On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 11:21 AM, Gene wrote:

I may try to find your original message but as I recall, you said, however you worded it, that you can't install an add-on from a downloaded file. 

-
First, this message, which I've conveniently found for your review, see #94993, was in the topic Using the Thunderbird addon, not this one.

I said absolutely nothing in that post regarding other methods, I gave what I consider the most common, and convenient, way of acquiring Thunderbird add-ons sans any comment about alternative methods (none of which had been previously discussed in any detail, I might add).  I will ask you, again, to please stop reacting to what you think I've said when I've said no such thing.

Also, and I know it can happen, please try to avoid "cross tying" two different topics.  We all do it by accident every once in a while.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

NVDA key enter isn't described in input help.  All NVDA says is NVDA enter.  What does it do that just enter doesn't?

Gene

Hi Jean,

 

In certain applications like Quickbooks, the Mouse Over thing expands a menu, so you have to use it.

 

NVDA isn’t good at coping with Mouse Overs, JAWS takes you directly to it, with Control Insert Enter, but you may be able to achieve the same with NVDA Key and Enter.

 

All the best

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 02 May 2022 00:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] mouse hover

 

I often find that on web pages, using NVDA, the mouse can't be moved to your current position.  I don't know if other screen-readers allow that.  But even if you could, it would be very cumbersome to use such a way of working in NVDA. 

In JAWS, when you are on such a link, you hear mouse over announced. There is a JAWS command to do the equivalent of hovering the mouse over the link.  You are told something like, page changes at line 11.  You can then use a jump to line command to jump to that line and see what has changed.  You can, as I recall, use a return to your previous position command when you want to go back to where you were.

With NVDA, you would have to hover the mouse, and with no feed back about where the page changed, look through the page to see if you could find where the new material is. 

I almost never miss information I want by not using this feature.  I can't say I don't miss any information but I have never missed the ability.  And in JAWS, I often find that mouse over links add nothing useful, maybe changing the page visually in some way in some place.

Others who use the Internet in different ways may have different opinions but I suspect that this is one of the most unneeded possible features and I suspect that that is why JAWS is the only screen-reader to have it.

Gene

On 5/1/2022 5:40 PM, Monte Single wrote:

Hi List,

 

Lately I have come across online pages where I am supposed to let the mouse hover  on a link or message for “moreoptions”.

Can I do the equivilant   of a mouse hover  with nvda and not tare my hair out?

 

Thanks,

 

Mont

 

There is an NVDA add-on that provides first letter navigation in the folders tree view.

If you use NVDA, there is an NVDA add-on that makes arranging the order of headers such as from line and subject line accessible.  You can also cause headers to be shown or not shown.

Do you want information on both add-ons?

Gene

On 5/3/2022 6:30 AM, Robert Doc Wright godfearer wrote:

Is there an NVDA addon for thunderbird? I didn't see one when I pressed alt+g in manage addons.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using the Thunderbird addon

NVDA+H


Rui Fontes


Às 20:47 de 02/05/2022, Larry Higgins escreveu:

I just downloaded the Thunderbird addon for column arrangement and would like to know how to access it within Thunderbird client. Just the key stroke, I'll take it from there, or at least I hope that will be the case <smile>.


Thanks,


Larry

.

You explained how to install an add-on using NVDA itself, that is, using the built in browser to search for and install an add-on.  I may try to find your original message but as I recall, you said, however you worded it, that you can't install an add-on from a downloaded file.  I explained how you can download an add-on using an independent browser and install it.

Gene

On 5/3/2022 8:05 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 01:25 AM, Gene wrote:

Also, it is not true that you can't install an add-on from a file you have downloaded in a browser.

-
Where did I say that, Gene?  I didn't.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

I don't see why the attachment would cause the problem.  I suggested removing it because at times, seemingly irrational things happen.

As far as seeing messages in a different window is concerned, I don't see why that would cause what you are describing, but in another message, after I find it, I'll explain how to change a setting to have all messages display in the same window.

Gene

On 5/3/2022 6:31 AM, Larry Higgins wrote:

Well Gene, I never managed to get the Thunderbird addon installed, but did get the columns addon installed for NVDA, and it really looked like I had something. At least I had the read and unread labels set at the beginning of the message columns presentation.


Now I can't be sure that might have had nothing to do with it, but at the time, it didn't appear so.


Now my messages are opening up in another window, and in that setting, I have quite a bit of screen clutter, but at least I can read my mail.


I am using the reply to all option on the messages web page looking presentation in that window to send this reply.


Thank God I'm not completely out of the saddle, but it just isn't anything like the way I prefer my environment to look like or function.


Hopefully I have given you and anyone else who could add some helpful suggestions enough details to work with.


And yes, I was considering uninstalling the whole program.


I was reading an article going back to 2013 suggesting that one in this circumstance could uninstall a couple of settings and configuration files, but considering the changes that Thunderbird goes through over time, I'm definitely hesitant to do any of that.


Surely there has to be a way.


BTW, I really don't wish to discuss this topic here on this list, especially due to the fact that this is probably not even close to an NVDA issue, so if any of you could just send suggestions to the address below, that would most likely be preferable to all concerned.


larryhiggins22@...

Thanks a bunch,

Larry

On 5/3/2022 12:01 AM, Gene wrote:

I doubt that uninstalling and reinstalling Thunderbird would solve the problem unless you do more than just a typical uninstallation. Thunderbird, as do most programs now, save settings when uninstalled in case the user wants to install and use the program again.  If this is a settings problem, uninstalling and reinstalling should not correct it.

If the wrong add-on has been placed in the program, it may be that uninstalling and reinstalling the program would solve the problem. That may uninstall the add-on.  But if you are using a POP3 account, would you lose the e-mail stored in the program?  I don't know but if you don't want to take a chance, don't uninstall it until you find out.

You could try uninstalling the add-on just to see if that helps.

Gene

.

Hi Jean,

 

In certain applications like Quickbooks, the Mouse Over thing expands a menu, so you have to use it.

 

NVDA isn’t good at coping with Mouse Overs, JAWS takes you directly to it, with Control Insert Enter, but you may be able to achieve the same with NVDA Key and Enter.

 

All the best

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 02 May 2022 00:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] mouse hover

 

I often find that on web pages, using NVDA, the mouse can't be moved to your current position.  I don't know if other screen-readers allow that.  But even if you could, it would be very cumbersome to use such a way of working in NVDA. 

In JAWS, when you are on such a link, you hear mouse over announced. There is a JAWS command to do the equivalent of hovering the mouse over the link.  You are told something like, page changes at line 11.  You can then use a jump to line command to jump to that line and see what has changed.  You can, as I recall, use a return to your previous position command when you want to go back to where you were.

With NVDA, you would have to hover the mouse, and with no feed back about where the page changed, look through the page to see if you could find where the new material is. 

I almost never miss information I want by not using this feature.  I can't say I don't miss any information but I have never missed the ability.  And in JAWS, I often find that mouse over links add nothing useful, maybe changing the page visually in some way in some place.

Others who use the Internet in different ways may have different opinions but I suspect that this is one of the most unneeded possible features and I suspect that that is why JAWS is the only screen-reader to have it.

Gene

On 5/1/2022 5:40 PM, Monte Single wrote:

Hi List,

 

Lately I have come across online pages where I am supposed to let the mouse hover  on a link or message for “moreoptions”.

Can I do the equivilant   of a mouse hover  with nvda and not tare my hair out?

 

Thanks,

 

Mont

 

On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 01:25 AM, Gene wrote:

Also, it is not true that you can't install an add-on from a file you have downloaded in a browser.

-
Where did I say that, Gene?  I didn't.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

Well Gene, I never managed to get the Thunderbird addon installed, but did get the columns addon installed for NVDA, and it really looked like I had something. At least I had the read and unread labels set at the beginning of the message columns presentation.


Now I can't be sure that might have had nothing to do with it, but at the time, it didn't appear so.


Now my messages are opening up in another window, and in that setting, I have quite a bit of screen clutter, but at least I can read my mail.


I am using the reply to all option on the messages web page looking presentation in that window to send this reply.


Thank God I'm not completely out of the saddle, but it just isn't anything like the way I prefer my environment to look like or function.


Hopefully I have given you and anyone else who could add some helpful suggestions enough details to work with.


And yes, I was considering uninstalling the whole program.


I was reading an article going back to 2013 suggesting that one in this circumstance could uninstall a couple of settings and configuration files, but considering the changes that Thunderbird goes through over time, I'm definitely hesitant to do any of that.


Surely there has to be a way.


BTW, I really don't wish to discuss this topic here on this list, especially due to the fact that this is probably not even close to an NVDA issue, so if any of you could just send suggestions to the address below, that would most likely be preferable to all concerned.


larryhiggins22@...

Thanks a bunch,

Larry

On 5/3/2022 12:01 AM, Gene wrote:

I doubt that uninstalling and reinstalling Thunderbird would solve the problem unless you do more than just a typical uninstallation. Thunderbird, as do most programs now, save settings when uninstalled in case the user wants to install and use the program again.  If this is a settings problem, uninstalling and reinstalling should not correct it.

If the wrong add-on has been placed in the program, it may be that uninstalling and reinstalling the program would solve the problem. That may uninstall the add-on.  But if you are using a POP3 account, would you lose the e-mail stored in the program?  I don't know but if you don't want to take a chance, don't uninstall it until you find out.

You could try uninstalling the add-on just to see if that helps.

Gene

.

Is there an NVDA addon for thunderbird? I didn't see one when I pressed alt+g in manage addons.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using the Thunderbird addon

NVDA+H


Rui Fontes


Às 20:47 de 02/05/2022, Larry Higgins escreveu:

I just downloaded the Thunderbird addon for column arrangement and would like to know how to access it within Thunderbird client. Just the key stroke, I'll take it from there, or at least I hope that will be the case <smile>.


Thanks,


Larry

.

I often find that on web pages, using NVDA, the mouse can't be moved to your current position.  I don't know if other screen-readers allow that.  But even if you could, it would be very cumbersome to use such a way of working in NVDA. 

In JAWS, when you are on such a link, you hear mouse over announced. There is a JAWS command to do the equivalent of hovering the mouse over the link.  You are told something like, page changes at line 11.  You can then use a jump to line command to jump to that line and see what has changed.  You can, as I recall, use a return to your previous position command when you want to go back to where you were.

With NVDA, you would have to hover the mouse, and with no feed back about where the page changed, look through the page to see if you could find where the new material is. 

I almost never miss information I want by not using this feature.  I can't say I don't miss any information but I have never missed the ability.  And in JAWS, I often find that mouse over links add nothing useful, maybe changing the page visually in some way in some place.

Others who use the Internet in different ways may have different opinions but I suspect that this is one of the most unneeded possible features and I suspect that that is why JAWS is the only screen-reader to have it.

Gene

Hi List,

 

Lately I have come across online pages where I am supposed to let the mouse hover  on a link or message for “moreoptions”.

Can I do the equivilant   of a mouse hover  with nvda and not tare my hair out?

 

Thanks,

 

Mont