Date   

Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I said in an earlier message that the dictionary shouldn't work as I described. On further thought, it should. It doesn't know when moving by carachter by carachter if the letters are part of a word or not. If the dictionary didn't work this way, my method wouldn't work. The reason it does is that when the dictionary sees a Roman numeral, even if it is a single letter by itself on a line, or a single letter with a space on both or either sides, it thinks it is a word and that's why it pronounces it as a Roman numeral.

In short, the dictionary does what it is supposed to do, as far as I can see, and capitalizing the numerals and making them case sensative will, as I said mostly eliminate the problem.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 6:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I just changed the entries as I described and they work properly.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 6:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I just found out a way in which the speech dicgtionary acts improperly and
causes a problem. While what I said is true and I just tested it by making
a lot of entries and having them read in a novel that uses Roman numerals, I
found that when I type and have speak characters on, when I type something
like the letter v or x, the Roman numeral is read. This shouldn't happen
because I'm using the whole word setting. I'm going to change the entries
to case sensative and change all my entries to capital letters. That should
eliminate most such unwanted behavior.

I also just found out that when I move character by character through a
word, letters are announced as Roman numerals. For example, in the word
having, if I move by letter through the word, the v is spoken as 5.

Again, making such dictionary entries capitalized and making them case
sensative, should eliminate most such behavior, not all unfortunately. If I
type the name Vicgtoria or Xavier, the capitalized letter will be announced
as a Roman numeral.

However, what I've discussed may be useful to some people and if desired, a
portable copy of NVDA can be used with such dictionary entries for reading..

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 5:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't
include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv
and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative
because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When
it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with
a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end
with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of
considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular
expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work
properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the
dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would
constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I just changed the entries as I described and they work properly.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 6:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I just found out a way in which the speech dicgtionary acts improperly and
causes a problem. While what I said is true and I just tested it by making
a lot of entries and having them read in a novel that uses Roman numerals, I
found that when I type and have speak characters on, when I type something
like the letter v or x, the Roman numeral is read. This shouldn't happen
because I'm using the whole word setting. I'm going to change the entries
to case sensative and change all my entries to capital letters. That should
eliminate most such unwanted behavior.

I also just found out that when I move character by character through a
word, letters are announced as Roman numerals. For example, in the word
having, if I move by letter through the word, the v is spoken as 5.

Again, making such dictionary entries capitalized and making them case
sensative, should eliminate most such behavior, not all unfortunately. If I
type the name Vicgtoria or Xavier, the capitalized letter will be announced
as a Roman numeral.

However, what I've discussed may be useful to some people and if desired, a
portable copy of NVDA can be used with such dictionary entries for reading..

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 5:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't
include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv
and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative
because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When
it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with
a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end
with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of
considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular
expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work
properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the
dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would
constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I just found out a way in which the speech dicgtionary acts improperly and causes a problem. While what I said is true and I just tested it by making a lot of entries and having them read in a novel that uses Roman numerals, I found that when I type and have speak characters on, when I type something like the letter v or x, the Roman numeral is read. This shouldn't happen because I'm using the whole word setting. I'm going to change the entries to case sensative and change all my entries to capital letters. That should eliminate most such unwanted behavior.

I also just found out that when I move character by character through a word, letters are announced as Roman numerals. For example, in the word having, if I move by letter through the word, the v is spoken as 5.

Again, making such dictionary entries capitalized and making them case sensative, should eliminate most such behavior, not all unfortunately. If I type the name Vicgtoria or Xavier, the capitalized letter will be announced as a Roman numeral.

However, what I've discussed may be useful to some people and if desired, a portable copy of NVDA can be used with such dictionary entries for reading..

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 5:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't
include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv
and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative
because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When
it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with
a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end
with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of
considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular
expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work
properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the
dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would
constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Sean Randall
 

the problom with this approach is that other letters than I would lose their meaning, such as x, v, c and so on.

whether NVDA should pronounce Iii as "3` or "I I I" is a matter for the synthesizer and user though, surely we shouldn't proscribe that level of detail for users in the general case.

