[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Explain "recipe for cooking crashes"]

Hi Dan,

Can you give us the recipe or two to "cook these crashes" please a.k.a. exact steps to reproduce if possible?

P.S. Poetry is fun, but be considerate when dealing with app crashes.

Cheers,

Joseph

Luke,


I believe I did read your message, but I guess I didn't get the fact that one could simply type the header's designated number and get where you wished to go until Sarah pointed it out just a few minutes ago.


The primary reason for changing the subject line was not to annoy you or anybody else, but to let those, like you know that I did have something wrong, and although I didn't even then get it perfectly right, at least I was making progress.


No offense meant, your input was greatly appreciated,


And hey, I'm pushing the big 7'o here, so I'm going to have a senior brain fart every now and then.


Have a nice day and once again, thanks for your helpful advice.


Sincerely,


Larry



On 5/9/2022 3:39 PM, Luke Davis wrote:

Larry Higgins wrote:

With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.

Larry, as I explained to you yesterday, and Gene explained in more detail, this is just wrong.

You press the header number, or H, not both.

H is the general header command. It takes you to whatever the next header is.

The number commands, one through six, take you to the next header at that specific level.

If you use both, you will jump two headers.

You didn't knowledge either of my messages yesterday on this header topic (before you changed the subject line, which is very annoying, please don't do that), so I don't know if you read either of them, or the one Gene sent. Hopefully you read this one.

Luke

.

Lol. Use foo bar or vlc for yore listening. I like it in loo of win amp any time. Plus you can config the keys to fit what you want to do.

A slight correction on your findings. You do not do 2 h at all or even h 2. just do 2 in browse mode and you will be taken to the heading level 2 on that page and shift 2 to go back.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Higgins
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 6:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Header issue with Bookshare and BARD pages, my bad

Good and patient listers,


I'm quite sure now that I have figured out where my issue with headers stems from, and it is in the different way in which Window-Eyes handled headers on Web pages.


With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.


To confuse things just a little, with NVDA, and JFW, if you type the 2
before the letter H, you are actually able to skip over headers, or in
the case of BARD and Bookshare, titles.


Anyway, my bad.


Now before anybody takes the opportunity to launch into me about still
making use of WE, if only someone would take it upon themselves to right
an equally convenient and sophisticated addon for Winamp, I would just
give it up altogether, at this point, most likely for NVDA. But until
someone does, I'll just have to keep using WE whenever I want to do any
serious music listening, which in my case is quite often <smile>.


I think my next project might be to learn how to use emojies.


Once again, thanks kindly for your assistance.


Larry

Larry Higgins wrote:

With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.

Larry, as I explained to you yesterday, and Gene explained in more detail, this is just wrong.

You press the header number, or H, not both.

H is the general header command. It takes you to whatever the next header is.

The number commands, one through six, take you to the next header at that specific level.

If you use both, you will jump two headers.

You didn't knowledge either of my messages yesterday on this header topic (before you changed the subject line, which is very annoying, please don't do that), so I don't know if you read either of them, or the one Gene sent. Hopefully you read this one.

Luke

I doubt they are more convenient than Winamp.  I continue to use Winamp because it is so convenient.  I use other players for specific cases where they do something better or do something Winamp doesn't do, but for general use, I doubt anything is more convbenient and I don't know if another player is as convenient.

Gene

On 5/9/2022 3:00 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Lol. That’s because some of us are using players that are IMHO way better than and more up to date than winamp.  I did mention some in my last message so won’t again. And all of them are accessible without add ons.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Higgins
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 9:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Header issue with Bookshare and BARD pages, my bad

 

Do you happen to have a link handy for that utility?

 

I downloaded a utility of Carlos's a while ago, but don't now know just where i managed to put it, much less where I got it.

 

Believe me, if I can find alternative ways of accomplishing similar results and aren't more trouble than they are worth, I'll use them.

 

 Maybe I'll send off my suggestions to the developer of the addon when I find the time, it certainly wouldn't hurt. I just can't understand how anybody who has made use of Winamp and a screen reader wouldn't have ask about these gaps in access by now, but maybe I'll just have to be the first to do so.

 

On 5/9/2022 10:44 AM, Gene wrote:

the NVDA add-on doesn't have a time marker feature but there is a utility that allows you to create and go to time markers using Winamp.  It was developed by the late and missed Carlos.  It works whether you use a screen-reader or not. 

I'm not sure what you are discussing about jumping to different audio streams.  It may be that the Window-eyes add-on allows you to do so more quickly and conveniently, but Winamp has book marks. 

I am not aware of any way in Winamp or using the NVDA or JAWS Winamp add-ons to adjust how quickly you can move through a file using the left and right arrows.  But given the time marker setting ability and the very convenient jump by time feature in Winamp, I have never missed such a feature.  You, having used it, might miss having it.

I am not saying not to use Window-eyes when you use Winamp.  I'm saying that if you ask about things you think are missing in NVDA, you may find out about ways to do things you don't know.

Gene

On 5/9/2022 10:32 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

Well now, let's see.

 

When using the addon, I saw no buttons on the number row that would take you to your chosen audio streams, no option for time  place markers for relocating your place in a large audio file, such as a recorded program, no adjustable incremental fast forward or    rewind, and for me that would be quite enough, although I'm sure there are even more features that I've never made any use of.

 

If an interested coder would take a look at that particular app, they could create quite a useful addon for NVDA.

 

And no, the bookmark menu just doesn't quite cut it for me. And I don't like having to fast forward and rewind in five second intervals. There are times when at least fifteen minute jumps are really the ticket.

 

Anyway, these are the conveniences I've become quite used too over the past twenty years or so, therefore, they are quite hard to give up.

 

Guess if I were a coder then I might do it myself, but, I am not.

 

I am not all that impressed with Foobar  or VLC.

 

Ah, I almost forgot, having access to spoken equalizer adjustments. 

 

 

On 5/9/2022 10:00 AM, Governor staten wrote:

There is an add--on for winamp in NVDA. Have you tried it? What's wrong with it?

 

 

---

 

On 5/9/2022 9:40 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

 Good and patient listers,


I'm quite sure now that I have figured out where my issue with headers stems from, and it is in the different way in which Window-Eyes handled headers on Web pages.


With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.


To confuse things just a little, with NVDA, and JFW, if you type the 2 before the letter H, you are actually able to skip over headers, or in the case of BARD and Bookshare, titles.


Anyway, my bad.


Now before anybody takes the opportunity to launch into me about still making use of WE, if only someone would take it upon themselves to right an equally convenient and sophisticated addon for Winamp, I would just give it up altogether, at this point, most likely for NVDA. But until someone does, I'll just have to keep using WE whenever I want to do any serious music listening, which in my case is quite often <smile>.


I think my next project might be to learn how to use emojies.


Once again, thanks kindly for your assistance.


Larry

 

Lol. Use foo bar or vlc for yore listening. I like it in loo of win amp any time. Plus you can config the keys to fit what you want to do.

A slight correction on your findings. You do not do 2 h at all or even h 2. just do 2 in browse mode and you will be taken to the heading level 2 on that page and shift 2 to go back.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Higgins
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 6:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Header issue with Bookshare and BARD pages, my bad

Good and patient listers,


I'm quite sure now that I have figured out where my issue with headers stems from, and it is in the different way in which Window-Eyes handled headers on Web pages.


With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.


To confuse things just a little, with NVDA, and JFW, if you type the 2
before the letter H, you are actually able to skip over headers, or in
the case of BARD and Bookshare, titles.


Anyway, my bad.


Now before anybody takes the opportunity to launch into me about still
making use of WE, if only someone would take it upon themselves to right
an equally convenient and sophisticated addon for Winamp, I would just
give it up altogether, at this point, most likely for NVDA. But until
someone does, I'll just have to keep using WE whenever I want to do any
serious music listening, which in my case is quite often <smile>.


I think my next project might be to learn how to use emojies.


Once again, thanks kindly for your assistance.


Larry

Lol. That’s because some of us are using players that are IMHO way better than and more up to date than winamp.  I did mention some in my last message so won’t again. And all of them are accessible without add ons.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Higgins
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2022 9:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Header issue with Bookshare and BARD pages, my bad

 

Do you happen to have a link handy for that utility?

 

I downloaded a utility of Carlos's a while ago, but don't now know just where i managed to put it, much less where I got it.

 

Believe me, if I can find alternative ways of accomplishing similar results and aren't more trouble than they are worth, I'll use them.

 

 Maybe I'll send off my suggestions to the developer of the addon when I find the time, it certainly wouldn't hurt. I just can't understand how anybody who has made use of Winamp and a screen reader wouldn't have ask about these gaps in access by now, but maybe I'll just have to be the first to do so.

 

On 5/9/2022 10:44 AM, Gene wrote:

the NVDA add-on doesn't have a time marker feature but there is a utility that allows you to create and go to time markers using Winamp.  It was developed by the late and missed Carlos.  It works whether you use a screen-reader or not. 

I'm not sure what you are discussing about jumping to different audio streams.  It may be that the Window-eyes add-on allows you to do so more quickly and conveniently, but Winamp has book marks. 

I am not aware of any way in Winamp or using the NVDA or JAWS Winamp add-ons to adjust how quickly you can move through a file using the left and right arrows.  But given the time marker setting ability and the very convenient jump by time feature in Winamp, I have never missed such a feature.  You, having used it, might miss having it.

I am not saying not to use Window-eyes when you use Winamp.  I'm saying that if you ask about things you think are missing in NVDA, you may find out about ways to do things you don't know.

Gene

On 5/9/2022 10:32 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

Well now, let's see.

 

When using the addon, I saw no buttons on the number row that would take you to your chosen audio streams, no option for time  place markers for relocating your place in a large audio file, such as a recorded program, no adjustable incremental fast forward or    rewind, and for me that would be quite enough, although I'm sure there are even more features that I've never made any use of.

 

If an interested coder would take a look at that particular app, they could create quite a useful addon for NVDA.

 

And no, the bookmark menu just doesn't quite cut it for me. And I don't like having to fast forward and rewind in five second intervals. There are times when at least fifteen minute jumps are really the ticket.

 

Anyway, these are the conveniences I've become quite used too over the past twenty years or so, therefore, they are quite hard to give up.

 

Guess if I were a coder then I might do it myself, but, I am not.

 

I am not all that impressed with Foobar  or VLC.

 

Ah, I almost forgot, having access to spoken equalizer adjustments. 

 

 

On 5/9/2022 10:00 AM, Governor staten wrote:

There is an add--on for winamp in NVDA. Have you tried it? What's wrong with it?

 

 

---

 

On 5/9/2022 9:40 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

 Good and patient listers,


I'm quite sure now that I have figured out where my issue with headers stems from, and it is in the different way in which Window-Eyes handled headers on Web pages.


With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.


To confuse things just a little, with NVDA, and JFW, if you type the 2 before the letter H, you are actually able to skip over headers, or in the case of BARD and Bookshare, titles.


Anyway, my bad.


Now before anybody takes the opportunity to launch into me about still making use of WE, if only someone would take it upon themselves to right an equally convenient and sophisticated addon for Winamp, I would just give it up altogether, at this point, most likely for NVDA. But until someone does, I'll just have to keep using WE whenever I want to do any serious music listening, which in my case is quite often <smile>.


I think my next project might be to learn how to use emojies.


Once again, thanks kindly for your assistance.


Larry

 

Do you happen to have a link handy for that utility?

I downloaded a utility of Carlos's a while ago, but don't now know just where i managed to put it, much less where I got it.

Believe me, if I can find alternative ways of accomplishing similar results and aren't more trouble than they are worth, I'll use them.

 Maybe I'll send off my suggestions to the developer of the addon when I find the time, it certainly wouldn't hurt. I just can't understand how anybody who has made use of Winamp and a screen reader wouldn't have ask about these gaps in access by now, but maybe I'll just have to be the first to do so.

the NVDA add-on doesn't have a time marker feature but there is a utility that allows you to create and go to time markers using Winamp.  It was developed by the late and missed Carlos.  It works whether you use a screen-reader or not. 

I'm not sure what you are discussing about jumping to different audio streams.  It may be that the Window-eyes add-on allows you to do so more quickly and conveniently, but Winamp has book marks. 

I am not aware of any way in Winamp or using the NVDA or JAWS Winamp add-ons to adjust how quickly you can move through a file using the left and right arrows.  But given the time marker setting ability and the very convenient jump by time feature in Winamp, I have never missed such a feature.  You, having used it, might miss having it.

I am not saying not to use Window-eyes when you use Winamp.  I'm saying that if you ask about things you think are missing in NVDA, you may find out about ways to do things you don't know.

Gene

On 5/9/2022 10:32 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

Well now, let's see.

 

When using the addon, I saw no buttons on the number row that would take you to your chosen audio streams, no option for time  place markers for relocating your place in a large audio file, such as a recorded program, no adjustable incremental fast forward or    rewind, and for me that would be quite enough, although I'm sure there are even more features that I've never made any use of.

 

If an interested coder would take a look at that particular app, they could create quite a useful addon for NVDA.

 

And no, the bookmark menu just doesn't quite cut it for me. And I don't like having to fast forward and rewind in five second intervals. There are times when at least fifteen minute jumps are really the ticket.

 

Anyway, these are the conveniences I've become quite used too over the past twenty years or so, therefore, they are quite hard to give up.

 

Guess if I were a coder then I might do it myself, but, I am not.

 

I am not all that impressed with Foobar  or VLC.

 

Ah, I almost forgot, having access to spoken equalizer adjustments. 

 

 

On 5/9/2022 10:00 AM, Governor staten wrote:

There is an add--on for winamp in NVDA. Have you tried it? What's wrong with it?

