Date   
Re: closing the NVDA About window

Clare Page <clare.page@...>
 

Hi!

You don’t need to use alt+F4 or Escape, or even the Tab key, to close the About dialogue in the Help menu of NVDA: the window closes with an OK button. All you need to do is to press the spacebar at any point during the reading of the About message: the OK button will be activated, and the window with the About message in it will close.

I hope this helps!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Giles Turnbull
Sent: vendredi 28 septembre 2018 16:20
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] closing the NVDA About window

 

Hi All,

I was just looking in the About window to see which version of NVDA I have installed, and it is 2018.3.2 ... now I know that I am unable to close that About dialogue!

Presing Escape, Alt+F4 produce no results, and tabbing around finds no close button!

I think I remember something similar happning with configuration windows back in NVDA 2017, so wonder if it might be related ... is anybody else experienceing this?

Thanks,

Giles

training for blind people

Davy Cuppens
 

HI Gene
 
I do totally agree with you. But I also agree a bit with the others, this specific problem is a problem of inaccessibility of that bank site and lie I had said before, the only thing the person can do is call on their bank and tell them to make it accessible again.
 
But what you say in general is right.
For the enhanced use of computers, devices like smartphones, iphones, screenreaders, many are called but only a few are chosen thanks to a lack of training.
Sometimes I have the feeling that many blind people sit back and relax and when they do have an issue or problem ask a forum. Moreover, if they would have tried first to perform a google search, in 80% of the cases, they could have found a solution for themselves. Then having found that solution gives more satisfaction and a greater chance to remember such things afterwards.
This list is there to help eachother and it is obvious that advanced, engaged, selfmade people will ask less questions than people that have more difficulties or things are not gona be so straight forward. There is nothing wrong with that but I find it a bit a pain here that so many people disagree with you Gene. An idiom here in Belgium literally translated is: where there is a will there will be a way. But some people are not willing enough will.
What also bothers me is that in most rehab institutions I know, instructors do not have enough knowledge or qualification to train blind people according to their needs. Therefore, I almost always do my own training in selfstudy, at first, read the manual, test it out, read lists like this, podcasting and I think if you feel after that it is stull not working, please people say YES WE CAN and go to training, Gene is right in his statement.
Regards
Davy
 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2018 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site
 
You are generalizing from a few specifics, not proper logic.  I didn't say all sites are accessible.  Neither did I say that sites don't change.  My point is that proper training would allow blind people to figure out, in most cases, how to use sites when they do change or figure out new ones.  Of course, some sites are or become inaccessible.  I'm not talking about those. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site
 

Hi, Gene,

 

With all due respect, sites do constantly change unless they're like the blind mice megamall site. I

i'm sorry but I totally agree with Glen's message. All the training in the world won't help if sites keep changing. I was once able to shop for groceries online with the Vons site but when I talked to someone there, they said it's no longer accesible with screen readers. Why do you think I have to have my sighted sister help me place an order on Instacart? Simple--it's not really accessible. I've talked to friends of mine and they said you almost have to have an iphone to use their accessible app. I believe in looking at the layout of a page so you get familiar with how to use it. I tried shopping by myself on instacart but it didn't work--not even with work-arounds.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

The level of training would be available if proper training were done by those who do it in the first place.  What used to be Freedom Scientific and now has a name that evokes a bird offers a lot of training.  Nothing I am describing is taught in all that training, as far as I know. 

 

I'm a voice in the wilderness.  If blind people would join together and demand proper training, we might get somewhere.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 1:35 PM

Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Gene,

The level of training you are referring to is either unaffordable on their limited income, or beyond their interest level.

Remember, even the average requirements of using a screenreader is more than most sighted folks would learn to use the computer.

If they cannot touch what they want or click on it with a mouse, it is beyond what the majority of sighted folks would be willing to learn, and why should the Blind be any different?

We are forced to learn stuff that many would not even consider if they did not have to.

Believe me, I’m in the real world seeing newly Blinded folks all the time, and only the most highly motivated of them are interested in learning to use a screenreader.

