To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an
intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10
I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule
capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels
and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my
download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can
use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't
have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply
because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a
bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper
ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what
that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender
does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its
retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains
empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you
should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no
newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not
upgrade.

You can and I have people that have but have had so many system issues
they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of
windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care
about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky
especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a
lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured
online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to
media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can
get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security
reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd
generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as
an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then
win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I
used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup,
windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I don't have a system that uses it, I do have a
coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom
built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an
older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.



On 12/03/2019 2:50 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take
a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting
Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound
up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want
to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio
AKA /Starboy/


Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>;

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely
kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x
lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy
a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I
doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will
actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from
vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up,
visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the
older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it
runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of
win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really
recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run
fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and
or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some
workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going
to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I
know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when
windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the
2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally
cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more
powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security
nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that
know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows
mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and
the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities
with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of
older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want
to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a
longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop
being supported and other things but there is more of that than win
xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use
usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of
usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to
fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to
mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all
ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all
the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull
microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and
externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have
it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to
powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not
the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern
systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in
1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had
learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point
the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones
mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment,
gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small
that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to
get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old
dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over
to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is
in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business
emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of
ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on
its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years,
that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks
round that.

As long as there are still people and businesses using it win7 will
continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled
out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and
programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean
why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still
about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the
mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually
thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is
unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no
longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be
effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware
architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running
with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real
change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge
of oses and devices being used at once.




On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way
that people are still using Windows XP
But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that
holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier
That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your
situation


On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net
<mailto:mrsingle@sasktel.net>> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time
if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in
win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win
7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

PS my add ons are:
add ons updater
Applications dictionary
audio themes
Dropbox, but no longer is working
Winamp extender
Dumb clipboard announcements
Focus highlight now disabled
Golden Cursor. (This needs a new name in my view)
Goldwave
Indent nav
Mozilla enhancements
Open link with
Svox Pico. Only used for demo purposes
Resource monitor
Speech player in espeak. Useful to check current espeak pronounciations etc.
Systray list
Text nav
Toolbar explorer

And that is it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 12:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] Hang ups in latest beta

Has anyone here using 2019.1 beta had any strange hang ups? The effect in
for example explorer or even in Jarte and other bits of software seems to
be that the currently highlighted or focussed word is all you can here,
though it registers the keypresses, its not really clear if things are
moving, I suspect not.

If anyone has had this, can they perhaps while in the problem try an
nvda/f1 and post the result. Also anyone who fancies losing access to
their add ons, turn them off and see if it still happens.
Of course restarting nvda will fix the issue and it might not then happen
for days, but I and at least one other person never had this prior to this
version so if there is a bug there, it would be nice to find it.
Also of course if you can see the log part containing the problem paste
that as well.


I am using windows 7 myself.
Sods law dictated that the last time it happened when I had time to
investigate it was in a program that hardly anyone will be using, so its
hare to determine what was going on, but yesterday it happened twice while
renaming and copying files in Explorer

Note no error tones are heard.
Debug should be set for the full details before it happens.
.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

I have not seen this but then the last update I saw was the mozilla enhancements one and it was only there a couple of minutes. Is this something odd with the add ons web site or with the string that is held in nvda being overwritten by something else?
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Westerland" <iwesterl@bigpond.net.au>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Add on updates
Thank you Ron.  This is the first time this has happened on an ongoing
basis so I wondered if I had done something wrong.  My Computer had just
been turned on for the day so the notification had been there for
several hours.
Cheers.
Ian
On 3/12/2019 1:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Ian,


I have also seen this. However, I think it's simply a function of when the updates are recognized and a time out error. That is to say, if I leave the computer on and it is more than several minutes and I try activating the update add on button, I get the error. If I get the alert and am near the computer and right away, I activate the update add on button, I don't get the error.


On 3/11/2019 4:16 PM, Ian Westerland wrote:

Hi. I am using the NVDA latest Beta and, it is working well. When I am notified that there are Add on updates when first starting NVDA, the update shows an error message when I attempt the update from the notification. When I go to the update Add on from the NVDA menu, it works as usual----well and efficiently.

Has anyone else had the issue with the Add on update notification?

Ian Westerland

Hi Ian,


I have also seen this. However, I think it's simply a function of when the updates are recognized and a time out error. That is to say, if I leave the computer on and it is more than several minutes and I try activating the update add on button, I get the error. If I get the alert and am near the computer and right away, I activate the update add on button, I don't get the error.


On 3/11/2019 4:16 PM, Ian Westerland wrote:

Hi. I am using the NVDA latest Beta and, it is working well. When I am notified that there are Add on updates when first starting NVDA, the update shows an error message when I attempt the update from the notification. When I go to the update Add on from the NVDA menu, it works as usual----well and efficiently.

