1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
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Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Gene
 

The JAWS find is control f.  They made it the same for consistency.  The Window-eyes find is control shift f and you know the NVDA command.
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage



On 26 Feb 2019, at 10:57, Gene wrote:

Window-eyes had a separate browse mode search, JAWS does and NVDA does.


We know this, but I don't think many of us use it. I was trained to use the windows find when I first got a computer in 2002 and I've used it ever since. so for me over the past almost 20 years it works. IN fact i don't ever recall using a jaws find, it was what ever the browser did when I had jaws in 2009. and to tell you the truth I didn't know about nvda find until this year, I always thought they were synonymous, until a few days ago.

My computer teachers always taught their newly blinded, or students the windows way first, the screen reader way second, and to me that is how it should be in case you use different screen readers, you will always know the windows way first at least.
Re: alt tab quits working at random when nvda is running

Sarah k Alawami
 

Darn. then the next time I turn on my computer it will be lost. I'll have to reproduce the isue, then send the log over. I can wait. and yeah this has happened now two times in the past 2 weeks.

Tc

On 26 Feb 2019, at 11:00, Tyler Spivey wrote:

You can only retrieve the log from one restart ago, at %temp%\nvda-old.log.

This has been an ongoing, annoying problem for NVDA for years. It was considerably worse before some UIA changes went in to 2018.4 (#7345). I don't think I've seen it since it was fixed.

On 2/26/2019 9:29 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

except I did not have explorer open. I had p3d, obs, firefox, project fly, skype, I think my mail program and that was about it. Is there a way retrieve the logs from 2 restarts of nvda ago or am I basically SOL until it happens again. I really do want to submit the log for this if possible.

On 26 Feb 2019, at 9:16, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I also get this but put it down to the same issue like open an
Explorer window and nvda will not register its open yet it is open
as cursor down brings it to life. Same goes sometimes in web sites
not auto reading or indeed not showing having focus either unless
you do something like open a menu and close it

I think that there is a kind of slugging effect going on in all
these scenarios that makes nvda not get the event it needs to detect
the changes reliably.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: "Nvda List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] alt tab quits working at random when nvda is running

Summary: when using alt tab to get from program to program, nvda
will
sometimes not an-ounce the program O'm on when holding alt and
hitting
tab

steps:

1. Launch nvda
2. Use nvda as normal and alt tab between many windows. I
sometimes have
between 5 and 10 running..
3. Notice that sometimes alt tab fails to speak the window I'm
on but
when I let go after let's say hitting tab 3 times I will gain
focus on
that window.

Regression: I can regress this to some builds last year, although I
thought it was a windows issue so never actually reported it..

Expected results:

I should be able to see the windows that i'm alt tabbing through
instead of getting silence

Windows version 10 1809 updated last Saturday to the latest.
32 gigs of ram, 4.0 ghz processor and 64 bit architecture.

Work around:
Restarting nvda always works to bring my alt tab behavior back.
I just
shut off my computer last night so no logs will be apparent. Is
there a
way I can retrieve the log from the time before I restarted nvda and
before I shut down the computer?


This is random so I can't really say when this happens or give any
pattern to how to make this happen.
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Sarah k Alawami
 



On 26 Feb 2019, at 10:57, Gene wrote:

Window-eyes had a separate browse mode search, JAWS does and NVDA does.


We know this, but I don't think many of us use it. I was trained to use the windows find when I first got a computer in 2002 and I've used it ever since. so for me over the past almost 20 years it works. IN fact i don't ever recall using a jaws find, it was what ever the browser did when I had jaws in 2009. and to tell you the truth I didn't know about nvda find until this year, I always thought they were synonymous, until a few days ago.

My computer teachers always taught their newly blinded, or students the windows way first, the screen reader way second, and to me that is how it should be in case you use different screen readers, you will always know the windows way first at least.
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Brian Vogel
 

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:50 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
but you can't go around telling people that the screen reader approach is the only approach for screen reader users, because that's just spreading misinformation.
It is the only approach that seems to work reliably for "the uninitiated."  That's all I really need to know.   It also seems to be the only way that's working reliably for quite a few of the very initiated, too.

