nvda@nvda.groups.io

Re: Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

Gene

#91725

I’m not sure if or when this may have been discussed here. If someone doesn’t want to have to manually set all settings again and install all add-ons and set up all profiles again, it would seem to me that the following should be done.

If there are faster or easier ways to do what I am describing, I hope they will be discussed:

Before uninstalling the version you are using and installing the current version, create a portable version of NVDA and tell it to keep everything. I don’t know what the wording is when you create the portable version.

Then uninstall the installed version and install the current version. Since you have now fixed the update issue, uninstall the current version and create an installed version from the portable version. Then use the updater to update to the current verssion again.

As I understand how this works, you have now updated to the current version and haven’t lost anything from the older version.

Gene.

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:41 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

We seem to keep having cycles of "the update issue" which is well known, and already solved, popping up again and again. I am hoping this Admin Notice will help those who might encounter the issue to fix it just from having read this message. Please file this if you are using NVDA 2021.1 or 2021.2 (or even some earlier version of NVDA) as you will almost assuredly need this information.

The update problem is cause by a certificate issue and a Windows-based certificate. It is not a problem with NVDA, per se, but something that NVDA is seeking from Windows when trying to update. This issue is fixed, permanently, with NVDA Version 2023.1. The current version of NVDA as of this writing is 2021.3.1.

You cannot fix this problem by trying to update/upgrade from within NVDA, as that's the part that's broken. You MUST download the latest version of NVDA from NVAccess and use that installer. For NVDA 2021.3.1, the direct download link for the NVDA installer is:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2021.3.1/nvda_2021.3.1.exe

[As an aside, if you're ever looking for an older version of NVDA, just change the "2021.3.1" in both places in the URL with the version number you want.]

After you have the installer in hand, you can either uninstall the current version and then run the new installer (preferable), or do an install-over install by just running the new installer. Both have worked in my experience, but the former is the one that ensures you are "clean as a whistle" before going forward.

If, by chance, you really need to be on a version of NVDA that is prior to 2021.3.1, then you can reinstall it afterward, and the issue that was causing the update to stall previously will still be fixed, as it is fixed by the certificate tweaking that the installer for 2021.3.1 does in folders not belonging to NVDA. You can use the download link given above with the release number changed to the release you want to get.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

Brian Vogel

#91724

We seem to keep having cycles of "the update issue" which is well known, and already solved, popping up again and again. I am hoping this Admin Notice will help those who might encounter the issue to fix it just from having read this message. Please file this if you are using NVDA 2021.1 or 2021.2 (or even some earlier version of NVDA) as you will almost assuredly need this information.

The update problem is cause by a certificate issue and a Windows-based certificate. It is not a problem with NVDA, per se, but something that NVDA is seeking from Windows when trying to update. This issue is fixed, permanently, with NVDA Version 2023.1. The current version of NVDA as of this writing is 2021.3.1.

You cannot fix this problem by trying to update/upgrade from within NVDA, as that's the part that's broken. You MUST download the latest version of NVDA from NVAccess and use that installer. For NVDA 2021.3.1, the direct download link for the NVDA installer is:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2021.3.1/nvda_2021.3.1.exe

[As an aside, if you're ever looking for an older version of NVDA, just change the "2021.3.1" in both places in the URL with the version number you want.]

After you have the installer in hand, you can either uninstall the current version and then run the new installer (preferable), or do an install-over install by just running the new installer. Both have worked in my experience, but the former is the one that ensures you are "clean as a whistle" before going forward.

If, by chance, you really need to be on a version of NVDA that is prior to 2021.3.1, then you can reinstall it afterward, and the issue that was causing the update to stall previously will still be fixed, as it is fixed by the certificate tweaking that the installer for 2021.3.1 does in folders not belonging to NVDA. You can use the download link given above with the release number changed to the release you want to get.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: update error message

Chris

#91723

Yes, you will have to download and install the nvda installer manually, it cannot be done through check for updates, once you have updated manually it should update normally from now on

Show quoted text

From: Ame
Sent: 13 January 2022 20:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] update error message

Hi all!

Just thought I’d see if there’s a new update so I went to the help menu and clicked check for updates. I got an error. All it said was “error checking for update.” Is this a common thing lately? Is there anything I can do? This is the first time I’ve ever encountered this issue in my nearly 12 years using NVDA.

Thanks a bunch. I’ll appreciate any help you can give me.

Re: update error message

Joseph Lee

#91722

Hi,

The bridge is incomplete, I'm afraid. Please decorate the bridge with your current NVDA version, Windows release, and errors from the log if any.

