Date   

Re: Accessibility tips on this website would be appreciated

greg@...
 

Thank you Shaun.  Just to clarify a bit.  This project is done in HTML5, but there are still bunches of old computers out there that have older graphics cards that are not capable of viewing WebGL content in HTML5.....so this program also has the ability to automatically detect if the flash version is needed.  The flash version is only a "fallback" that is provided as a courtesy for end users with older computers.
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


Re: Accessibility tips on this website would be appreciated

greg@...
 

Brian,

Thank you for "cutting to the chase" on my inquiry!  The development platform that I am using is designed to optimize spinning panoramic imagery that provides better context compared to still imagery.....because it allows the viewer to see what is above, behind, below and all around the initial focal point of the image.  What makes the program so appealing to me as a sighted person is that it allows the incorporation of other supporting content....like video and still imagery to be accessed from within the panoramic image.  This requires that a transition element like a button....or several buttons be accessible within the spinning panoramic image.  For right now, there seems to be no easy way to make the transition to these buttons with a screen reader.  So, I have inferred that a good first step in making panoramic projects more screen reader friendly would be to find a way to use key strokes to move from panorama to panorama....where the best description possible tor each panorama is be provided with an alt tag or tooltip.  In the project link that I originally posted http://www.photographyoptions.net/images/degraynew/tour.html I can use the up and down arrows to move through a combobox this lists the different campgrounds and recreation areas, but when I hit the enter key to select one of those areas, I cannot figure out how to use a keystroke to move through the 15 or so individual thumbnail images representing all of the panoramas that I am showing in each of 10 campground / day use areas.  It would then be useful to use a keystroke to find your way back to the combobox menu....so that you could skip around more quickly and find what you are looking for.  In this particular project...In many of the campgrounds, there are specific campsites designed for accessibility located right next to the shower houses that are also designed for accessibility.  I think that this information might be sought by camping enthusiasts on this forum.

Also, thank you for letting me know that Google seems not to have cracked this.  Using NVDA on Google maps, it looks and sounds to me like they have done a pretty good job at facilitating keystroke navigation to every part of their maps....except the imagery in "Photos" and "Streetview."  One of the problems for them is that they allow the general public to put imagery up in these places....and many times there are no captions provided.  My strategy right now is to find a way to enable keystroke navigation through each of the 150 or 200 panoramas that I have in each project, where the screen reader speaks the description.  The next step will be to find away to navigate with keystrokes within each panorama to find the additional content like video and stills that may be available there.

With all of this said.  If anyone out there has been able to reliably access all of the 150 panoramas in my project link and hear the tootips (they are repetitive at this point....only speaking the name of the recreation area,) I would appreciate learning the correct keystrokes to achieve that. 

Brian, thanks again for taking the time to clarify!

Cheers, Greg
 
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


Using PCloud with NVDA

Rich DeSteno
 

Is anyone using PCloud with NVDA?  I want to know the best way to save and delete files in PCloud with NVDA.

--
Rich De Steno


Re: say all failing with certain SAPI5 voices

Chris Shook
 

Daniel,
I've had the same issue. It happens the same with the eloquence and Vocalizer voices for NVDA.
Also, you might want to switch to eloquence soft ware when performing a spellcheck on a word document ad the Vocalizer voices only read the first letter of a misspelled word and the suggestions to fix it.


say all failing with certain SAPI5 voices

Daniel Wolak
 

Hi all,

I'm currently attempting to use the sapi5 voices (vocalizer as well as
eloquence) from codfactory sold by atguys. Whilst the only minor problem
with eloquence is certain artefacts with capital letter pitch changes,
every vocalizer voice I've tried to use fails when using say all after
reading several paragraphs. I'm just wondering if anyone's
experienced/found a solution to this?

Running windows10 1809 17763.316 64-bit pro, along with nvda 2018.4.1.


Thanks,


Daniel


System repair disk

Pascal Lambert <coccinelle86@...>
 

Hi,

Is there a way to force the creation of a system repair disk on a USB?

Thanks

Blessings

Pascal


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

 

Rui,

          What bothers me here, and it is not about you, but about those translators, is that it should be part and parcel of their jobs to obtain the necessary understanding about what it is that's being translated before they translate it.

           Taking the time to consult with the individual or entity requesting the translation at any point when it becomes clear that the material being translated is not adequately understood at a level necessary to do accurate translation is part and parcel of the job.

