Date   

Re: enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

That’s odd indeed. So when you go into input help (NVDA+number row 1) and touch the touchscreen, do you hear NVDA announce touch gestures?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi, I’m using windows 10 1709. All of the gestures are not working, even I think the addon is enabled, but its gestures are disabled

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

Can you tell me what’s not working and what version of Windows you’ve got?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 2:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi all. I’ve recently downloaded enhance touch gesture addon from https://addons.nvda-project.org/, but its not working, how to activate it? using NVDA 2017.3

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Tyler Wood
 

You wrote:

At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

 

That’s because the commercial product would fix it in double time and is why it would make itself worth that insane price.

In the workplace, if my screen reader crashed for mission critical things and, to be honest, simple things like outlook, with new versions of NVDA only being released every 90 days if even that, is that something I can live with? Whereas jaws may have it fixed in a number of days because they have the financial resources. something to think about.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

 

From: erik burggraaf
Sent: November 10, 2017 11:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

On the other hand, nvda was the first to support Microsoft Edge. Nvda has introduced substantial new features and support for modern programs before Jaws or other screen readers in the market. It's unfortunate that outlook support isn't where it needs to be yet, but I don't think that's indicative that the product is not ready for professional use.

This gets back to that terrible situation of people advocating for use of multiple screen readers.  It's an astonishingly terrible practice, but how can you blame people if they have the resources?  The fact that multiple screen readers are better at different things, is a sign of poor design, and fragmentation of the accessibility process.  In the new paradigm, developers should be forced to adhere to accessibility standards, so that screen readers who that conform to accessibility standards have everything they need to interface with programs and systems excessively. The fact that things are still so fragmented is bad for us in the long run.

At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

On November 10, 2017 10:47:51 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: enhance touch gestures not working

abdul muhamin
 

Hi, I’m using windows 10 1709. All of the gestures are not working, even I think the addon is enabled, but its gestures are disabled

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

Can you tell me what’s not working and what version of Windows you’ve got?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 2:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi all. I’ve recently downloaded enhance touch gesture addon from https://addons.nvda-project.org/, but its not working, how to activate it? using NVDA 2017.3

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Eric,

 

But Outlook has proved the reverse in my case.

 

FS fixed the problem in a very timely manner.

 

I also come back to the fact that there are no serious addons for NVDA for the workplace that I know of.  There are no accounting addons for example like Sage or Quickbooks.

 

Yes, NVDA was first and is the best with Edge, even though JAWS has poorly implemented Edge support, but unfortunately browsing the web, is not the only work activity that people do.

 

Even in my job and even if I were not an access tech provider, but merely a product reseller, I couldn’t use NVDA 24- in my job, I have to have multiple screen readers to get my job done.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

On the other hand, nvda was the first to support Microsoft Edge. Nvda has introduced substantial new features and support for modern programs before Jaws or other screen readers in the market. It's unfortunate that outlook support isn't where it needs to be yet, but I don't think that's indicative that the product is not ready for professional use.

This gets back to that terrible situation of people advocating for use of multiple screen readers.  It's an astonishingly terrible practice, but how can you blame people if they have the resources?  The fact that multiple screen readers are better at different things, is a sign of poor design, and fragmentation of the accessibility process.  In the new paradigm, developers should be forced to adhere to accessibility standards, so that screen readers who that conform to accessibility standards have everything they need to interface with programs and systems excessively. The fact that things are still so fragmented is bad for us in the long run.

At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

On November 10, 2017 10:47:51 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

This won’t be an issue on higher end computers.

Take an intel atom tablet (z3740 for instance). It’s very, very noticeable when going between folders. This is with add ons both enabled and disabled.

I’d be more than happy to share a recording later today if it helps. If I can help in any way eliminate this I’m more than willing.

As far as my main desktop goes, it’s just as quick as anything else – though jaws might beat it by the tiniest of margins, it’s nothing truly spectacular.

 

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: November 10, 2017 11:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

Don’t tell me this is a repeat of what has become a tug of war between UIA and NVDA…

As much as I am impressed with how far UI Automation has come, I’m still skeptical that we’ll see a version of UIA that’ll satisfy all parties. This is going to be important as more universal apps are created and more Office features using UIA, with NVDA thinking about using UIA in more places. I too cannot duplicate sluggishness in File Explorer (I’ve got Windows 10), but I’ll keep an eye on that (there is another issue that has to do with UIA appearing to not respond, but that has to do with one or more programs spiking CPU usage such as certain tasks in GoldWave).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Joseph,

 

As far as Windows Explorer is concerned, I can’t duplicate this sluggishness exactly, but I can say that the list is rendered quite a bit quicker in JAWS.