By the way, I advise against using nvda-project.org in favor of nvaccess.org; in reality, nvda-project.org will redirect you to nvaccess.org.

Cheers,

Joseph

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

Joseph Lee

#91721

Hi,

It is a typical text file - one can open the log by pressing NVDA+F1 (although that command is meant for developers, it has also found useful for troubleshooting, too).

Cheers,

Joseph

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

Shaun Everiss

#91720

Well I have had it where I have people that under do, they can't fix whatever so they give it to a friend to help.

That friend does in fact help, they read all the things on the net including all the adds and loads what looks cool.

Here is the thing.

What looks cool usually isn't necessarily cool.

Or they may load all sorts of things to fix 1 issue.

I had both cases.

The first one ended with a reformat because there was to much dammage to fix in a reasonable time.

The next almost did.

I had the thing sitting on a table cleaning junk and reinstalling security software and stuff.

I've had one repeat user and I have had worse than that though not recently.

Show quoted text

On 14/01/2022 8:09 am, mike mcglashon wrote:

Brian quoted:

Being on the remote support end of things with a relatively tech-illiterate to tech-phobic client is no picnic! I can relate. But sometimes you just have to give them a push to do what you tell them and it works. They tend to overthink and worry way too much that, "I can't." Well, in my extensive experience, in almost all cases, "Yes, you can, and with just a bit of guidance and a smidge of trust."

End quote:

Believe me, I am one of those tech illiterate guys who just has to trust what the doc says and do it;

As long as he tells me what buttons to push,

I am good;

But, … I still have to push the buttons to make it do what we want it to do;

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 01:31 PM, George McCoy wrote:

He'll never get through DISM and SFC.

-
If he can copy and paste, he can get through these. There's nothing that the end user does but issue the commands and wait.

Being on the remote support end of things with a relatively tech-illiterate to tech-phobic client is no picnic! I can relate. But sometimes you just have to give them a push to do what you tell them and it works. They tend to overthink and worry way too much that, "I can't." Well, in my extensive experience, in almost all cases, "Yes, you can, and with just a bit of guidance and a smidge of trust."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: for people that don't like ribbon in office, new addon: ribbon explorer

Joseph Lee

#91719

Hi all,

I wrote about the below thought briefly on add-ons list but I think it would be helpful to share:

Although I personally believe that it is important to work with the native interface, I also think it is important to let people showcase their skills through an add-on like this; who knows, some people would appreciate this add-on. Looking at the source code level (because that's how I review add-ons), it is one of those rare gems that is worthy of preservation simply because it is well documented at the source code level; plus, it gives a good justification for developers and taught me something to think about for parts of my own add-ons. Apart from license (the add-on is licensed under GNU general public license 3 as opposed to NVDA which is licensed under GPL 2), I think the add-on will be well received, similar to SystrayList add-on (particularly for people who were used to other screen readers).

Cheers,

Joseph

update error message

Ame

#91718

I didn’t know there was any kind of a fix. Where can you get the installer for the newest NVDA update. I looked at nvda-project.org which is where I used to get it. I’ve never had to go back because it always looks for updates. Is that where you still go?

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

George McCoy

#91717

Thank you very much, Joseph. I will try your suggestions. What is the NVDA log filespec?

George

Show quoted text

On 1/13/2022 2:09 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

A few things come to my mind:

User Account Control: usually there is a time limit when it comes to responding to UAC prompt. This happens when you install NVDA, too. If the user does not respond to UAC prompts, Windows will prevent NVDA from being installed and NVDA will report an error to that effect (the actual error is stored in NVDA log). This is a bit complicated if the system is part of a domain and a password is required to respond to UAC prompts. For consumers, responding to UAC is the best solution, but for enterprises, an IT professional should be contacted.

Restarting the computer and transferring NVDA from portable copy to installed copy: this requires that a portable copy of NVDA is stored in an easy to access path (say, documents/NVDA folder). After restarting the computer, run the portable copy of NVDA and see if installation is possible (NVDA menu/Tools/Install). This is the method I personally use when installing NVDA on a new computer.

File in use: sometimes some DLL's used by NVDA is used in other apps, particularly when interacting with 64-bit applications. IN this case, one way to resolve this is logging out and back in, as it then allows apps that are using some NVDA DLL's to terminate. Note that this procedure requires use of Narrator at the login screen, so for convenience, restart the computer.

DISM might help but as a last resort: this assumes that it is more than just NVDA that is stuck.