I find it disappointing, but that is the truth.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Because of poor training.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 12:56 PM

Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Hi Gene,

I gathered that, but it is my experience that the majority of Blind users, most of whom aren’t even on a listserve, struggle to use even one screenreader, much less other operating systems.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 12:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

I didn't say that this isn't occurring on the Internet.  I haven't used enough sites that are out of my usual use to say.  I am making a general statement about blind people using only one screen-reader, as so many do.  This is the result of poore training.  I wasn't refering specifically to or only to the Internet.  I was discussing how so many blind people don't realize the advantages to using more than one screen-reader on the Internet or elsewhere.  If blind people knew what I said in my last message in the thread, they might be more willing to try other screen-readers so that when one screen-reader doesn't do something well, they might be able to do the thing better or well using another screen-reader.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:22 AM

Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Gene,

All it takes is one element that is a show stopper for someone, and that can cause them to stop using a screenreader and give up using a computer.

I have been a computer user and teacher since the days of DOS, and I have spent hours stuck on a page because of inaccessible pages that have no work-around, unless you come to a list like this to find out some obscure technique that happens to work.

It sure seems like more and more of this is happening, and it is difficult for screenreaders to keep up.

I don’t agree with your assertion that it is just a matter of training.

I think with this most recent trend, we will see less and less Blind people being able to access pages.

I don’t know the solution, but I see a bad trend here.

I hope I’m wrong about the trend.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

That's largely because of poor training, however.  Not for everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do before.  Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands.  a different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't use screen-reader commands.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM

Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice, then the majority of users are left behind.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:

Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and tel them.

Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with two or more screen readers available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 

Re: closing the NVDA About window

Giles Turnbull
 

apologies ... I'm talking nonsense! The About window is closing with a press of the Escape key, it is the Speech Viewer window that won't close. In the end I closed NVDA and re-started to remove the speech viewer window.

Similar problem, just correcting the details! :)

Giles

closing the NVDA About window

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi All,

I was just looking in the About window to see which version of NVDA I have installed, and it is 2018.3.2 ... now I know that I am unable to close that About dialogue!

Presing Escape, Alt+F4 produce no results, and tabbing around finds no close button!

I think I remember something similar happning with configuration windows back in NVDA 2017, so wonder if it might be related ... is anybody else experienceing this?

Thanks,

Giles

Re: Automatically start NVDA after I log on to Windows, unchecked after updates

Brice Mijares
 

This also happened to me after last update earlier this week.

On 9/28/2018 3:40 AM, Iv�n Novegil via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello all.
I don't know if this has been already reported, so before addressing this issue through GitHub I would like to ask there about this.
Since 2018.1 update or so, whenever I update NVDA, the "Automatically start NVDA after I log on to Windows" checkbox becomes unchecked. I thought that this was an issolated strange problem, but another user has said me that he is also able to reproduce this bug.
Has someone experienced this behavior and is there any opened issue on GitHub regarding this?
Thanks in advance. Regards.
--
Iv�n Novegil Cancelas
Editor
@inovegil <mailto:@inovegil>
NVDA.es Logo
Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
- www.NVDA.es <https://nvda.es>
- @nvda_es <https://twitter.com/nvda_es>
Usuario do NVDA en galego
***Note que a anterior mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos pode conter informaci�n privada ou confidencial. O emprego da informaci�n desta mensaxe e/ou dos seus adxuntos est� reservado ao �mbito privado do destinatario ag�s autorizaci�n do remitente. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro comun�queo por esta mesma v�a e destr�a a mensaxe.***

Re: Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 


Hi,
 
What kind of error?
At least you've set a city by the settings of Weather Plus?
 
Cheers
Adriano
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Karmelo
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2018 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available

Dear Adriano,

 

I am trying to setup weather plus for the first time but am getting an error.  No wo id.  I live in Malta Europe.  Could you help me please.