Has anyone else had the issue with the Add on update notification?

Ian Westerland

Has anyone here using 2019.1 beta had any strange hang ups? The effect in for example explorer or even in Jarte and other bits of software seems to be that the currently highlighted or focussed word is all you can here, though it registers the keypresses, its not really clear if things are moving, I suspect not.

If anyone has had this, can they perhaps while in the problem try an nvda/f1 and post the result. Also anyone who fancies losing access to their add ons, turn them off and see if it still happens.
Of course restarting nvda will fix the issue and it might not then happen for days, but I and at least one other person never had this prior to this version so if there is a bug there, it would be nice to find it.
Also of course if you can see the log part containing the problem paste that as well.


I am using windows 7 myself.
Sods law dictated that the last time it happened when I had time to investigate it was in a program that hardly anyone will be using, so its hare to determine what was going on, but yesterday it happened twice while renaming and copying files in Explorer

Note no error tones are heard.
Debug should be set for the full details before it happens.
.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

I had to upgrade to ten. My system got too old. Back in 2016 when you got this free trial to try ten. I don’t know if my old acer was able to handle it.  It had burned out ports. Plus the sound card got burned out.  I do banking online.  That’s why I did upgrade to ten. Even if 7 was not going to be supported next year. I was going to leave it anyway for that reason! 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: March 11, 2019 1:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

 

To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10 I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not upgrade.

You can and I have people that have  but have had so many system issues they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup, windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I  don't have a system that uses it, I do have a coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.

 

 

On 12/03/2019 2:50 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.

 

 

 

On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP

But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier

That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation

On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 

 

 

Hi Ian,
I have also seen this.  However, I think it's simply a function of when the updates are recognized and a time out error.  That is to say, if I leave the computer on and it is more than several minutes and I try activating the update add on button, I get the error.  If I get the alert and am near the computer and right away, I activate the update add on button, I don't get the error.
On 3/11/2019 4:16 PM, Ian Westerland wrote:

Hi. I am using the NVDA latest Beta and, it is working well.  When I am notified that there are Add on updates when first starting NVDA, the update shows an error message when I attempt the update from the notification.  When I go to the update Add on from the NVDA menu, it works as usual----well and efficiently.

Has anyone else had the issue with the Add on update notification?

Ian Westerland



Exactly 2 years ago, my Dell desktop running Win 7 64 bit bit the dust.  I found an HP desktop refurb running Win 7 64 git for $184 on walmart.com, and it runs like a top.  I have never upgraded the OS on an existing system, and only did so when I bought a new PC, but I will run Win 7 on this box until it dies.  When MS declared end of life for Win XP, many still continued to run it, including many businesses and even government agencies.  As long as you use 3rd party Internet security programs and browsers, you should be okay running Win 7 for a long time if you choose to do so.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:27 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

I had to upgrade to ten. My system got too old. Back in 2016 when you got this free trial to try ten. I don’t know if my old acer was able to handle it.  It had burned out ports. Plus the sound card got burned out.  I do banking online.  That’s why I did upgrade to ten. Even if 7 was not going to be supported next year. I was going to leave it anyway for that reason! 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: March 11, 2019 1:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

 

To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10 I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not upgrade.

You can and I have people that have  but have had so many system issues they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup, windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I  don't have a system that uses it, I do have a coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.

 

 

On 12/03/2019 2:50 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.

 

 

 

On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP

But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier

That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation

On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 

 

 

Exactly 2 years ago, my Dell desktop running Win 7 64 bit bit the dust.  I found an HP desktop refurb running Win 7 64 git for $184 on walmart.com, and it runs like a top.  I have never upgraded the OS on an existing system, and only did so when I bought a new PC, but I will run Win 7 on this box until it dies.  When MS declared end of life for Win XP, many still continued to run it, including many businesses and even government agencies.  As long as you use 3rd party Internet security programs and browsers, you should be okay running Win 7 for a long time if you choose to do so.

----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:27 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

 

I had to upgrade to ten. My system got too old. Back in 2016 when you got this free trial to try ten. I don’t know if my old acer was able to handle it.  It had burned out ports. Plus the sound card got burned out.  I do banking online.  That’s why I did upgrade to ten. Even if 7 was not going to be supported next year. I was going to leave it anyway for that reason! 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: March 11, 2019 1:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

 

To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10 I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not upgrade.

You can and I have people that have  but have had so many system issues they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup, windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I  don't have a system that uses it, I do have a coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.

 

 

On 12/03/2019 2:50 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.

