Date   

Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

           A quick addendum, I don't know how the letter A following a Roman numeral will end up being pronounced, as that's based on the synthesizer, so you may get ah or you may get A.  I just can't be sure.  I think letters B through Z are more likely to be read as the character itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

Below is the list of 10 regular expressions, followed by what you use for the replacement, that you need to enter in your speech dictionary in the order listed.  I emphasize again: in the order listed.

This is important because I believe (and am waiting for confirmation) that the speech dictionary (or any dictionary) has its entries processed in order, and on the first match the replacement is passed to the synthesizer and the processing for that "word/character cluster" stops.  If you had the entry for Roman numeral one first, it would snag Roman numerals 4, 3, and 2 incorrectly since all of them are composed of a collection of capital Is.

In addition, I am going to presume from your example that all of these Roman numeral, with possible optional letter, sequences must have a colon after the last character of the sequence with no space between the two.  If there is no colon then the match will not work, and that's by design, as I do not want the pronoun I to be captured as Roman numeral one.

If you want the word "Roman" or something else in front of the individual characters of the numeral before they're read out one by one then stick that in front of the first character of the replacement string.  I just went for the individual letters making up the numeral, along with the letter following it, if that letter is present.

The regular expressions all start with a backslash and end with a question mark.  The replacement strings all end with backslash one (the digit 1).  When working with the dictionary to add entries, the regular expression goes in the Pattern edit box, the replacement string in the Replacement box, and the Type radio button must be set to regular expression.

\s?IIII([a-z])?:\s?    I I I I \1
 
\s?III([a-z])?:\s?    I I I \1
 
\s?II([a-z])?:\s?    I I \1
 
\s?I([a-z])?:\s?    I \1
 
\s?IV([a-z])?:\s?    I V \1
 
\s?VIII([a-z])?:\s?    V I I I \1
 
\s?VII([a-z])?:\s?    V I I \1
 
\s?VI([a-z])?:\s?    V I \1
 
\s?V([a-z])?:\s?    V \1
 
\s?IX([a-z])?:\s?    I X \1
 
\s?X([a-z])?:\s?    X \1


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons, as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be valuable.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

        Thanks.  I'll post what you need to use a bit later this evening.  I will only ask this one time again, are the letters after the numeral limited to a certain set?  If not, I'll look for lowercase A through lowercase Z, but if it should only be A through F (or something similar) let me know.  That's very easy to tweak.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,
-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed:  using the speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to catch only what you want.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Janet Brandly
 

Hi Brian,

 

Yes, the Roman numerals must be in upper case. Some examples of Roman numerals combined with letters and Arabic numbers are:

 

â Schatzker III: Depression only of lateral tibial plateau (two types):

Schatzker IIIa: Lateral depression.

Schatzker IIIb: Central depression.  

 

Less often, Roman numerals may also be followed by lower-case letters or Arabic numbers.

 

Thanks again for your help. Maybe this could benefit others as well.

 

Janet

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 7, 2020 2:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

           I believe I understand what you're saying about the character afterward, but would you mind tossing out a couple of examples.  Particularly, if the character(s) that can come after the Roman numeral are limited to a select few.

           Also, can the Roman numerals be either upper case or lower case letters for the numeral, or strictly one or the other?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: NVDA and Microsoft Office Outlook 2003

 

Raymond,

          Count me among those who say, "Update to Office 2016, 2019, or 365 slightly quicker than you'd planned."

           You also have the option of changing over to other well-known and well-supported-under-NVDA e-mail clients and office suites.  For example, Thunderbird and Libre Office, respectively.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


NVDA and Microsoft Office Outlook 2003

Raymond Brough
 

Hello Folks
 
Approximately 2 months ago I commenced using NVDA, currently version 2020.3.  Within a couple of weeks of this I subscribed to this group and this is my first post.
 
I am in the midst of having the software on my desktop and laptop computers upgraded / changed and, to spread the learning curve and disruption,  have opted to carry this out in 2 phases. 
 
Firstly, I upgraded to Windows-10, Firefox and Google chrome, and changed to using NVDA.  Previously I was using Windows-7, Internet Explorer 11 and JAWS.
 
Secondly, and imminent, I will be upgrading to Microsoft 365 from Microsoft Office 2003.  Prior to doing so, there are several tasks I would like to complete.  Unsurprisingly, bearing in mind the age of Microsoft Office 2003, I am experiencing some difficulties but finding work arounds for or tolerating the vast majority of them.  However, their is one which is proving extremely frustrating in respect of Outlook 2003!
 
When reading back and forth through an HTML or Plain Text e-mail thread using the 4 arrow keys, when I read some e-mail addresses in the second most recent message in the thread, or messages prior to this, NVDA often stops speaking and my computer freezes.  It appears the only way to get out of this is to relaunch NVDA:
Windows Key+r nvda Enter.
 
After relaunching NVDA, when I alt+tab, all of the applications / messages / files etc. I was working with / on are still open.  However, when the message causing the problem is highlighted I have to quickly tap the End Key or Ctrl+Home to take the cursor away from the e-mail address causing the problem, otherwise, failure to do this quickly enough will result in a reoccurrence of NVDA being silenced and the computer freezing.
 