Cheers,

Joseph

Re: update error message

Sarah k Alawami

#91716

Wasn’t there a fix for nvda that you had to get manually due to some cert expiring etc? Can you try downloading the installer manually and running it? If this does not make sence, my lunch is talking back at me and it’s wanting me to sleep on the job today. I hope downloading and running the installer will help.

Show quoted text

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ame
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 12:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] update error message

Hi all!

Just thought I’d see if there’s a new update so I went to the help menu and clicked check for updates. I got an error. All it said was “error checking for update.” Is this a common thing lately? Is there anything I can do? This is the first time I’ve ever encountered this issue in my nearly 12 years using NVDA.

Thanks a bunch. I’ll appreciate any help you can give me.

update error message

Ame

#91715

Hi all!

Just thought I’d see if there’s a new update so I went to the help menu and clicked check for updates. I got an error. All it said was “error checking for update.” Is this a common thing lately? Is there anything I can do? This is the first time I’ve ever encountered this issue in my nearly 12 years using NVDA.

Thanks a bunch. I’ll appreciate any help you can give me.

Re: Filling PDF Forms

Brian Vogel

#91714

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 02:48 PM, Mohib Anwar Rafay wrote:

Generally it can be done by converting the pdf document into MS Word
doc using ABBYY fine reader, it will not disturb its structure and
entries.

-
Just as an FYI, if you have Office 2013 or newer (I think, it might be 2016 or newer) the step with ABBYY Fine Reader is likely unnecessary. Word is now capable of opening PDF files and auto converting them to Word format when doing so, and then saving them again as PDFs if you so desire.

There are occasional, and usually tiny, format changes but that's characteristic of any conversion process.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

Brian Vogel

#91713

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 03:09 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

DISM might help but as a last resort: this assumes that it is more than just NVDA that is stuck.

-
While I absolutely agree with the latter, the use of DISM does assume that more than just NVDAmay be stuck, I vehemently disagree with the former.

Neither DISM nor SFC are, or can be, destructive. I'm not saying anyone has to run them, or even that DISM needs to be run first, but not destructive "system scan and correct" utilities should never be feared nor considered "a last resort" simply because the worst they can do is nothing. Often they do fix things you may have had no idea were wrong (and which, I'll admit, may not fix the issue that triggered you to run them in the first place).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

Brian Vogel

#91712

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 02:09 PM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Please advise as you like.

-
What's to advise? You'll do as you're told or you won't get my help, even when you're paying for it!!

[By the way, for those confused by the above:

1. I know that "Please advise as you like" is a part of Mike's standard signature.
2. Mike does precisely what he reports, and does as asked, even if he asks questions, and intelligent ones, before doing so.
3. We have worked together on a paid professional basis, so he knows that the above is meant as an inside joke.

Now you all know.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

Joseph Lee

#91711

Hi all,

A few things come to my mind:

User Account Control: usually there is a time limit when it comes to responding to UAC prompt. This happens when you install NVDA, too. If the user does not respond to UAC prompts, Windows will prevent NVDA from being installed and NVDA will report an error to that effect (the actual error is stored in NVDA log). This is a bit complicated if the system is part of a domain and a password is required to respond to UAC prompts. For consumers, responding to UAC is the best solution, but for enterprises, an IT professional should be contacted.
Restarting the computer and transferring NVDA from portable copy to installed copy: this requires that a portable copy of NVDA is stored in an easy to access path (say, documents/NVDA folder). After restarting the computer, run the portable copy of NVDA and see if installation is possible (NVDA menu/Tools/Install). This is the method I personally use when installing NVDA on a new computer.
File in use: sometimes some DLL's used by NVDA is used in other apps, particularly when interacting with 64-bit applications. IN this case, one way to resolve this is logging out and back in, as it then allows apps that are using some NVDA DLL's to terminate. Note that this procedure requires use of Narrator at the login screen, so for convenience, restart the computer.
DISM might help but as a last resort: this assumes that it is more than just NVDA that is stuck.

Cheers,

Joseph

Re: Filling PDF Forms

Mohib Anwar Rafay

#91710

Generally it can be done by converting the pdf document into MS Word
doc using ABBYY fine reader, it will not disturb its structure and
entries. After filling the info, it can again be saved as pdf
document.

Show quoted text

On 1/13/22, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
No I just heard text. But everyone else and my agent were writing this
in edge and saving it as a pdf etc. I can't show you guys as this was
for a private thign we were doing, and I'm not really aloud to
distribute those, besides this was sometime last year.



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5 star rating on our podcast using your podcast directory's rating
system.

On 12 Jan 2022, at 8:26, Gene wrote:

Before the agent did this, when you moved through the form, was there
any indication that they were fillable or did you just hear text, as
though the intent was to print the document?

