Date   

Re: dicts in python

 

Explain what?

If you are looking for information regarding coding of Python dictionaries that wouldn't be something that's on-topic for this group, but is right up the alley of the NVDA Screen Reader Development Group, whose e-mail addresses are included for reference:


The folks there can also point you in the right direction if the nitty-gritty of what you want to do isn't really NVDA-related, but more of a Python coding enterprise.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


dicts in python

Kerryn Gunness <k_gunness@...>
 

guys
could someone explain the subject line using NVDA?
how does it work and how to write it
thanks


Re: best site for addons

Sam Bushman
 

How do you add the emoticons?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] best site for addons

Here's the link 😊

https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Paton
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] best site for addons

Hello,

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site. Where should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app essentials?
What am I missing apart from a brain cell?

JP?


Re: best site for addons

molly the blind tech lover
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Paton
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] best site for addons

Hello,

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site. Where should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app essentials?
What am I missing apart from a brain cell?

JP?


best site for addons

Joe Paton
 

Hello,

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site. Where should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app essentials?
What am I missing apart from a brain cell?

JP?


Re: CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Gene
 

I see you have punctuation processing off.  Try turning it on.  If that doesn't help, turn it off again, and try using the speech dictionary.  Try placing a colon in the word field and a space in the pronounced as field and see what happens.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Hi,

I tested the NVDA eloquence/vocalizer nvda-addon from atguys.com and it does the same thing. It pauses significantly when reading the time. NVDA punctuation is set to some, and in eloquence settings I have the emoji processing and punctuation processing, number processing, and dictionary all turned off and unchecked. In fact everything in there is unchecked because I prefer to control it with the NVDA dialogs instead.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Gene
 

Its probably pausing excessively at the colon.  I don't know if you can correct the problem.  it sounds like a problem in the programming itself. 
Is there a setting regarding the add-on or the SAPI 5 program that allows you to make the screen-reader handle punctuation or to let the screen-reader handle aspects of how things are read that are now lleft to the synthesizer?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Hi,

I tested the NVDA eloquence/vocalizer nvda-addon from atguys.com and it does the same thing. It pauses significantly when reading the time. NVDA punctuation is set to some, and in eloquence settings I have the emoji processing and punctuation processing, number processing, and dictionary all turned off and unchecked. In fact everything in there is unchecked because I prefer to control it with the NVDA dialogs instead.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi,

I tested the NVDA eloquence/vocalizer nvda-addon from atguys.com and it does the same thing. It pauses significantly when reading the time. NVDA punctuation is set to some, and in eloquence settings I have the emoji processing and punctuation processing, number processing, and dictionary all turned off and unchecked. In fact everything in there is unchecked because I prefer to control it with the NVDA dialogs instead.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


CodeFactory sapi5 eloquence and reading the time and date

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi,

With sapi5 eloquence by CodeFactory, when I press insert f12 for the time, eloquence reads it, but pauses for a long time in the middle of reading it. Like this.

 

 

12 … 32 … pm …

 

What settings in NVDA or in the CodeFactory eloquence can I change so it does not pause?

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Giving the right amount of feedback

Tyler Spivey
 

I agree with you, and it's not just state transitions.

NVDA really doesn't focus on user experience, and it shows. I can count some things off the top of my head.