When I invoke continuous read,
NVDA Key+Down Arrow
the e-mail thread is read back without a problem!
 
The problem occasionally occurs when using Microsoft Office Word 2003.  When reading some, not all, e-mail addresses in a file.
 
If there is a solution to the problem I would be pleased to read about it.  However, I suspect I may be advised / told to upgrade to Microsoft Office 365 slightly quicker than I planned.
 
I have searched for a solution in the NVDA manual and on the website, and also carried out an internet search.  It appears NVDA will support elements of Microsoft Office from version 2010 to 365.
 
I look forward to your replies.  In anticipation, many thanks.
 
Raymond Brough - slowly shedding his dinosaur clothes
 
 
 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

This could be made much easier, and possibly adding this ability would be useful to others in different contexts.

You can now tell the dictionary to recognize the item anywhere, whole word, or regular expression. There should be an option for something like only exactly as written. In other words, if I wrote a Roman Numeral, placed a space before and after it, and made it case sensative, that would minimize the number of times it would be recognized by the dictionary. The system wouldn't be perfect. You would have to not have the letter capital I alone recognized as something to be spoken as a numeral. But the listener could know without any trouble when it is meant as a Roman numeral. I don't think there would be any other such cases. It may be that adding the exactly as written only option wouldn't help many users, perhaps it would require too much work to implement to be justified, given all the other things developers might work on and the time versus benefit ratio. But perhaps this would be easy and would benefit many people. Maybe it would benefit people in other contexts than just Roman numerals that I don't know about. Whatever the case, this might be something worth discussing.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 3:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

Janet,

Just to be crystal clear, we're talking the following Roman numerals, which I will put spaces between each character for the purposes of this post so that they get read character by character:
I one
I I two
I I I three
I V four
V five
V I six
V I I seven
V I I I eight
I X nine
X ten

You don't want or need something like X V I read for sixteen?

It's very easy to come up with a couple of short regular expressions that can handle the Roman numerals for the numbers one through ten. It's a lot more difficult if you wanted it to handle any Roman numeral, e.g, 2020 written out as M M X X, or 1959 as M C M L I X

If all you want is one through 10 I'll toss together the regexes and replacement strings and post them for you to add to your speech dictionary. I will also presume that any of these Roman numerals will have a preceding space and space after unless they are located as the start of a line or end of a line.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

           I believe I understand what you're saying about the character afterward, but would you mind tossing out a couple of examples.  Particularly, if the character(s) that can come after the Roman numeral are limited to a select few.

           Also, can the Roman numerals be either upper case or lower case letters for the numeral, or strictly one or the other?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Janet Brandly
 

Hi again Brian,

 

That’s right, these are the only Roman numerals I need NVDA to speak. There would always be a space preceding the numeral; however, occasionally (perhaps 5 to 10% of the time) there would either be a letter or Arabic  number directly after the Roman numeral, without a space. I am using these numbers/numerals for things like fracture and cancer staging/grading.

 

Thanks so much for your help,

 

Janet

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 7, 2020 2:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

          Just to be crystal clear, we're talking the following Roman numerals, which I will put spaces between each character for the purposes of this post so that they get read character by character:
I one
I I two
I I I three
I V four
V five
V I six
V I I seven
V I I I  eight  
I X  nine
X ten

You don't want or need something like X V I read for sixteen?

It's very easy to come up with a couple of short regular expressions that can handle the Roman numerals for the numbers one through ten.  It's a lot more difficult if you wanted it to handle any Roman numeral, e.g, 2020 written out as M M X X, or 1959 as M C M L I X

If all you want is one through 10 I'll toss together the regexes and replacement strings and post them for you to add to your speech dictionary.  I will also presume that any of these Roman numerals will have a preceding space and space after unless they are located as the start of a line or end of a line.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

          Just to be crystal clear, we're talking the following Roman numerals, which I will put spaces between each character for the purposes of this post so that they get read character by character:
I one
I I two
I I I three
I V four
V five
V I six
V I I seven
V I I I  eight  
I X  nine
X ten

You don't want or need something like X V I read for sixteen?

It's very easy to come up with a couple of short regular expressions that can handle the Roman numerals for the numbers one through ten.  It's a lot more difficult if you wanted it to handle any Roman numeral, e.g, 2020 written out as M M X X, or 1959 as M C M L I X

If all you want is one through 10 I'll toss together the regexes and replacement strings and post them for you to add to your speech dictionary.  I will also presume that any of these Roman numerals will have a preceding space and space after unless they are located as the start of a line or end of a line.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Janet Brandly
 

Hello Brian and all,

 

I would just need NVDA to spell out Roman numerals for Arabic numbers 1 through 10.

 

Thanks,

 

Janet

\

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 6, 2020 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

         Depending on just how elaborate you want to get with this, it could be achieved in the speech dictionary using regular expression matching based on characters that can only be used in a Roman numeral.  But given how long they can get, and the rules regarding what can come before what, there's likely only a "quick and dirty" solution rather than a perfect one.