            I actually know of two here in the US who are screen reader users, but I don't think either "does" Portugese, though I could check if you'd like and put you in contact if desired.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Captcha solving services and NVDA

Mallard
 

It never ever worked for me...

Il 15/02/2019 18:43, Sarah k Alawami ha scritto:

I thought that service went away? I baught some credits but could never ge the add on to work again after last year. Is it back now? I miss that service.

On 15 Feb 2019, at 2:27, Mobeen Iqbal wrote:

Hi. The one I personally use with great success is Rumola, they're
very reasonably priced.

http://skipinput.com/

Very best wishes,

Mo.


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Rui Fontes
 

Yes, if I can find a professional translator specialized in assistive technology the result should be good, but at least in Portugal we do not have that...

Rui


Às 15:57 de 16/02/2019, Brian Vogel escreveu:

Rui,
         No criticism of you, but of the "professional" translators you used:  Attempts to do "literal translation" are about as unprofessional as you can get.
         The job of a professional translator, which you are showing yourself to be in this context, is to bring the concept, in as much fullness as possible, across languages.  That often involved very intentional choices to dump literal, word by word or even phrase by phrase translation.  The object is to convey shared understanding, and you're trying to do that admirably.
          Then again, to give professional translators who may be having difficulty here some credit, they're not tech geeks, either.  How would someone who has no idea of what "input gestures" is supposed to convey be able to accurately translate same conceptually?   In order to translate well you have to have some idea of the meaning, not just the written structure, of what it is you're translating.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
*/A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep./*
          ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

 

Rui,

         No criticism of you, but of the "professional" translators you used:  Attempts to do "literal translation" are about as unprofessional as you can get.

         The job of a professional translator, which you are showing yourself to be in this context, is to bring the concept, in as much fullness as possible, across languages.  That often involved very intentional choices to dump literal, word by word or even phrase by phrase translation.  The object is to convey shared understanding, and you're trying to do that admirably.

          Then again, to give professional translators who may be having difficulty here some credit, they're not tech geeks, either.  How would someone who has no idea of what "input gestures" is supposed to convey be able to accurately translate same conceptually?   In order to translate well you have to have some idea of the meaning, not just the written structure, of what it is you're translating.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

Oh, muito obrigado! Faz sentido :)
Oh, thanks! Makes sense.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 16/02/2019 13:46, Rui Fontes escreveu:

People, excuse the use of portuguese...

Márcio, tal como nós temos as notas de 1 a 5, sendo 5 o melhor, nos Estados Unidos as notas são de A a F, sendo A o melhor e F o pior...

Rui


Às 08:29 de 16/02/2019, marcio via Groups.Io escreveu:
Guys I know I'm gonna be too stupid asking something like that and that hasn't anything to do with the matter now.
However, please, what it means "to get an F" in Joseph Lee's message?
Just gave it a google and found nothing, so...

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter <https://twitter.com/firirinfonfon>

Em 16/02/2019 04:41, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

You know, explaining what we do depends on what we know.

As a computer geek I find it natural to go flat tack and explain things in technical terms, sometimes I forget to translate back to normal understandable language and find it hard to do so at times.



On 16/02/2019 6:51 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Ah, I think I see where this is going.

So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about documentation, I take it as a personal failure.

How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands) can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or closing off the airspace around the route.

The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:

  * Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized
    into different types of tasks.
  * Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy
    above, your destination.
  * Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or
    using the analogy above, modes of travel.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Mary Otten
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g

Mary


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@... <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>> wrote:

    Hi,

    I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give
    you a short answer:

    Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar
    with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the
    same: both perform something which can be called upon from other
    places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is
    a function with a piece of input attached.

    In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really
    Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference
    between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a
    piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged
    function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and
    even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long
    as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command,
    a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.),
    NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign
    touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA
    do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of
    input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use
    keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch
    swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact,
    these commands call the same routine).

    Cheers,

    Joseph

    *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
    *Mary Otten
    *Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
    *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

    Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in
    the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.



    On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...
    <mailto:richwels@...>> wrote:

        Why couldn't they be in different preference categories?
        Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for
        Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

        On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

            The problem is, what should this array of ways of input
            be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover
            everything.  This is just one more example of the decline
            of English.  Apps and applications, two different things,
            are used increasingly interchangeably. the language in
            general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is
            just one area.

            Gene

            ----- Original Message -----

            *From:*Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>

            *Sent:*Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

            *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

            *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

            On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

                Input gestures are more abstract

            Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is
            intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when
            it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard
            being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go.