1. The focus issues. There are threads about this on this list. I seem to remember there being code in NVDA which will drop focus events if too many of them come in.
2. If you have NVDA going through a specific audio device and you switch your default, NVDA will simply stop speaking, or switch to another audio device.
3. NVDA uses a keyboard hook to intercept all keys. Sometimes it gets into a state where it doesn't pass the keys anywhere.
the result of this is your keyboard no longer works, except for win+l and ctrl+alt+delete. If you press ctrl+alt+delete, you might think you can launch task manager.
As soon as you do, you're back on your normal desktop with NVDA still capturing the keyboard.
The only thing you can do is sign out, losing some or all of your work, or figure out how to kill NVDA either with a second account or with a non-keyboard-based solution.
4. NVDA has a review cursor. In consoles and edit fields, if I press NVDA+backspace, NVDA moves my navigator to the focus, where I can use that review cursor to review my text again if I moved it.
This is useful for, say, finding the top of a function in my editor without moving the system cursor.
However, what happens if you do this same thing in browse mode? Your navigator gets moved to the focus, but you then can't move the review cursor around like you could when you first entered the browser. IIRC this is by design.
5. If a program stops responding, NVDA goes with it. Take Event Viewer.
View one event's details with enter. From there, press escape and be prepared to figure out how to get NVDA back, because it's most likely going to stop speaking.
6. We know that in notepad, WordPad, Microsoft Word, and other applications, we can press ctrl+f to find things.
However, in browsers, we need to use ctrl+NVDA+f. Why? Because NVDA doesn't want to override the inaccessible browser find dialog.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things. But IMO, none of this is good user experience.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 12:49 AM, Perry Simm wrote:
Hi!
Lately I've been wondering about the research that has been done to figure out the right amount of feedback that NVDA should give in different circumstances. These thoughts were triggered by the following incident:
I opened up Chrome, and it came up "not responding" which, on a slow machine, can sometimes happen and is no immediate cause of concern for me. My Braille display kept showing "New Tab - Google Chrome (Not Responding)". I decided to wait it out before throwing key presses at it. When neither speech nor Braille updated for about two minutes, I decided to press tab and, much to my confusion, found that Chrome had recovered and was fully prepared to take my instructions.
When something goes from not responding to ready, wouldn't it be logical to expect NVDA to tell me about this transition without me having to poll?
I have a nagging suspicion, and I apologize for sounding overly critical here, that these user experience patterns are not researched at all, not even consciously specified. Rather, they are just left to random luck based on how the operating system decides to handle or propagate events. In a world where nearly every aspect of user experiences is designed and micromanaged, I feel we are lagging behind and left with unprofessional hit or miss situations. What we need are reliable, reproducible patterns or sequences which can be taught to students, fully duplicated by them, and then applied consistently, especially in workplace environments. State transitions like the one I described above must be just as obvious to the NVDA user as they are to the sighted user if he or she has been trained to recognize them.
This is not rocket science. If fifty years ago it was possible to program a computer to behave consistently enough to get people to the moon, then today it must not only be possible but trivial to program it to deal consistently with common everyday exceptions while working with email and the web. For people on the autism spectrum, for example, digital systems can be a bedrock of certainty and consistency in an otherwise random sea of white noise.
I am seeing strong indicators that user experience research in the area of screen readers is overdue. Most importantly, however, the user experience should always be a conscious decision, never left to fate or accident.
Cheers Perry


Re: taking ownership of files

 

A Chat Subgroup topic will not be necessary, as Josh has posted to several other venues, including the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group, where this level of detail is decidedly on topic.

For those interested, see the topic there entitled:   Taking Ownership of System Files under Windows 10
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: want fire fox

Jarek.Krcmar
 

Hello,

it's better to download from:

http://www.mozilla.org

Jarek

Dne 22.07.2019 v 6:51 sazid shaik napsal(a):

as i used to download from filehippo.com
as coming to favorite no idea. now the fire fox is crashing and it is
not working on windows sirvice pack . hence i need fire fox<div
id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
<table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
<tr>
<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
href="https://www.avast.com/en-in/recommend?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=default3&tag=36da8cc1-460e-4857-b5bf-87d3432a4669"
target="_blank"><img
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"
alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
/></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e;
font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
line-height: 18px;">I’m protected online with Avast Free Antivirus. <a
href="https://www.avast.com/en-in/recommend?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=default3&tag=36da8cc1-460e-4857-b5bf-87d3432a4669"
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height="1"></a></div>

On 7/22/19, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hello.
whats your favorite version of firefox?
i am sure that all versions of firefox are accessible.
where you download your firefox from?

On 7/22/19, sazid shaik <ashwaqahmed.nlr@gmail.com> wrote:
hello friends,
i am using windows 7, version 6.1 with service pack 1. I am unable to
open fire fox on my system.

hence i request to share accessible fire fox version.

thanks and regards,
sazid



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali



--
Jarek


Re: taking ownership of files

 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 02:59 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Maybe someone more familiar with these settings can chime in. I admit I was a bit confused and feel like I kind of muddled my way through to success.
I just figured out how to do this.   That being said, the "how to" is so unrelated to anything NVDA-specific that it should be taken to the Chat Subgroup.

If anyone wants to discuss this in detail, launch a topic there and I will chime in.   I see no point in starting one myself since I do not know whether those who may be interested have or have not subscribed to the Chat Subgroup.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:09 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
There is a third dimension introduced in 2019.2: rate boost for OneCore.
Thanks for the heads-up!

