uninstall, your user settings were being removed along with the software as well.  They're generally not, and most modern uninstallers have an explicit dialog that asks you whether you intend to reinstall or not, and if you do not if you wish to remove your user data as well.

I'll bet Quentin sees this topic and can answer definitively about what NVDA asks during the uninstall process.

I've also never had an issue with an install-over install, either, as this doesn't touch the user's AppData folder, either, and it's been just like an uninstall/reinstall when I've done it.  That is, for all practical intents and purposes, what an "upgrade from within NVDA itself" does.  I believe the NVDA installer will uninstall an existing prior version when it runs, no matter how it was triggered, if memory serves.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: update error message

Quentin Christensen
 

We did put out an add-on with the fix, but that was only a stop-gap measure - once NVDA 2021.3 (and now 2021.3.1) came out, we would recommend anyone still experiencing the issue of errors checking for updates, to please download the latest version manually from https://www.nvaccess.org/ - you can go to https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2021-3-1/ to see what is new - as mentioned, once you install that when it checks for updates it will prompt Windows to ensure it has the latest security certificates (which was the issue originally).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 8:08 AM Chris via groups.io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes, you will have to download and install the nvda installer manually, it cannot be done through check for updates, once you have updated manually it should update normally from now on

 

 

From: Ame
Sent: 13 January 2022 20:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] update error message

 

Hi all!

 

Just thought I’d see if there’s a new update so I went to the help menu and clicked check for updates.  I got an error.  All it said was “error checking for update.”  Is this a common thing lately?  Is there anything I can do?  This is the first time I’ve ever encountered this issue in my nearly 12 years using NVDA.   

 

Thanks a bunch.  I’ll appreciate any help you can give me.

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


locked Re: Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

Gene
 

I should revise what I said.  I don’t know if the currently installed version should be uninstalled before installing the new version but from what you say, nothing will be lost even if you uninstall the version you are running before installing the current version except uncompatible add-ons. 
 
Will you be warned about what you will lose during installation?
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
Could the user run the installer and leve the currently installed version in place?  Even if the user should uninstall the current version, from what you say, installing the new version after uninstalling the currently installed version would not mean that anything was lost or very little, if anything.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 06:08 PM, Arlene wrote:
Hi, there might be some other thing that might be stuck when you are trying to uninstall NVDA or whatever it is.
-
Indeed.  But the way to determine what those "some other things" might be is by analyzing error messages and/or logs.

As a general rule, always, you need to supply the specific error message text and/or codes when you get them.

Saying to a potential assistant, "I got an error message, can you fix it," is akin to telling someone who can't see you and has no idea where you are on the surface of the earth, "I live on land, can you find me."

Specificity is necessary, not optional, when tech solutions are being sought.  That's the point I'm trying to make.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


locked Re: Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

Gene
 

Could the user run the installer and leve the currently installed version in place?  Even if the user should uninstall the current version, from what you say, installing the new version after uninstalling the currently installed version would not mean that anything was lost or very little, if anything.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


locked Re: Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

 

Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

Arlene
 

Hi, there might be some other thing that might be stuck when you are trying to uninstall NVDA or whatever it is.  I had this happen when I tried to uninstall NVDA 2019 when my windows 7 was about to bite the dust. I was getting rid of things on there.  When I tried to uninstall NVDA. There were error messages. Don’t ask me what it was. I’ll make it up. It was something like 8554something something. I told the tec person at the source where I got this ten box. He knew what the errors were. He did fix something in the windows bios or some place.  He thanked me for telling him the error messages.  He did scrub the hard drive and recycled it. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: January 13, 2022 7:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

 

You need to supply error messages.

Failure to install is a completely different thing than failure to upgrade from within.

One thing I always suggest when any "weirdness" is occurring under Windows 8 or later is:  Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8 & 10

If you're still unable to install error messages from Windows would be the next thing an assistant would need to know.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

 


locked Re: Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

Gene
 

I’m not sure if or when this may have been discussed here.  If someone doesn’t want to have to manually set all settings again and install all add-ons and set up all profiles again, it would seem to me that the following should be done.
If there are faster or easier ways to do what I am describing, I hope they will be discussed:
 
Before uninstalling the version you are using and installing the current version, create a portable version of NVDA and tell it to keep everything.  I don’t know what the wording is when you create the portable version.
Then uninstall the installed version and install the current version.  Since you have now fixed the update issue, uninstall the current version and create an installed version from the portable version. Then use the updater to update to the current verssion again.
 
As I understand how this works, you have now updated to the current version and haven’t lost anything from the older version.
 
Gene. 

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:41 PM
Subject: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
We seem to keep having cycles of "the update issue" which is well known, and already solved, popping up again and again.  I am hoping this Admin Notice will help those who might encounter the issue to fix it just from having read this message.  Please file this if you are using NVDA 2021.1 or 2021.2 (or even some earlier version of NVDA) as you will almost assuredly need this information.

