1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
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New Video: NVDA in Russia

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share a video we've just uploaded:

Prominent Russian #accessibility expert, Anatoliy Popko shares his experiences advocating for #A11y & the projects he is involved in, including putting IT trainers across Russia through NVDA Certification so they can teach blind users IT skills with NVDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o83mo-sSQNQ

At 17 minutes, it's longer than some of our other videos, but a fascinating story, and highlights some great work being done in Russia.

Quentin.
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Re: Chrome forms with NVDA

Sean Randall
 

Hi Brian,

Sorry, I did mean an edit box in a form, but I was using google forms as an example, which is clearly confusing.

Most all web pages in Chrome with edit fields have this issue, an example is at duckduckgo.com. If I enter browse mode  in the search field on that page, I hear:

Search the web without being tracked  edit  overall type: UNKNOWN_TYPE server type: NO_SERVER_DATA heuristic type: UNKNOWN_TYPE label: Search the web without being tracked parseable name: q section: q_1-default field signature: 1012080445 form signature: 378668188462997795 form renderer id: 1 field renderer id: 10  Search the web without being tracked

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 04 November 2020 16:20
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Chrome forms with NVDA

 

Can you clarify what you mean by "Google Form"?  I don't think you're referring to an edit box in an online form under Chrome, but I'm not sure what it is you are referring to.

If a specific example can be supplied, that would be helpful, whether that's a URL or something else that could be worked with.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

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Re: Cannot get past, "please register this," when launching NVDA!

Robert Logue
 

I had this same problem.  It was the demo of Code Factory voices for NVDA add on. Plus, the trial of Code Factory SAPI voices.  I foolishly tried both then was away from my desktop PC for more than a month.


I don't like that kind of behavior in trial software.


I was not even able to use Narrator because that please register message was spoken every time I pressed any key.


Asked Microsoft disability answer desk for help through Be My Eyes on my iPhone to resolve this.


Turned out that Narrator was using the demo voice which has also timed out.


I don't know if I'd been able to fix my self without the help from MS


Bob

On 2020-10-23 10:32 a.m., Gene wrote:
The please register this must refer to a synthessizer that your NVDA is using.  If you get that message and the command NVDA key control r pressed three times rapidly, You may hold control and nvda key and type r quickly three times, doesn't restore NVDA to its defaults so the default synthesizer can run, then you may have to delete something else, such as your synthesizer or your NVDA settings so it will start using defaults.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Mike
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 8:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Cannot get past, "please register this," when launching NVDA!



Keep getting please register this when I launch NVDA. Cannot get to menus or anything else. I had old version of NVDA I removed. Then installed the latest NVDA. Did not help. Using windows 10, Also JAWS.

Any help appreciated.

Mike
Re: NVDA performance in remote or virtual environments

Adriani Botez
 

Sorry I was not clear enough. The dedicated ram for the vm is 8 gb

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 04.11.2020 um 23:40 schrieb Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com>:

To be honest, if you only have 8gb ram, that may be your issue.

You really need another 8 to work right.

Put 4gb to the ram or 3gb to your vm, and unload anything you don't need and try.

I wouldn't try unless you had more ram.

The cores will be fine, 2 cores to the vm should be plenty.

What you may want to do if you can on the vm is to see if you can get a 32 bit version or even reformat and install a 32 bit os on the laptop then you can dedicate about 3gb to the os and 5 to the vm or have a 32 bit vm and not a 64 bit vm.

You really need another 8gb at least.



On 5/11/2020 10:41 am, Adriani Botez wrote:
Thank you for the hints. Well, the laptop I am using for my work has definitely not 8 cores, it has only 4 and about 8 gb of ram. However, maybe there is some way to at least minimize the latency on the VM.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Tim M
Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. November 2020 00:15
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] NVDA performance in remote or virtual environments

For what your trying to do make sure the desk or laptop has enough power.

Your looking for CPU's with 8 or more cores and high thread if you go vertual
machine.

In either case make sure you have 32 gmb or better.The rest is what you like.

See vm's are power hogs and remotes can have lag. That is why you build for
power.

Then all you have is software issues.

On 10/29/2020 5:50 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
Dear all,

I thought I start a discussion here on the performance topic in remote
or virtual environments . . .





.
Re: NVDA performance in remote or virtual environments

Shaun Everiss
 

To be honest, if you only have 8gb ram, that may be your issue.

You really need another 8 to work right.

Put 4gb to the ram or 3gb to your vm, and unload anything you don't need and try.

I wouldn't try unless you had more ram.

The cores will be fine, 2 cores to the vm should be plenty.

What you may want to do if you can on the vm is to see if you can get a 32 bit version or even reformat and install a 32 bit os on the laptop then you can dedicate about 3gb to the os and 5 to the vm or have a 32 bit vm and not a 64 bit vm.

You really need another 8gb at least.

On 5/11/2020 10:41 am, Adriani Botez wrote:
Thank you for the hints. Well, the laptop I am using for my work has definitely not 8 cores, it has only 4 and about 8 gb of ram. However, maybe there is some way to at least minimize the latency on the VM.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Tim M
Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. November 2020 00:15
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] NVDA performance in remote or virtual environments

For what your trying to do make sure the desk or laptop has enough power.

Your looking for CPU's with 8 or more cores and high thread if you go vertual
machine.

In either case make sure you have 32 gmb or better.The rest is what you like.

See vm's are power hogs and remotes can have lag. That is why you build for
power.

Then all you have is software issues.

On 10/29/2020 5:50 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
Dear all,

I thought I start a discussion here on the performance topic in remote
or virtual environments . . .





.
Re: NVDA performance in remote or virtual environments

Adriani Botez
 

Thank you for the hints. Well, the laptop I am using for my work has definitely not 8 cores, it has only 4 and about 8 gb of ram. However, maybe there is some way to at least minimize the latency on the VM.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Tim M
Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. November 2020 00:15
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] NVDA performance in remote or virtual environments

For what your trying to do make sure the desk or laptop has enough power.

Your looking for CPU's with 8 or more cores and high thread if you go vertual
machine.

In either case make sure you have 32 gmb or better.The rest is what you like.

See vm's are power hogs and remotes can have lag. That is why you build for
power.

Then all you have is software issues.

On 10/29/2020 5:50 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
Dear all,

I thought I start a discussion here on the performance topic in remote
or virtual environments . . .
Re: NVDA Verbosity for Grouping and sorting messages in Outlook - Can it be changed?

Brian Vogel
 

Josh,

         I'll let others get into the verbosity settings that might be changed, as I can't answer that.  I am posting only because I have retitled your topic for archival purposes and to make it clear the question is about NVDA verbosity related to using Outlook, not Outlook itself.

         By the way to the readership, if it turns out that there are Outlook settings that can be tweaked to decrease NVDA's verbosity in a circumstance like this, that still counts to me as addressing the interaction between NVDA and the program.  But I suspect this will be fixed, to the extent it can be, via NVDA settings rather than any Outlook settings, though I could be wrong about that.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 
NVDA Verbosity for Grouping and sorting messages in Outlook - Can it be changed?

Josh Miele
 

Folks:

I'm looking for advice on reducing the verbosity of the message grouping info in Microsoft outlook.

As you navigate through messages, tasks, notes, or any other Outlook items that have been sorted and grouped, there is an extremely long announcement that happens whenever you transition from one group to another. Groups can be date ranges, priority flags, labels, etc. depending on how you've sorted your items. Sometimes the grouping info actually seems to be spoken twice which makes it even worse. The final frustration of the problem is that the relevant information about the newly selected Outlook item is spoken after the grouping information, which means you need to sit through a flood of overly-verbose and redundant TTS before you can get to the info ab out the current item.