 

Thank you very much,

Charles Borg

 

Re: Automatically start NVDA after I log on to Windows, unchecked after updates

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

I can confirm that on one of my PC’s running Win10 since 2018.3. Doesn’t happen on my other PC’s running Win10.

 

Cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Iván Novegil via Groups.Io
Sent: Freitag, 28. September 2018 12:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Automatically start NVDA after I log on to Windows, unchecked after updates

 

Hello all.

 

I don't know if this has been already reported, so before addressing this issue through GitHub I would like to ask there about this.

Since 2018.1 update or so, whenever I update NVDA, the "Automatically start NVDA after I log on to Windows" checkbox becomes unchecked. I thought that this was an issolated strange problem, but another user has said me that he is also able to reproduce this bug.

Has someone experienced this behavior and is there any opened issue on GitHub regarding this?

 

Thanks in advance. Regards.

--

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@...


Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
- www.NVDA.es
- @nvda_es

Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Note que a anterior mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos pode conter información privada ou confidencial. O emprego da información desta mensaxe e/ou dos seus adxuntos está reservado ao ámbito privado do destinatario agás autorización do remitente. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro comuníqueo por esta mesma vía e destrúa a mensaxe.***

Re: Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available

Karmelo
 

Dear Adriano,

 

I am trying to setup weather plus for the first time but am getting an error.  No wo id.  I live in Malta Europe.  Could you help me please.

 

Thank you very much,

Charles Borg

 

Automatically start NVDA after I log on to Windows, unchecked after updates

Iván Novegil
 

Hello all.


I don't know if this has been already reported, so before addressing this issue through GitHub I would like to ask there about this.

Since 2018.1 update or so, whenever I update NVDA, the "Automatically start NVDA after I log on to Windows" checkbox becomes unchecked. I thought that this was an issolated strange problem, but another user has said me that he is also able to reproduce this bug.

Has someone experienced this behavior and is there any opened issue on GitHub regarding this?


Thanks in advance. Regards.

--

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@...


Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
- www.NVDA.es
- @nvda_es

Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Note que a anterior mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos pode conter información privada ou confidencial. O emprego da información desta mensaxe e/ou dos seus adxuntos está reservado ao ámbito privado do destinatario agás autorización do remitente. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro comuníqueo por esta mesma vía e destrúa a mensaxe.***

Re: Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 

Hi,

In this version, the translations are absolutely not been changed compared to the previous version.
Who do you ask exactly?

Cheers
Adriano

----- Original Message -----
From: "René Linke" <rene.linke@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2018 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available


Hi Adriano,

In the last version, the translations in its add-on was very old.
I looked into the SRT repo, and some translations are newer.
Did you update the translation files?

René


Display/No Display of Attributes with Braille Display Focus 40

Hermann-Josef Kurzen
 

Hi NVDA-Users,

I'm using a Focus 40 Braille display by FS.
I would like to turn off displaying attributes. What's to do?


Greetings - Hermann

What is necessary to allow NVDA to pronounce and display in Braille notifications?

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello all,
I work every day with the Slack application which is getting more and more accessible thanks to feedback we send to their developers.
I have an issue: when someone mentions me, I get a sound notification. It is displayed in the Windows Task bar, so that sighted users can see it, but NVDA does not pronounce or display it in Braille.
As notifications work fine for incoming email in Thunderbird or Dropbox information, I wonder what NVDA needs to be able to speak this notification.
If you have the answer, I could send a suggestion to the Slack developers.
Thanks for any input
Best
Sylvie

Re: Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available

René Linke <rene.linke@...>
 

Hi Adriano,

In the last version, the translations in its add-on was very old.
I looked into the SRT repo, and some translations are newer.
Did you update the translation files?

René

Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Arlene,


I did call the bank and while the IT person who was supposed to get back to me never did, when I woke up the next morning and tried logging in again, the issue was solved.