The update problem is cause by a certificate issue and a Windows-based certificate.  It is not a problem with NVDA, per se, but something that NVDA is seeking from Windows when trying to update.  This issue is fixed, permanently, with NVDA Version 2023.1.  The current version of NVDA as of this writing is 2021.3.1.

You cannot fix this problem by trying to update/upgrade from within NVDA, as that's the part that's broken.  You MUST download the latest version of NVDA from NVAccess and use that installer.   For NVDA 2021.3.1, the direct download link for the NVDA installer is:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2021.3.1/nvda_2021.3.1.exe 

[As an aside, if you're ever looking for an older version of NVDA, just change the "2021.3.1" in both places in the URL with the version number you want.]

After you have the installer in hand, you can either uninstall the current version and then run the new installer (preferable), or do an install-over install by just running the new installer.  Both have worked in my experience, but the former is the one that ensures you are "clean as a whistle" before going forward.

If, by chance, you really need to be on a version of NVDA that is prior to 2021.3.1, then you can reinstall it afterward, and the issue that was causing the update to stall previously will still be fixed, as it is fixed by the certificate tweaking that the installer for 2021.3.1 does in folders not belonging to NVDA.  You can use the download link given above with the  release number changed to the release you want to get.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


locked Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

 

We seem to keep having cycles of "the update issue" which is well known, and already solved, popping up again and again.  I am hoping this Admin Notice will help those who might encounter the issue to fix it just from having read this message.  Please file this if you are using NVDA 2021.1 or 2021.2 (or even some earlier version of NVDA) as you will almost assuredly need this information.

The update problem is cause by a certificate issue and a Windows-based certificate.  It is not a problem with NVDA, per se, but something that NVDA is seeking from Windows when trying to update.  This issue is fixed, permanently, with NVDA Version 2023.1.  The current version of NVDA as of this writing is 2021.3.1.

You cannot fix this problem by trying to update/upgrade from within NVDA, as that's the part that's broken.  You MUST download the latest version of NVDA from NVAccess and use that installer.   For NVDA 2021.3.1, the direct download link for the NVDA installer is:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2021.3.1/nvda_2021.3.1.exe 

[As an aside, if you're ever looking for an older version of NVDA, just change the "2021.3.1" in both places in the URL with the version number you want.]

After you have the installer in hand, you can either uninstall the current version and then run the new installer (preferable), or do an install-over install by just running the new installer.  Both have worked in my experience, but the former is the one that ensures you are "clean as a whistle" before going forward.

If, by chance, you really need to be on a version of NVDA that is prior to 2021.3.1, then you can reinstall it afterward, and the issue that was causing the update to stall previously will still be fixed, as it is fixed by the certificate tweaking that the installer for 2021.3.1 does in folders not belonging to NVDA.  You can use the download link given above with the  release number changed to the release you want to get.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: update error message

Chris
 

Yes, you will have to download and install the nvda installer manually, it cannot be done through check for updates, once you have updated manually it should update normally from now on

 

 

From: Ame
Sent: 13 January 2022 20:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] update error message

 

Hi all!

 

Just thought I’d see if there’s a new update so I went to the help menu and clicked check for updates.  I got an error.  All it said was “error checking for update.”  Is this a common thing lately?  Is there anything I can do?  This is the first time I’ve ever encountered this issue in my nearly 12 years using NVDA.   

 

Thanks a bunch.  I’ll appreciate any help you can give me.

 


Re: update error message

 

Hi,

The bridge is incomplete, I'm afraid. Please decorate the bridge with your current NVDA version, Windows release, and errors from the log if any.

By the way, I advise against using nvda-project.org in favor of nvaccess.org; in reality, nvda-project.org will redirect you to nvaccess.org.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

 

Hi,

It is a typical text file - one can open the log by pressing NVDA+F1 (although that command is meant for developers, it has also found useful for troubleshooting, too).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

 

Well I have had it where I have people that under do, they can't fix whatever so they give it to a friend to help.

That friend does in fact help, they read all the things on the net including all the adds and loads what looks cool.

Here is the thing.

What looks cool usually isn't necessarily cool.

Or they may load all sorts of things to fix 1 issue.

I had both cases.

The first one ended with a reformat because there was to much dammage to fix in a reasonable time.

The next almost did.

I had the thing sitting on a table cleaning junk and reinstalling security software and stuff.

I've had one repeat user and I have had worse than that though not recently.





On 14/01/2022 8:09 am, mike mcglashon wrote:

Brian quoted:

Being on the remote support end of things with a relatively tech-illiterate to tech-phobic client is no picnic!  I can relate.  But sometimes you just have to give them a push to do what you tell them and it works.  They tend to overthink and worry way too much that, "I can't."  Well, in my extensive experience, in almost all cases, "Yes, you can, and with just a bit of guidance and a smidge of trust."

End quote:

 

Believe me, I am one of those tech illiterate guys who just has to trust what the doc says and do it;

As long as he tells me what buttons to push,

I am good;

But, … I still have to push the buttons to make it do what we want  it to do;

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 01:31 PM, George McCoy wrote:

He'll never get through DISM and SFC.