 

 

---

 

On 5/9/2022 9:40 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

 Good and patient listers,


I'm quite sure now that I have figured out where my issue with headers stems from, and it is in the different way in which Window-Eyes handled headers on Web pages.


With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.


To confuse things just a little, with NVDA, and JFW, if you type the 2 before the letter H, you are actually able to skip over headers, or in the case of BARD and Bookshare, titles.


Anyway, my bad.


Now before anybody takes the opportunity to launch into me about still making use of WE, if only someone would take it upon themselves to right an equally convenient and sophisticated addon for Winamp, I would just give it up altogether, at this point, most likely for NVDA. But until someone does, I'll just have to keep using WE whenever I want to do any serious music listening, which in my case is quite often <smile>.


I think my next project might be to learn how to use emojies.


Once again, thanks kindly for your assistance.


Larry

 

Here is a Dropbox link.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/12ls84nh7hj5h4w/Winamp%20Time%20Markers.exe?dl=1

Also, although the program is not intended for use as a portable program, since I now know that I can use it to play streams, more or less like using book marks, I wanted to see if I could just place the folder on another machine, copied from the machine it is already on.

I did so.  When I ran the utility, I got an error message about a script.  I answered yes to the message about running the script.  The utility works perfectly on the new machine after you say yes each time you run it.  The streams I have placed in the program run so I can back up the program and save all the streams to be played in that way. 

Gene
On 5/9/2022 11:04 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

Do you happen to have a link handy for that utility?

I downloaded a utility of Carlos's a while ago, but don't now know just where i managed to put it, much less where I got it.

Believe me, if I can find alternative ways of accomplishing similar results and aren't more trouble than they are worth, I'll use them.

 Maybe I'll send off my suggestions to the developer of the addon when I find the time, it certainly wouldn't hurt. I just can't understand how anybody who has made use of Winamp and a screen reader wouldn't have ask about these gaps in access by now, but maybe I'll just have to be the first to do so.

On 5/9/2022 10:44 AM, Gene wrote:

the NVDA add-on doesn't have a time marker feature but there is a utility that allows you to create and go to time markers using Winamp.  It was developed by the late and missed Carlos.  It works whether you use a screen-reader or not. 

I'm not sure what you are discussing about jumping to different audio streams.  It may be that the Window-eyes add-on allows you to do so more quickly and conveniently, but Winamp has book marks. 

I am not aware of any way in Winamp or using the NVDA or JAWS Winamp add-ons to adjust how quickly you can move through a file using the left and right arrows.  But given the time marker setting ability and the very convenient jump by time feature in Winamp, I have never missed such a feature.  You, having used it, might miss having it.

I am not saying not to use Window-eyes when you use Winamp.  I'm saying that if you ask about things you think are missing in NVDA, you may find out about ways to do things you don't know.

Gene

On 5/9/2022 10:32 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

Well now, let's see.

When using the addon, I saw no buttons on the number row that would take you to your chosen audio streams, no option for time  place markers for relocating your place in a large audio file, such as a recorded program, no adjustable incremental fast forward or    rewind, and for me that would be quite enough, although I'm sure there are even more features that I've never made any use of.

If an interested coder would take a look at that particular app, they could create quite a useful addon for NVDA.

And no, the bookmark menu just doesn't quite cut it for me. And I don't like having to fast forward and rewind in five second intervals. There are times when at least fifteen minute jumps are really the ticket.

Anyway, these are the conveniences I've become quite used too over the past twenty years or so, therefore, they are quite hard to give up.

Guess if I were a coder then I might do it myself, but, I am not.

I am not all that impressed with Foobar  or VLC.

Ah, I almost forgot, having access to spoken equalizer adjustments. 

On 5/9/2022 10:00 AM, Governor staten wrote:

There is an add--on for winamp in NVDA. Have you tried it? What's wrong with it?

---

On 5/9/2022 9:40 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

 Good and patient listers,


I'm quite sure now that I have figured out where my issue with headers stems from, and it is in the different way in which Window-Eyes handled headers on Web pages.


With WE, you type the designated header number before the H, where with JFW and NVDA, you type the H before the designated number.


To confuse things just a little, with NVDA, and JFW, if you type the 2 before the letter H, you are actually able to skip over headers, or in the case of BARD and Bookshare, titles.


Anyway, my bad.


Now before anybody takes the opportunity to launch into me about still making use of WE, if only someone would take it upon themselves to right an equally convenient and sophisticated addon for Winamp, I would just give it up altogether, at this point, most likely for NVDA. But until someone does, I'll just have to keep using WE whenever I want to do any serious music listening, which in my case is quite often <smile>.


I think my next project might be to learn how to use emojies.


Once again, thanks kindly for your assistance.


Larry