Date   

waterfox false alarm

 

Hi all.

Well, so much for waterfox classic.

There were people commenting on the post that it didn't seem to work with some sites.

I tried on youtube and it didn't work.

The download page had 56.2.1.4, the main link has been reverted, looks like its not ready to go.

At least I had a good look at it.

However I want my youtube, so I went back.


Re: waterfox new version scheme

 

www.waterfox.net is where you get waterfox from.



On 16/10/2019 11:46 am, Wolf Berg via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,
can one get Waterfox 2019 classic outside the Git I mean get it from the Waterfox website or only from git in the moment?
Greetings, Wolfram

Robert Kingett schrieb:

Woot! I can stick with waterfox classic for a little while longer! Although, maintaining 2 browsers seems like a hue task, so I am highly questionable of the life of waterfox classic.



Re: waterfox new version scheme

 

Hi,
can one get Waterfox 2019 classic outside the Git I mean get it from the Waterfox website or only from git in the moment?
Greetings, Wolfram

Robert Kingett schrieb:

Woot! I can stick with waterfox classic for a little while longer! Although, maintaining 2 browsers seems like a hue task, so I am highly questionable of the life of waterfox classic.



Re: Are web applications that accessible?

 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 04:27 AM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
I'm convinced that web developers don't really think about accessibility unless they are reminded that not all users have a mouse or a screen to browse the web.
And it's not just web developers.   There has been great improvement in recent years in designing in accessibility, and accessibility issues are now identified in academic programs in computer science, but it will be years until programmers trained to think about accessibility as a "natural part" of programming have taken over the programming world and old code is slowly but surely replaced.

It is always worthwhile to point out accessibility issues since, as you note, some have never thought about them at all.  Consciousness raising is worth doing, if for no other reason than what may be produced in the future by those who had never had accessibility as a consideration in the past.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Capturing computer audio

Arlene
 

If you use Audacity or other programs to capture Audio. Wil any screen reader be heard in the back ground?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: October 15, 2019 4:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

Audacity is good at this. They have a tutorial page that instructs on how to do

it:

 

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/tutorial_recording_computer_playback_on_windows.html

 

Luke

 

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019, Sile via Groups.Io wrote:

 

> What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send

> feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send them

> the audio output.

 

 

 


Re: waterfox new version scheme

 

Woot! I can stick with waterfox classic for a little while longer! Although, maintaining 2 browsers seems like a hue task, so I am highly questionable of the life of waterfox classic.


waterfox new version scheme

 

Hi all.

Well, its began.

Waterfox as we know it is no more.

There are 2 branches of waterfox.

Currently in beta is what is called waterfox current.

This branch is the main branch, using quantom engine, modern extentions and the like.

Waterfox classic is the old waterfox we know and love.

It will never be updated with any new features, but will be maintained with security and library updates.

Thats ok to.


Re: Capturing computer audio

 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 10:59 AM, Sile wrote:
There’s absolutely no page structuring a no links or buttons are even visible to the screen reader let alone accessible.
Sadly, and not just in regard to accessibility issues, it's most often on the user's shoulders to convince the software/webpage maker that an issue exists.

Another of those, 'twas ever thus situations.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Capturing computer audio

Sile
 

I would normally agree, but the issue on this page is so obvious… The only way to interact with the nest thermostat is through a graphic. There’s absolutely no page structuring a no links or buttons are even visible to the screen reader let alone accessible.


On Oct 15, 2019, at 10:32 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM, Sile wrote:
But my first tack is to write back to ask google why, when they have a fully staffed accessibility unit, they are asking me to test the accessibility of a product they own (the nest thermostat) on a browser they built (chrome).
Because, as I've said before about many issues, most of them are idiosyncratic to the machine in question.   They may not even be able to reproduce your issue, so if you want them to look at it then it's up to you to submit samples.   That's the way it works.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Capturing computer audio

 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM, Sile wrote:
But my first tack is to write back to ask google why, when they have a fully staffed accessibility unit, they are asking me to test the accessibility of a product they own (the nest thermostat) on a browser they built (chrome).
Because, as I've said before about many issues, most of them are idiosyncratic to the machine in question.   They may not even be able to reproduce your issue, so if you want them to look at it then it's up to you to submit samples.   That's the way it works.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Capturing computer audio

Sile
 

Thanks, this is great.


