it has been requested and shut down many times. For some reason the developer seem to think it’s impossible to add this functionality to NVDA, even though many other screen readers have had graphics labeling for years. Kind of annoying but what can you do?

On Nov 15, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:



Submit a suggestion over github, I doubt it will pass as AI costs money, which most of us do not have.

Take care

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 15 Nov 2020, at 7:45, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I posted two or three issues already over the past several years and nothing has been done about adding a graphics labeler or an object labeler or a frames manager to NVDA for making an ad on to do so. I think that NVDA should start to get away from scripting, and start using artificial intelligence and neural engine technology such as is used in the new voiceover for iOS 14. That way NVDA could start to read more things automatically and would rely less on scripting which can easily break when an application version changes The only other screen meter that I know of which used a primitive kind of artificial intelligence to read the screen in which not which did not rely on scripts was ASAP, automatic screen access program for Microsoft DOS made by micro talk. that screen reader was discontinued at around the year 2000 because windows took over. But for its time it was the best screen reader for DOS, or the disk operating system operating system which was available and which was ever made. I hope soon that somebody will at least make an ad on for NVDA which will use the free tensorflow neural Engine technology to allow NVDA to intelligently read the screen even if buttons and other controls may not be accessible in the standard way using standard accessibility measures. Voiceover for iOS can do this even if buttons and other objects are directly drawn onto the screen it can still identify them using artificial intelligence technology. It is amazing! I hope NVDA could do something similar in the future.

Have you looked for text that repeats at the end of each message before a
new one begins? There may be something you can search for that is reliable.

I haven't used the archives much but that is often what I look for in such
situations.

I don't have much opinions about headings, I'd have to look at the page
layout to see if something looks useful enough to be a possibly desirable
way to move.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: David Kingsbury
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:57 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Use of Headings, or Rather Lack Thereof, in Groups.IO
Discussion Lists



Hi all,



I have come to really value the various Groups.IO lists related to
accessibility, including this one. However, one thing that has always irked

me is how clunky and inefficient navigation is on the web pages where you
access discussion strings on individual topics. Other than a single level 4

heading just above the initial question, there is no use of headings for
replies. Appropriate use of headings here would significantly enable more
efficient navigation by screen reader users.



Previously, I had a few workarounds on web pages for reading through
discussions. If using Edge, I could put it in immersive reader view and that

helped. But with the newest version of Windows 10, immersive reader seems to

have disappeared for some pages and remained for others. I even figured out

that I could search for the number sign with Control F and then F3 to get to

the top of each response because each one used to start with a message
number, but no longer. So now, I am stuck endlessly down arrowing through
the discussions. This is a very inefficient way to navigate web pages.



I emailed the Groups. IO tech support people with this concern several
months ago and they never responded. Because I had figured out some personal

workarounds, and this is a free service, so I suppose you get what you pay
for, I never made a second attempt to contact them. But my workarounds no
longer work, and navigation is very tedious.



I am sure that those who run Groups.IO are people of goodwill. I imagine too

that they are unaware that well-placed insertion of headings greatly
facilitates navigation by screen reader users.



So, a couple of questions. Should list administrators contact the Groups.IO

developers with this concern to ask that they make better use of headings on

the web pages? Or if others on this list agree that better use of headings
would greatly improve our ability to use Groups.IO more efficiently, is
there a way we can advocate as a group, versus sending the occasional
solitary email complaint that ultimately goes unanswered?



Ideally, on the web pages, each original question and the responses would be

tagged with a heading. On the daily digest, “New topics” and “new replies”
would both have headings. However, adding headings to the web pages is the
biggest priority.



I want to emphasize that I wouldn’t expend time on this if I didn’t value
the service. It is an excellent resource. But that doesn’t mean there is no

room for improvement.



Thanks to all who support asking that they do something about this. Also,
sorry in advance for any inconvenience to you because I am sending this
message to several lists, so you may see some repetition.



Regards,

David

it has been requested and shut down many times. For some reason the developer seem to think it’s impossible to add this functionality to NVDA, even though many other screen readers have had graphics labeling for years. Kind of annoying but what can you do?

On Nov 15, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:



Submit a suggestion over github, I doubt it will pass as AI costs money, which most of us do not have.

Take care

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 15 Nov 2020, at 7:45, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I posted two or three issues already over the past several years and nothing has been done about adding a graphics labeler or an object labeler or a frames manager to NVDA for making an ad on to do so. I think that NVDA should start to get away from scripting, and start using artificial intelligence and neural engine technology such as is used in the new voiceover for iOS 14. That way NVDA could start to read more things automatically and would rely less on scripting which can easily break when an application version changes The only other screen meter that I know of which used a primitive kind of artificial intelligence to read the screen in which not which did not rely on scripts was ASAP, automatic screen access program for Microsoft DOS made by micro talk. that screen reader was discontinued at around the year 2000 because windows took over. But for its time it was the best screen reader for DOS, or the disk operating system operating system which was available and which was ever made. I hope soon that somebody will at least make an ad on for NVDA which will use the free tensorflow neural Engine technology to allow NVDA to intelligently read the screen even if buttons and other controls may not be accessible in the standard way using standard accessibility measures. Voiceover for iOS can do this even if buttons and other objects are directly drawn onto the screen it can still identify them using artificial intelligence technology. It is amazing! I hope NVDA could do something similar in the future.