I'd prefer to err on the side of caution with this one.  And with this, I'm done.  To each his or her own.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Marcio
 

I just wanted you to excuse me if I've wrote my last answer on a not common way that I'd write other ones. I'm just tired of hitting shift+delete, you know.
But that's fine, if we agree with each other let's stop here, let who want keep it up. Eventually others will do as well.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 26/02/2019 16:08, Travis Siegel escreveu:

Hah, you've clearly not read all the comments in this thread then if you're making that claim.

I was told very specificlaly that the screen reaer find command was the only way to find text ona web page, (multiple times I might add). But, you're right, this thread has definitely outlived it's usefulness.  If folks want to continue spreading misinformation, then that's their business.  I will post no longer on this thread.

On 2/26/2019 1:54 PM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Em 26/02/2019 15:50, Travis Siegel escreveu:

but you can't go around telling people that the screen reader approach is the only approach for screen reader users

Man, no one ever said this, not that I have seen so far!
We were only discussing and one was saying about what's the best in one's opinion, nothing else!
And know what? I'm bored with it all. Tired of the thread that I myself started. I just can't handle it anymore!
I wasn't even going to answer this one, however saying we did anything we didn't isn't the best thing to do, so here I am, for the last time.
Enough is enough, I for one won't contribute in this thread anymore.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Tyler Wood
 

Just to add here, the search box in question was Telegram's, not the find search box.


Though now that I say that, I just tried it again on a different website (youtube this time) and had to press escape twice to actually exit the find dialogue (which still did not function as expected).

On 2019-02-26 1:09 p.m., Tyler Wood via Groups.Io wrote:

I just tried that method here 5 times. I know the text was actually on the page - for reference, this was a telegram window in chrome. I searched for a person's name with control f. After pressing escape, I was still in the search box. Keep in mind that I was not in focus mode but I decided to arrow down a few times to get out of the search box and try again, just in case.


Still no results. Pressing control f, where the person's name still was, pressing enter, then escape still brought me to the top of the list of names - well above where that person actually was in the list. I then decided to try f3, the find next command. Not only does it put you back in the search box, by the way (NVDA plus f3 simply takes you to the next instance of that text), but it did absolutely nothing, again. My focus was still on the first person in the list.


Pressing NVDA control f and typing in the name actually placed focus on the name and I could press enter to message them without issue.


I'm sorry - This isn't false information. There is a reason why screen reader developers create specific commands for things. This is one of them.

On 2019-02-26 12:57 p.m., Gene wrote:
I have tried escape a number of times.  I'm not sure if it ever worked but it is not consistent.  I think it worked once and failed two or three times.  Besides, what is being discussed in terms of the cursor?  There is no cursor on the actual web page unless you are in an edit field.  So when something is searched for by a sighted person with control f, what happens?  Since there is no cursor, is the text placed in a certain area such as at the top of the document window?  Clearly, whatever is done, it is not reliable when used with browse mode.  I and others have reported that results are not consistent.  NVDA developers didn't go through the trouble of developing a browse mode find command just for enjoyment.  they did so because it is necessary.
 
Window-eyes had a separate browse mode search, JAWS does and NVDA does.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:13 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I open a web page, hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, press enter, then press escape,
You do realize, Travis, that you omitted that last part about pressing Escape until this very post.  And that's the pivotal trick to getting the method you use to work.

It is also, to me, a very kludgey way to get the same result that every screen reader gives you using its built-in search, and with no more key presses.  Having to press the modifier key as part of the search, rather than Escape after the search, is a heck of a lot more natural to me when working with a screen reader.

But, it's clear now that there is a technique that can be made to work if one chooses to use a straight browser search:  hitting Escape.    I still find the dead silence while I'm looking for something, particularly when that something repeats, particularly unhelpful.  I have been known, on rare occasions, to tell someone something like, "find the fifth occurrence of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" on the page.  I find that most of them find it much easier when they can hear occurrences one through four as they search through.

To each his or her own.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Hah, you've clearly not read all the comments in this thread then if you're making that claim.

I was told very specificlaly that the screen reaer find command was the only way to find text ona web page, (multiple times I might add). But, you're right, this thread has definitely outlived it's usefulness.  If folks want to continue spreading misinformation, then that's their business.  I will post no longer on this thread.

