Hi,

Can you tell us the Windows version you have and the version of Calculator you've got? To obtain the latter, from Calculator, press NVDA+F1, look for the line that says "appModule.productVersion", and copy and paste that line as a reply.

Cheers,

Joseph

Which calculator?  There are so many (over the years) Microsoft-issued calculators that run under Windows that it is important to know which one.  I'm presuming the one that "comes with" under Windows 10/11 with the modern universal interface is what's being asked about, but . . .

Personally, I still far prefer, and continue to use, Microsoft Calculator Plus, which I archived long ago.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 

Are you running the Windows Essentials add-on?  That may solve the problem.  My guess is that when you reinstalled the calculator, you got a different version that requires the add-on to read some output automatically.


Gene

On 2/6/2022 3:35 AM, Marco Oros wrote:

I have a question. I don't know, if It is problem of NVDA. One time I had to reinstall windows Calculator. After this, NVDA stopped me anounced automatically such things, like multiplications, clearing number by numbers and results.

I must press NVDA+up arrow. How to fix this issue?

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco

In fact if you look at the descriptor in keyboard help it says “Reads all controls in the active window.” Hth.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Topic "Narrator vs NVDA" on Blind Android Users Group

 

This message turned out to be longer than I expected.  Read it when you have time and interest.

 

I read the discussion and I was reminded, speaking of how to use different access methods, of one I almost never see discussed.  People discuss object navigation off and on but one command related to that is NVDA key b.

My impression is that people tend to think of that command as a read dialog command, but it is much more.  What that command does is read every object on the screen. 

 

I don't use the command that much but I find it very useful to know.

 

It may be cumbersome and take more time than you want to expend to find something in this way, depending on where it is and how long it takes NVDA to move through the objects to get there but there are times I find things that way I don't find by manually using object navigation.  I don't know if that is because the structure is complex enough that I miss it or if it is not accessible by manually moving through objects for some reason. 

 

NVDA b doesn't just read objects as it moves through and among them.  It actually moves you to what it is reading in the object navigator.  So if you hear something you want to work with and immediately press control, if you do it fast enough, you will still be in that object and can read the line you are on with the read current line in the object navigator command.  The desktop layout command is numpad 8.  Someone else may supply the laptop layout command. 

 

There are times when I press control to stop speech and I'm on the next object being read.  I may look for the one that was read or I may issue the NVDA b command again and start hearing everything over again.  Since I know better what words I'm listening for, I may well be able to stop speech when I am in the object. 

 

people may want to experiment in different windows to see what they hear with this command.  My explanation may not show why it is interesting at times to do so just to see what is read, even if you only listen to some of what is on screen.  This may give people a better idea of how and when they may want to use it but it also helped me learn about why some programs are often so easy and fast for sighted people to use, at least some aspects of the programs.  You may hear a tool bar read that you would not usually, if ever, come across in using the program.  Hearing all sorts of controls announced that a sighted person just sees helps demonstrate why sighted people can use so many programs to an extent, or more, if they know in general what a certain class of program does and in general how to use a certain class of program. 

 

In other words, where a blind person may look through menus and dialogs to learn about how to use a program if they already know enough about a class of program to understand what they see, a sighted person may see a lot of common commands in tool bars displayed in the main program window.  At times, when I move by object, I see commands and brief explanations like send a message, reply to a message, start the colorizer, and lots of other commands.  those are examples of what I see in Windows Live Mail. 

 

Gene

On 2/6/2022 11:51 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

How this topic ever came to have been started there, I will never know or understand, but since that group is unmoderated, it stayed.  There has been enough interesting conversation about Narrator, NVDA, and screen readers across platforms in general, and how various people are using them, that I thought I'd make our readership aware of that topic.  If you want to have a look:  Narrator vs NVDA

It's touched on more than just Narrator and NVDA and has had some really interesting meta-discussion about screen readers in general.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 

This message turned out to be longer than I expected.  Read it when you have time and interest.