Like so many things, there are many times when tweaking one thing in one spot will not carry over to other spots because there's something else in those other spots that takes precedence.   Interactions are a PITA, and it seems that volume settings are another of those areas where issues crop up where multiple levels of control are involved.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

Hi,

There is a third dimension introduced in 2019.2: rate boost for OneCore.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 7:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

I'm just curious if this is an issue no matter what the voice speed?

You can nudge the voice speed up in Windows and couple that with NVDA tweaks, too.

If you go to Settings, Time & Language, Speech, under the Voices section you should see the OneCore voice you're using (and I'm presuming you're using one) with a slider beneath it for Voice Speed and a button beneath that to Preview Voice.

You also need to look at what the Voice Rate in NVDA is set to, as these two things play off each other.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

I'm just curious if this is an issue no matter what the voice speed?

You can nudge the voice speed up in Windows and couple that with NVDA tweaks, too.

If you go to Settings, Time & Language, Speech, under the Voices section you should see the OneCore voice you're using (and I'm presuming you're using one) with a slider beneath it for Voice Speed and a button beneath that to Preview Voice.

You also need to look at what the Voice Rate in NVDA is set to, as these two things play off each other.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: CodeFactory eloquence addon and oneCore voices

Ed Marquette
 

I hope you have administrator authority.
We tried what you suggested, namely, installing at home outside of all of the security restrictions. It worked; however, when we tried to use it in the office without administrator privileges, the system failed again.
System apparently requires administrator privileges to stay authorized.
That is a very poor poor design.



On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:13 PM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:

Hi,

I just tested out the CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer addon by activating a trial of it on my RCA cambio tablet with intel atom z8350 processor, 2gigs ram and 32gb EMMC ssd drive. It works good with no crackling. And then, next, I loaded my sapi5 eloquence, and set the settings the same as the CodeFactory nvda-addon. And really I cannot tell any difference between the two. They are both just as responsive, they both are stable and work good. I think that next month I will just save my money and buy the vocalizer CodeFactory sapi5 voices, and leave it at that. And some day if and when I ever have a job that requires me to take NVDA from computer to computer on a USB stick, then I’ll buy the CodeFactory nvda-addon. Oh and to the person having issues activating the CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer NVDA addon… Why not install it at home, activate it at home in a place where you know the activation process works, then once its activated and you have all the voices you want and need, copy the whole thing including addons to a USB stick, take it to your work machine and install NVDA off the USB stick? Not sure if that would work and if it would stay activated or not. But the one thing I like about the CodeFactory sapi5 voices is that they also work with narrator. And I did use feedback hub to write to Microsoft and I asked them to let us change advanced oneCore voice settings so we can adjust when and how the voices pause while reading. So I hope they implement those changes.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi Josh,

not as far as I'm aware. I actually would like to do the opposite, occasionally be able to make punctuation pause longer! Sometimes I use NVDA to perform poetry to an audience (my memory capacity is for about half an hour of my own work so for longer sets than that I use NVDA). It would be nice to be able to fine-tune the pause, or to combine a full stop / period with a comma to get a little longer pause, but sadly that doesn't seem to work and only the synth makers could alter the synth to pause for shorter or longer.

I'd love to know if anybody has found a way of adjusting punctuation pausing :)

Giles


Re: Giving the right amount of feedback

Gene
 

Its an interesting question, but I don't know if it is possible or practical.  There may be too much possible variation and it may cause problems that don't exist now, with things being read inappropriately.  I'm speaking as a user who is not a tech and other technically knowledgeable people may have more accurate comments and opinions. 
 
I think that, what would be far more useful, is a simple list of a few things or one or two, depending on the situation, of things to do if a problem occurs. 
 
First, as your example illustrates, people often waste a lot of time because they have the idea that you have to wait for long times if something goes wrong.  I've heard of people letting their computer sit for fifteen minutes or even hours if something happens such as an installation stopping or something hanging.  That shows a complete lack of knowledge about what should be expected.  What is the maximum time that people should wait?  I don't know, but I doubt it is more then three or four minutes. 
 
Also, people should be taught to check and not just wait, even a short time after something like a freeze or something temporarily stopping.  Take your case, for example.  I wouldn't be surprised if the program started functioning somewhere between ten and thirty or forty seconts after the not responding message. 
 
If you tabbed frequently to see what happened, you wouldn't have changed anything, except your position on the page and you wouldn't have waited, based on an estimage with no basis in what was actually going on with the operating system and the program.
 