On 8 Nov 2020, at 11:55, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn









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Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Luke Davis
 

An alternative to Brian's method, might be something longish like the following. Although again I don't fully understand the issue, not having gotten Janet's messages, so it might fail the use case after all.

I spent about an hour trying to figure out some more elegant way of doing this, and couldn't come up with anything shorter than the below. Brian's method is probably easier to understand, although this cuts and pastes as a single entry, so i guess it has that going for it. :)

The idea below is to match, at the start of any word, any RN between one and nine characters long, and additionally to match one optional subsequent non RN character, and a required final colon. That was what I understood from Brian's messages anyway.

Match type: regular expression
Case sensitive: yes
Pattern:

\b([MCLXVI])([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([a-zA-Z])?(?=:)

Replacement:

\1 \2 \3 \4 \5 \6 \7 \8 \9 \10

I tested a version of this in a temporary dictionary, and it appeared to work.

The weird construct for the colon at the end, is because it's punctuation. I don't know when NVDA applies punctuation processing to this chain of dictionaries, and so I thought it better to make sure the colon was there, but let it actually be processed by normal rules with a forward reference. I did not test that part in the temp dictionary, as I only just thought of it. If this fails, try replacing "(?=:)" with just ":", and put a colon at the end of the replacement string as well.

Luke


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

My thinking it that there can be no whitespace after the colon, or an instance of a single whitespace character, but not multiple whitespace characters.  Definitely not the same as .* at all.

I agree that one could probably use \b, but I was thinking "whitespace" and used whitespace matching.  And remember whitespace is not just a space, but includes space, tab stop and line break.

Also, I sometimes change my mind about what I'm going to capture, and \b is non-capturing.

There's a reason I have said, repeatedly, that I am doing "quick and dirty" to get the result I'm looking for.  It's entirely possible, nay, probable, that certain of my regexes could be expressed more elegantly.  If it works on the tests I'm running, as I expect it to, it's "good enough."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Luke Davis
 

Brian

I'm not receiving Janet's messages for some reason, so I'm not sure of every detail of her requirement for this, but I am left with a question.

What is the \s? at each end doing?
I mean obviously it is looking for zero or one space characters, but why?

If you can have zero space characters, that means you can have any character there, including a space character, since the space matching is un-anchored.
In fact, it is the same as \s*, for the same reason. (Or, possibly even the same as .*)

So I think the expression should work identically with or without the "\s?", although I could understand a "\b".

What am I missing?

Luke


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

          A second quick addendum, I just realized that what I've given so far may not work for cancer staging, as I presume that would be the word "stage" followed by the Roman numerals one through four, depending on which stage.

          We can create four more patters specific to the word stage preceding the Roman numerals one through four.  Luckily, you won't have to worry about reordering, as the prior matches all require a colon, and would all fail for the Roman numerals one through four that don't have a colon immediately following.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

           A quick addendum, I don't know how the letter A following a Roman numeral will end up being pronounced, as that's based on the synthesizer, so you may get ah or you may get A.  I just can't be sure.  I think letters B through Z are more likely to be read as the character itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

Below is the list of 10 regular expressions, followed by what you use for the replacement, that you need to enter in your speech dictionary in the order listed.  I emphasize again: in the order listed.

This is important because I believe (and am waiting for confirmation) that the speech dictionary (or any dictionary) has its entries processed in order, and on the first match the replacement is passed to the synthesizer and the processing for that "word/character cluster" stops.  If you had the entry for Roman numeral one first, it would snag Roman numerals 4, 3, and 2 incorrectly since all of them are composed of a collection of capital Is.

In addition, I am going to presume from your example that all of these Roman numeral, with possible optional letter, sequences must have a colon after the last character of the sequence with no space between the two.  If there is no colon then the match will not work, and that's by design, as I do not want the pronoun I to be captured as Roman numeral one.