            The folks at NV Access are far from the only software
            developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the
            route taken it makes things more opaque to the target
            demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the
            first place.

            --
            Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

            /*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in
            ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*/

                      ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/









Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Rui Fontes
 

Joseph, that situation, Microsoft itself making unlabelled controls, should not enforce the need of a NVDA way to labell a control?

Rui Fontes


Às 07:33 de 16/02/2019, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi,
The post I wrote below reminds me of a common problem I encounter as new Windows 10 feature is released: unlabeled controls. I spent countless hours debugging and correcting this problem, even talking to Microsoft people in charge of features with accessibility issues. But I’ll save tales from that adventure for another thread.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Joseph Lee via Groups.Io
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 11:29 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
Hi,
Not all controls are obligated to take in input from all forms. This mostly has to do with the design of the app or a site in question, or the operating system isn’t understanding what NVDA wants it to do. This can be remedied by changing certain internal parts of a control, and sometimes, we know the effort that must be spent on persuading developers to take inclusive design seriously.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 11:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
Your explanation reminds me of something I've wondered about.  If these questions aren't clear, let me know.  It appears that in some programs, clicking with a mouse works but enter doesn't.  On some web pages with some controls, that is true as well.  I know that on web pages, you can create links that only respond to mouse clicks.  Is that the case in programs or are the icons just somehow not activated by enter, not by code the designer intentionally uses to limit the icon, but for other reasons?  Also, why would anyone want to create a link or control that can only be mouse activated?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Joseph Lee <mailto:@joslee>
*Sent:*Friday, February 15, 2019 11:51 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
Hi,
Ah, I think I see where this is going.
So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about documentation, I take it as a personal failure.
How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands) can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or closing off the airspace around the route.
The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:
* Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized
into different types of tasks.
* Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy
above, your destination.
* Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or
using the analogy above, modes of travel.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Mary Otten
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g
Mary
On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <@joslee <mailto:@joslee>> wrote:
Hi,
I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give you a
short answer:
Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar with
the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the same:
both perform something which can be called upon from other places.
The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is a function
with a piece of input attached.
In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really
Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference
between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a
piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged
function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and
even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long as
any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command, a
touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.), NVDA
will let you perform something. This is why you can assign touch
commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA do let
you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of input
mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use keyboard
to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch swipes has
been defined to perform object navigation; in fact, these commands
call the same routine).
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Mary Otten
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in the
way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.
On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...
<mailto:richwels@...>> wrote:
Why couldn't they be in different preference categories? Braille
for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for Touch screens
and Voice control for Voice control?
On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:
The problem is, what should this array of ways of input be
called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover
everything.  This is just one more example of the decline of
English.  Apps and applications, two different things, are
used increasingly interchangeably.  the language in general
is becoming less precise and accurate and this is just one area.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Brian Vogel <mailto:@britechguy>
*Sent:*Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Input gestures are more abstract
Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is
intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when it's
currently the only method (regardless of keyboard being
used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go.
The folks at NV Access are far from the only software
developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the
route taken it makes things more opaque to the target
demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the first
place.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
/*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance
when the need for illusion is deep.*/
          ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Rui Fontes
 

People, excuse the use of portuguese...

Márcio, tal como nós temos as notas de 1 a 5, sendo 5 o melhor, nos Estados Unidos as notas são de A a F, sendo A o melhor e F o pior...

Rui


Às 08:29 de 16/02/2019, marcio via Groups.Io escreveu:

Guys I know I'm gonna be too stupid asking something like that and that hasn't anything to do with the matter now.
However, please, what it means "to get an F" in Joseph Lee's message?
Just gave it a google and found nothing, so...
Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter <https://twitter.com/firirinfonfon>
Em 16/02/2019 04:41, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

You know, explaining what we do depends on what we know.

As a computer geek I find it natural to go flat tack and explain things in technical terms, sometimes I forget to translate back to normal understandable language and find it hard to do so at times.



On 16/02/2019 6:51 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Ah, I think I see where this is going.

So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about documentation, I take it as a personal failure.

How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands) can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or closing off the airspace around the route.

The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:

* Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized
into different types of tasks.
* Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy
above, your destination.
* Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or
using the analogy above, modes of travel.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Mary Otten
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g

Mary


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <@joslee <mailto:@joslee>> wrote:

Hi,

I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give
you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar
with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the
same: both perform something which can be called upon from other
places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is
a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really
Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference
between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a
piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged
function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and
even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long
as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command,
a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.),
NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign
touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA
do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of
input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use
keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch
swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact,
these commands call the same routine).

