Date   

Re: Outlook 365: Issue with announcement of selected text while composing mail

Pranav Lal
 

Luke,

 

Does the problem go away if you restart nvda?

 

I have had this happen to me on my work laptop but it is not reproducable.

Pranav


Re: The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

molly the blind tech lover
 

Yep I've noticed that too.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:30 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

Hi guys


has any one else notice in nvda 2020.4 beta 1 when you go into the settings of nvda say you pick a section then press the F1 key it is meant to bring up information on that section or the setting you are looking at.


It seems to work some times bringing up the right section and other times it brings up the user manual.


but it seems also if the user manual comes up while looking at say a
settings if it does not come up correctly press the f5 key and the
sections seem to come up correctly.


What I mean if the setting you are looking at then press the f1 key and
the user manual comes up instead of the section you are looking at press
the f5 key and the section you are looking at comes up correctly.


I tried this in a couple of different browsers with the same result with
the user manual coming up instead of the right section until you preess
the f5 key to bring it up. I will have to do more playing around with it.


I am guessing it should come up correctly on all settings you find to
find out more into on not just the ones with check boxs.


Gene nz


The f1 key not bringing up sections properly in nvda 2020.4 beta 1

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi guys


has any one else notice in nvda 2020.4 beta 1 when you go into the settings of nvda say you pick a section then press the F1 key it is meant to bring up information on that section or the setting you are looking at.


It seems to work some times bringing up the right section and other times it brings up the user manual.


but it seems also if the user manual comes up while looking at say a settings if it does not come up correctly press the f5 key and the sections seem to come up correctly.


What I mean if the setting you are looking at then press the f1 key and the user manual comes up instead of the section you are looking at press the f5 key and the section you are looking at comes up correctly.


I tried this in a couple of different browsers with the same result with the user manual coming up instead of the right section until you preess the f5 key to bring it up. I will have to do more playing around with it.


I am guessing it should come up correctly on all settings you find to find out more into on not just the ones with check boxs.


Gene nz


Re: NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

molly the blind tech lover
 

I just downloaded the beta.

Works great.

I love that new f1 help feature.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 5:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

 

Hi everyone,

 

Lazily copying my tweet - so you get everything in one sentence: NVDA 2020.4Beta1 is now available for testing, including  new Chinese Input methods, an update to Liblouis, the elements list now works in focus mode, context sensitive help pressing F1 in NVDA dialogs & heaps more!

 

 

As usual, please do report any issues on GitHub.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: Outlook 365: Issue with announcement of selected text while composing mail

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Thank you very much for the reply. I will get those extra details and add them to the issue comments. Much appreciated.

On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:


Hi Luke,

I just replied to the issue - basically I asked what version of Outlook 365 are you using?  Which synthesizer are you using?  Does it happen when moving by word (without selecting) or (while I think of it) - does it happen if you press the right arrow to move by character?

And finally, could you please get a copy of your NVDA log - I put the instructions in my comment, but you can also email them to me at info@... if you prefer as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 6:08 AM Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...> wrote:
Hi,
Just giving this a bump because it’s been several days and I still haven’t heard anything from this group nor the GitHub community. Has anybody tried re-creating my issue, and, if so, were you able to? Thanks again.

On Dec 13, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Luke Robinett via groups.io <blindgroupsluke=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hi folks,

 

I created an issue for this several days ago on GitHub but haven’t heard back yet so thought I’d run it by the group in the meantime. When I’m composing a new email in Outlook 365, I get strange behavior when selecting text by word. What I mean is, if I hold down shift and control and then use the left and right cursor keys to select text by words, only every other highlighted word is spoken aloud. For example, if I was selecting the words in the following sentence, from left to right, “I hope everyone is well,” I would hear the following with each press of the right arrow key: I, silence, everyone, silence, well.