On 2/26/2019 1:54 PM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Em 26/02/2019 15:50, Travis Siegel escreveu:

but you can't go around telling people that the screen reader approach is the only approach for screen reader users

Man, no one ever said this, not that I have seen so far!
We were only discussing and one was saying about what's the best in one's opinion, nothing else!
And know what? I'm bored with it all. Tired of the thread that I myself started. I just can't handle it anymore!
I wasn't even going to answer this one, however saying we did anything we didn't isn't the best thing to do, so here I am, for the last time.
Enough is enough, I for one won't contribute in this thread anymore.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Tyler Wood
 

I just tried that method here 5 times. I know the text was actually on the page - for reference, this was a telegram window in chrome. I searched for a person's name with control f. After pressing escape, I was still in the search box. Keep in mind that I was not in focus mode but I decided to arrow down a few times to get out of the search box and try again, just in case.


Still no results. Pressing control f, where the person's name still was, pressing enter, then escape still brought me to the top of the list of names - well above where that person actually was in the list. I then decided to try f3, the find next command. Not only does it put you back in the search box, by the way (NVDA plus f3 simply takes you to the next instance of that text), but it did absolutely nothing, again. My focus was still on the first person in the list.


Pressing NVDA control f and typing in the name actually placed focus on the name and I could press enter to message them without issue.


I'm sorry - This isn't false information. There is a reason why screen reader developers create specific commands for things. This is one of them.

On 2019-02-26 12:57 p.m., Gene wrote:
I have tried escape a number of times.  I'm not sure if it ever worked but it is not consistent.  I think it worked once and failed two or three times.  Besides, what is being discussed in terms of the cursor?  There is no cursor on the actual web page unless you are in an edit field.  So when something is searched for by a sighted person with control f, what happens?  Since there is no cursor, is the text placed in a certain area such as at the top of the document window?  Clearly, whatever is done, it is not reliable when used with browse mode.  I and others have reported that results are not consistent.  NVDA developers didn't go through the trouble of developing a browse mode find command just for enjoyment.  they did so because it is necessary.
 
Window-eyes had a separate browse mode search, JAWS does and NVDA does.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:13 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I open a web page, hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, press enter, then press escape,
You do realize, Travis, that you omitted that last part about pressing Escape until this very post.  And that's the pivotal trick to getting the method you use to work.

It is also, to me, a very kludgey way to get the same result that every screen reader gives you using its built-in search, and with no more key presses.  Having to press the modifier key as part of the search, rather than Escape after the search, is a heck of a lot more natural to me when working with a screen reader.

But, it's clear now that there is a technique that can be made to work if one chooses to use a straight browser search:  hitting Escape.    I still find the dead silence while I'm looking for something, particularly when that something repeats, particularly unhelpful.  I have been known, on rare occasions, to tell someone something like, "find the fifth occurrence of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" on the page.  I find that most of them find it much easier when they can hear occurrences one through four as they search through.

To each his or her own.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

You answered your own question in your email.  There are several usage levels on the list, some folks are new, some are long time users, and everyone is probably at a different level on windows knowledge, never mind NVDA usage knowledge.  As a result, since the manual is a manual about NVDA, I would fully expect the manual to talk about the NVDA way to do things, since it's a manual for NVDA.  I haven't read the NVDA manual myself, but does it mention other windows keystrokes to do things when NVDA alternatives exist? If it does, and it doesn't mention control-f here, then I'd say that's an oversight that should be fixed.  If it doesn't, then I'd say it's following president, and since it's primary focus is on NVDA commands, then no mention of windows commands are necessary. 

On 2/26/2019 6:38 AM, Gene wrote:
I wasn't going to respond to your last message because I hoped that someone who speaks with the authority of a developer would respond.  They still may.  I wouldn't have continued to answer when it became clear that you wouldn't believe what I said if we were not on the list.  But this is an NVDA list with users who range from beginner to advanced.  I shall therefore quote from the manual.  Maybe you will think the manual writers know what they are talking about if you insist that I don't.
 
I tried using control f during the debate to make absolutely sure it doesn't work in browse mode.  It doesn't.  I wasn't moved to the result I was looking for. 
 