Gene

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Filling PDF Forms

I had one such case. The aira agent was able to click into the form
fields and I was able to type into them, all this while using edge
btw, I really don’t know how they did it.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Filling PDF Forms



If I understand your question, it is how you fill out a PDF document
with no form fields.  I would think in such a case, the expectation is
that you would print it and return a paper copy or perhaps fax it.



If you did OCR a PDF file and then fill out answers by inserting text
in  the document, I don’t know if that would be accepted or if some
other way would be required.  Again, it may be expected that the
document be printed and returned.



I don’t know if a PDF document can have form fields that aren’t
seen by a screen-reader, using an appropriate program that should show
them.  If that occurs, then the document isn’t accessible.  You
would thhen need sighted assistance or you would need to work
something out with the person or entity that sent you the form.



Gene

-----Original Message-----

I don’t know if there are cases in which a PDF document wouldn’t
show fillable fields if they are present.  If that

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Bhavya shah

Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 9:31 AM

To: nvda

Subject: [nvda] Filling PDF Forms



Dear all,

One of the tasks I use sighted assistance for but suspect can be done
independently is filling out PDF forms. Properly tagged PDFs which
have editable form fields right in the document, of course, aren't a
problem. Inversely, I understand that scanned, image-based PDF forms
would be a challenge to read let alone fill. However, the kinds of
documents I am referring to right now are generally accessible PDFs
which can either (i) be printed out and physically filled or (ii) be
edited directly and digitally filled. What are methods and software to
edit such PDFs independently using NVDA without accidentally altering
its structure or formatting?

I would truly appreciate your inputs and suggestions on this.

Best Regards,
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/

-- 
Mohib Anwar Rafay

Phone: 9999996464, +919 555 555 765

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

mike mcglashon

#91709

Brian quoted:

Being on the remote support end of things with a relatively tech-illiterate to tech-phobic client is no picnic! I can relate. But sometimes you just have to give them a push to do what you tell them and it works. They tend to overthink and worry way too much that, "I can't." Well, in my extensive experience, in almost all cases, "Yes, you can, and with just a bit of guidance and a smidge of trust."

End quote:

Believe me, I am one of those tech illiterate guys who just has to trust what the doc says and do it;

As long as he tells me what buttons to push,

I am good;

But, … I still have to push the buttons to make it do what we want it to do;

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

Show quoted text

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 01:31 PM, George McCoy wrote:

He'll never get through DISM and SFC.

-
If he can copy and paste, he can get through these. There's nothing that the end user does but issue the commands and wait.

Being on the remote support end of things with a relatively tech-illiterate to tech-phobic client is no picnic! I can relate. But sometimes you just have to give them a push to do what you tell them and it works. They tend to overthink and worry way too much that, "I can't." Well, in my extensive experience, in almost all cases, "Yes, you can, and with just a bit of guidance and a smidge of trust."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

Brian Vogel

#91708

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 01:31 PM, George McCoy wrote:

He'll never get through DISM and SFC.

-
If he can copy and paste, he can get through these. There's nothing that the end user does but issue the commands and wait.

Being on the remote support end of things with a relatively tech-illiterate to tech-phobic client is no picnic! I can relate. But sometimes you just have to give them a push to do what you tell them and it works. They tend to overthink and worry way too much that, "I can't." Well, in my extensive experience, in almost all cases, "Yes, you can, and with just a bit of guidance and a smidge of trust."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: Can't uninstall NVDA 2021.2 from Windows 10 21h1

George McCoy

#91707

The trouble is, I'm not onsite so I can't see the error message and the owner is not at all competant when things get sticky.

He'll never get through DISM and SFC. I got a portable copy to work so I might be able to deploy the utilities through that.

Thanks for your help, though.

George

Show quoted text

On 1/13/2022 9:42 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

You need to supply error messages.

Failure to install is a completely different thing than failure to upgrade from within.

One thing I always suggest when any "weirdness" is occurring under Windows 8 or later is:  Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8 & 10

If you're still unable to install error messages from Windows would be the next thing an assistant would need to know.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

Re: for people that don't like ribbon in office, new addon: ribbon explorer

Brian Vogel

#91706

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 01:07 PM, Gene wrote:

They [split buttons] are used in ribbons but they are used elsewhere as well.

-
Just want to reinforce this point. Split buttons, while used in ribbons, are also used all over the place and have been around for a very long time.

It's worth reading Gene's tutorial just for the split button part if you feel unfamiliar or uncomfortable with split buttons.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)