If you want the word "Roman" or something else in front of the individual characters of the numeral before they're read out one by one then stick that in front of the first character of the replacement string.  I just went for the individual letters making up the numeral, along with the letter following it, if that letter is present.

The regular expressions all start with a backslash and end with a question mark.  The replacement strings all end with backslash one (the digit 1).  When working with the dictionary to add entries, the regular expression goes in the Pattern edit box, the replacement string in the Replacement box, and the Type radio button must be set to regular expression.

\s?IIII([a-z])?:\s?    I I I I \1
 
\s?III([a-z])?:\s?    I I I \1
 
\s?II([a-z])?:\s?    I I \1
 
\s?I([a-z])?:\s?    I \1
 
\s?IV([a-z])?:\s?    I V \1
 
\s?VIII([a-z])?:\s?    V I I I \1
 
\s?VII([a-z])?:\s?    V I I \1
 
\s?VI([a-z])?:\s?    V I \1
 
\s?V([a-z])?:\s?    V \1
 
\s?IX([a-z])?:\s?    I X \1
 
\s?X([a-z])?:\s?    X \1


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons, as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be valuable.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

        Thanks.  I'll post what you need to use a bit later this evening.  I will only ask this one time again, are the letters after the numeral limited to a certain set?  If not, I'll look for lowercase A through lowercase Z, but if it should only be A through F (or something similar) let me know.  That's very easy to tweak.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,
-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed:  using the speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to catch only what you want.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Janet Brandly
 

Hi Brian,

 

Yes, the Roman numerals must be in upper case. Some examples of Roman numerals combined with letters and Arabic numbers are:

 

â Schatzker III: Depression only of lateral tibial plateau (two types):

Schatzker IIIa: Lateral depression.

Schatzker IIIb: Central depression.  

 

Less often, Roman numerals may also be followed by lower-case letters or Arabic numbers.

 

Thanks again for your help. Maybe this could benefit others as well.

 

Janet

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 7, 2020 2:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

           I believe I understand what you're saying about the character afterward, but would you mind tossing out a couple of examples.  Particularly, if the character(s) that can come after the Roman numeral are limited to a select few.

           Also, can the Roman numerals be either upper case or lower case letters for the numeral, or strictly one or the other?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: NVDA and Microsoft Office Outlook 2003

 

Raymond,

          Count me among those who say, "Update to Office 2016, 2019, or 365 slightly quicker than you'd planned."

           You also have the option of changing over to other well-known and well-supported-under-NVDA e-mail clients and office suites.  For example, Thunderbird and Libre Office, respectively.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


NVDA and Microsoft Office Outlook 2003

Raymond Brough
 

Hello Folks
 
Approximately 2 months ago I commenced using NVDA, currently version 2020.3.  Within a couple of weeks of this I subscribed to this group and this is my first post.
 
I am in the midst of having the software on my desktop and laptop computers upgraded / changed and, to spread the learning curve and disruption,  have opted to carry this out in 2 phases. 
 
Firstly, I upgraded to Windows-10, Firefox and Google chrome, and changed to using NVDA.  Previously I was using Windows-7, Internet Explorer 11 and JAWS.
 
Secondly, and imminent, I will be upgrading to Microsoft 365 from Microsoft Office 2003.  Prior to doing so, there are several tasks I would like to complete.  Unsurprisingly, bearing in mind the age of Microsoft Office 2003, I am experiencing some difficulties but finding work arounds for or tolerating the vast majority of them.  However, their is one which is proving extremely frustrating in respect of Outlook 2003!
 
When reading back and forth through an HTML or Plain Text e-mail thread using the 4 arrow keys, when I read some e-mail addresses in the second most recent message in the thread, or messages prior to this, NVDA often stops speaking and my computer freezes.  It appears the only way to get out of this is to relaunch NVDA:
Windows Key+r nvda Enter.
 