From the manual:
Find
NVDA+control+f
Pops up a dialog in which you can type some text to find in the current document
Find next
NVDA+f3
Finds the next occurrence of the text in the document that you previously searched for
Find previous
NVDA+shift+f3
Finds the previous occurrence of the text in the document you previously searched for
 
If control f could be used, don't you think it would have been stated in the manual and would be the command given?  Why give a command different from the general one used in Windows and Windows programs and a command that requires that an extra key be pressed when simply control f can be used. 
 
Gene

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Re: alt tab quits working at random when nvda is running

Tyler Spivey
 

You can only retrieve the log from one restart ago, at %temp%\nvda-old.log.

This has been an ongoing, annoying problem for NVDA for years. It was considerably worse before some UIA changes went in to 2018.4 (#7345). I don't think I've seen it since it was fixed.

On 2/26/2019 9:29 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
except I did not have explorer open. I had p3d, obs, firefox, project fly, skype, I think my mail program and that was about it. Is there a way retrieve the logs from 2 restarts of nvda ago or am I basically SOL until it happens again. I really do want to submit the log for this if possible.
On 26 Feb 2019, at 9:16, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I also get this but put it down to the same issue like open an
Explorer window and nvda will not register its open yet it is open
as cursor down brings it to life. Same goes sometimes in web sites
not auto reading or indeed not showing having focus either unless
you do something like open a menu and close it
I think that there is a kind of slugging effect going on in all
these scenarios that makes nvda not get the event it needs to detect
the changes reliably.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@gmail.com>
To: "Nvda List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] alt tab quits working at random when nvda is running
Summary: when using alt tab to get from program to program, nvda
will
sometimes not an-ounce the program O'm on when holding alt and
hitting
tab
steps:
1. Launch nvda
2. Use nvda as normal and alt tab between many windows. I
sometimes have
between 5 and 10 running..
3. Notice that sometimes alt tab fails to speak the window I'm
on but
when I let go after let's say hitting tab 3 times I will gain
focus on
that window.
Regression: I can regress this to some builds last year, although I
thought it was a windows issue so never actually reported it..
Expected results:
I should be able to see the windows that i'm alt tabbing through
instead of getting silence
Windows version 10 1809 updated last Saturday to the latest.
32 gigs of ram, 4.0 ghz processor and 64 bit architecture.
Work around:
Restarting nvda always works to bring my alt tab behavior back.
I just
shut off my computer last night so no logs will be apparent. Is
there a
way I can retrieve the log from the time before I restarted nvda and
before I shut down the computer?
This is random so I can't really say when this happens or give any
pattern to how to make this happen.
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Gene
 

I have tried escape a number of times.  I'm not sure if it ever worked but it is not consistent.  I think it worked once and failed two or three times.  Besides, what is being discussed in terms of the cursor?  There is no cursor on the actual web page unless you are in an edit field.  So when something is searched for by a sighted person with control f, what happens?  Since there is no cursor, is the text placed in a certain area such as at the top of the document window?  Clearly, whatever is done, it is not reliable when used with browse mode.  I and others have reported that results are not consistent.  NVDA developers didn't go through the trouble of developing a browse mode find command just for enjoyment.  they did so because it is necessary.
 
Window-eyes had a separate browse mode search, JAWS does and NVDA does.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:13 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I open a web page, hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, press enter, then press escape,
You do realize, Travis, that you omitted that last part about pressing Escape until this very post.  And that's the pivotal trick to getting the method you use to work.

It is also, to me, a very kludgey way to get the same result that every screen reader gives you using its built-in search, and with no more key presses.  Having to press the modifier key as part of the search, rather than Escape after the search, is a heck of a lot more natural to me when working with a screen reader.

But, it's clear now that there is a technique that can be made to work if one chooses to use a straight browser search:  hitting Escape.    I still find the dead silence while I'm looking for something, particularly when that something repeats, particularly unhelpful.  I have been known, on rare occasions, to tell someone something like, "find the fifth occurrence of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" on the page.  I find that most of them find it much easier when they can hear occurrences one through four as they search through.

