Date   

Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Steve Nutt
 

Yes, that’s how I understand it Jean, it literally reads left to right, top to bottom.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 November 2021 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’m not sure what you are referring to, but bhy ordering, do you mean that, as I understand it, to a sighted person, links run down the left of the page, there is text in the middle, and more links on the right?  The screen-reader view is as follows, again as it was explained to me:

the links a sighted person sees on the left side of the page are at the top in screen-reader order.  Then the text follows and below the text, the links that, to a sighted person run down the right side of the page are shown at the bottom of the screen-reader representation.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 9:51 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 04:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

If the highlight cursor worked well in NVDA, it wouldn’t have been a problem.

-
What version of NVDA are you using?   I haven't had issues with Focus Highlight being inaccurate as far as following focus on screen in a long time.  I have a couple of machines where, for some reason, focus highlight refuses to load if they've been up and running for a while, but I've reported that, and I can get it to work if I restart the computer and try it again.

It's funny, but even though I know and conceptually understand the virtual cursor, because sight is one of my primary ways of "following along" for anything that typically has a visual component it remains a nightmare, and mostly because I have never been able to understand how "the ordering choices" that get made in loading the buffer are made.  They certainly do not follow anything like "the visual flow" of a page in many cases, which makes it worse.

And even though someone who's blind has absolutely no use for focus highlight, the fact that screen readers are quite frequently going to be in use in visually mixed environments, like schools and workplaces and, sometimes, even homes, having that option on by default, rather than off, makes a lot more sense to me.  The individual I was helping yesterday is someone I'd helped remotely before, and I clearly turned on focus highlight when we last worked together, and it was still on.  It made it so much easier for me to "hit the ground running" as far as assisting him rather than having to go back into settings and turning it on again before I started.  It also seems to have very minimal impact on the screen reader responsiveness.

I know that a screen reader has a blind person as its target user.  At the same time, individuals who are blind do not exist in isolation from the sighted world, and anything that makes it easier for each side of screen reading technology to have a better joint understanding of what's going on is a plus, in my opinion.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Brian,

 

It was 2021.2 Beta 3.

 

I think where there are non-standard controls, such as are read as just text, and you press enter to expand them, the highlight cursor doesn’t follow them.

 

I can’t think of a publicly available example now, but if I can find one, I’ll ping it over, as I’d be interested in you, as a sighted person, to test it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 18 November 2021 15:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 04:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

If the highlight cursor worked well in NVDA, it wouldn’t have been a problem.

-
What version of NVDA are you using?   I haven't had issues with Focus Highlight being inaccurate as far as following focus on screen in a long time.  I have a couple of machines where, for some reason, focus highlight refuses to load if they've been up and running for a while, but I've reported that, and I can get it to work if I restart the computer and try it again.

It's funny, but even though I know and conceptually understand the virtual cursor, because sight is one of my primary ways of "following along" for anything that typically has a visual component it remains a nightmare, and mostly because I have never been able to understand how "the ordering choices" that get made in loading the buffer are made.  They certainly do not follow anything like "the visual flow" of a page in many cases, which makes it worse.

And even though someone who's blind has absolutely no use for focus highlight, the fact that screen readers are quite frequently going to be in use in visually mixed environments, like schools and workplaces and, sometimes, even homes, having that option on by default, rather than off, makes a lot more sense to me.  The individual I was helping yesterday is someone I'd helped remotely before, and I clearly turned on focus highlight when we last worked together, and it was still on.  It made it so much easier for me to "hit the ground running" as far as assisting him rather than having to go back into settings and turning it on again before I started.  It also seems to have very minimal impact on the screen reader responsiveness.

I know that a screen reader has a blind person as its target user.  At the same time, individuals who are blind do not exist in isolation from the sighted world, and anything that makes it easier for each side of screen reading technology to have a better joint understanding of what's going on is a plus, in my opinion.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


In-Process is out

Quentin Christensen
 

It's a bumper issue of In-Process this week!  Featuring all the news on NVDA 2021.3 Beta 2 of course, plus a look at languages, our interview with Bhavya Shah, reading text boxes in Word AND selecting multiple objects in PowerPoint!  Check it out here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-19th-november-2021/

Regards

Quentin.


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Icon that appears on selecting a table in Word

Quentin Christensen
 

When you hover over a table or the focus is in a table, there is an icon at the top left which is square with the move (four way arrows) symbol.  You can click on this and drag to move the table.  I don't think there is an equivalent keyboard command, aside from selecting, cutting and pasting.

If you left click on this icon, it brings up a kind of floating toolbar, where you can select some of the font and paragraph options, some options for deleting or inserting, as well as adding a comment or opening table styles.

While the order is different, you can get to most of these options from the context menu, and the rest (standard font and paragraph options) from the ribbon.

There is a plain white square at the bottom right corner of the table.  Clicking and dragging it resizes the table, which you can otherwise do from the Table Layout ribbon - alt, then j, then l.  If you click on this without dragging, it opens the same floating toolbar as described for the other icon.

Regards

Quentin

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:33 AM Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:
Dear all,

I am currently using NVDA 2021.3 Beta 2 and Word for Microsoft 365 on
a Windows 10 machine. From a sighted person I am working with, I have
learnt that when I select an entire table (by going to browse mode and
setting start and end markers), a certain icon shows up which contains
several options. This icon gives options different from that which I
get on pressing the Applications key. If you have followed my question
so far, do you know of a way to access and click this icon
independently?

I would greatly appreciate any assistance.

Best Regards,
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Icon that appears on selecting a table in Word

Bhavya shah
 

Dear all,

I am currently using NVDA 2021.3 Beta 2 and Word for Microsoft 365 on
a Windows 10 machine. From a sighted person I am working with, I have
learnt that when I select an entire table (by going to browse mode and
setting start and end markers), a certain icon shows up which contains
several options. This icon gives options different from that which I
get on pressing the Applications key. If you have followed my question
so far, do you know of a way to access and click this icon
independently?

I would greatly appreciate any assistance.

Best Regards,
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/


Re: Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

Pranav Lal
 

Hi Russ and Ben,

 

My experience is similar to Ben’s. I use teams daily at work and no one can hear my screen reader. I do however find that it is easier to work with headphones on so in meetings where I know I have to take notes, I keep my headphones on. These are ordinary headphones that is, they do not have a sound card and plug into the 3.5MM headphone jack on the laptop. I say easier to work because what happens is that the speaking of NVDA brings down the volume of the screen reader and disrupts my voice if I am speaking.

 

The separate soundcard approach will also work nicely, you set NVDA to use one soundcard and set teams to use the other.

 

Pranav


Re: Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías
 

Hi all.

Some drivers of audio have an option of Noise Reduction. When this option is enabled, using the internal speakers and internal microphone is possible that NVDA and the audio in your pc don’t listen in the meeting. In my laptop, I can enable or disable it in the application HP Audio Center, installed by the driver and Windows automatically.

So, for this reason you can use internal speakers and the integrated microphone, and the participants only listen your voice without NVDA, and is necessary share the sound of the pc for show the audio of your system in these cases.

Regards.

 


Re: Question about updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 with Windows 10 21H2

 

Hmmph.

Well I did an update to supernova with current november update and there wasn't an issue.

Now win10 21h2 has gone well the enablement package its still using most of the same things.

I am unsure, however its been given to microsoft to fix.

There may be a c release this month maybe with the fix or an out of band.

We will recieve though 1 more update before christmas so microsoft says and I am sure they will have this fixed by then.

Its obviously not as urgent as we are lead to beleave because microsoft hasn't recorded the issue and there are no releases yet but even when I test dolphin stuff not everything is loaded on the board for testing or fixing but the issues are noted and fixed so who knows.

Just because an issue is not recorded doesn't mean its not going to get fixed.

And unlike jaws nvda doesn't rely on to many services to keep itself running.