-
If he can copy and paste, he can get through these.  There's nothing that the end user does but issue the commands and wait.

Being on the remote support end of things with a relatively tech-illiterate to tech-phobic client is no picnic!  I can relate.  But sometimes you just have to give them a push to do what you tell them and it works.  They tend to overthink and worry way too much that, "I can't."  Well, in my extensive experience, in almost all cases, "Yes, you can, and with just a bit of guidance and a smidge of trust."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: for people that don't like ribbon in office, new addon: ribbon explorer

 

Hi all,

I wrote about the below thought briefly on add-ons list but I think it would be helpful to share:

Although I personally believe that it is important to work with the native interface, I also think it is important to let people showcase their skills through an add-on like this; who knows, some people would appreciate this add-on. Looking at the source code level (because that's how I review add-ons), it is one of those rare gems that is worthy of preservation simply because it is well documented at the source code level; plus, it gives a good justification for developers and taught me something to think about for parts of my own add-ons. Apart from license (the add-on is licensed under GNU general public license 3 as opposed to NVDA which is licensed under GPL 2), I think the add-on will be well received, similar to SystrayList add-on (particularly for people who were used to other screen readers).

Cheers,

Joseph


update error message

Ame
 

I didn’t know there was any kind of a fix.  Where can you get the installer for the newest NVDA update.  I looked at nvda-project.org which is where I used to get it.  I’ve never had to go back because it always looks for updates.  Is that where you still go?


Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

George McCoy
 

Thank you very much, Joseph. I will try your suggestions. What is the NVDA log filespec?


George

On 1/13/2022 2:09 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

A few things come to my mind:

  1. User Account Control: usually there is a time limit when it comes to responding to UAC prompt. This happens when you install NVDA, too. If the user does not respond to UAC prompts, Windows will prevent NVDA from being installed and NVDA will report an error to that effect (the actual error is stored in NVDA log). This is a bit complicated if the system is part of a domain and a password is required to respond to UAC prompts. For consumers, responding to UAC is the best solution, but for enterprises, an IT professional should be contacted.
  2. Restarting the computer and transferring NVDA from portable copy to installed copy: this requires that a portable copy of NVDA is stored in an easy to access path (say, documents/NVDA folder). After restarting the computer, run the portable copy of NVDA and see if installation is possible (NVDA menu/Tools/Install). This is the method I personally use when installing NVDA on a new computer.
  3. File in use: sometimes some DLL's used by NVDA is used in other apps, particularly when interacting with 64-bit applications. IN this case, one way to resolve this is logging out and back in, as it then allows apps that are using some NVDA DLL's to terminate. Note that this procedure requires use of Narrator at the login screen, so for convenience, restart the computer.
  4. DISM might help but as a last resort: this assumes that it is more than just NVDA that is stuck.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: update error message

Sarah k Alawami
 

Wasn’t there a fix  for nvda that you had to get manually due to some cert expiring etc? Can you try downloading the installer manually and running it? If this does not make sence, my lunch is talking back at me and it’s wanting me to sleep on the  job today. I hope downloading and running the installer will help.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ame
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 12:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] update error message

 

Hi all!

 

Just thought I’d see if there’s a new update so I went to the help menu and clicked check for updates.  I got an error.  All it said was “error checking for update.”  Is this a common thing lately?  Is there anything I can do?  This is the first time I’ve ever encountered this issue in my nearly 12 years using NVDA.   

 

Thanks a bunch.  I’ll appreciate any help you can give me.


update error message

Ame
 

Hi all!

 

Just thought I’d see if there’s a new update so I went to the help menu and clicked check for updates.  I got an error.  All it said was “error checking for update.”  Is this a common thing lately?  Is there anything I can do?  This is the first time I’ve ever encountered this issue in my nearly 12 years using NVDA.   

 

Thanks a bunch.  I’ll appreciate any help you can give me.


Re: Filling PDF Forms

 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 02:48 PM, Mohib Anwar Rafay wrote:
Generally it can be done by converting the pdf document into MS Word
doc using ABBYY fine reader, it will not disturb its structure and
entries.
-
Just as an FYI, if you have Office 2013 or newer (I think, it might be 2016 or newer) the step with ABBYY Fine Reader is likely unnecessary.  Word is now capable of opening PDF files and auto converting them to Word format when doing so, and then saving them again as PDFs if you so desire.

There are occasional, and usually tiny, format changes but that's characteristic of any conversion process.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 03:09 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
DISM might help but as a last resort: this assumes that it is more than just NVDA that is stuck.
-
While I absolutely agree with the latter, the use of DISM does assume that more than just NVDAmay be stuck, I vehemently disagree with the former.

Neither DISM nor SFC are, or can be, destructive.  I'm not saying anyone has to run them, or even that DISM needs to be run first, but not destructive "system scan and correct" utilities should never be feared nor considered "a last resort" simply because the worst they can do is nothing.  Often they do fix things you may have had no idea were wrong (and which, I'll admit, may not fix the issue that triggered you to run them in the first place).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

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