Also, people should know certain very elementary knowledge such as the following:
Losing speech may or may not mean that your screen-reader has stopped working.  It may mean that the synthesizer has stopped working.  What to do if a screen-reader stops should be one of the early things taught.  I'm not sure what the best procedures are or the best order if speech is lost when using NVDA.  I know what the best procedures and order are on my systems, but my systems don't represent whatever the average system is and my procedures may not be the order to be stated as a general pattern.  But clear and simple instructions, do this, then do that, etc. should be provided. 
 
In short. screen-readers are complex programs and they interact with a complex operating system.  My opinion is that it is far more important, and may be far more useful for users to be taught simple points about what to do.
 
Also, screen-readers don't necessarily react in the best manner for efficient use in some situations.  Users should be given simple instructions about getting rid of excess verbosity.
 
For example, if you do a search on a web page, using NVDA search, you will hear a lot of extra verbosity when a result is found.  When you hear speech, issue read current line.  That stops the excess verbosity and immediately reads the line containing the search result.
When I read an e-mail message, then close the message and return to the message list, a lot of unnecessary information is spoken.  Pressing read current line immediately stops it and reads what I want.  Maybe I don't need to hear what it is saying because I know what message I am on.  If I press delete or use shift delete, that immediately stops speech and deletes the message.  But again, when my position changes to the next message, a lot of unnecessary information is read.  Read current line stops it and reads what I want to hear, information about the message I am on. 
 
These are very simple instructions and can save a lot of time, perhaps three or five seconds in the cases I've mentioned.  When added up over a lot of repetitions, you are talking about a good deal of time and likely, a lot of annoyance, which will be eliminated by following the instructions. 
 
For convenience, I use numpad 8 because it only requires one hand. 
 
You can't use a screen-reader at its best performance unless you know how to help it with instructions like this.  It appears to me that, because of the complexity of screen-readers, Windows, and programs, you need to know that where you get excessive verbosity in cases like this, that what I discussed should be tried, or if something else makes sense to try, that might be tried instead, or as well.
 
The expectation of users of screen-readers should be changed.  Screen-readers can do a lot but the user needs to know a little to get good performance in certain cases.  I assume that if such behavior could have been changed by screen-reader designers, that it would have long ago, considering the over a decade that Windows screen-readers have been around and these behaviors have been regularly encountered.  It really shouldn't have taken until now for users to be informed, as standard procedure, in instructional material about such things as I am describing and that they be taught that you can't expect screen-readers to perform ideally and you need to be on the alert for things you might do in situations of excessive verbosity such as I have described.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 2:48 AM
Subject: [nvda] Giving the right amount of feedback

Hi!
Lately I've been wondering about the research that has been done to figure out the right amount of feedback that NVDA should give in different circumstances. These thoughts were triggered by the following incident:
I opened up Chrome, and it came up "not responding" which, on a slow machine, can sometimes happen and is no immediate cause of concern for me. My Braille display kept showing "New Tab - Google Chrome (Not Responding)". I decided to wait it out before throwing key presses at it. When neither speech nor Braille updated for about two minutes, I decided to press tab and, much to my confusion, found that Chrome had recovered and was fully prepared to take my instructions.
When something goes from not responding to ready, wouldn't it be logical to expect NVDA to tell me about this transition without me having to poll?
I have a nagging suspicion, and I apologize for sounding overly critical here, that these user experience patterns are not researched at all, not even consciously specified. Rather, they are just left to random luck based on how the operating system decides to handle or propagate events. In a world where nearly every aspect of user experiences is designed and micromanaged, I feel we are lagging behind and left with unprofessional hit or miss situations. What we need are reliable, reproducible patterns or sequences which can be taught to students, fully duplicated by them, and then applied consistently, especially in workplace environments. State transitions like the one I described above must be just as obvious to the NVDA user as they are to the sighted user if he or she has been trained to recognize them.
This is not rocket science. If fifty years ago it was possible to program a computer to behave consistently enough to get people to the moon, then today it must not only be possible but trivial to program it to deal consistently with common everyday exceptions while working with email and the web. For people on the autism spectrum, for example, digital systems can be a bedrock of certainty and consistency in an otherwise random sea of white noise.
I am seeing strong indicators that user experience research in the area of screen readers is overdue. Most importantly, however, the user experience should always be a conscious decision, never left to fate or accident.
Cheers Perry



Re: taking ownership of files

Josh Kennedy
 

I wish there were an easier way overall to adjust the settings in the microsoft oneCore tts voices, ini files, maybe through the windows settings, through NVDA advanced options, or some sort of dialog box. I would use the oneCore voices if I could make them read very nice and smooth like eloquence reads.