On 19/11/2021 8:49 am, Louise Pfau wrote:
Hi.  I've got a couple of concerns about installing the update to NVDA 2021.3 when it's released because I've just installed the update to Windows 10, 21H2.  Has NVDA had the same problem that JAWS has with regard to doing overinstalls or repairs in conflict with the recent update to Windows 10, 21H2?  If I'm not mistaken, updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 would be considered an overinstall.  I don't usually install NVDA updates as a portable copy, but install them over the previous version, unless something goes off, at which point I'll do a clean install using the most recent executable.  I know there was a message on the Windows list about the conflict between JAWS and the Windows 10, 21H2 update that Microsoft is aware of.  If NVDA users haven't had a problem, is there a chance that Microsoft will fix the problem before the stable version of NVDA 2021.3 is released?

Thanks,

Louise


Re: Question about updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 with Windows 10 21H2

Quentin Christensen
 

I'm not aware of any issue with updating programs (I am still on 21H1, Build 19043.1348, so can't comment first hand).  Can you point me to a post or page with more info on the problem please?

Quentin.

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 7:54 AM Chris via groups.io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Its a jaws issue as far as I know

 

I have installed the last two nvda beta with no issues

 

 

 

 

From: Louise Pfau
Sent: 18 November 2021 19:49
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Question about updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 with Windows 10 21H2

 

Hi.  I've got a couple of concerns about installing the update to NVDA 2021.3 when it's released because I've just installed the update to Windows 10, 21H2.  Has NVDA had the same problem that JAWS has with regard to doing overinstalls or repairs in conflict with the recent update to Windows 10, 21H2?  If I'm not mistaken, updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 would be considered an overinstall.  I don't usually install NVDA updates as a portable copy, but install them over the previous version, unless something goes off, at which point I'll do a clean install using the most recent executable.  I know there was a message on the Windows list about the conflict between JAWS and the Windows 10, 21H2 update that Microsoft is aware of.  If NVDA users haven't had a problem, is there a chance that Microsoft will fix the problem before the stable version of NVDA 2021.3 is released?

Thanks,

Louise

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Well they just updated it and it takes less time now so maybe there was a bug.



On 18/11/2021 10:40 pm, Steve Nutt wrote:

That’s long, three to five seconds.

 

It just took about a second and a bit with Chrome to load https://www.comproom.co.uk.

 

But it probably depends on your up/download speed.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 17 November 2021 16:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah, for me firefox runs fast on this machine, takes about 3-5 seconds to load and that’s it. Maybe it’s page dependent, even screen reader dependent.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 12:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I find it considerably slower than Chrome on many websites. But I have no scientific evidence to back it up.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 November 2021 16:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’d be interested in whether others find it slow.  This may just be my experience, but Firefox seems to me to be much faster than it used to be.  I’ve started using it a lot more and I’m considering using it as my main browser.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

It’s just a shame that Firefox is so slow compared with Chrome, certainly on all my machines it is.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Sackrider
Sent: 16 November 2021 00:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

        I have an example of whear fire fox will and nvda will see somthng but chrome brousers don't.  The audio of the lions magazine in both edge and chrome there is no down it all button but in fire fox there is a down it all button.  I am not surprised about other things that fire fox sees that chrome brousers don't this is why I say that for the blind chrome based brousers are kind of usless junk and this is the reason that I use internet explorer for as long as I did as it was not a chrome based brouser.  I have windows 11 and there is no more internet explorer so I had to find a nonchrome based brouser and thats why i am using fire fox as my default brouser.

Brian Sackrider

On 11/15/2021 5:12 PM, Gene wrote:

I am increasingly finding cases where Firefox either sees things or does things that Chrome doesn’t when used with NVDA.  I don’t use JAWS and my demo is far too old to evaluate whether the same things occur.  But I think the question of whether Chrome-based browsers are working properly with sites in terms of accessibility should be systematically addressed.