On 9/27/2018 11:04 PM, Arlene wrote:
Glen: Arlene here! I agree with you! I know web coding is constantly
changing making it hard for screen readers to keep up with these
things. I hope you are wrong about how these pages are going to be so
inaccessible for us blind users to access sites for our use. If
whoever has a problem with the submit button on the banking site. You
may want to call your bank to get help from them. Or before you call
the bank. Why not ask a sighted friend who you trust to come over to
your house? Try doing your banking in that person's presence. Ask
your friend what he she sees at the submit button. That's if you have
any sighted friends around. If not just call the bank for help! Have
them helping you over the phone and them on the same site as you are.
then if they hear you having trouble with the submit button then ask
the worker what he she sees at the submit button! Just a thought!

On 9/27/18, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
Gene,
All it takes is one element that is a show stopper for someone, and that can
cause them to stop using a screenreader and give up using a computer.
I have been a computer user and teacher since the days of DOS, and I have
spent hours stuck on a page because of inaccessible pages that have no
work-around, unless you come to a list like this to find out some obscure
technique that happens to work.
It sure seems like more and more of this is happening, and it is difficult
for screenreaders to keep up.
I don’t agree with your assertion that it is just a matter of training.
I think with this most recent trend, we will see less and less Blind people
being able to access pages.
I don’t know the solution, but I see a bad trend here.
I hope I’m wrong about the trend.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My
Banking Site

That's largely because of poor training, however. Not for everything, but
for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands
that are different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you
could do before. Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands.
a different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a
different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot
of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't
use screen-reader commands.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ervin, Glenn<mailto:glenn.ervin@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My
Banking Site

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of
us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice,
then the majority of users are left behind.
Glenn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My
Banking Site

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:
Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and tel them.
Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have
to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of
catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.
Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and
particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way
revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one
screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with
two or more screen readers available. That can help to tease out where the
issue might lie.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals,
which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot
co-exist with a serious affection for another. Everybody knows that this is
untrue. . .

~ Bertrand Russell








--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 


Hi to every one,
 
Changes in this version:
• MenuItem.GetLabel() is deprecated and has been replaced by MenuItem.GetItemLabelText().
• Were correct some declarations of global variables.
 
Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download
manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.7.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html
 
Make sure that the extension of the downloaded file is correct, otherwise
rename it  in .nvda-addon.
Thanks
 
Adriano Barbieri

Weather Plus 28.09.2018 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 


Hi to every one,
 
Changes in this version:
• MenuItem.GetLabel() is deprecated and has been replaced by MenuItem.GetItemLabelText().
• Were correct some declarations of global variables.
 
Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download
manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.7.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html
 
Make sure that the extension of the downloaded file is correct, otherwise
rename it  in .nvda-addon.
Thanks
 
Adriano Barbieri

Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Arlene
 

Brian! I'm happy for people like you who are self taught! Those who
are self taught are more likely to become real good problem solvers on
this siber world! Let's just say, there are those who are extremely
helpless and needs to be spoon fed! If I did not have an Ld witch is a
learning disability. I'd probably be more self taught! I do have more
them one screen reader on this system for this very reason. If NVDA
doesn't work for some thing. then I have Jaws that may work for
another. Vice Versa. Just my 2 cents! For instance, I had to break
down and ask for help on this one site. It was Fortis Electricity! I
don't know if it was just me not knowing what to do properly. I had to
call the company to help me get redgestered because I did not know
what I was doing. I thought it was the site or just me. I used both
Jaws then switching to NVDA. then I just quit and asked for help from
the company! In any event. if it wasn't for this Ld of mine. I would
have figured it out!

On 9/27/18, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Well I often use nvda and narator together with narator in scan mode for
times where I need it.



On 9/28/2018 12:02 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,


What you do is to get a demo of JAWS and any other paid commercial
software and use it in cases where NVDA doesn't work. Also, if you are
using Windows 10 (and hopefully any further Windows upgrade in the
future) you can use Narrator free of charge for problem areas.