For example, inbox messages are grouped by "today," "Yesterday," "last week," etc. If you're arrowing down through the message list, the info about each message is spoken as it is selected (e.g., subject, sender, arrival time, etc.). However, when you arrow from the first message of Today to the last message from Yesterday, NVDA speaks a bunch of info about the newly selected group before speaking the expected message info. Depending on the grouping and sorting criteria, this can be quite a bit of verbiage...

A relatively tame example of a grouping message is: "Group by: Expanded: Date: Yesterday grouping Group by: Expanded: Date: Yesterday Selected: Expanded" These messages can be much longer if you've sorted by criteria in addition to date.

Obviously we need access to the info about these groupings, but I find the way it's presented to be extremely frustrating. Can anybody tell me how to reduce this verbosity or to improve the user experience with this?

BTW, I recently installed the Outlook Extended add-on which is really cool. I was hoping the authors might have included some mechanism for managing this problem, but unfortunately not yet.

Best to all!

--JAM
Re: Chrome forms with NVDA

Brian Vogel
 

Can you clarify what you mean by "Google Form"?  I don't think you're referring to an edit box in an online form under Chrome, but I'm not sure what it is you are referring to.

If a specific example can be supplied, that would be helpful, whether that's a URL or something else that could be worked with.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 
Re: Drag and Drop

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

To clarify, it is up to add-on authors to ask for an add-on review should they wish to have their add-ons included on community add-ons website. Only after passing a set of basic review criteria (license and copyright, user experience, documentation, security) will the add-on be considered for distribution through the add-ons website (please note that even if other criteria passes, an add-on can still fail basic review if license is incompatible with NVDA’s, which is GNU GPL 2). There are one or two classes of add-ons that the community is quite hesitant to review based on past discussions on add-ons mailing list, including speech synthesizers (license issues).

Until recently it was hard to find documentation on add-on reviews, but now it is publicly more accessible:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/processes.en.html

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 7:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Drag and Drop

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 03:42 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:

The fact that an author doesn’t want his/her addon be listed on the NVDA addon page doesn’t make it unofficial.

-
It does to me.  If it's not vetted and "officially blessed," it's unofficial.  And that's all I'm trying to communicate.  People write all sorts of home-grown add-ons that are, and are very likely to remain, unofficial.  They will not be submitted for review/vetting and will never appear on the NVDA Community Add-Ons page.

Thus, they are unofficial.  That doesn't make them unsafe, substandard, or anything else.  But it is a way to note that you're not going to find them on the NVDA Community Add-Ons page.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 
Re: Drag and Drop

Brian Vogel
 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 03:42 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:
The fact that an author doesn’t want his/her addon be listed on the NVDA addon page doesn’t make it unofficial.
-
It does to me.  If it's not vetted and "officially blessed," it's unofficial.  And that's all I'm trying to communicate.  People write all sorts of home-grown add-ons that are, and are very likely to remain, unofficial.  They will not be submitted for review/vetting and will never appear on the NVDA Community Add-Ons page.

Thus, they are unofficial.  That doesn't make them unsafe, substandard, or anything else.  But it is a way to note that you're not going to find them on the NVDA Community Add-Ons page.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 
Chrome forms with NVDA

Sean Randall
 

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been brought up already, I had a quick search  but might have missed a thread.

 

With NVDA 2020.3 (and several earlier versions), plus  Chrome 86, whenever I enter certain form fields on the web I get a lot of extra  nonsense,

For example, when trying to add a description  to a Google Form, I hear:

Form description  edit  multi line  overall type: UNKNOWN_TYPE server type: NO_SERVER_DATA heuristic type: UNKNOWN_TYPE label: Form description parseable name: section: _1-default field signature: 4290505990 form signature: 1493917485352217957 form renderer id: 4294967295 field renderer id: 22  blank

 

I’d settle for the Form description  edit  multi line   bit!

 

It’s only a problem when I want to review the contents of a field, if it’s a single-line item and I don’t have Braille on the go it can be  very irritating to have to wait for all the speech to finish.