 

Here are two examples:

First is this article from The New York Times;.

If you are at the top of the page and press s to move by separator, you will immediately move to cards giving background information on the story.

In Firefox, you see, at the end of the card, a button for previous card, unavailable since you are on the first card, and a button for next card.

Activating this button works.  It moves you to the next card.

To easily get to this card in a proper position to read it, press page up, then s for separator.

The previous and next card buttons both work correctly for this card and, I assume, for all other cards.

 

I tested with Chrome and Brave and neither of these Chrome-based browsers saw either button. I could read the first card below the separator but no buttons are displayed.


I’ve recently been looking up material on occasion using the Encyclopedia Britannica online.  When reading with Firefox, the page being read automatically shows new material as you move down it.  Firefox shows this new material when it appears.  Chrome-based browsers don’t. 

This article is an example:

 

Search from the top of the page for the word nervous.  If you down arrow in Firefox, the text continues after some items, perhaps three or four.  Chrome-based browsers don’t load new material at least not accessibly to screen-readers.

 

Chrome-based browsers don’t see comments on Youtube pages where videos are streamed.  Firefox does.  Because the page changes as you move down it, you have to move down the page to see the comments.  You can’t just search for the word comment to get to the section.

 

I’ll add that all these comments are for my specific machine but I expect they will be generally experienced.  Verification, however, is necessary.

 

Are these problems with Chrome, with NVDA, or both?  I suspect that these problems are not improper implementation of accessibility.  Those questions, however, would require technically knowledgeable investigation to be resolved.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Since Firefox sees the checkboxes, I don’t know that its valid to assume what the problem is and that it is improper design.  Also, there may be cases where you will hear explanatory text that accompanies a structure read if you tab into the structure rather than move to it in some other way.  I haven’t compared Chrome-based and not Chrome-based browsers in these cases but again, is this improper design or just the complexity of design?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah well, I'm not trying to be obscene here, but it's because the web
designers didn't use checkboxes that expose themselves, or, perhaps to
put it just a bit more succinctly, expose their state. & it is a royal
pita, & it's not unique to NVDA, though having said thus, sometimes
Jaws actually allows labeling of these graphics, whereas NVDA doesn't.
& it's not an issue specific to Chrome, either. It's actually called a
"clickable element" as opposed to a checkbox. Sighted folks generally
cant distinguish these from standard checkboxes, but they sure create
problems for us.

On 11/15/21, Tyler Zahnke mailto:programmer651@... wrote:
> Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
> Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me"
> checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you
> press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't
> tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and
> inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a
> memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read
> some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got
> to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their
> site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices
> claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA
> users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same
> site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember
> me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it,
> NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This
> was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as
> accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and
> screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said
> "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on
> them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations
> on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome.
> Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the
> checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the
> website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the
> checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like
> checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So
> what's the deal with checkboxes?
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 04:08 PM, Jackie wrote:
not to mention that sometimes we need
assistance, & the sighted user trying to help us has absolutely no
idea what's going on in the virtual buffer or whatever it is that it's
called.
-
Amen!!   And the main reason I'm repeating this is that, particulary in a business setting, getting things done most quickly and efficiently often involves asking for help from someone else, even if only for a few moments, and that's regardless of one's visual status.

Since the assistant is virtually certain to be sighted in most instances, just the law of probabilities in the population at large, making accessibility software as "accessible to the sighted on first encounter" as is reasonably possible is not a goal that should be ignored lightly.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

Gene
 

I would think that this lack of screen-reader audio being heard by others in such programs, including Zoom, is standard, unless shared, as has been said. 
 
If a sound card supports a what you hear option, you may be able to send all audio your sound card plays to a meeting without sharing it but then the question becomes, do these meeting programs even allow that setting to be used?  They may automatically force the meeting program to use the microphone as source, no matter what is set as the source in general.
 
If they don’t, setting the microphone as the source in sound card settings should solve the problem.
 