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Mary Otten
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in
the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.



On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...
<mailto:richwels@...>> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories?
Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for
Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input
be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover
everything.  This is just one more example of the decline
of English.  Apps and applications, two different things,
are used increasingly interchangeably. the language in
general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is
just one area.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Brian Vogel <mailto:@britechguy>

*Sent:*Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is
intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when
it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard
being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go.

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software
developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the
route taken it makes things more opaque to the target
demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the
first place.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

/*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in
ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*/

          ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Rui Fontes
 

That explains why I have stopped to use profissional translators...
We, users, do not need a literal translation, but a translation that can explain, in everyday words, what the author means...

Because of that, in portuguese we have translated the menu "Input gestures" to "Define commands", because, in end of day, is what you do in that dialog... You are defining what command, meaning keyboard keystroke, Braille display keystroke or a touch gesture, will perform the action...

I, in all my translations use this approach, in spite of, some times, I need to rewrite all the manual for a device...

Best regards,

Rui Fontes
NVDA portuguese team
Tiflotecnia, Lda...

Às 15:07 de 16/02/2019, Brian Vogel escreveu:

On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 06:54 AM, Ian Westerland wrote:
Another way around the issue might be to define what the word means
in context so "gesture" could be used within the contextual
definition. Just a thought.
Ian,
        Just because I have been in this situation more than once before, I have to tell you that this idea will either not work at all or not work well.
        People do not tend to read documentation cover to cover nor in order, and that actually makes perfect sense.  We seek out sections either via the index, table of contents, or searching that appear to relate directly to the issue we're trying to solve or the thing we're trying to learn about.
         Gesture is an utterly unclear and inappropriate term for a command.  Others have stated exactly why, especially for your typical reader of English.  If one has to explain the basic concept of command then something's very, very wrong with the terminology being used and you can be sure that many people will miss the explanation for the reason I noted above.
          The ability to directly apprehend meaning, with the bare minimum of additional explanation, is critical in technical documentation.  Mind you, there are obviously times when "the bare minimum" will be far from bare or minimal, but this isn't one of those.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
*/A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep./*
          ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

 

On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 06:54 AM, Ian Westerland wrote:
Another way around the issue might be to define what the word means in context so "gesture" could be used within the contextual definition. Just a thought.
Ian,

        Just because I have been in this situation more than once before, I have to tell you that this idea will either not work at all or not work well.

        People do not tend to read documentation cover to cover nor in order, and that actually makes perfect sense.  We seek out sections either via the index, table of contents, or searching that appear to relate directly to the issue we're trying to solve or the thing we're trying to learn about.

         Gesture is an utterly unclear and inappropriate term for a command.  Others have stated exactly why, especially for your typical reader of English.  If one has to explain the basic concept of command then something's very, very wrong with the terminology being used and you can be sure that many people will miss the explanation for the reason I noted above.

          The ability to directly apprehend meaning, with the bare minimum of additional explanation, is critical in technical documentation.  Mind you, there are obviously times when "the bare minimum" will be far from bare or minimal, but this isn't one of those.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Accessibility problems with Medium.

 

Hi Chris, I'm contacting you because I've read that you are the IT contact for the Medium site. If you are not the right person I should be emailing, let me know who the correct person is.

I'm a totally blind user who is also making some money through the Medium partner program. As it stands, there are a lot of easily fixable accessibility issues that are preventing me from publishing on the site fully. I've been consistently bringing desktop accessibility issues to your attention but have heard no progress or updates about it after one accessibility improvement made to the IOS application some months ago. I’d like to point out the various issues I have on the desktop. If you fix these, your site will be far more accessible for everyone.

  1. Forms are not labeled. This happens all across the site. Edit fields are not labeled and don't have their title attribute associated with the field name. This is a consistent problem, especially when trying to create a publication. Because of this, your electronic W9 form is completely inaccessible. I had to get sighted assistance to fill it out, per your requirements to keep earning money through the program.
  2. Keyboard focus isn't consistent. For a screen reader user, editing and writing stories is extremely challenging because keyboard focus and keyboard controls aren't always persistent. Many controls on your site can't be accessed via the keyboard, such as the genre selection when creating a publication. There's too many to list, but very few buttons and controls can be accessed via the keyboard.
  3. Dialog boxes are not accessible to screen readers. Focus isn't drawn to the dialog boxes and leaves screen readers stuck, unable to even opt into the medium partner program when editing a story. This happens all across the site.
  4. The main editor isn't keyboard accessible. To a screen reader user, the compose a story window has two multiline edit fields that are not labeled. The second edit field, however, is a dud, and does not even show up visually on the site, so a screen reader user could be typing in a phantom edit field and publish a blank story.
  5. No alt text option. Give writers the option to add alt text to their images. At the moment, this function doesn't exist on your site.