On 9/27/2018 6:09 PM, brian wrote:

Gene how do you suggest that blind people obtain more than screen
reader? Nvda is free and you can't make payments on the comercial
screenreaders. Are you willing to start a fund for the purchasse of
screen readers or are you going to advocate that thecompanies offer
payment plans? I use nvda because it's all that I can aford and
rember that most blind people are living on disability or ssi income
and don't forget about the 80 unimployment rate of the blind. Your
suggesion is a very good one but it's not doable for the majority of
the blind how do you hope to change this? If you ask your commission
for the blind you will be told that only for a job if even then you
will have to write up a business plan. If you ask your local lions
club you might be told no or we would like to but that would take all
of our budget for the whole year. As I said your idea is not wrong
but how can it be done? This one reason that more blind people don't
have a computer it was for me for years. Your screen reader should
never cost more than the cost of a good high end pc. If you are
lucky enough to live in a town that has a local liberary for the
blind then might have a work station but thats not the case for alot
of blind people. It seems like every once in a while this comes up
that blind people should have this or that with no suggestion as to
how to bring this about it should just happen. We are not richas
some people seem to think we are. As to the matter of proper
training on the use of internet and screen reader it does not seem
tobe available. Training centers and rehab centers are not doing
this. It's just learn on your own thats been the case for me and I
am sure foralot of many blind people. When can we get the proper
training how will we get there and who will pay for it? Blind people
are just not tought problem solving skills at many training centers.
It's just basic survivle skills and no more even if you request it.

Brian Sackrider

On 9/27/2018 1:52 PM, Gene wrote:
I didn't say that this isn't occurring on the Internet. I haven't
used enough sites that are out of my usual use to say. I am making
a general statement about blind people using only one screen-reader,
as so many do. This is the result of poore training. I wasn't
refering specifically to or only to the Internet. I was discussing
how so many blind people don't realize the advantages to using more
than one screen-reader on the Internet or elsewhere. If blind
people knew what I said in my last message in the thread, they might
be more willing to try other screen-readers so that when one
screen-reader doesn't do something well, they might be able to do
the thing better or well using another screen-reader.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ervin, Glenn <mailto:glenn.ervin@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:22 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit
Button On My Banking Site

Gene,

All it takes is one element that is a show stopper for someone, and
that can cause them to stop using a screenreader and give up using a
computer.

I have been a computer user and teacher since the days of DOS, and I
have spent hours stuck on a page because of inaccessible pages that
have no work-around, unless you come to a list like this to find out
some obscure technique that happens to work.

It sure seems like more and more of this is happening, and it is
difficult for screenreaders to keep up.

I don’t agree with your assertion that it is just a matter of training.

I think with this most recent trend, we will see less and less Blind
people being able to access pages.

I don’t know the solution, but I see a bad trend here.

I hope I’m wrong about the trend.

Glenn

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:04 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit
Button On My Banking Site

That's largely because of poor training, however. Not for
everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps
ten or fifteen commands that are different for a different
screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do before. Most of what
people do uses Windows or program commands. a different
screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a
different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but
a lot of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is
done doesn't use screen-reader commands.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Ervin, Glenn <mailto:glenn.ervin@...>

*Sent:*Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button
On My Banking Site

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for
those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally
accepted practice, then the majority of users are left behind.

Glenn

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On
My Banking Site

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:

Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and
tel them.

Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you
also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some
extent, a game of catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to
stop. Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to
it, and particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a
certain way revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work
under one screen reader might work under another if you happen to
have a system with two or more screen readers available. That can
help to tease out where the issue might lie.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional
morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to
one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.
Everybody knows that this is untrue. . ./

~ Bertrand Russell


Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Well I often use nvda and narator together with narator in scan mode for times where I need it.

On 9/28/2018 12:02 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,


What you do is to get a demo of JAWS and any other paid commercial software and use it in cases where NVDA doesn't work. Also, if you are using Windows 10 (and hopefully any further Windows upgrade in the future) you can use Narrator free of charge for problem areas.



On 9/27/2018 6:09 PM, brian wrote:

    Gene how do you suggest that blind people obtain more than screen reader?  Nvda is free and you can't make payments on the comercial screenreaders.  Are you willing to start a fund for the purchasse of screen readers or are you going to advocate that thecompanies offer payment plans?  I use nvda because it's all that I can aford and rember that most blind people are living on disability or ssi income and don't forget about the 80 unimployment rate of the blind.  Your suggesion is a very good one but it's not doable for the majority of the blind how do you hope to change this?  If you ask your commission for the blind you will be told that only for a job if even then you will have to write up a business plan.  If you ask your local lions club you might be told no or we would like to but that would take all of our budget for the whole year.  As I said your idea is not wrong but how can it be done?  This one reason that more blind people don't have a computer it was for me for years.  Your screen reader should never cost more than the cost of a good high end pc.  If you are lucky enough to live in a town that has a local liberary for the blind then might have a work station but thats not the case for alot of blind people.  It seems like every once in a while this comes up that blind people should have this or that with  no suggestion as to how to bring this about it should just happen.  We are not richas some people seem to think we are.  As to the matter of proper training on the use of internet and screen reader it does not seem tobe available. Training centers and rehab centers are not doing this.  It's just learn on your own thats been the case for me and I am sure foralot of many blind people.  When can we get the proper training how will we get there and who will pay for it?  Blind people are just not tought problem solving skills at many training centers.  It's just basic survivle skills and no more even if you request it.

Brian Sackrider

On 9/27/2018 1:52 PM, Gene wrote:
I didn't say that this isn't occurring on the Internet.  I haven't used enough sites that are out of my usual use to say.  I am making a general statement about blind people using only one screen-reader, as so many do. This is the result of poore training.  I wasn't refering specifically to or only to the Internet.  I was discussing how so many blind people don't realize the advantages to using more than one screen-reader on the Internet or elsewhere.  If blind people knew what I said in my last message in the thread, they might be more willing to try other screen-readers so that when one screen-reader doesn't do something well, they might be able to do the thing better or well using another screen-reader.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ervin, Glenn <mailto:glenn.ervin@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:22 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Gene,

All it takes is one element that is a show stopper for someone, and that can cause them to stop using a screenreader and give up using a computer.

I have been a computer user and teacher since the days of DOS, and I have spent hours stuck on a page because of inaccessible pages that have no work-around, unless you come to a list like this to find out some obscure technique that happens to work.

It sure seems like more and more of this is happening, and it is difficult for screenreaders to keep up.

I don’t agree with your assertion that it is just a matter of training.

I think with this most recent trend, we will see less and less Blind people being able to access pages.

I don’t know the solution, but I see a bad trend here.

I hope I’m wrong about the trend.

Glenn

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:04 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

That's largely because of poor training, however.  Not for everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do before. Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands.  a different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't use screen-reader commands.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Ervin, Glenn <mailto:glenn.ervin@...>

*Sent:*Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice, then the majority of users are left behind.

Glenn

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:

    Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and
    tel them.

Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with two or more screen readers available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . ./

           ~ Bertrand Russell

Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Arlene
 

Glen: Arlene here! I agree with you! I know web coding is constantly
changing making it hard for screen readers to keep up with these
things. I hope you are wrong about how these pages are going to be so
inaccessible for us blind users to access sites for our use. If
whoever has a problem with the submit button on the banking site. You
may want to call your bank to get help from them. Or before you call
the bank. Why not ask a sighted friend who you trust to come over to
your house? Try doing your banking in that person's presence. Ask
your friend what he she sees at the submit button. That's if you have
any sighted friends around. If not just call the bank for help! Have
them helping you over the phone and them on the same site as you are.
then if they hear you having trouble with the submit button then ask
the worker what he she sees at the submit button! Just a thought!