In short, the internal onboard soundcard may work just fine though I would advise using headphones with the internal audio to keep the microphone from picking up audio from the computer speakers.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings
 

Hi Ben

This is great news thanks for your reply!

I'll give it a try :-)

Russ


On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 2:53 PM <benmoxey@...> wrote:

Hi Russ

 

I use Teams daily at work on Windows 10 laptops without headphones and the screen reader audio cannot be heard by participants, unless I choose to share it. Of course, test this with somebody first to confirm, but this shouldn’t be an issue. Note that I have the Teams meeting audio and screen reader coming through the laptop speakers and am using the laptop’s built-in mic.

 

Regarding Zoom on Windows 10, as you mentioned, your screen reader audio will be heard if you’re not using headphones. However, interestingly, I ran a Zoom meeting on my Windows 11 machine recently without headphones (with the intention of participants hearing the screen reader) and the speech could not be heard until I shared it. Has anyone else tested this scenario on Windows 11 to confirm? I’m wondering if this is a change in how Windows 11 handles audio.

 

All the best.

 

Ben

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Russell James
Sent: Friday, 19 November 2021 2:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

 

Greetings,

 

I'm looking for best practices for using NVDA with MS Teams meetings.

 

In the past I have often attended MS Teams meetings from my Android device.

Without the video which makes it similar to a phone conference call.

On that platform the screen reader is not heard by the meeting.

 

The few times I have joined a ZOOM meeting from Windows10 while using NVDA the meeting could hear my screen reader till I turned it off...

I'd like to avoid situations like that...

 

Now I'm interested in best ways to attend/present during MS Teams meetings on Windows10 while using NVDA.

I'm specifically interested in knowing if there are ways to use NVDA without the meeting hearing the screen reader audio.

There are probably helpful settings and audio accessories to support this.

 

Fortunately, there is a lot of accessibility documentation for MS Teams on multiple platforms.

Unfortunately, this makes it very time consuming to find these specific details...

 

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

 

Russ

 

 

 


Re: Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

Russell James
 

Hi Ben

This is great news thanks for your reply!

I'll give it a try :-)

Russ


On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 2:53 PM <benmoxey@...> wrote:

Hi Russ

 

I use Teams daily at work on Windows 10 laptops without headphones and the screen reader audio cannot be heard by participants, unless I choose to share it. Of course, test this with somebody first to confirm, but this shouldn’t be an issue. Note that I have the Teams meeting audio and screen reader coming through the laptop speakers and am using the laptop’s built-in mic.

 

Regarding Zoom on Windows 10, as you mentioned, your screen reader audio will be heard if you’re not using headphones. However, interestingly, I ran a Zoom meeting on my Windows 11 machine recently without headphones (with the intention of participants hearing the screen reader) and the speech could not be heard until I shared it. Has anyone else tested this scenario on Windows 11 to confirm? I’m wondering if this is a change in how Windows 11 handles audio.

 

All the best.

 

Ben

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Russell James
Sent: Friday, 19 November 2021 2:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

 

Greetings,

 

I'm looking for best practices for using NVDA with MS Teams meetings.

 

In the past I have often attended MS Teams meetings from my Android device.

Without the video which makes it similar to a phone conference call.

On that platform the screen reader is not heard by the meeting.

 

The few times I have joined a ZOOM meeting from Windows10 while using NVDA the meeting could hear my screen reader till I turned it off...

I'd like to avoid situations like that...

 

Now I'm interested in best ways to attend/present during MS Teams meetings on Windows10 while using NVDA.

I'm specifically interested in knowing if there are ways to use NVDA without the meeting hearing the screen reader audio.

There are probably helpful settings and audio accessories to support this.

 

Fortunately, there is a lot of accessibility documentation for MS Teams on multiple platforms.

Unfortunately, this makes it very time consuming to find these specific details...

 

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

 

Russ

 

 

 


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Gene
 

Which reply?  Since you don’t quote or refer to previous material, there is no way to know.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome
 
Hi.  I think this reply was sent to the wrong thread.

Louise


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Jackie
 

Brian, while it's true that screen readers by default target blind
users, many w/dyslexia also find them helpful. It's thus an advantage,
whenever the experience would permit, if the screen reader can make
things usable by all. & there are also those like yourself who need
that sort of facility, not to mention that sometimes we need
assistance, & the sighted user trying to help us has absolutely no
idea what's going on in the virtual buffer or whatever it is that it's
called.

On 11/18/21, Louise Pfau <louise.pfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  I think this reply was sent to the wrong thread.

Louise





--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Question about updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 with Windows 10 21H2

Chris
 

Its a jaws issue as far as I know

 

I have installed the last two nvda beta with no issues

 

 

 

 

From: Louise Pfau
Sent: 18 November 2021 19:49
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Question about updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 with Windows 10 21H2

 

Hi.  I've got a couple of concerns about installing the update to NVDA 2021.3 when it's released because I've just installed the update to Windows 10, 21H2.  Has NVDA had the same problem that JAWS has with regard to doing overinstalls or repairs in conflict with the recent update to Windows 10, 21H2?  If I'm not mistaken, updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 would be considered an overinstall.  I don't usually install NVDA updates as a portable copy, but install them over the previous version, unless something goes off, at which point I'll do a clean install using the most recent executable.  I know there was a message on the Windows list about the conflict between JAWS and the Windows 10, 21H2 update that Microsoft is aware of.  If NVDA users haven't had a problem, is there a chance that Microsoft will fix the problem before the stable version of NVDA 2021.3 is released?

Thanks,

Louise

 


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I think this reply was sent to the wrong thread.

Louise


Re: recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Ah I'll take a look. I don't use google docs, but only forms and sheets.

Happy Thursday.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Greg Wocher
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

Hello,
Braille mode is in Google Docs itself. It can be found under the
accessibility menu in Docs.

Greg Wocher


On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Is braille mode in google docs itself? Or is this a setting in NVDA?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 12:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

Hello,
when Braille mode is turned off, Google Docs will micromanage what the
screen reader announces, leaving Braille out of the equation. With Braille
mode turned on, text is presented in an accessible rich edit control, and
the screen reader is in charge so it will be able to Braille. In combination
with NVDA I strongly recommend turning on Braille mode as the experience
will be more what you are used to even when no Braille display is present.
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 18. Nov. 2021 um 08:39 Uhr schrieb Sally Kiebdaj
<fiddle.pup@...>:

Hello,

Well, turning on Braille mode does seem to fix it. I never would have
thought of that since I'm not using braille and it wasn't necessary in the
past.

This is just speculation, but do you think something changed recently in
the way google docs does accessibility to necessitate braille mode with some
screen readers? And are the subset of screen reader users who use google
docs just more likely to be using braille anyway and not notice the change?

Thank you for pointing me to the solution!

Warmly,
Sally

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:36 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...>
wrote:

Hello,

I am not sure what the issue you're experiencing is, but I highly
recommend turning on Braille mode, at this point, as it will generally
provide a better accessibility experience, even if you are not using a
Braille display.

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 2:26 PM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...>
wrote:

All docs and sheets regardless of owner or privileges and yes,
accessibility is turned on. I am only using the screen reader, not braille.

Thanks,
Sally


On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 17:12 Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

I can't say that I have. Does this happen with all sheets, or just a
specific sheet? I'm assuming that you have accessibility mode on? Are you
using Braille mode, or just screen reader mode?

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:13 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...>
wrote:

Hi there,

I'm running Google Chrome Version 96.0.4664.45 (Official Build)
(64-bit) and NVDA 2021.2.

Pressing escape doesn't help, sorry I didn't mention I had already
tried that.

NVDA announces "application, group" which I don't remember it doing
before. However, the focus, according to my sighted partner, is in the
spreadsheet cells like usual.

Has anyone else been seeing something like this?

Thanks!
Sally

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:01 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...>
wrote:

Hello Sally,

Which browser are you using where this difficulty occurs? Which
version of NVDA?

Next time you open a doc, after the doc has loaded, and you can't
seem to access it, try pressing esc and let us know what happens.

Thanks.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:30 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...>
wrote:

Hello,

I can no longer read google docs or sheets on my work laptop and
noticed that I need to press Tab a few extra times on my personal laptop to
focus and read a doc or sheet. However, two weeks ago, I was using google
docs and sheets with no problems on either machine. After the page fully
loaded and I made sure browse mode was off, my focus was already in the doc
or sheet content and I was able to read.

Has anyone experienced new problems reading the contents of google
docs or sheets in the last 10 days?

Does anyone know about recent G Suite updates that might be causing
this?

If not, are there known NVDA settings problems that might be
causing this?

I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting this so would welcome all
suggestions!

Thanks,
Sally


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader
for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader
for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!










Re: Question about updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 with Windows 10 21H2

Gene
 

I don’t use the updater but if I did, in case there were a problem with the update, I would make sure I still had the previous version available with all the settings and add-ons that were in it.  Before updating, I would make a portable version of the installed version and choose the option to copy the current user configuration.  I could then update the installed version knowing that if I want to, I can uninstall it and create an installed version using the portable version of the unupdated version. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 1:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Question about updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 with Windows 10 21H2
 
Hi.  I've got a couple of concerns about installing the update to NVDA 2021.3 when it's released because I've just installed the update to Windows 10, 21H2.  Has NVDA had the same problem that JAWS has with regard to doing overinstalls or repairs in conflict with the recent update to Windows 10, 21H2?  If I'm not mistaken, updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 would be considered an overinstall.  I don't usually install NVDA updates as a portable copy, but install them over the previous version, unless something goes off, at which point I'll do a clean install using the most recent executable.  I know there was a message on the Windows list about the conflict between JAWS and the Windows 10, 21H2 update that Microsoft is aware of.  If NVDA users haven't had a problem, is there a chance that Microsoft will fix the problem before the stable version of NVDA 2021.3 is released?

Thanks,

Louise


Re: Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

benmoxey@...
 

Hi Russ

 

I use Teams daily at work on Windows 10 laptops without headphones and the screen reader audio cannot be heard by participants, unless I choose to share it. Of course, test this with somebody first to confirm, but this shouldn’t be an issue. Note that I have the Teams meeting audio and screen reader coming through the laptop speakers and am using the laptop’s built-in mic.

 

Regarding Zoom on Windows 10, as you mentioned, your screen reader audio will be heard if you’re not using headphones. However, interestingly, I ran a Zoom meeting on my Windows 11 machine recently without headphones (with the intention of participants hearing the screen reader) and the speech could not be heard until I shared it. Has anyone else tested this scenario on Windows 11 to confirm? I’m wondering if this is a change in how Windows 11 handles audio.

 

All the best.

 

Ben

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Russell James
Sent: Friday, 19 November 2021 2:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows10 - NVDA - MS Teams - Meetings

 

Greetings,

 

I'm looking for best practices for using NVDA with MS Teams meetings.

 

In the past I have often attended MS Teams meetings from my Android device.

Without the video which makes it similar to a phone conference call.

On that platform the screen reader is not heard by the meeting.

 

The few times I have joined a ZOOM meeting from Windows10 while using NVDA the meeting could hear my screen reader till I turned it off...

I'd like to avoid situations like that...

 

Now I'm interested in best ways to attend/present during MS Teams meetings on Windows10 while using NVDA.

I'm specifically interested in knowing if there are ways to use NVDA without the meeting hearing the screen reader audio.

There are probably helpful settings and audio accessories to support this.

 

Fortunately, there is a lot of accessibility documentation for MS Teams on multiple platforms.

Unfortunately, this makes it very time consuming to find these specific details...

 

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

 

Russ

 

 

 

7101 - 7120 of 96817