But my first tack is to write back to ask google why, when they have a fully staffed accessibility unit, they are asking me to test the accessibility of a product they own (the nest thermostat) on a browser they built (chrome).


--Sile

On 2019-10-15 7:49 a.m., Luke Davis wrote:
Audacity is good at this. They have a tutorial page that instructs on how to do it:

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/tutorial_recording_computer_playback_on_windows.html

Luke

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019, Sile via Groups.Io wrote:

What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send them the audio output.


Re: Capturing computer audio

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Hi, speaking about Virtual Recorder, I couldn't find the link to download it.
Even the link found from google search seemed to be broken.
 

Sarah k Alawami 於 15/10/2019 19:39 寫道:

You can also use OBS as well. then remux the vid into mp3. I hope hat helps a bit.

On Oct 15, 2019, at 1:28 AM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:



Hi

Virtual recorder can be set so you can control it using shortcut keycommands and do not have to have the interface visible.  You can record your voice and NVDA simultaneously if your machine has a microphone, so you could switchh VR on from within the web page you want to navigate then comment on what you are doing as you go.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 October 2019 01:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

I should add that I didn't notice that this message is on the NVDA list, so I won't get into a detailed discussion here. 

 

I will say, however, because this is NVDA related, that you may find that NVDA annoyingly reads all the Virtual Recorder controls when you first open the program and you can't stop it.  Aside frm that time wasting annoyance, NVDA works well with the program.

 

Also, I'm using a quite old version of NVDA and I'm using a modified version of the program.  You're results may differ.  But I wanted those who use the program not to think it is unusable if they see this behavior.

 

Gene. 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 7:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

If you only want to do this one time for one situation and have no general interest in recording, do you have anything like a digital recorder or a tape recorder you can use? 

 

The easiest way, using a computer program might well be a program called Virtual Recorder.  But you can't edit with the program and if you care about that, if you have something like a digital recorder, that would be easier if you know how to edit with it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:58 PM

Subject: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile





NVDA picks-up blank word after every button click #NVAccess

vaishnavi.kyamaji@...
 

When I access any button on my website, the button name along with the 'blank' word is being read by the NVDA.
This is resolved when I disable browser mode using NVDA settings.

But now the whole document name is being read each time I access the button which is not expected.
Please provide an alternative to resolve this issue.


Re: Capturing computer audio

Luke Davis
 

Audacity is good at this. They have a tutorial page that instructs on how to do it:

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/tutorial_recording_computer_playback_on_windows.html

Luke

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019, Sile via Groups.Io wrote:

What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send them the audio output.


Re: Capturing computer audio

Sarah k Alawami
 

You can also use OBS as well. then remux the vid into mp3. I hope hat helps a bit.

On Oct 15, 2019, at 1:28 AM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:



Hi

Virtual recorder can be set so you can control it using shortcut keycommands and do not have to have the interface visible.  You can record your voice and NVDA simultaneously if your machine has a microphone, so you could switchh VR on from within the web page you want to navigate then comment on what you are doing as you go.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 October 2019 01:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

I should add that I didn't notice that this message is on the NVDA list, so I won't get into a detailed discussion here. 

 

I will say, however, because this is NVDA related, that you may find that NVDA annoyingly reads all the Virtual Recorder controls when you first open the program and you can't stop it.  Aside frm that time wasting annoyance, NVDA works well with the program.

 

Also, I'm using a quite old version of NVDA and I'm using a modified version of the program.  You're results may differ.  But I wanted those who use the program not to think it is unusable if they see this behavior.

 

Gene. 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 7:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

If you only want to do this one time for one situation and have no general interest in recording, do you have anything like a digital recorder or a tape recorder you can use? 

 

The easiest way, using a computer program might well be a program called Virtual Recorder.  But you can't edit with the program and if you care about that, if you have something like a digital recorder, that would be easier if you know how to edit with it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:58 PM

Subject: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile




Re: Editing mp3 tags With NVDA simple in windows 10

Josh Kennedy
 

Maybe the mp3 you are trying to edit is protected with some sort of drm? Mine were converted with pizera audio converter. The edit fields for my mp3 files were not read-only. They were certainly editable. 