 

Has anyone seen this before, am I being really silly and missing something obvious?

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Re: Drag and Drop

Gene
 

All sorts of software is issued under the public license being discussed. That has nothing to do with whether it is an official NVDA add-on. An add-on is official if it has been reviewed and approved by those designated by NVDA developers to do so. It is reviewed for safety and effectiveness.

I'm not saying that unofficial add-ons shouldn't be used, but the user should be aware that add-ons can be used for malicious purposes so it is a good idea to know if the author(s) are trustworthy. If unknown, it would be a good idea to ask about them here. There are some add-ons that are illegal and if they are brought up here, discussion will be stopped by the moderator or owner because illegal software isn't allowed to be discussed on the list.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2020 2:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Drag and Drop



The term “unofficial” is misleading in the context of NVDA addons. Every NVDA addon that is released by an author following GPL copyright is official. The fact that an author doesn’t want his/her addon be listed on the NVDA addon page doesn’t make it unofficial.





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Mittwoch, 4. November 2020 06:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Drag and Drop





The DragAndDrop add-on by Javi Dominguez and collaborators is not an "official" add-on. It's managed under GitHub, like many unofficial add-ons are.

The latest version is 2.0.1dev and can be downloaded from this page: https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases/tag/2.0.1dev
The direct download link is: https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases/download/2.0.1dev/DragAndDrop-2.0.1dev.nvda-addon

I don't know anything about this add-on beyond what I've written here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn
Re: Drag and Drop

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

The term “unofficial” is misleading in the context of NVDA addons. Every NVDA addon that is released by an author following GPL copyright is official. The fact that an author doesn’t want his/her addon be listed on the NVDA addon page doesn’t make it unofficial.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Mittwoch, 4. November 2020 06:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Drag and Drop

 

The DragAndDrop add-on by Javi Dominguez and collaborators is not an "official" add-on.  It's managed under GitHub, like many unofficial add-ons are.

The latest version is 2.0.1dev and can be downloaded from this page:  https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases/tag/2.0.1dev 
The direct download link is:  https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases/download/2.0.1dev/DragAndDrop-2.0.1dev.nvda-addon 

I don't know anything about this add-on beyond what I've written here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 
Re: Drag and Drop

Brian Vogel
 

The DragAndDrop add-on by Javi Dominguez and collaborators is not an "official" add-on.  It's managed under GitHub, like many unofficial add-ons are.

The latest version is 2.0.1dev and can be downloaded from this page:  https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases/tag/2.0.1dev 
The direct download link is:  https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases/download/2.0.1dev/DragAndDrop-2.0.1dev.nvda-addon 

I don't know anything about this add-on beyond what I've written here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 
Re: Drag and Drop

Sarah k Alawami
 

There is, but I also cannot get it to work reliably. I don't have a link, but search for it on the nvda addons page.

--

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On 3 Nov 2020, at 18:56, Rowen Cary wrote:

There is an add-on DragAndDrop.
It would be better if someone could provide a download link.

Re: Drag and Drop

Rowen Cary
 

There is an add-on DragAndDrop.
It would be better if someone could provide a download link.
Re: appending to clipboard instead of just copying to clipboard?

Joseph Lee
 

Hi all,

For those new to what Brian wrote below: information blackout, at least for me, is inability to obtain crucial information for the right medium at the right moment.

As for quirks with clipboard history and system focus, one way I worked around it is looking for UIA window open event – in some cases, when a new window opens, controls send appropriate events. Thankfully emoji panel, clipboard history, and such does raise UIA window open event, and depending on what’s showing, NVDA will announce appropriate item – first selected emoji, top clipboard item, etc. Making matters complicated is that modern keyboard interface will raise UIA property change event to communicate name changes to NVDA and other screen readers, and announcing it is the strategy employed by Narrator, and to some extent, JAWS. NVDA does not follow this strategy much (and this is intentional) for consistent experience with similar controls – emoji panel is a grid, while clipboard history is a list (this is why when you use modern keyboard with NVDA, you’ll hear position information). Close to half of modern keyboard app module source code is devoted to this task.