 

Simply press Windows-E, and on my computer it takes about half a second for JAWS to read the list.  It takes NVDA about two seconds.  But there the sluggishness if tyler wants to call it that, ends for me.  So I think it may be that NVDA is slower when it comes to updating lists.

 

I am guessing that if I went into a large directory, with hundreds of files, JAWS would beat NVDA by quite a margin.

 

This is with addons both enabled and disabled, it doesn’t seem to make a difference.  I am using ESpeak as well.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 16:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

Okay, we need a more “colorful picture” please: synthesizer, whether it happens with NVDA in safe mode (add-ons disabled) and what not.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 8:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Is currently super, super sluggish in windows explorer in windows 10.

I’m truly baffled as to why I’m the only one seeing this or taking notice. Switching to JFW there is such a difference it’s hard to explain, especially on lower end computers with atom processors and even lower end core I series.

I’d have thought by this time a bug report would have been issued. I’m not about to do it if nobody else is noticing NVDA’s sluggishness – even though me and a few other people I know are – maybe it’s just us being impatient?

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and office 2016

Steve Nutt
 

Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.

 

I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.

 

So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email.  All was fine.  Then I switched to a folder, and Crash!  Outlook Has Stopped Working.

 

I don’t call that fixed, do you?

 

Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?

 

Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference?  Oh wait, they are paid for programs.

 

In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon.  Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.

 

Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done.  I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before.  How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?

 

It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.

 

My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.

 

So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader?  I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.

 

Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts.  Most of the addons are for consumer products.

 

I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:01
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi,

It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.

 

I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Mary,

 

Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013.  NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better.  I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016.  The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).

 

If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:

Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net, and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

On the other hand, nvda was the first to support Microsoft Edge. Nvda has introduced substantial new features and support for modern programs before Jaws or other screen readers in the market. It's unfortunate that outlook support isn't where it needs to be yet, but I don't think that's indicative that the product is not ready for professional use.

This gets back to that terrible situation of people advocating for use of multiple screen readers.  It's an astonishingly terrible practice, but how can you blame people if they have the resources?  The fact that multiple screen readers are better at different things, is a sign of poor design, and fragmentation of the accessibility process.  In the new paradigm, developers should be forced to adhere to accessibility standards, so that screen readers who that conform to accessibility standards have everything they need to interface with programs and systems excessively. The fact that things are still so fragmented is bad for us in the long run.

At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

On November 10, 2017 10:47:51 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

But....if the IT department of whatever organisation is installing the software ... they are getting it, compiled already and executable, from the official source. They can see the code if they want, but who's going to install a modified version on their network?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: November 10, 2017 10:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi,

I would have thought the security aspect is obvious. Since it is open source, anyone has access to the code, and anyone can alter it. So I can understand workplace concerns.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: 09 November 2017 06:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

Don’t tell me this is a repeat of what has become a tug of war between UIA and NVDA…

As much as I am impressed with how far UI Automation has come, I’m still skeptical that we’ll see a version of UIA that’ll satisfy all parties. This is going to be important as more universal apps are created and more Office features using UIA, with NVDA thinking about using UIA in more places. I too cannot duplicate sluggishness in File Explorer (I’ve got Windows 10), but I’ll keep an eye on that (there is another issue that has to do with UIA appearing to not respond, but that has to do with one or more programs spiking CPU usage such as certain tasks in GoldWave).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Joseph,

 

As far as Windows Explorer is concerned, I can’t duplicate this sluggishness exactly, but I can say that the list is rendered quite a bit quicker in JAWS.

 

Simply press Windows-E, and on my computer it takes about half a second for JAWS to read the list.  It takes NVDA about two seconds.  But there the sluggishness if tyler wants to call it that, ends for me.  So I think it may be that NVDA is slower when it comes to updating lists.

 

I am guessing that if I went into a large directory, with hundreds of files, JAWS would beat NVDA by quite a margin.

 

This is with addons both enabled and disabled, it doesn’t seem to make a difference.  I am using ESpeak as well.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 16:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

Okay, we need a more “colorful picture” please: synthesizer, whether it happens with NVDA in safe mode (add-ons disabled) and what not.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 8:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Is currently super, super sluggish in windows explorer in windows 10.

I’m truly baffled as to why I’m the only one seeing this or taking notice. Switching to JFW there is such a difference it’s hard to explain, especially on lower end computers with atom processors and even lower end core I series.

I’d have thought by this time a bug report would have been issued. I’m not about to do it if nobody else is noticing NVDA’s sluggishness – even though me and a few other people I know are – maybe it’s just us being impatient?

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Joseph,

 

As far as Windows Explorer is concerned, I can’t duplicate this sluggishness exactly, but I can say that the list is rendered quite a bit quicker in JAWS.

 

Simply press Windows-E, and on my computer it takes about half a second for JAWS to read the list.  It takes NVDA about two seconds.  But there the sluggishness if tyler wants to call it that, ends for me.  So I think it may be that NVDA is slower when it comes to updating lists.

 

I am guessing that if I went into a large directory, with hundreds of files, JAWS would beat NVDA by quite a margin.

 

This is with addons both enabled and disabled, it doesn’t seem to make a difference.  I am using ESpeak as well.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 16:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

Okay, we need a more “colorful picture” please: synthesizer, whether it happens with NVDA in safe mode (add-ons disabled) and what not.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 8:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Is currently super, super sluggish in windows explorer in windows 10.

I’m truly baffled as to why I’m the only one seeing this or taking notice. Switching to JFW there is such a difference it’s hard to explain, especially on lower end computers with atom processors and even lower end core I series.

I’d have thought by this time a bug report would have been issued. I’m not about to do it if nobody else is noticing NVDA’s sluggishness – even though me and a few other people I know are – maybe it’s just us being impatient?

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Eric,

I would tend to agree with you, but I think it is the perception that open
source is less secure that will always hold it back.

I also submit that large orgs don't use such things as Firefox either.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: 10 November 2017 16:55
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Steve, anyone can alter the code of an open source project, true. a what
I fail to understand is, how is this an inherent ecurity concern? The
altered code must be installed in order to do what you author it to do. You
can blow up the code five ways from Sunday, but if you are installing
official builds, no one will ever see your damaged code. In theory, I
suppose someone could hack the update server, place a damaged update into
the update queue, and roll it out to other computers. I have to say though,
I think that's a very very miniscule risk.

Administrators of public computer systems generally lock things down, so
that users cannot get access to the program files folder, the windows
folder, and other critical system functions. Users can not simply walk up
and install anything they want, regardless of whether it is open source or
not. If your systems are secure, and the Distribution Systems for the
software are secure, and the policies you operate under are secure, then
regardless of whether the software is open source or not, the entire
procedure should be secure.

If you are a foolish administrator, allowing users to install things
willy-nilly on public computers, then there is a very high risk of that
someone will go to virusladengames.com, and download a bunch of crap to the
computer. I would consider this a much greater risk, then securely
installing open source software to provide accessibility.

Unless I am greatly missing something, I submit that installing code from an
unknown source is a security risk, but the innate ability to modify code is
not.



On November 10, 2017 10:42:26 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi,

I would have thought the security aspect is obvious. Since it is open
source, anyone has access to the code, and anyone can alter it. So I can
understand workplace concerns.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya
shah
Sent: 09 November 2017 06:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of
the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this
assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has
the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to
substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security
vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above
questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss
such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could
give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
7506221750


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

I think it’s just us wanting to get the job done in a timely matter.

 

NVDA to me is the best ever on the web, but it really doesn’t cut it in the workplace, especially in Office land, and more especially with outlook 2017, as I have said.  I’m surprised this Outlook crashing has gone on so long, if NVAccess expect to get into the workplace.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 10 November 2017 16:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Is currently super, super sluggish in windows explorer in windows 10.

I’m truly baffled as to why I’m the only one seeing this or taking notice. Switching to JFW there is such a difference it’s hard to explain, especially on lower end computers with atom processors and even lower end core I series.

I’d have thought by this time a bug report would have been issued. I’m not about to do it if nobody else is noticing NVDA’s sluggishness – even though me and a few other people I know are – maybe it’s just us being impatient?

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi,

It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.

 

I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Mary,

 

Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013.  NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better.  I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016.  The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).

 

If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:

Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net, and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

Okay, we need a more “colorful picture” please: synthesizer, whether it happens with NVDA in safe mode (add-ons disabled) and what not.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 8:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Is currently super, super sluggish in windows explorer in windows 10.

I’m truly baffled as to why I’m the only one seeing this or taking notice. Switching to JFW there is such a difference it’s hard to explain, especially on lower end computers with atom processors and even lower end core I series.

I’d have thought by this time a bug report would have been issued. I’m not about to do it if nobody else is noticing NVDA’s sluggishness – even though me and a few other people I know are – maybe it’s just us being impatient?

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Hi Steve, anyone can alter the code of an open source project, true. a what I fail to understand is, how is this an inherent ecurity concern? The altered code must be installed in order to do what you author it to do. You can blow up the code five ways from Sunday, but if you are installing official builds, no one will ever see your damaged code. In theory, I suppose someone could hack the update server, place a damaged update into the update queue, and roll it out to other computers. I have to say though, I think that's a very very miniscule risk.