I read the discussion and I was reminded, speaking of how to use different access methods, of one I almost never see discussed.  People discuss object navigation off and on but one command related to that is NVDA key b.

My impression is that people tend to think of that command as a read dialog command, but it is much more.  What that command does is read every object on the screen. 

I don't use the command that much but I find it very useful to know.

It may be cumbersome and take more time than you want to expend to find something in this way, depending on where it is and how long it takes NVDA to move through the objects to get there but there are times I find things that way I don't find by manually using object navigation.  I don't know if that is because the structure is complex enough that I miss it or if it is not accessible by manually moving through objects for some reason. 

NVDA b doesn't just read objects as it moves through and among them.  It actually moves you to what it is reading in the object navigator.  So if you hear something you want to work with and immediately press control, if you do it fast enough, you will still be in that object and can read the line you are on with the read current line in the object navigator command.  The desktop layout command is numpad 8.  Someone else may supply the laptop layout command. 

There are times when I press control to stop speech and I'm on the next object being read.  I may look for the one that was read or I may issue the NVDA b command again and start hearing everything over again.  Since I know better what words I'm listening for, I may well be able to stop speech when I am in the object. 

people may want to experiment in different windows to see what they hear with this command.  My explanation may not show why it is interesting at times to do so just to see what is read, even if you only listen to some of what is on screen.  This may give people a better idea of how and when they may want to use it but it also helped me learn about why some programs are often so easy and fast for sighted people to use, at least some aspects of the programs.  You may hear a tool bar read that you would not usually, if ever, come across in using the program.  Hearing all sorts of controls announced that a sighted person just sees helps demonstrate why sighted people can use so many programs to an extent, or more, if they know in general what a certain class of program does and in general how to use a certain class of program. 

In other words, where a blind person may look through menus and dialogs to learn about how to use a program if they already know enough about a class of program to understand what they see, a sighted person may see a lot of common commands in tool bars displayed in the main program window.  At times, when I move by object, I see commands and brief explanations like send a message, reply to a message, start the colorizer, and lots of other commands.  those are examples of what I see in Windows Live Mail. 

Gene

How this topic ever came to have been started there, I will never know or understand, but since that group is unmoderated, it stayed.  There has been enough interesting conversation about Narrator, NVDA, and screen readers across platforms in general, and how various people are using them, that I thought I'd make our readership aware of that topic.  If you want to have a look:  Narrator vs NVDA

It's touched on more than just Narrator and NVDA and has had some really interesting meta-discussion about screen readers in general.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 02:03 PM, Gene wrote:

This message turned out to be longer than I expected.  Read it when you have time and interest.

-
Gene, no snark intended, but I called it a "topic" because it is just that, and already has in excess of 20 messages.  And if anyone ever sees me use the term meta-discussion it means that the conversation has had interesting and pertinent side loops that are not directly about things the title indicates.  And in the case of screen readers, their features, and alternate access methods the whole conversation "goes meta" pretty darned quickly.  In this particular case discussions of use of touch on the Android platform compared and contrasted to what's available on the PC platform were introduced.  The topic is wide ranging, but around a central core of how certain features can be, and are, exploited by different users.  It was fun for me to watch the proverbial light bulbs go off above the heads of various readers when techniques they'd never even thought existed were introduced.

It's not a short read, but for those who decide they have an interest after about the first 5 offerings it's well worth continuing to read.  If not, then stop reading.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 

This message turned out to be longer than I expected.  Read it when you have time and interest.

I read the discussion and I was reminded, speaking of how to use different access methods, of one I almost never see discussed.  People discuss object navigation off and on but one command related to that is NVDA key b.

My impression is that people tend to think of that command as a read dialog command, but it is much more.  What that command does is read every object on the screen. 

I don't use the command that much but I find it very useful to know.