Re: Capturing computer audio

Chris Mullins
 

Hi

Virtual recorder can be set so you can control it using shortcut keycommands and do not have to have the interface visible.  You can record your voice and NVDA simultaneously if your machine has a microphone, so you could switchh VR on from within the web page you want to navigate then comment on what you are doing as you go.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 October 2019 01:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

I should add that I didn't notice that this message is on the NVDA list, so I won't get into a detailed discussion here. 

 

I will say, however, because this is NVDA related, that you may find that NVDA annoyingly reads all the Virtual Recorder controls when you first open the program and you can't stop it.  Aside frm that time wasting annoyance, NVDA works well with the program.

 

Also, I'm using a quite old version of NVDA and I'm using a modified version of the program.  You're results may differ.  But I wanted those who use the program not to think it is unusable if they see this behavior.

 

Gene. 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 7:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

If you only want to do this one time for one situation and have no general interest in recording, do you have anything like a digital recorder or a tape recorder you can use? 

 

The easiest way, using a computer program might well be a program called Virtual Recorder.  But you can't edit with the program and if you care about that, if you have something like a digital recorder, that would be easier if you know how to edit with it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:58 PM

Subject: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

 

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile




Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

I think contacting the owner to report accessibility bugs can be done by anyone, and should be done whenever possible.  The most important reasons are that fixing the accessibility error will fix for everyone at the same time.  And the web developer will know about it.  I'm convinced that web developers don't really think about accessibility unless they are reminded that not all users have a mouse or a screen to browse the web.  So with the web developer's knowledge, updates to the web application will hopefully maintain the fix, whereas a way to script NVDA will probably not work the next time the web app updates... and web apps, as a rule, tend to update a lot and without warning or notices, which for us certainly adds to the fun.  It might not be easy to reach the web developer, but whenever possible I prefer to send a rather long and descriptive accessibility report. Sometimes it works.  Often they promise fixes that never come and I feel like sending reminders a year or so later.  Sometimes I get no answer.  But let's focus on the ones that actually update in a positive way!  Besides, I pointed out web apps are trendy these days, but accessibility is gaining some weigh too and web developers feel like they have less ground refusing their help whenever we ask them.


Vincent

On 10/13/2019 4:39 AM, Sean Murphy wrote:
If the web app you are using is independent of a browser. In other word is self-contained browser like skype, Visual Code Editor and others. Then what is available to you is very restrictive. As the screen reader is fully dependent on what is revealed by this style of app via the accessibility framework like UIA, MSAA or iaccess2. If you cannot write a plugin, then you will have very limited access to available information.

If the app is usable in any browser, then you have more flexibility and there are extension based upon Javascript that permits you to modify the web page. You require knowledge in JavaScript languages to modify the page.

A general overview how web pages regardless if they are stand-alone apps or uses any web browser work:
* the web page is loaded.
* The DOM is populated (Document Object Model).
* the accessibility tree of the browser is populated which has the required information for a assistive technology product.
* The accessibility API (framework) like UIA is populated by the browser.
* the screen reader then interrogates the accessibility API or the browser directly.
There is more complexity to what I have outlined above. But this gives a general overview how information flows.


NVDA might be able to get more information but you need to learn python, the accessibility API and possibly a bunch of other API information to get the information you want. A major learning curve for yourself. Where it would be far cost effective for your energy and time to reach out to the owner of the product to make the require changes.

Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Damien Garwood
Sent: Sunday, 13 October 2019 7:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