Administrators of public computer systems generally lock things down, so that users cannot get access to the program files folder, the windows folder, and other critical system functions. Users can not simply walk up and install anything they want, regardless of whether it is open source or not. If your systems are secure, and the Distribution Systems for the software are secure, and the policies you operate under are secure, then regardless of whether the software is open source or not, the entire procedure should be secure.

If you are a foolish administrator, allowing users to install things willy-nilly on public computers, then there is a very high risk of that someone will go to virusladengames.com, and download a bunch of crap to the computer. I would consider this a much greater risk, then securely installing open source software to provide accessibility.

Unless I am greatly missing something, I submit that installing code from an unknown source is a security risk, but the innate ability to modify code is not.

On November 10, 2017 10:42:26 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi,

I would have thought the security aspect is obvious. Since it is open source, anyone has access to the code, and anyone can alter it. So I can understand workplace concerns.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: 09 November 2017 06:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: How to get native SAPI 5 mobile voices in Win10?

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Ketan,


I just did this a couple of days ago. when my laptop came back from the
shop, my friend set my language for English United Kingdom, and I had to
change it to English United states. Hopefully I get this right, what you
have to do is to go to settings, and select time and language. Once
there, press tab once to move to the list of options, they are time,
region and language, and speech. By default, time is selected. Arrow
down once to the region and language option and press enter. From this
point, press tab twice to the add a language button and hit space on it.
When you hit space on this button, you will be prompted to type the name
of the language you want in the search edit box. If you're unsure of how
it's spelled, no worries, press tab once and there will be a list box
with loads of choices for languages in it.  Using the arrow keys, select
the choice you want and hit space on it. Press enter again and you will
be presented with a list of the different dialects that apply to that
particular language.  For example, in the English language, you have 16
dialects to choose from.  By default mine is set for English United
States so only the remaining 15 show up. If you know what dialect you
want you can type it in the search box, or tab once and select it from
the list.  Just for the fun of it, I added the English UK voices to my
desktop, to help me with composing this message.  Once you've selected
your dialect, you are brought back to the main time and language
screen.  If you are satisfied with your changes, you can hit alt-f4 to
close things up.

Hope this helps and is not to overwhelming.


Tony

On 11/10/2017 12:05 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:
Hi friends,

I have Windows 10 home edition and when I change my synthesiser I am
only getting David and Xira voices under SAPI 5 but I have been told
that there are more native voices available with british accent as
well. I am using Windows 10 1703 build. Please do guide me.


With best wishes,

Ketan


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Tyler Wood
 

Is currently super, super sluggish in windows explorer in windows 10.

I’m truly baffled as to why I’m the only one seeing this or taking notice. Switching to JFW there is such a difference it’s hard to explain, especially on lower end computers with atom processors and even lower end core I series.

I’d have thought by this time a bug report would have been issued. I’m not about to do it if nobody else is noticing NVDA’s sluggishness – even though me and a few other people I know are – maybe it’s just us being impatient?

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: November 10, 2017 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: nvda and skype

 

I think Skype 8 won't support XP; Microsoft ended XP support more than 3 years ago; NVDA 2017.4 will not support XP; even Jaws 16 and newer no longer supports XP.
Given that Windows 7 still has a few more years of extended support, Microsoft might continue to support the new Skype on Windows 7, but I'm not totally sure if that will be the case when the final version is released.
But what I think what needs to be done is that someone in the blindness community who is testing the preview needs to alert Microsoft about accessibility issues and needs to tell Microsoft how important Skype is for blind and visually impaired people who relied on screen readers.


Re: nvda and skype

 

how about supporting of skype8 for windows xp?
does skype 8 support xp or not?
i use version 7.37 without major problems now.

On 11/10/17, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@...> wrote:
To be honest, I have accessibility issues on the new Skype 8 on iOS.
I don't know why Microsoft chose to sacrifice accessibility when developing
Skype 8.
But as of now I do not know whether Skype 8 is still in the preview stage
for Windows; and whether it's even compatible with Windows 7.
If you're on Windows 10 you can use the built-in Skype app; NVDA works with
it just fine; in fact I find the Windows 10 Skype app easier to navigate
than the Skype desktop app.
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: nvda and skype

 

To be honest, I have accessibility issues on the new Skype 8 on iOS.
I don't know why Microsoft chose to sacrifice accessibility when developing Skype 8.
But as of now I do not know whether Skype 8 is still in the preview stage for Windows; and whether it's even compatible with Windows 7.
If you're on Windows 10 you can use the built-in Skype app; NVDA works with it just fine; in fact I find the Windows 10 Skype app easier to navigate than the Skype desktop app.