For sake of completeness, here’s what actually happens when you press Windows+period or Windows+V:

  1. File Explorer will raise a window open event (this is the case in Version 1903 and later). NVDA will notice this and queue a “window open” event on the top-level modern keyboard window.
  2. NVDA will look at which part of modern keyboard is showing (each component ships with a specific Automation Id, a string that uniquely identifies a screen element).
  3. Depending on what is showing, NVDA will locate the first item to be announced by doing automatic object navigation.
  4. Because modern keyboard is an overlay window, NVDA will not steal system focus. Instead, the item found will become a navigator object.
  5. NVDA will then announce the appropriate item according to how it is supposed to announce it.

 

I think we should devote a separate future thread on modern keyboard mechanics.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 8:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] appending to clipboard instead of just copying to clipboard?

 

On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 05:11 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Unlike things such as Action Center, clipboard history is really an overlay window, so it will try its best to not steal system focus and caret.

-
And from a design perspective, that puts up a situation where, as I've said earlier in other contexts, it's impossible for a screen reader to "be looking at two things at once."  One of my Gmail tutorials gets into this with a control that appears at the same time as something else, and that something else is what ends up getting initial focus and you'd never know the new control is there unless you can see it or are willing to traverse the entire page by brute force.

Trying to decide how to shift focus "without losing your place" has got to be more than a bit of a challenge.  It seems to me that mouse-over blurbs and this situation with Clipboard History have at least a little in common.

I don't envy trying to make the decisions necessary to solve some of these "where should I focus" and where is the system focusing conundrums.  That is one of the inherent problems when trying to access a medium designed for one sensory modality, sight, via a substitute.  You've put it best, Joseph, with your coinage of the term "information blackout" secondary to the fact that a screen reader can't deal with multiple changes presented simultaneously with any kind of ease.  And you are the one who made me realize just how much those of us with sight take in the entire visual field of "the screen" as a whole, picking up on changes that occur because they are state changes from "the normal."  It's not that this information cannot be accessed at all, but no matter what one chooses to do as far as "who goes first" that means everything else is in a black box, and the timing of dealing with it is broken up into some arbitrary way.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 
Re: Using Acrobat Reader DC with NVDA

CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...>
 

Hello.
Yes, Acrobat Reader is a program for reading and editing pdf. You can read with this program and NVDA, but the edition is complicated, you can use Word 2013 and more recent versions for editing a pdf.
Regards.

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.
Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios con discapacidad visual en el
uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.
Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musician (pianist) and also help to users with a visual disability in the use of screen readers and technology.
Certified expert in screen reader NVDA.



El lun., 2 de nov. de 2020 a la(s) 23:23, Suhas Dharwad (twigsnap7@...) escribió:
Hi,
It's a PDF viewer/editor. 
Re: 2 questions about OCR

CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...>
 

Hello.
In some cases, the OCR can present the columns in the same line, for example:
File sice
Example.txt 2kb. 
But depending on the structure of the recognized text. The ocr don't use elements like tables and heading with documents. For this, you can use a specialyce software for OCR on documents or open a pdf with Microsoft Word 2013, 2016, 2019 or 365.
Regards.

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.
Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios con discapacidad visual en el
uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.
Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musician (pianist) and also help to users with a visual disability in the use of screen readers and technology.
Certified expert in screen reader NVDA.



El mar., 3 de nov. de 2020 a la(s) 00:30, Sascha Cowley via groups.io (sascha.camille=yahoo.com@groups.io) escribió:
Regarding your second question, yes. You should be able to use standard mouse control keys while in the OCR result to do this. I would encourage you to take a look at sections 5.7 (Navigating with the Mouse) and 10 (Content Recognition) of the NVDA user guide (NVDA menu > Help > User Guide).

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