To each his or her own.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Marcio
 

Em 26/02/2019 15:50, Travis Siegel escreveu:

but you can't go around telling people that the screen reader approach is the only approach for screen reader users

Man, no one ever said this, not that I have seen so far!
We were only discussing and one was saying about what's the best in one's opinion, nothing else!
And know what? I'm bored with it all. Tired of the thread that I myself started. I just can't handle it anymore!
I wasn't even going to answer this one, however saying we did anything we didn't isn't the best thing to do, so here I am, for the last time.
Enough is enough, I for one won't contribute in this thread anymore.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Chris Mullins
 

Hi

I tried ctrl+f on the Opera browser and It opens a “Find in page” fox, into  which I type my search criteria, press enter , then escape and indeed, it takes me to the first occurrence of my search text.  Pressing f3 to find subsequent entries, each time I am put back into the “Find in Page” box (which still contains my search criteria) and have to press escape again to move to the next occurrence.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 26 February 2019 18:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

 

I also use the find command on the browser at least under windows and I do hit escape. I don't mind the silene as I am yelled at if nothingn on that page is found in regard to the string I typed.

Take care

On 26 Feb 2019, at 10:31, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:26 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

I just verified with multiple sighted folks, and each and every one of them uses control-f when they want to find text.

So do I.   What earthly relevance does this have?!!

I can see the highlight move from instance to instance of the string being searched for.   I can know, by sight, exactly where I am on the page.  None of this is relevant to someone using a screen reader.

Dead silence during a search is a horrible, horrible idea as far as I'm concerned.  You clearly differ, and that's fine.  It won't change my position.  I'm not going to encourage a screen reader user to use a technique I know will be problematic from the outset because they can't see.

As I've said a million times:  Tool to task  (which means appropriate tool for the person using it in the circumstance they're using it.  I could use a teaspoon to dig a ditch, but why on earth would I?!)
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

It's F3 to find again, not control-f, and shift-f3 to find backwards, (again, not control-f), but honestly, if you folks have trouble with control-f, then by all means, ignore it, but you can't go around telling people that the screen reader approach is the only approach for screen reader users, because that's just spreading misinformation.  I almost never use the screen reader find command, I always (99 times out of 100) use the control-f, and it works for me, and it works for all sighted folks, and as far as I'm concerned, that means it works regardless of whether you want to use it or not is immaterial, it's still a valid way to find things, and it should not be taught that the screen reader find is the only method when that is clearly not the case.

On 2/26/2019 1:38 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:

Using control f with NVDA is by far one of the worst things anyone without sight can possibly do.

I truly do not understand how this benefits you, or anyone else, as a screen reader user.

I might as well not even bother with it. Sometimes my cursor focus doesn't stay on the relevant item, let alone the actual word I'm looking for. Pressing enter gives you 0 indication you've actually reached an item. Pressing escape (about 2 times out of 10) will focus the NVDA cursor on said item. At best, you might get to see the sentence where the word is if it's a long string of text.  Then, pressing control f once again to find next or previous item is just a futile exercise in patience.


To each their own. Pressing NVDA plus control plus f is a far cleaner, quicker, more efficient, and smarter way to do things.

On 2019-02-26 12:31 p.m., Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:26 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I just verified with multiple sighted folks, and each and every one of them uses control-f when they want to find text.
So do I.   What earthly relevance does this have?!!

I can see the highlight move from instance to instance of the string being searched for.   I can know, by sight, exactly where I am on the page.  None of this is relevant to someone using a screen reader.

Dead silence during a search is a horrible, horrible idea as far as I'm concerned.  You clearly differ, and that's fine.  It won't change my position.  I'm not going to encourage a screen reader user to use a technique I know will be problematic from the outset because they can't see.

As I've said a million times:  Tool to task  (which means appropriate tool for the person using it in the circumstance they're using it.  I could use a teaspoon to dig a ditch, but why on earth would I?!)
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Brian Vogel
 

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:37 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the silene as I am yelled at if nothingn on that page is found in regard to the string I typed.
Which is fine if you know exactly what to expect.   For anyone who already uses the technique, is comfortable with it, and may be teaching someone else - in which case they'll be teaching the technique completely and noting its pitfalls - more power to you.

This isn't saying that no one can or should use a technique they prefer.   But, you have to be complete about what that technique is.  I would have discovered the NVDA speaks part after hitting Escape ages ago had that been included.   Even though it works, it's also completely counterintuitive as Escape (just as Control) alone will typically shut a screen reader up.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Thunderbird and trash

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

I have my configuration set to delete trash when I exit the program.  I tstill get asked to compact the trash periodically, especially if I've been deleting a lot of messages, as happens quite often, but I just ignore the message, and continue working.  The next time I start thunderbird, the process starts all over again. I do compact the trash occasionally when I'm not doing anything, because I find that if I'm trying to read messages, and I allow it to compact messages, it tends to put me somewhere else in the message list, and it's a hassle to get back where I was.  For the most part though, I don't bother with the compacting messages more than once a day or so.  It's going to delete my trash when I exit anyhow, so I don't really care if the trash folder gets fragmented.
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Sarah k Alawami
 

I also use the find command on the browser at least under windows and I do hit escape. I don't mind the silene as I am yelled at if nothingn on that page is found in regard to the string I typed.

Take care

On 26 Feb 2019, at 10:31, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:26 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I just verified with multiple sighted folks, and each and every one of them uses control-f when they want to find text.
So do I.   What earthly relevance does this have?!!

I can see the highlight move from instance to instance of the string being searched for.   I can know, by sight, exactly where I am on the page.  None of this is relevant to someone using a screen reader.

Dead silence during a search is a horrible, horrible idea as far as I'm concerned.  You clearly differ, and that's fine.  It won't change my position.  I'm not going to encourage a screen reader user to use a technique I know will be problematic from the outset because they can't see.

As I've said a million times:  Tool to task  (which means appropriate tool for the person using it in the circumstance they're using it.  I could use a teaspoon to dig a ditch, but why on earth would I?!)
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Tyler Wood
 

Using control f with NVDA is by far one of the worst things anyone without sight can possibly do.

I truly do not understand how this benefits you, or anyone else, as a screen reader user.

I might as well not even bother with it. Sometimes my cursor focus doesn't stay on the relevant item, let alone the actual word I'm looking for. Pressing enter gives you 0 indication you've actually reached an item. Pressing escape (about 2 times out of 10) will focus the NVDA cursor on said item. At best, you might get to see the sentence where the word is if it's a long string of text.  Then, pressing control f once again to find next or previous item is just a futile exercise in patience.


To each their own. Pressing NVDA plus control plus f is a far cleaner, quicker, more efficient, and smarter way to do things.

On 2019-02-26 12:31 p.m., Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 01:26 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I just verified with multiple sighted folks, and each and every one of them uses control-f when they want to find text.
So do I.   What earthly relevance does this have?!!

I can see the highlight move from instance to instance of the string being searched for.   I can know, by sight, exactly where I am on the page.  None of this is relevant to someone using a screen reader.

Dead silence during a search is a horrible, horrible idea as far as I'm concerned.  You clearly differ, and that's fine.  It won't change my position.  I'm not going to encourage a screen reader user to use a technique I know will be problematic from the outset because they can't see.

As I've said a million times:  Tool to task  (which means appropriate tool for the person using it in the circumstance they're using it.  I could use a teaspoon to dig a ditch, but why on earth would I?!)
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: sleep in win 7

Mohamed
 

Yes. Configuring this is also accessible from the new Settings app, but you can still change the setting through the classic control panel as well.

On 2/26/2019 12:14 PM, Monte Single wrote:

Is win 10 similar?

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: February-26-19 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] sleep in win 7

 

Control Panel, Power Options, then Change Plan Settings link for whichever plan you happen to have active at the moment.  This will bring up the options for turning off the display and sleep.   You also have the option, once you're in Control Panel, Power Options, to do as Mohamed has mentioned and activate the Change when the computer sleeps link if the only thing you wish to tweak is the sleep settings - which will default to those being used by the currently active power plan.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 
Re: Off topic does anyone know of any app for android that makes google maps accessible

Sarah k Alawami
 

It is accessible, but to actually read the map through vibration or text is not doable. Perhaps contact the disability support desk, and they can help you further.


Take care

On 26 Feb 2019, at 9:56, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

hi.
the last i remember google maps was accessible with talkback. i'll check on my phone and get back to you 😍


On Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 12:25 PM ADRIAN POCOCK <ampbeast@...> wrote:

As the subject line says this is off topic but is there any kind souls out there that would know off any android apps capable of accessing google maps to allow talk back to speak them.

 


Adrian Pocock.    Email    ampbeast@...
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