Have you looked for text that repeats at the end of each message before a
new one begins? There may be something you can search for that is reliable.

I haven't used the archives much but that is often what I look for in such
situations.

I don't have much opinions about headings, I'd have to look at the page
layout to see if something looks useful enough to be a possibly desirable
way to move.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: David Kingsbury
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:57 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Use of Headings, or Rather Lack Thereof, in Groups.IO
Discussion Lists



Hi all,



I have come to really value the various Groups.IO lists related to
accessibility, including this one. However, one thing that has always irked

me is how clunky and inefficient navigation is on the web pages where you
access discussion strings on individual topics. Other than a single level 4

heading just above the initial question, there is no use of headings for
replies. Appropriate use of headings here would significantly enable more
efficient navigation by screen reader users.



Previously, I had a few workarounds on web pages for reading through
discussions. If using Edge, I could put it in immersive reader view and that

helped. But with the newest version of Windows 10, immersive reader seems to

have disappeared for some pages and remained for others. I even figured out

that I could search for the number sign with Control F and then F3 to get to

the top of each response because each one used to start with a message
number, but no longer. So now, I am stuck endlessly down arrowing through
the discussions. This is a very inefficient way to navigate web pages.



I emailed the Groups. IO tech support people with this concern several
months ago and they never responded. Because I had figured out some personal

workarounds, and this is a free service, so I suppose you get what you pay
for, I never made a second attempt to contact them. But my workarounds no
longer work, and navigation is very tedious.



I am sure that those who run Groups.IO are people of goodwill. I imagine too

that they are unaware that well-placed insertion of headings greatly
facilitates navigation by screen reader users.



So, a couple of questions. Should list administrators contact the Groups.IO

developers with this concern to ask that they make better use of headings on

the web pages? Or if others on this list agree that better use of headings
would greatly improve our ability to use Groups.IO more efficiently, is
there a way we can advocate as a group, versus sending the occasional
solitary email complaint that ultimately goes unanswered?



Ideally, on the web pages, each original question and the responses would be

tagged with a heading. On the daily digest, “New topics” and “new replies”
would both have headings. However, adding headings to the web pages is the
biggest priority.



I want to emphasize that I wouldn’t expend time on this if I didn’t value
the service. It is an excellent resource. But that doesn’t mean there is no

room for improvement.



Thanks to all who support asking that they do something about this. Also,
sorry in advance for any inconvenience to you because I am sending this
message to several lists, so you may see some repetition.



Regards,

David

On Nov 15, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:



Submit a suggestion over github, I doubt it will pass as AI costs money, which most of us do not have.

Take care

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 15 Nov 2020, at 7:45, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I posted two or three issues already over the past several years and nothing has been done about adding a graphics labeler or an object labeler or a frames manager to NVDA for making an ad on to do so. I think that NVDA should start to get away from scripting, and start using artificial intelligence and neural engine technology such as is used in the new voiceover for iOS 14. That way NVDA could start to read more things automatically and would rely less on scripting which can easily break when an application version changes The only other screen meter that I know of which used a primitive kind of artificial intelligence to read the screen in which not which did not rely on scripts was ASAP, automatic screen access program for Microsoft DOS made by micro talk. that screen reader was discontinued at around the year 2000 because windows took over. But for its time it was the best screen reader for DOS, or the disk operating system operating system which was available and which was ever made. I hope soon that somebody will at least make an ad on for NVDA which will use the free tensorflow neural Engine technology to allow NVDA to intelligently read the screen even if buttons and other controls may not be accessible in the standard way using standard accessibility measures. Voiceover for iOS can do this even if buttons and other objects are directly drawn onto the screen it can still identify them using artificial intelligence technology. It is amazing! I hope NVDA could do something similar in the future.

Jackie,

Thanks for this.  I'll play with it some over the coming days.  Right now
I'm doing this so I can tutor a dear friend of mine who's been using NVDA
(and JAWS before that) for decades now but for whom Google Voice is a new
thing.  Even though she's in her 80s, she's going strong, and these days is
doing a lot of work via phone that requires her to join various phone
conferences.  It is so much easier not to have to literally hold a phone
while working and also not to have to punch in numbers like the phone
numbers and conference access codes, but just to copy and paste them.

And, believe me, I know just exactly where you're coming from with regard to
the brain not having fully engaged without it's morning dose of coffee (and
morning can be any time of morning).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

*If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to
something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you
have a legal mind.*

~ Thomas Reed Powell

You would be better off contacting the developers and/or maintainers of a specific add-on in regard to collaborating with them to create a translation to be used with that software.

You are not likely to need to know how to program, as most situations where someone translates that's precisely what they're doing.  The developer then tucks those translations in to the structure that allows the end user to select a language (if the code was written with this idea in mind, or using templates with this idea in mind).

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

You would be better off contacting the developers and/or maintainers of a specific add-on in regard to collaborating with them to create a translation to be used with that software.

You are not likely to need to know how to program, as most situations where someone translates that's precisely what they're doing.  The developer then tucks those translations in to the structure that allows the end user to select a language (if the code was written with this idea in mind, or using templates with this idea in mind).

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell