Date   

Anyone having trouble with NVDA remote?

Mobeen Iqbal
 

Hello Everyone.

Running NVDA 2019.1.1 with windows 10 1809. NVDA remote was working fine up until a few days ago. It's no longer working for me. I've tried disabling all of my add-ons and just leaving NVDA remote enabled to rule out an add-on conflict all to no avail. When I try to go in to remote options or connect, I don't get any dialogue displayed. Anyone got any ideas?

Cheers,

Mo.


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

 

This topic is now locked.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Add-on Updater 19.07.2 #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

 

Add-on Updater 19.07.2 is on its way. This one registers Developer Toolkit from Andy B to add-on update facility. Depending on which Windows version you’re using and you have opted into notification experiment, NVDA will either present a dialog or a toast notification.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Gene
 

Show me any specific message or messages that attack people or imply they are stupid.  You have the entire archive at your disposal.  Either provide specifics or stop repeating your charge.  I do not talk down to people.  And this isn't a case like Windows ME.  It is a case where people are upgrading computers that work well.  In the case of Windows ME, my bet is that most people used Windows 98 if they already had it. 
 
Why do you mention XP?  That system works well. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

And while there have been issues with Windows 10 and Microsoft releasing it in a damaged or dysfunctional condition, this isn't the first time they have done this and I never remember you saying not to upgrade to any other system.  Remember Windows ME?  How about XP itself which was supposed to run every program going back to DOS 5.0 when it was first being developed that didn't even have a true DOS interface? 

Constantly telling people that they're effectively lacking in knowledge (coming off some times as if saying they were stupid) is not a good way to educate people asking for advice.


On 7/13/2019 8:24 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Gene
 

I didn't say that people shouldn't use Windows 10.  I didn't say the interface is a problem.  I seriously question the advisability of people upgrading to Windows 10 from Windows 7 or 8 if they are satisfied with them for technical reasons I've given 
 
You point out one problem with Excel and somehow criticize me for taking awhile to say that it is an accessibility problem.  Once the discussion established that it was, I said it was.  I don't use Excel and couldn't test myself.  That has nothing to do with ribbons per se.  It is one accessibility problem with one feature on one program.  Discourage people from learning things?  The whole reason I vigorously disagree with those who talk about how difficult ribbons are to use ist to encourage people to learn new things.
 
And I'm sure I didn't attack you at any time during our discussion, just as I am not now.  I do disagree vigorously with people who say, ribbons are terrible, or such general statements.  Why?  Because I want to encourage people to learn things.
 
My Windows 10 position has nothing to do with any general disposition about wanting or not wanting people to learn new things.  It is because I believe there are problems with the way Microsoft administers Windows 10, two upgrades a year when I don't think it can adequately test two upgrades a year before release to avoid problems that may be serious.  Or if it can, it hasn't been doing so properly.  And if you look at technology articles, many writers are unhappy with the Windows 10 upgrades.
 
And I never say to people, don't buy a new computer with Windows 10 already on it.  I'm talking solely about upgrading machines that people are satisfied with.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

brandon
 

The current version of Itunes at least of my computer is accessible until I want to grab something from the store. It seems to lag and use a lot of my processing power and it takes forever to see what is on the store page.

That is why I was wondering if the windows store version of Itunes would be better.

Thanks.

Brandon


On 7/13/2019 1:30 AM, Robert Doc Wright godfearer wrote:

iTunes is useful and accessible. Where have you been having problems? I use it all the time.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: brandon
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 10:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

 

Hi all,

 

 

I have been trying to get the most current version of Itunes to work

well on my computer. It seems that they don't want to play nice right

now NVDA and itunes both are very sluggish and both processor intensive.

 

I was wondering since there is a itunes for windows 10 if that would

work well with nvda rather then the current non-windows 10 verson.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

 

Brandon

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

Sarah k Alawami
 

Isn't there a setting in nvda that talks about excel and editing cells? I can't remember but a search of the archive should be able to help you a bit. If not the setting might be in NVDa. I don't use excel, nor do I ever hope to, at least not right now.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 13 Jul 2019, at 5:36, "Marvin Atkins" wrote:

Ed,

One thing I always check when F2 doesn't work is to make sure the excel screen is maximized.

-----Original Message----- From: Ed Marquette
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 3:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

All:

I’m not an expert Excel user, but I am not a novice either. I’ve been using Excel 2013 until about three weeks ago.
To edit a cell, I have always just pressed F-2. Since moving to Excel 2016 (from Office 365), this function no longer provides feedback.
In other words, after pressing F-2, NVDA is silent when using the arrow keys to locate the precise location at which to edit. One of my colleagues noted that the cursor is indeed in the edit box and that it does in fact move when the arrow keys move, but none of the text reading commands work in the edit box. My colleague, a sighted patent lawyer, was glad to hear about the F-2 function; it is much faster than the sighted world’s default way of editing cells (by using the mouse to click into the edit box after highlighting the desired cell.
So, Excel is doing what it is supposed to do with F-2. NVDA is not.
By the way JAWS has exactly the same problem. Both screen readers used to work just fine in the Excel 2013 world.
Neither works in the Excel 2016 world.
Of course, none of our IT folks has a clew. In fact, none of them had ever heard of using F-2.
By the way, I’m using a brand new Lenovo Yoga laptop and no, this isn’t related to the default function key assignments Lenovo assigns. I’m using a USB keyboard (in fact, two different USB keyboards).
Suggestions would be appreciated.

Ps
I just double-checked Quinten’s tutorial on using Excel, and he too advocates using
F-2. I’m stumped.


Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

Don H
 

I think I heard in the news that ITunes is going away soon.

On 7/13/2019 8:30 AM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
Hi Brandon,
I use the latest version of iTunes on a Win10 PC. iTunes is sometimes tricky to navigate but it is just a question of getting used to it. In the help menu (annoyingly the names of the menus aren't spoken for me, but by arrowing down the menu you can hear what the options are) and there is keyboard shortcuts information in the help menu, which is the furthest right menu as with most pieces of software .
I ran into trouble the other day when 3 tracks from an album I had bought would not play in WinAmp nor in iTunes ... it kept prompting me to login to iTunes but, after logging in and trying to play the track, it again took me to the login / "authorise this computer" page.
I Googled the email contact for iTunes and contacted them with the problem. I had a very good and quick response from a person on the support team. The problem didn't get sorted so he suggested I phoned and asked to speak to the technical support team, which I did. My call to them lasted for about an hour and, as we weren't getting a totally satisfactory solution (the track would play on my iPhone but not on my Windows PC in iTunes or WinAmp) I mentioned that I was blind and using NVDA ... and he put me through to a disabilities team and that team helped me re-download the tracks I'd purchased and that did fix the problematic playback issue!
The one thing I was impressed with was that I never felt I was being pushed from one team to the next ... each one tried their best to help me and, if I'd known there was a team that deals with disabled people and is aware of NVDA and JAWS, then I would probably got a quicker answer.
Often when a new version of iTunes is made available I don't tend to install it right away, just to give chance for any issues to be reported to iTunes and for them to fix them! :)
Giles


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Hareth
 

Hi Ron,
I don't have much trouble using ribbons.
But most of the people I give help and support do, for various reasons.
BTW, The hardest curve with them, Do to the structure, it has been
left to the interface developers and designers with each app. So
virtually to avoid a lot of tabbing away to find what you need, you
have to memorize your moves as hotkeys for the next time of same
usage.
Unlike the old menus its almost unified cross apps moves.
E.G alt+v, to the view, alt+t for tools, ETC.
That's the reason most of us prefer the classic menus.
I'm going to leave it here, as the discussion went very far, and it
changes nothing.
Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Harreth,

I agree with you on the ribbons, unfortunately, they're not going away
any time soon. A good source for a ribbon tutorial is Ann Parson's
audio (mp3 format) tutorials. I am not sure if those are free or not,
but I believe she posted them on the Blinds Tech list a few months ago.
Maybe she would appreciate a donation?