         I am presuming you want the Roman numeral (RN) seven to read as V I I or RN 900 to be read as M C M.  Is that correct and, if so, is there some expected range of the actual Roman notation as far as lowest and highest numbers involved?   
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: New Video: NVDA in Russia

CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...>
 

Hi all.

Tony, this link work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITIWKgoI2Dw&feature=emb_title

Regards.

 

 

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Músico (pianista) y ayuda a usuarios ciegos y con discapacidad visual, con el uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.

Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

 

Musician (pianist) and also help to the blind people with the use of screen readers and technology.

Certified expert in the screen reader NVDA.

Certified expert in NVDA

 

De: Tony Malykh
Enviado: sábado, 7 de noviembre de 2020 13:38
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] New Video: NVDA in Russia

 

The video doesn't seem to be available. When I clicked on the link, it says:

This video has been removed by the uploader

 

On 11/5/2020 2:07 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

I wanted to share a video we've just uploaded:

 

Prominent Russian #accessibility expert, Anatoliy Popko shares his experiences advocating for #A11y & the projects he is involved in, including putting IT trainers across Russia through NVDA Certification so they can teach blind users IT skills with NVDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o83mo-sSQNQ

 

At 17 minutes, it's longer than some of our other videos, but a fascinating story, and highlights some great work being done in Russia.

 

Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 


Re: New Video: NVDA in Russia

Tony Malykh
 

The video doesn't seem to be available. When I clicked on the link, it says:

This video has been removed by the uploader


On 11/5/2020 2:07 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

I wanted to share a video we've just uploaded:

Prominent Russian #accessibility expert, Anatoliy Popko shares his experiences advocating for #A11y & the projects he is involved in, including putting IT trainers across Russia through NVDA Certification so they can teach blind users IT skills with NVDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o83mo-sSQNQ

At 17 minutes, it's longer than some of our other videos, but a fascinating story, and highlights some great work being done in Russia.

Quentin.
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: character count countdown with edit box

 

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM, Gene wrote:
many users or those it affects who might submit one don't know what the problem is and so don't create a ticket.
-
Which is often the case.  And one that I hope, over time, with encouragement from the membership here, and leading by example, will change.

I don't want to see the folks at NVAccess be flooded with repeat bug reports or feature requests, so not only does careful thought need to go into why you believe you have a bug and how you need to report it, or how to carefully word a feature request, but also one must search first to see if it doesn't already exist, in which case you'd just add a comment to the existing one.  Bug reports are relatively rare, and you have to make sure you have the steps down such that the developers can reproduce the issue before filing one.  

But NVDA users are blessed by the fact that they do have a direct line to the developers via GitHub.  That is an unbelievably valuable, and rare, asset and communication channel.  It shouldn't be used frivolously (for lack of a better way of putting it right now) but nor should it be avoided when you can be giving valuable feedback not only for yourself but for the user community as a whole.

I only wish such existed for most of the software I've ever used, but it doesn't.  Microsoft has stepped somewhat closer with the Feedback Hub, but even that's at several levels of removal from the actual development teams.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: character count countdown with edit box

Gene
 

I may create a ticket. I'm a bit surprised that it has never been brought up. Maybe it doesn't affect that many users or those it affects who might submit one don't know what the problem is and so don't create a ticket.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] character count countdown with edit box

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 11:42 AM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have a turn off aria alerts setting. it should.-
And there does not, at least from my search results on ARIA and a couple of other search terms, appear to be a suggestion/feature request for this in GitHub.

There's lots of stuff involving ARIA, going back a number of years, but nothing suggesting a toggle for ARIA alerts.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: character count countdown with edit box

 

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 11:42 AM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have a turn off aria alerts setting. it should.
-
And there does not, at least from my search results on ARIA and a couple of other search terms, appear to be a suggestion/feature request for this in GitHub.

There's lots of stuff involving ARIA, going back a number of years, but nothing suggesting a toggle for ARIA alerts.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: character count countdown with edit box

Gene
 

NVDA doesn't have a turn off aria alerts setting. it should. If a site is programmed incorrectly, aria speecch can be very disruptive.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Randall
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 10:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] character count countdown with edit box



I think this sort of announcement is triggered by ARIA alerts and I’m not aware of a way to stop NVDA reading those as a matter of course. Some websites really abuse alerts, perhaps with developers not understanding the purpose of the feature.



I’d love an addon that allowed you to mark specific web-page elements to alert or not as the user wanted on-the-fly, there are probably more sites who don’t use ARIA at all than overuse it, but both cases are frustrating.

S.



From: Gene
Sent: 07 November 2020 1:21 22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] character count countdown with edit box






I've never seen the dynamic content setting affect what is read in browse
mode.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2020 5:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] character count countdown with edit box

Could this be in any way related to whether you have the "dynamic content"
setting on?

NVDA+N,P,S, then the "Object Presentation" pane, checkbox for Report dynamic
content changes? (Default is ON/checked)
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn











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locked Re: Looking for forums or mailing list for visually impaired gamers

 

This is absolutely a Chat Subgroup class of topic.  I hope the single recommendation will prove to be sufficient, but if not, start the topic again in the Chat Subgroup.

This topic is now locked.
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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

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