After relaunching NVDA, when I alt+tab, all of the applications / messages / files etc. I was working with / on are still open.  However, when the message causing the problem is highlighted I have to quickly tap the End Key or Ctrl+Home to take the cursor away from the e-mail address causing the problem, otherwise, failure to do this quickly enough will result in a reoccurrence of NVDA being silenced and the computer freezing.
 
When I invoke continuous read,
NVDA Key+Down Arrow
the e-mail thread is read back without a problem!
 
The problem occasionally occurs when using Microsoft Office Word 2003.  When reading some, not all, e-mail addresses in a file.
 
If there is a solution to the problem I would be pleased to read about it.  However, I suspect I may be advised / told to upgrade to Microsoft Office 365 slightly quicker than I planned.
 
I have searched for a solution in the NVDA manual and on the website, and also carried out an internet search.  It appears NVDA will support elements of Microsoft Office from version 2010 to 365.
 
I look forward to your replies.  In anticipation, many thanks.
 
Raymond Brough - slowly shedding his dinosaur clothes
 
 
 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

This could be made much easier, and possibly adding this ability would be useful to others in different contexts.

You can now tell the dictionary to recognize the item anywhere, whole word, or regular expression. There should be an option for something like only exactly as written. In other words, if I wrote a Roman Numeral, placed a space before and after it, and made it case sensative, that would minimize the number of times it would be recognized by the dictionary. The system wouldn't be perfect. You would have to not have the letter capital I alone recognized as something to be spoken as a numeral. But the listener could know without any trouble when it is meant as a Roman numeral. I don't think there would be any other such cases. It may be that adding the exactly as written only option wouldn't help many users, perhaps it would require too much work to implement to be justified, given all the other things developers might work on and the time versus benefit ratio. But perhaps this would be easy and would benefit many people. Maybe it would benefit people in other contexts than just Roman numerals that I don't know about. Whatever the case, this might be something worth discussing.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 3:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

Janet,

Just to be crystal clear, we're talking the following Roman numerals, which I will put spaces between each character for the purposes of this post so that they get read character by character:
I one
I I two
I I I three
I V four
V five
V I six
V I I seven
V I I I eight
I X nine
X ten

You don't want or need something like X V I read for sixteen?

It's very easy to come up with a couple of short regular expressions that can handle the Roman numerals for the numbers one through ten. It's a lot more difficult if you wanted it to handle any Roman numeral, e.g, 2020 written out as M M X X, or 1959 as M C M L I X

If all you want is one through 10 I'll toss together the regexes and replacement strings and post them for you to add to your speech dictionary. I will also presume that any of these Roman numerals will have a preceding space and space after unless they are located as the start of a line or end of a line.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

           I believe I understand what you're saying about the character afterward, but would you mind tossing out a couple of examples.  Particularly, if the character(s) that can come after the Roman numeral are limited to a select few.

           Also, can the Roman numerals be either upper case or lower case letters for the numeral, or strictly one or the other?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Janet Brandly
 

Hi again Brian,

 

That’s right, these are the only Roman numerals I need NVDA to speak. There would always be a space preceding the numeral; however, occasionally (perhaps 5 to 10% of the time) there would either be a letter or Arabic  number directly after the Roman numeral, without a space. I am using these numbers/numerals for things like fracture and cancer staging/grading.

 

Thanks so much for your help,

 

Janet

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: November 7, 2020 2:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

          Just to be crystal clear, we're talking the following Roman numerals, which I will put spaces between each character for the purposes of this post so that they get read character by character:
I one
I I two
I I I three
I V four
V five
V I six
V I I seven
V I I I  eight  
I X  nine
X ten

You don't want or need something like X V I read for sixteen?

It's very easy to come up with a couple of short regular expressions that can handle the Roman numerals for the numbers one through ten.  It's a lot more difficult if you wanted it to handle any Roman numeral, e.g, 2020 written out as M M X X, or 1959 as M C M L I X

If all you want is one through 10 I'll toss together the regexes and replacement strings and post them for you to add to your speech dictionary.  I will also presume that any of these Roman numerals will have a preceding space and space after unless they are located as the start of a line or end of a line.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

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