It may be cumbersome and take more time than you want to expend to find something in this way, depending on where it is and how long it takes NVDA to move through the objects to get there but there are times I find things that way I don't find by manually using object navigation.  I don't know if that is because the structure is complex enough that I miss it or if it is not accessible by manually moving through objects for some reason. 

NVDA b doesn't just read objects as it moves through and among them.  It actually moves you to what it is reading in the object navigator.  So if you hear something you want to work with and immediately press control, if you do it fast enough, you will still be in that object and can read the line you are on with the read current line in the object navigator command.  The desktop layout command is numpad 8.  Someone else may supply the laptop layout command. 

There are times when I press control to stop speech and I'm on the next object being read.  I may look for the one that was read or I may issue the NVDA b command again and start hearing everything over again.  Since I know better what words I'm listening for, I may well be able to stop speech when I am in the object. 

people may want to experiment in different windows to see what they hear with this command.  My explanation may not show why it is interesting at times to do so just to see what is read, even if you only listen to some of what is on screen.  This may give people a better idea of how and when they may want to use it but it also helped me learn about why some programs are often so easy and fast for sighted people to use, at least some aspects of the programs.  You may hear a tool bar read that you would not usually, if ever, come across in using the program.  Hearing all sorts of controls announced that a sighted person just sees helps demonstrate why sighted people can use so many programs to an extent, or more, if they know in general what a certain class of program does and in general how to use a certain class of program. 

In other words, where a blind person may look through menus and dialogs to learn about how to use a program if they already know enough about a class of program to understand what they see, a sighted person may see a lot of common commands in tool bars displayed in the main program window.  At times, when I move by object, I see commands and brief explanations like send a message, reply to a message, start the colorizer, and lots of other commands.  those are examples of what I see in Windows Live Mail. 

Gene

On 2/6/2022 11:51 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

How this topic ever came to have been started there, I will never know or understand, but since that group is unmoderated, it stayed.  There has been enough interesting conversation about Narrator, NVDA, and screen readers across platforms in general, and how various people are using them, that I thought I'd make our readership aware of that topic.  If you want to have a look:  Narrator vs NVDA

It's touched on more than just Narrator and NVDA and has had some really interesting meta-discussion about screen readers in general.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 

The input help description should be rewritten to present the same information as the summary in the manual entry.

The command returns you to the web page you were working on before you worked with the items discussed below.

6.4. Embedded Objects

Pages can include rich content using technologies such as Oracle Java and HTML5, as well as applications and dialogs. Where these are encountered in browse mode, NVDA will report "embedded object", "application" or "dialog", respectively. You can quickly move to them using the o and shift+o embedded object single letter navigation keys. To interact with these objects, you can press enter on them. If it is accessible, you can then tab around it and interact with it like any other application. A key command is provided to return to the original page containing the embedded object: Name Key Description Move to containing browse mode document NVDA+control+space Moves the focus out of the current embedded object and into the document that contains it

On 2/6/2022 4:04 AM, Rowen Cary wrote: > > Hi all, > > As the title describes, the description for the gesture in input help > mode is "Moves the focus to the next closest document that contains > the focus". My understanding is: If there is a software with a webView > embedded object, I can perform this gesture to navigate the system > focus to the webView. The truth is that it doesn't do anything. Is > this an NVDA bug? > > thanks > >

How this topic ever came to have been started there, I will never know or understand, but since that group is unmoderated, it stayed.  There has been enough interesting conversation about Narrator, NVDA, and screen readers across platforms in general, and how various people are using them, that I thought I'd make our readership aware of that topic.  If you want to have a look:  Narrator vs NVDA

It's touched on more than just Narrator and NVDA and has had some really interesting meta-discussion about screen readers in general.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 

I have a question. I don't know, if It is problem of NVDA. One time I had to reinstall windows Calculator. After this, NVDA stopped me anounced automatically such things, like multiplications, clearing number by numbers and results.

I must press NVDA+up arrow. How to fix this issue?

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco