On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 04:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

If the highlight cursor worked well in NVDA, it wouldn’t have been a problem.

-
What version of NVDA are you using?   I haven't had issues with Focus Highlight being inaccurate as far as following focus on screen in a long time.  I have a couple of machines where, for some reason, focus highlight refuses to load if they've been up and running for a while, but I've reported that, and I can get it to work if I restart the computer and try it again.

It's funny, but even though I know and conceptually understand the virtual cursor, because sight is one of my primary ways of "following along" for anything that typically has a visual component it remains a nightmare, and mostly because I have never been able to understand how "the ordering choices" that get made in loading the buffer are made.  They certainly do not follow anything like "the visual flow" of a page in many cases, which makes it worse.

And even though someone who's blind has absolutely no use for focus highlight, the fact that screen readers are quite frequently going to be in use in visually mixed environments, like schools and workplaces and, sometimes, even homes, having that option on by default, rather than off, makes a lot more sense to me.  The individual I was helping yesterday is someone I'd helped remotely before, and I clearly turned on focus highlight when we last worked together, and it was still on.  It made it so much easier for me to "hit the ground running" as far as assisting him rather than having to go back into settings and turning it on again before I started.  It also seems to have very minimal impact on the screen reader responsiveness.

I know that a screen reader has a blind person as its target user.  At the same time, individuals who are blind do not exist in isolation from the sighted world, and anything that makes it easier for each side of screen reading technology to have a better joint understanding of what's going on is a plus, in my opinion.
 
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

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Hi.  I've got a couple of concerns about installing the update to NVDA 2021.3 when it's released because I've just installed the update to Windows 10, 21H2.  Has NVDA had the same problem that JAWS has with regard to doing overinstalls or repairs in conflict with the recent update to Windows 10, 21H2?  If I'm not mistaken, updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 would be considered an overinstall.  I don't usually install NVDA updates as a portable copy, but install them over the previous version, unless something goes off, at which point I'll do a clean install using the most recent executable.  I know there was a message on the Windows list about the conflict between JAWS and the Windows 10, 21H2 update that Microsoft is aware of.  If NVDA users haven't had a problem, is there a chance that Microsoft will fix the problem before the stable version of NVDA 2021.3 is released?

Thanks,

Louise

That’s long, three to five seconds.

 

It just took about a second and a bit with Chrome to load https://www.comproom.co.uk.

 

But it probably depends on your up/download speed.

 

All the best

Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 17 November 2021 16:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah, for me firefox runs fast on this machine, takes about 3-5 seconds to load and that’s it. Maybe it’s page dependent, even screen reader dependent.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 12:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I find it considerably slower than Chrome on many websites. But I have no scientific evidence to back it up.

 

All the best

Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 November 2021 16:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’d be interested in whether others find it slow.  This may just be my experience, but Firefox seems to me to be much faster than it used to be.  I’ve started using it a lot more and I’m considering using it as my main browser.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 3:32 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

It’s just a shame that Firefox is so slow compared with Chrome, certainly on all my machines it is.

 

All the best

Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Sackrider
Sent: 16 November 2021 00:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

        I have an example of whear fire fox will and nvda will see somthng but chrome brousers don't.  The audio of the lions magazine in both edge and chrome there is no down it all button but in fire fox there is a down it all button.  I am not surprised about other things that fire fox sees that chrome brousers don't this is why I say that for the blind chrome based brousers are kind of usless junk and this is the reason that I use internet explorer for as long as I did as it was not a chrome based brouser.  I have windows 11 and there is no more internet explorer so I had to find a nonchrome based brouser and thats why i am using fire fox as my default brouser.

Brian Sackrider

On 11/15/2021 5:12 PM, Gene wrote:

I am increasingly finding cases where Firefox either sees things or does things that Chrome doesn’t when used with NVDA.  I don’t use JAWS and my demo is far too old to evaluate whether the same things occur.  But I think the question of whether Chrome-based browsers are working properly with sites in terms of accessibility should be systematically addressed.

 

Here are two examples:

First is this article from The New York Times;.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/us/rittenhouse-trial-closing-arguments.html

If you are at the top of the page and press s to move by separator, you will immediately move to cards giving background information on the story.

In Firefox, you see, at the end of the card, a button for previous card, unavailable since you are on the first card, and a button for next card.

Activating this button works.  It moves you to the next card.

To easily get to this card in a proper position to read it, press page up, then s for separator.

The previous and next card buttons both work correctly for this card and, I assume, for all other cards.

 

I tested with Chrome and Brave and neither of these Chrome-based browsers saw either button. I could read the first card below the separator but no buttons are displayed.

I’ve recently been looking up material on occasion using the Encyclopedia Britannica online.  When reading with Firefox, the page being read automatically shows new material as you move down it.  Firefox shows this new material when it appears.  Chrome-based browsers don’t. 

This article is an example:

https://www.britannica.com/art/television-in-the-United-States/The-late-Golden-Age

 

Search from the top of the page for the word nervous.  If you down arrow in Firefox, the text continues after some items, perhaps three or four.  Chrome-based browsers don’t load new material at least not accessibly to screen-readers.

 

Chrome-based browsers don’t see comments on Youtube pages where videos are streamed.  Firefox does.  Because the page changes as you move down it, you have to move down the page to see the comments.  You can’t just search for the word comment to get to the section.

 

I’ll add that all these comments are for my specific machine but I expect they will be generally experienced.  Verification, however, is necessary.

 

Are these problems with Chrome, with NVDA, or both?  I suspect that these problems are not improper implementation of accessibility.  Those questions, however, would require technically knowledgeable investigation to be resolved.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:00 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Since Firefox sees the checkboxes, I don’t know that its valid to assume what the problem is and that it is improper design.  Also, there may be cases where you will hear explanatory text that accompanies a structure read if you tab into the structure rather than move to it in some other way.  I haven’t compared Chrome-based and not Chrome-based browsers in these cases but again, is this improper design or just the complexity of design?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:55 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah well, I'm not trying to be obscene here, but it's because the web
designers didn't use checkboxes that expose themselves, or, perhaps to
put it just a bit more succinctly, expose their state. & it is a royal
pita, & it's not unique to NVDA, though having said thus, sometimes
Jaws actually allows labeling of these graphics, whereas NVDA doesn't.
& it's not an issue specific to Chrome, either. It's actually called a
"clickable element" as opposed to a checkbox. Sighted folks generally
cant distinguish these from standard checkboxes, but they sure create
problems for us.

On 11/15/21, Tyler Zahnke mailto:programmer651@... wrote:
> Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
> Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me"
> checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you
> press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't
> tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and
> inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a
> memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read
> some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got
> to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their
> site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices
> claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA
> users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same
> site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember
> me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it,
> NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This
> was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as
> accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and
> screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said
> "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on
> them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations
> on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome.
> Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the
> checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the
> website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the
> checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like
> checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So
> what's the deal with checkboxes?
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Hi.  I think this reply was sent to the wrong thread.

Louise

Hi.  I've got a couple of concerns about installing the update to NVDA 2021.3 when it's released because I've just installed the update to Windows 10, 21H2.  Has NVDA had the same problem that JAWS has with regard to doing overinstalls or repairs in conflict with the recent update to Windows 10, 21H2?  If I'm not mistaken, updating from NVDA 2021.2 to 2021.3 would be considered an overinstall.  I don't usually install NVDA updates as a portable copy, but install them over the previous version, unless something goes off, at which point I'll do a clean install using the most recent executable.  I know there was a message on the Windows list about the conflict between JAWS and the Windows 10, 21H2 update that Microsoft is aware of.  If NVDA users haven't had a problem, is there a chance that Microsoft will fix the problem before the stable version of NVDA 2021.3 is released?

Thanks,

Louise

On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Is braille mode in google docs itself? Or is this a setting in NVDA?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 12:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

Hello,
when Braille mode is turned off, Google Docs will micromanage what the

Best,
Felix

Am Do., 18. Nov. 2021 um 08:39 Uhr schrieb Sally Kiebdaj

Hello,

Well, turning on Braille mode does seem to fix it. I never would have

This is just speculation, but do you think something changed recently in

Thank you for pointing me to the solution!

Warmly,
Sally

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:36 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...>

Hello,

I am not sure what the issue you're experiencing is, but I highly

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 2:26 PM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...>

All docs and sheets regardless of owner or privileges and yes,

Thanks,
Sally


On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 17:12 Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

I can't say that I have. Does this happen with all sheets, or just a

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:13 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...>

Hi there,

I'm running Google Chrome Version 96.0.4664.45 (Official Build)

Pressing escape doesn't help, sorry I didn't mention I had already

NVDA announces "application, group" which I don't remember it doing

Has anyone else been seeing something like this?

Thanks!
Sally

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:01 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...>

Hello Sally,

Which browser are you using where this difficulty occurs? Which

Next time you open a doc, after the doc has loaded, and you can't

Thanks.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:30 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...>

Hello,

I can no longer read google docs or sheets on my work laptop and

Has anyone experienced new problems reading the contents of google

Does anyone know about recent G Suite updates that might be causing

If not, are there known NVDA settings problems that might be

I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting this so would welcome all

Thanks,
Sally

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Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology

Thank you, and have a great day!

--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader
for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!

--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader
for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!