On 7/13/2019 8:44 AM, Hareth wrote:
greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of
accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges. Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system. I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone. I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc. That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing. There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction. And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning. If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this? I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing. And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months. I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users. While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10. I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible. If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine. If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level. But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7. and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer. It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds. I haven't used Windows 10. As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7. As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10. I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features. Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well. This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly. It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development. In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice. Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP. Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites. If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers. When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year. Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one. I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users. And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility. Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change. I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired. But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did
it
big time and I have no issues. If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely. But if it is simply a fear of the unknown,
rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal. I bet you would get used to
it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using
it you
are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now
I;m on ten
I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it
or not I
had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:
notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the
internet in
any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi Brandon,

I use the latest version of iTunes on a Win10 PC. iTunes is sometimes tricky to navigate but it is just a question of getting used to it. In the help menu (annoyingly the names of the menus aren't spoken for me, but by arrowing down the menu you can hear what the options are) and there is keyboard shortcuts information in the help menu, which is the furthest right menu as with most pieces of software .

I ran into trouble the other day when 3 tracks from an album I had bought would not play in WinAmp nor in iTunes ... it kept prompting me to login to iTunes but, after logging in and trying to play the track, it again took me to the login / "authorise this computer" page.

I Googled the email contact for iTunes and contacted them with the problem. I had a very good and quick response from a person on the support team. The problem didn't get sorted so he suggested I phoned and asked to speak to the technical support team, which I did. My call to them lasted for about an hour and, as we weren't getting a totally satisfactory solution (the track would play on my iPhone but not on my Windows PC in iTunes or WinAmp) I mentioned that I was blind and using NVDA ... and he put me through to a disabilities team and that team helped me re-download the tracks I'd purchased and that did fix the problematic playback issue!

The one thing I was impressed with was that I never felt I was being pushed from one team to the next ... each one tried their best to help me and, if I'd known there was a team that deals with disabled people and is aware of NVDA and JAWS, then I would probably got a quicker answer.

Often when a new version of iTunes is made available I don't tend to install it right away, just to give chance for any issues to be reported to iTunes and for them to fix them! :)

Giles


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Harreth,

I agree with you on the ribbons, unfortunately, they're not going away any time soon.  A good source for a ribbon tutorial is Ann Parson's audio (mp3 format) tutorials.  I am not sure if those are free or not, but I believe she posted them on the Blinds Tech list a few months ago.  Maybe she would appreciate a donation?

On 7/13/2019 8:44 AM, Hareth wrote:
greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using
it you
are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now
I;m on ten
I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it
or not I
had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:
notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the
internet in
any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Hareth
 

greetings,
Despite the wishfully simplified some like to picture ribbons,
And Even if we mastered the use of them, They are at least disliked,
If not out-right hate to use them, that's for the most of us.
And that's the way with a lot of sighted people as well.
Plus some forgot that the ease of usage is a major factor of accessibility
Ribbons are not, and never will be, as easy to use and memorize as the
classic menus, Plane and simple.

Regards

On 7/13/19, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds
like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.
My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed
out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus
lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you
finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that
wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further
deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave
up after 3 days.

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court
rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies
who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.
but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such
as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's
because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is
because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by
wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't
received proper instruction and because they have heard so many
negative comments about from others who haven't received proper
instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become
more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because
they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear
itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the
person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging
many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have
viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong
feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons
which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious
problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped
releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of
further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad
upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was
nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among
users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a
Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate
that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows,
where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour,
upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it
is a matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply
think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of
waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who
don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who
want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If
people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If
someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am
not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where
support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking
resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10
and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus
possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind
computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far
as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface
of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my
impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never
experienced them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the
Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead
of the somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a
lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able
to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a
cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old
pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by
sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon
disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not
intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount
of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes
that affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I
don't know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if
there ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs
spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of
Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft
imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on
users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to
constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending
changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
*Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!

On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com
<mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using
it you
are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now
I;m on ten
I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it
or not I
had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another
operating
systems!

On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
<perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Hi!

On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:

notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the
internet in
any
way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for
it.
Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
Cheers Perry



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Ron Canazzi
 

And while there have been issues with Windows 10 and Microsoft releasing it in a damaged or dysfunctional condition, this isn't the first time they have done this and I never remember you saying not to upgrade to any other system.  Remember Windows ME?  How about XP itself which was supposed to run every program going back to DOS 5.0 when it was first being developed that didn't even have a true DOS interface? 

Constantly telling people that they're effectively lacking in knowledge (coming off some times as if saying they were stupid) is not a good way to educate people asking for advice.


On 7/13/2019 8:24 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

"Marvin Atkins"
 

Ed,

One thing I always check when F2 doesn't work is to make sure the excel screen is maximized.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Marquette
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 3:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Editing a Cell in Microsoft Excel

All:

I’m not an expert Excel user, but I am not a novice either. I’ve been using Excel 2013 until about three weeks ago.
To edit a cell, I have always just pressed F-2. Since moving to Excel 2016 (from Office 365), this function no longer provides feedback.
In other words, after pressing F-2, NVDA is silent when using the arrow keys to locate the precise location at which to edit. One of my colleagues noted that the cursor is indeed in the edit box and that it does in fact move when the arrow keys move, but none of the text reading commands work in the edit box. My colleague, a sighted patent lawyer, was glad to hear about the F-2 function; it is much faster than the sighted world’s default way of editing cells (by using the mouse to click into the edit box after highlighting the desired cell.
So, Excel is doing what it is supposed to do with F-2. NVDA is not.
By the way JAWS has exactly the same problem. Both screen readers used to work just fine in the Excel 2013 world.
Neither works in the Excel 2016 world.
Of course, none of our IT folks has a clew. In fact, none of them had ever heard of using F-2.
By the way, I’m using a brand new Lenovo Yoga laptop and no, this isn’t related to the default function key assignments Lenovo assigns. I’m using a USB keyboard (in fact, two different USB keyboards).
Suggestions would be appreciated.

Ps
I just double-checked Quinten’s tutorial on using Excel, and he too advocates using
F-2. I’m stumped.


beta3 - redundant speech when navigating treeviews in eclipse

Alexandre Alves Toco
 

Hi, when I press arrow up or down in a treeview (let’s say in package explorer) in eclipse, nvda beta3 is Reading the item I am leaving and the item that I move to.

In beta2 it didn’t happen.

Any one else with the same problem?

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Ron Canazzi
 

Well, this rant--long as usual--and very legalistic sounding--sounds like some of the arguments we are getting out of Washington these days.  My lack of advancement is justified but yours isn't!

Apparently you forget the go round we had over ribbons where I pointed out how an aspect of Excel that was very easy to do using the old menus lasted for about 3 days with over 20 exchanges.  Long story short, you finally had to admit that it was an accessibility issue in Excel that wasn't existing in the old menus system.  I could have further deconstructed your arguments back then a couple of years ago, but I gave up after 3 days. 

You come on at times like a defense lawyer arguing a case in court rather than an adviser of people who are on a list--some of them newbies who are afraid (as I was once) to try new things.



On 7/13/2019 5:56 AM, Gene wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

 

hi gene.
i dont understand the person who says you attacked people.
i dont remember from you except kindness, compassion, helpfulness and respect.
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you!

On 7/13/19, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone. I do not. but I
strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons
are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc. That's because I know,
from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are
laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab
through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up
arrowing. There are other things to learn but that is the essence of
ribbons compared to menus. My strong response, and I don't attack people
personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say
about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from
learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible
interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received
proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments
about from others who haven't received proper instruction. And once they
successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users,
more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had
to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.

If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong
way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't
be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from
learning. If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people,
I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a
tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once
when the topic has come up,.

What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this? I don't make up
widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for
some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps
about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.
And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months. I
don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of
confidence to regain among users. While the number of people asking about
problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough
to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of
Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people
didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading
Windows twice a year.

What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who
once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a
matter of fact?

And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10. I simply think
that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to
near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use
specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and
stable an operating system as possible. If people are curious or
experimenters or want new features, fine. If someone is buying a new
computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a
personal level. But I think that users should seriously consider the
advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of
support ending for Windows 7. and it also depends on how satisfied they are
with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer. It is my
impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on
top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things
before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as
possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit
blind computer users.

I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people
upgrading on those grounds. I haven't used Windows 10. As far as I can
tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is
similar to Windows 7. As far as I can tell, working with apps, not
applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is
similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there
isn't much learning to do.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++


Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are
uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some
say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10.

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10. I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced
them.

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows
8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the
somewhat standard search/start menu system.

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot
of Word/Excel/Access features. Yet, I muddle through and am able to get
by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake
walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days
sub menus of sub menus.

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted
people as well. This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs
coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the
blind.




On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:

This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why
I object to Windows 10 strongly. It also discusses how my objection is
related to screen-reader development. In my opinion, Windows 10 makes
screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources
constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.

At some point, you will have little choice. Increasingly fewer programs
will be supported in XP. Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer
sites. If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or
scanners will have XP compatible drivers. When XP will become so unusable
that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know.

My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per
year. Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major
upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no
problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps
one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only
one. I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience
and potential problems on users. And, from the standpoint of NVDA,
developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and
unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility. Lee releases one
release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++


Hi Zara,

I also d not like change. I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired. But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues. If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely. But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal. I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it
you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m
on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not
I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm=protonmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet
in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"






--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Gene
 

I sent out my tutorial concerning ribbons two or three weeks ago.  Did you get it?  Have you worked with it?
 
I didn't say that everyone would just pick up ribbons immediately, but with good instruction, people, for the most part, should not have much
difficulty learning ribbons.  They may like the way things were organized better using menus, but they should find ribbons very usable. 
 
I'll send the tutorial again under my signature in this message.
 
If you have questions or problems, please ask on the chat list since this is off topic for the main list.
 
And since this is off topic for the main list, I won't contribute further to the ribbon discussion here.  But I'm sending the tutorial here because the chat list doesn't have ten percent of the users on the main list, its current membership being somewhere around eighty-two members.
 
Gene
 
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  


locked Re: Lags With Notepad++

Gene
 

Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone.  I do not.  but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.  That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing.  There are other things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.  My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who haven't received proper instruction.  And once they successfully use ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this case was fear itself, as was famously said.
 
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from learning.  If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this, I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more than once when the topic has come up,. 
 
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this?  I don't make up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and testing.  And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last eighteen months.  I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users.  While the number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year. 
 
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a matter of fact? 
 
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10.  I simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as reliable and stable an operating system as possible.  If people are curious or experimenters or want new features, fine.  If someone is buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not personally criticial on a personal level.  But I think that users should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7.  and it also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support will continue longer.  It is my impression that Windows 10 is harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users. 
 
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to people upgrading on those grounds.  I haven't used Windows 10.  As far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface itself is similar to Windows 7.  As far as I can tell, working with apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is that there isn't much learning to do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Gene,

It's kind of funny how you at times viciously attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows 10. 

Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues when using
Windows 10.  I know there were issues with 1803, but I never experienced them. 

Getting used to the interface of Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu system. 

Use of the ribbons is much more of an issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.  Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.

By comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub menus of sub menus. 

These are facts--experienced not only by blind people but also by sighted people as well.  This is so much so that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are obviously not intended solely for the  blind.



On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.
 
At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 
 
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

iTunes is useful and accessible. Where have you been having problems? I use it all the time.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: brandon
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 10:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Is the windows10 version of itunes accessible with NVDA?

 

Hi all,

 

 

I have been trying to get the most current version of Itunes to work

well on my computer. It seems that they don't want to play nice right

now NVDA and itunes both are very sluggish and both processor intensive.

 

I was wondering since there is a itunes for windows 10 if that would

work well with nvda rather then the current non-windows 10 verson.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

 

Brandon