Hi Robert,
Those are actually very interesting questions. I have theories, but that's all they are. I'm sure someone who is more expert on this topic will correct me if it turns out I'm wrong, which I'm sure I probably am.
The simple answer first. Announcements for several document elements (table headers, clickable items, links, headings etc) can be enabled or disabled through the document formatting section of the settings dialog.
Other than that, the only way to really customise what is spoken by NVDA (such as changing control type text, changing spoken order etc) is through scripting.
Now for my theories. Scripting web app enhancements with NVDA wouldn't be as simple as making an app module for several reasons.
1. NVDA has its own internal stuff that allows it to do its browse/focus mode thing. This could interfere with web apps that you might think can be scripted as app modules (those packaged as executables like Skype and so on).
2. The web browser is just a host for the app, and so I'm guessing NVDA can't get to it the same way it gets to a standard desktop control. Even apps packaged as their own executables like Skype are actually using Chrome/Chromium/whatever it's called these days.
3. Bear in mind that different browsers have different rules for rendering controls and information, and so unfortunately it wouldn't be a uniform process.
Having said that. There are several accessibility API's that NVDA has, over the years, managed to smack under one umbrella. So I'm guessing that's only a matter of time before the same can be done for web browsers, and eventually, web apps.
As for profiles. My guess is that those can be used in the normal way for web apps that come as executables, but would be difficult to set up for external websites, for similar reasons. The profile would be triggered by the browser, not the app itself.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 12/10/2019 07:21 pm, Robert Logue wrote:
1: Is it difficult for users to script NVDA for web applications?


2: Is there a standard way to customize what is spoken?


3: Does NVDA have a way to set up individual profiles for each web
application?


Thanks.


Bob


On 2019-10-07 8:51 a.m., Gene wrote:
So, how do you skip all that? I don't use GMail on the Internet
except to look at the spam filter now and then. I am not familiar
with the supplied short cuts. But any time you want to jump from
message to message, typing x in browse mode takes you to the check
box for the next message. You hear, as I recall, the subject line
and the name of the sender.
But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that
they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training
materials being widely used.
The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused
feature. What is the last consistent line before the message text,
or the synopsis, begins? Find it by looking from the check box down
on more than one message. You will see a pattern.
Do a search for that line and you can then do the following:
x to move to the next message.
Repeat search, you have already searched once by entering the search
string, then down arrow once and read to end.
After you do this enough to have it become second nature, it will be
reasonably fast and efficient.
You can't be a good Internet user in more complex areas of a web page
if you rely on what I refer to as "the kindness of strangers.", as is
famously said by a character in A Street Car Named Desire.
The number of blind people, even those who are generally good
computer users, who don't know how to do what I'm describing is clear
evidence of the inadequate and poor training received.
I don't use web applications enough to discuss the general questions
presented here, but GMail isn't a web application in the sense that
Google Docx (spelling) is. It is a layout but you aren't working
with an application embedded in the page.
And you will see lots of times when doing things such as I describe
is important for efficient navigation.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Devin Prater <mailto:r.d.t.prater@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2019 8:44 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

On no, it says “Reply, reply all, forward…” all that, even if you use
the keyboard commands to move to the next or previous message.

On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:14 AM, Hope Williamson <hopeisjoyful@gmail.com
<mailto:hopeisjoyful@gmail.com>> wrote:
There's no reason to leave out normal header information. In other
words, the sender, date, time, and the fact that it's from you. If
it's like the IP you're referring to, then that's different.





Re: Capturing computer audio

Gene
 

I should add that I didn't notice that this message is on the NVDA list, so I won't get into a detailed discussion here. 
 
I will say, however, because this is NVDA related, that you may find that NVDA annoyingly reads all the Virtual Recorder controls when you first open the program and you can't stop it.  Aside frm that time wasting annoyance, NVDA works well with the program.
 
Also, I'm using a quite old version of NVDA and I'm using a modified version of the program.  You're results may differ.  But I wanted those who use the program not to think it is unusable if they see this behavior.
 
Gene. 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

If you only want to do this one time for one situation and have no general interest in recording, do you have anything like a digital recorder or a tape recorder you can use? 
 
The easiest way, using a computer program might well be a program called Virtual Recorder.  But you can't edit with the program and if you care about that, if you have something like a digital recorder, that would be easier if you know how to edit with it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:58 PM
Subject: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile





Re: Capturing computer audio

Gene
 

If you only want to do this one time for one situation and have no general interest in recording, do you have anything like a digital recorder or a tape recorder you can use? 
 
The easiest way, using a computer program might well be a program called Virtual Recorder.  But you can't edit with the program and if you care about that, if you have something like a digital recorder, that would be easier if you know how to edit with it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:58 PM
Subject: [nvda] Capturing computer audio

Hello


What is the easiest way to capture the audio from NVDA - I have to send
feedback on a webpage to Google and they asked me to navigate and send
them the audio output.


Thanks,


--Sile