NVDA 220.3 on Win10 Home. I hope this makes sense.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Accessible Google Drive Clients

Kerryn Gunness <k_gunness@...>
 

Hi
i no you asked for an accessible client for g drive
i dont have a client, but g drive and other g suite work well on the web
below are the info

hi
from accessibility central
Using NVDA with Google programs by Roger Benz
The following NVDA Youtube tutorials are courtesy of Roger Benz from Google. They cover Google Drive, Google Docs, Google Sheets and Google Slides. To listen to these tutorials, please click on the link following each of the titles below:
Switch to the new Google Drive using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBDxYOR7CFY&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Drive using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaZgDXBsWI&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Docs using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPzSAqhHqQk&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Sheets using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCYT63b_m88&feature=youtu.be
Getting started with Google Slides using a screen reader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWZVQ-vldEk&feature=youtu.be

On 3/15/2020 4:17 AM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
nvda and google docs, sheets drive etc
all google apps
can nvda work with them?
where do i get the tutorial
thanks


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bhavya shah" <bhavya.shah125@gmail.com>
To: "nvda" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 2:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Accessible Google Drive Clients


Dear all,

I use NVDA version 2020.3 on Windows 10, and am on the lookout for an
alternative Google Drive client. I currently use Google's own Backup
and Sync utility, and my main issue with it is that it does not sync
shared folders. (Shift+Z no longer works.) Additionally, Backup and
Sync is a bit too resource-hungry for my liking and seems to sometimes
cause disproportionate loads. Any suggestions of third-party,
accessible and lightweight Google Drive clients for Windows 10 would
be massively helpful.

I would truly appreciate any assistance with the above.

Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/




Re: How is verbosity decided

Quentin Christensen
 

Firstly,

Yes you are correct, figures are reported but there is currently no document formatting option to toggle that.  There is, however, an issue for that already - so do feel free to subscribe to that for updates on when it is updated: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10826

The idea of including configuration profiles in NVDA itself is of course possible, but what would be included? (rhetorical question!)

If we did that, then suddenly some programs would behave differently to others - or you'd really want to change a setting, and yet it wouldn't be changed in every program, and why does NVDA read this really useful information in Word but not Firefox?  It would cause more problems than it would solve, especially as how one user uses Word for instance, might be very different to how another user does.

So the best solution, we feel, is to not have any configuration profiles setup by default, but to hopefully teach users how to access them.  I have put forward my idea for improving configuration profiles here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10322 - as with any other issue, feel free to subscribe to that, or to add your own 2 cents to it if you have a point to add which hasn't been made already on the issue.

The scripts term is a bit confusing.  Most of the time when people use it, they mean either Jaws scripts or NVDA add-ons.  In fact, the term has crept into our "What's new" document (in quite a few places as I look at it now) to mean a software function in NVDA itself.  For instance in 2020.3 one change was:

"The Report formatting script (NVDA+f) has now been changed to report the formatting at the system caret rather than at the review cursor position. To report formatting at the review cursor position now use NVDA+shift+f. (#9505)"

Which refers to NVDA's own internal routine which runs when a user presses NVDA+f.  So Gene's comment about NVDA using "scripts for various programs", is (I think I'm reading his intentions correctly) in line with that usage of the word, and I'm happy to put my hand up and say we can take the blame for that particular confusion :)

Also the difference between bug report and feature request is more around the prompts in the template itself - the issue still ends up in the same place (as an issue), and several people have commented that we should actually add a few more of the prompt questions from the bug report template to the feature request template.  In essence, whatever you are reporting or requesting, try to include as much information as possible which might be relevant, even if it isn't explicitly asked.

Quentin.



On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:56 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:13 PM, Gene wrote:
newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no setting to control this announcement.
-
I'll agree that:

1. This could be mighty annoying.
2. It's something that should be toggle-able like most other document formatting announcements are.

My guess is that focus was on getting the function to work, but that adding another checkbox to Document Formatting options slipped through the cracks.  I don't know whether such a request would be considered a bug report versus feature request.  I'd be more inclined toward bug report, as there is a well established collection of settings that would seem to have been the ideal place to add a checkbox for this, but it didn't happen.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How is verbosity decided

 

Hi,

When you do file a bug report (be sure to check for existing issues first, especially closed ones), be sure to CC me and Quentin (my GitHub ID is josephsl).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of g melconian
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 3:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How is verbosity decided

 

It could be a bug report. As  well as an improvement to  improve the features.  


Re: How is verbosity decided

g melconian <gmelconian619@...>
 

It could be a bug report. As  well as an improvement to  improve the features.  


Re: How is verbosity decided

 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:13 PM, Gene wrote:
newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no setting to control this announcement.
-
I'll agree that:

1. This could be mighty annoying.
2. It's something that should be toggle-able like most other document formatting announcements are.

My guess is that focus was on getting the function to work, but that adding another checkbox to Document Formatting options slipped through the cracks.  I don't know whether such a request would be considered a bug report versus feature request.  I'd be more inclined toward bug report, as there is a well established collection of settings that would seem to have been the ideal place to add a checkbox for this, but it didn't happen.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: Outlook 365: Issue with announcement of selected text while composing mail

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Luke,

I just replied to the issue - basically I asked what version of Outlook 365 are you using?  Which synthesizer are you using?  Does it happen when moving by word (without selecting) or (while I think of it) - does it happen if you press the right arrow to move by character?

And finally, could you please get a copy of your NVDA log - I put the instructions in my comment, but you can also email them to me at info@... if you prefer as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 6:08 AM Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...> wrote:
Hi,
Just giving this a bump because it’s been several days and I still haven’t heard anything from this group nor the GitHub community. Has anybody tried re-creating my issue, and, if so, were you able to? Thanks again.

On Dec 13, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Luke Robinett via groups.io <blindgroupsluke=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:



Hi folks,

 

I created an issue for this several days ago on GitHub but haven’t heard back yet so thought I’d run it by the group in the meantime. When I’m composing a new email in Outlook 365, I get strange behavior when selecting text by word. What I mean is, if I hold down shift and control and then use the left and right cursor keys to select text by words, only every other highlighted word is spoken aloud. For example, if I was selecting the words in the following sentence, from left to right, “I hope everyone is well,” I would hear the following with each press of the right arrow key: I, silence, everyone, silence, well.

NVDA 220.3 on Win10 Home. I hope this makes sense.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Quentin,


I just downloaded this new version of NVDA and it's working great so-far.


Rosemarie



On 12/16/2020 2:13 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

Lazily copying my tweet - so you get everything in one sentence: NVDA 2020.4Beta1 is now available for testing, including  new Chinese Input methods, an update to Liblouis, the elements list now works in focus mode, context sensitive help pressing F1 in NVDA dialogs & heaps more!


As usual, please do report any issues on GitHub.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Keyboard

Matthew Whitaker
 

Hi. Currently, there are no solar keyboards that work with IOS and Windows… there are keyboards that work with those operating systems separately though.

On Dec 16, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Darren Tomblin <dtomblin@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi I’m looking for a full size Bluetooth solar keyboard that will work on windows and iOS does anyone know anything like that thanks

73,
Darren Tomblin KC9JJJ




Keyboard

Darren Tomblin
 

Hi I’m looking for a full size Bluetooth solar keyboard that will work on windows and iOS does anyone know anything like that thanks

73,
Darren Tomblin KC9JJJ


Re: Configuration Profiles and Triggers

 

Hi,

Yes.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 2:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Configuration Profiles and Triggers

 

Joseph,

          Thanks.  That means that it's "globally scoped" as a behavior override no matter where you are or what you're doing, which is what I was unclear about.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: Configuration Profiles and Triggers

 

Joseph,

          Thanks.  That means that it's "globally scoped" as a behavior override no matter where you are or what you're doing, which is what I was unclear about.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


NVDA 2020.4 Beta 1 now available

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

Lazily copying my tweet - so you get everything in one sentence: NVDA 2020.4Beta1 is now available for testing, including  new Chinese Input methods, an update to Liblouis, the elements list now works in focus mode, context sensitive help pressing F1 in NVDA dialogs & heaps more!


As usual, please do report any issues on GitHub.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Configuration Profiles and Triggers

 

Hi,

Say all profile is akin to a specialized manual profile in that it will be active while say all is in progress from any program (NVDA+Down arrow, NVDA+A on laptop layout). Think of it as NVDA version of alternate say all from JAWS where JAWS can be configured to use a different speech synthesizer during say all.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 2:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Configuration Profiles and Triggers

 

In playing around with these features, I notice that there are three options related to when a configuration profile would be invoked:

Manual, Current Application (with that application named in parentheses after), and Say All.

I understand that the Manual invocation is just that.  There is no automatic triggering of that configuration profile and you have to ask for it.  I also understand that the Current Application option will create an automatic trigger such that when NVDA detects that the application has focus, that configuration profile will be used.

It's Say All that has me slightly confused, and it's about scope.  Is the Say All choice global, in that regardless of what application you may be in and what profile may be active, that will be overridden by what you set up for Say All?  Or is the Say All choice scoped underneath an existing configuration profile so that, say you have one for the Chrome browser and are in Chrome, would the Say All override in whatever way you have it configured already for Chrome, but not for anything else?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 


Re: How is verbosity decided

Gene
 

I will say that the reason I wrote my first message, the motivation that got me to do it is the newly added announcement of figure and out of figure. I have found no setting to control this announcement. If there is a way I overlooked, of course I'd like to know. But I see no reason for this announcement to be on. I haven't encountered it once where it adds any understanding of content. I might hear figure and then a link being read, then out of figure. The link would read exactly the same either way.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How is verbosity decided

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 04:21 PM, Gene wrote:
I'm talking about having profiles in the program at the time its downloaded that will cause differences such as bloc quotes to be announced in popular e-mail programs and not on the wweb.

-
I imagine it would be possible for NVAccess to create Configuration Profiles for any of a number of popular programs, and include them as part of the package. But the problem remains, defaults have to be chosen, and no matter what those are someone's not going to like them.

You have already had me, and Sarah, so far express why your chosen preference for you is something that neither of us would want as the default. That's not saying that your choice is wrong or inferior or that ours is better or superior, it all comes down to "tool to task".

Gene, you have expressed, on many occasions, that many screen reader users do not know how to use many of the features of their chosen screen readers for a number of different reasons, and I think that's the case here, to an extent. I just spent a few minutes playing with configuration profiles and triggers related to same and they're pretty straightforward. Even I will say that I can see a reason one might want to have predefined profiles for the various web browsers, and certain other programs, that are different from what the default NVDA configuration profile is, and one could legitimately discuss and argue what the default settings for some of those various profiles should be. But in the end, the end user absolutely, positively needs to know how to tweak these profiles if they were pre-existing, or to create them if they are not, if they have specific behaviors they want to see when a certain program is active.

Joseph Lee introduced me to the concept of information blackout in regard to screen reader users. There is no way that a screen reader can take in everything that appears on the screen at any given moment as a whole and deal with multiple elements like sighted people do, just because that's how sight and visual processing works. That means that from the outset there are things you don't know are there. When you add in that when text is read, with formatting, and you can't know what any given user at any given time might or might not find significant, you leave all options for announcement (or most of them, anyway), turned ON. You will never, and should never try, to second guess what any given individual may or may not find significant as far as a lot of document formatting goes. It took me all of a few minutes to figure out where the NVDA Configuration Profile Settings are (NVDA+N,C), create a new profile for a specific program on which I had focus before issuing that command (Use this profile for section, Current application radio button), and then using Document Formatting Options while that profile is active (you just continue on to those settings after having created the profile, which should still be active since you haven't changed the application which still has focus) to change what is/is not announced.

While you can argue, and should, what reasonable defaults are, in the end it is up to the end user to know how to do what I just described. And if they're annoyed about stuff being announced to post a message to a forum like this one asking about how they can get rid of the issue.

There is not, and never will be, a one-size-fits-all out of the box that makes every user happy. And the tools exist to, if not make any given user entirely happy, bring them an awful lot closer to that state.

When you have a problem, after briefly venting about it in a venue such as this, the next question should be: Is there I way I can make this work the way I want it to work? And explaining exactly what that is if the initial problem description and venting did not make that entirely clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next. We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner


Configuration Profiles and Triggers

 

In playing around with these features, I notice that there are three options related to when a configuration profile would be invoked:

Manual, Current Application (with that application named in parentheses after), and Say All.

I understand that the Manual invocation is just that.  There is no automatic triggering of that configuration profile and you have to ask for it.  I also understand that the Current Application option will create an automatic trigger such that when NVDA detects that the application has focus, that configuration profile will be used.

It's Say All that has me slightly confused, and it's about scope.  Is the Say All choice global, in that regardless of what application you may be in and what profile may be active, that will be overridden by what you set up for Say All?  Or is the Say All choice scoped underneath an existing configuration profile so that, say you have one for the Chrome browser and are in Chrome, would the Say All override in whatever way you have it configured already for Chrome, but not for anything else?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 

 

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