I look forward to hearing how and when you will address these accessibility issues that have been persistent for more than a year. I’d be more than happy to do a zoom session with you so we can talk about these in more depth and give you a live demonstration.


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Felix G.
 

Hi,
I also like the term "input commands." Or maybe "user actions."
Best,
Felix

Am Sa., 16. Feb. 2019 um 13:10 Uhr schrieb Ângelo Abrantes <ampa4374@...>:

Here, in Portugal, we are using some think like "define commands", "Definir comandos".


Às 12:00 de 16-02-2019, Devin Prater escreveu:
I would agree with just "commands", or "input commands."
Devin Pratersent from Gmail.


On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 5:54 AM Ian Westerland <iwesterl@...> wrote:


Another way around the issue might be to define what the word means in
context so "gesture" could be used within the contextual definition.
Just a thought.


Ian Westerland





On 2/16/2019 10:51 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
> Yes we need a whole new word or phrase.
> How about user input schemes or something like that?
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Bartholomew"
> <rlbart53@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:16 AM
> Subject: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The underlying explanation of what input gestures are is excellent and
>> understandable; however, for me, the issue isn't semantics per se but
>> if the
>> top-level description isn't immediately obvious to the end-user, it has
>> failed in some way.  In this case, the word gesture implies touch screens
>> and, so, discouraged me from finding the time to delve into an area
>> which I
>> thought wasn't relevant to me.  A personal failing I admit but we all
>> have
>> demands upon our time so if we can weed out what we think are unnecessary
>> diversions, it's often the pragmatic way to go!
>>
>> I accept that this whole area is a minefield as you can please some of
>> the
>> people, some of the time, etc, etc, etc!
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>> Richard Bartholomew
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA

Sem vírus. www.avast.com


Re: Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?

Gene
 

If this setting isn't available in preferences, and I am not aware of a do not announce graphics setting, you may be able to stop graphic from being announced using the speech dictionary.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:46 AM
Subject: [nvda] Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?

To all members
Does NVDA has feature to ignore graphic while navigating web page, and if it has, now to enable it?
A friend asked me this, and he shared him thought that sometimes he doesn't want to see graphics in article he reading, and he wonder if we could add this to NVDA if it doesn't exist. I can also create a tiket for this if noone did before.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cuong
----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
 The Assistive technology specialist
 Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
 Tel: +8428 7302-4488
 E-mail: info@...; tech@...
 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
 Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org
Mobile / Viber / WhatsApp / Zalo: +84 902-572-300
 E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
 Skype name: dangmanhcuong
 facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
 Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/


Re: ITunes and NVDA

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

Yes, I use it currently. I have the latest version of iTunes. I recently had to open the view menu to turn on “show status bar” to get back to the look I was familiar with. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ján Kulik
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 1:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] ITunes and NVDA

 

Hi all, does anyone use your iTunes on a computer with an NVDA reader? NVDA just does not announce any offers after the ALTm slider or iTunes version information. Unfortunately, I recently installed it.

 

Thank you for your answers.

Greetings from Slovakia

 


Re: Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?

Chris
 

Maybe the text nav add-on is what you are looking for

 

Check it out at:  https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/textnav.en.html

 

 

From: Dang Manh Cuong
Sent: 16 February 2019 11:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?

 

To all members
Does NVDA has feature to ignore graphic while navigating web page, and if it has, now to enable it?
A friend asked me this, and he shared him thought that sometimes he doesn't want to see graphics in article he reading, and he wonder if we could add this to NVDA if it doesn't exist. I can also create a tiket for this if noone did before.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cuong

----------------
Dang Manh Cuong
 The Assistive technology specialist
 Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
 Tel: +8428 7302-4488
 E-mail: info@...; tech@...
 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind
 Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org
Mobile / Viber / WhatsApp / Zalo: +84 902-572-300
 E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
 Skype name: dangmanhcuong
 facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
 Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/