 

 

 

On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP

But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier

That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation

On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 

 

 

To the membership:

           . . . the only thing I can say is, please don't do this.   If you have a topic you wish to discuss that has nothing whatsoever to do with a topic that's ongoing then create a new one, and in the appropriate venue, be it the main group or the chat subgroup.

           A recent double hijacking has been observed and the offending member notified that this is not something that's acceptable to do, ever.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Sorry if this comment seems a bit off topic, I understand that but the reason for this is very important. Please read below and you understand why

 

Hello  dear group members, I am looking for people who finished or currently attending higher education.  I am doing a research for my 4th year project that involves analysis of experiences in higher education for blind and visually impaired individuals.

It is a questionnaire type of research, I totally get it if you think that not today, or someone else will do it, I'm really asking you to do it, because this research is very important,

I know answering survey questions is in the best time spent and it is annoying however please, please provide your feedback.

I struggled in higher education myself for 4 years, but I am finally in the 4th year last semester.    of my IT course. From my own experience I understand that many blind and visually impaired individuals have a hard time while studying in higher education due to the various reasons related to visual requirements of the course or support and understanding from the lecturers.

That is exactly the reason for this project, and therefore every answer is very important not for my project only, but also for all of us.

 

Some of you may answered this questionnaire before because it was posted before , however it is a new survey because I screwed that previous survey,  I had to fix the mistakes in the old one. And the outcome is that I had to create a new survey because platform didn't allow to modified the questions.

If you answered this survey previously I really appreciate that please do it again because I am lacking responses for the new one I had 44 in the previous one and a new one has only 11 responses thus far.

thank you very much for your help I really appreciate that, it is a tough job getting responses to the surveys, because I am aware that people like to skip them and understand why because it seems uninteresting,  but this 1 I think is important for blind and visually impaired community I designed that myself and that comes from my own experiences.

I am Leaving the link below so you can participate in find more about the questionnaire

 

http://bit.ly/2tZaHse

----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 7:27 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

I had to upgrade to ten. My system got too old. Back in 2016 when you got this free trial to try ten. I don’t know if my old acer was able to handle it.  It had burned out ports. Plus the sound card got burned out.  I do banking online.  That’s why I did upgrade to ten. Even if 7 was not going to be supported next year. I was going to leave it anyway for that reason! 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: March 11, 2019 1:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

 

To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10 I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not upgrade.

You can and I have people that have  but have had so many system issues they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup, windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I  don't have a system that uses it, I do have a coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.

 

 

On 12/03/2019 2:50 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.

 

 

 

On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP

But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier

That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation

On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 

 

 

Hi. I am using the NVDA latest Beta and, it is working well.  When I am notified that there are Add on updates when first starting NVDA, the update shows an error message when I attempt the update from the notification.  When I go to the update Add on from the NVDA menu, it works as usual----well and efficiently.

Has anyone else had the issue with the Add on update notification?

Ian Westerland

To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10 I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not upgrade.

You can and I have people that have  but have had so many system issues they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup, windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I  don't have a system that uses it, I do have a coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.

 

 

 

On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP

But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier

That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation

On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 

 

USC, Locked Bag 4, Maroochydore DC, Queensland, 4558 Australia.
CRICOS Provider No: 01595D
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This email is confidential. If received in error, please delete it from your system.

While we're on this topic I remember that someone had written an add-on which, more or less, allowed users to operate NVDA along with the Windows Magnifier, treating NVDA as though it were a part of Magnifier, similar to Zoomtext Magnifier/Reader. Of course, this addon was not needed since you could run both at the same time anyway but the addon made it easier to adjust magnification options along with NVDA. I can remember very little else about it and it likely will exhibit issues if it hasn't been updated to support later NVDA versions. It also was not part of the official community addons page although there was nothing illegal or inappropriate about it.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 3/11/2019 8:59 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

I had mixed results when attempting to enable full screen magnification on Windows 7. As someone on this list stated it does partly depend on which theme is active. However, even when I was using a supported theme the results were inconsistent. At times, full screen mode from within Magnifier was available, whereas at other times it seemed to mysteriously be unavailable. Perhaps there was a trick or technique that was not obvious to me but, when I was working with Windows 7 with my students, I was not getting consistent results.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 3/10/2019 11:55 PM, Desert Moon via Groups.Io wrote:

Hello Adrian,

 

Windows 7 does not offer full screen magnification. If this is what you need, do explore ZoomText 2019.You can download it from:

 

https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/ZoomText

 

It runs in a 40-minute demo mode. Not portable. That version is sold in a USB stick.

 

Windows 10 offers some high contrast modes and colour filters. Unless you need a peculiar colour scheme, I do not see why you need ZoomText. When it comes to screen reading, NVDA gives you much more than ZoomText can.

 

--
Desert