On 9/27/18, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
Gene,
All it takes is one element that is a show stopper for someone, and that can
cause them to stop using a screenreader and give up using a computer.
I have been a computer user and teacher since the days of DOS, and I have
spent hours stuck on a page because of inaccessible pages that have no
work-around, unless you come to a list like this to find out some obscure
technique that happens to work.
It sure seems like more and more of this is happening, and it is difficult
for screenreaders to keep up.
I don’t agree with your assertion that it is just a matter of training.
I think with this most recent trend, we will see less and less Blind people
being able to access pages.
I don’t know the solution, but I see a bad trend here.
I hope I’m wrong about the trend.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My
Banking Site

That's largely because of poor training, however. Not for everything, but
for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands
that are different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you
could do before. Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands.
a different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a
different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot
of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't
use screen-reader commands.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ervin, Glenn<mailto:glenn.ervin@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My
Banking Site

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of
us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice,
then the majority of users are left behind.
Glenn


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My
Banking Site

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:
Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and tel them.
Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have
to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of
catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.
Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and
particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way
revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one
screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with
two or more screen readers available. That can help to tease out where the
issue might lie.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals,
which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot
co-exist with a serious affection for another. Everybody knows that this is
untrue. . .

~ Bertrand Russell








Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Ron,

 

That makes perfect sense. The more tools you have, the more tasks you can get done.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 5:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Hi Group,

 

What you do is to get a demo of JAWS and any other paid commercial software and use it in cases where NVDA doesn't work. Also, if you are using Windows 10 (and hopefully any further Windows upgrade in the future) you can use Narrator free of charge for problem areas.

 

 

On 9/27/2018 6:09 PM, brian wrote:

    Gene how do you suggest that blind people obtain more than screen reader?  Nvda is free and you can't make payments on the comercial screenreaders.  Are you willing to start a fund for the purchasse of screen readers or are you going to advocate that thecompanies offer payment plans?  I use nvda because it's all that I can aford and rember that most blind people are living on disability or ssi income and don't forget about the 80 unimployment rate of the blind.  Your suggesion is a very good one but it's not doable for the majority of the blind how do you hope to change this?  If you ask your commission for the blind you will be told that only for a job if even then you will have to write up a business plan.  If you ask your local lions club you might be told no or we would like to but that would take all of our budget for the whole year.  As I said your idea is not wrong but how can it be done?  This one reason that more blind people don't have a computer it was for me for years.  Your screen reader should never cost more than the cost of a good high end pc.  If you are lucky enough to live in a town that has a local liberary for the blind then might have a work station but thats not the case for alot of blind people.  It seems like every once in a while this comes up that blind people should have this or that with  no suggestion as to how to bring this about it should just happen.  We are not richas some people seem to think we are.  As to the matter of proper training on the use of internet and screen reader it does not seem tobe available.  Training centers and rehab centers are not doing this.  It's just learn on your own thats been the case for me and I am sure foralot of many blind people.  When can we get the proper training how will we get there and who will pay for it?  Blind people are just not tought problem solving skills at many training centers.  It's just basic survivle skills and no more even if you request it. 

Brian Sackrider   

On 9/27/2018 1:52 PM, Gene wrote:

I didn't say that this isn't occurring on the Internet.  I haven't used enough sites that are out of my usual use to say.  I am making a general statement about blind people using only one screen-reader, as so many do.  This is the result of poore training.  I wasn't refering specifically to or only to the Internet.  I was discussing how so many blind people don't realize the advantages to using more than one screen-reader on the Internet or elsewhere.  If blind people knew what I said in my last message in the thread, they might be more willing to try other screen-readers so that when one screen-reader doesn't do something well, they might be able to do the thing better or well using another screen-reader.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:22 AM

Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Gene,

All it takes is one element that is a show stopper for someone, and that can cause them to stop using a screenreader and give up using a computer.

I have been a computer user and teacher since the days of DOS, and I have spent hours stuck on a page because of inaccessible pages that have no work-around, unless you come to a list like this to find out some obscure technique that happens to work.

It sure seems like more and more of this is happening, and it is difficult for screenreaders to keep up.

I don’t agree with your assertion that it is just a matter of training.

I think with this most recent trend, we will see less and less Blind people being able to access pages.

I don’t know the solution, but I see a bad trend here.

I hope I’m wrong about the trend.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

That's largely because of poor training, however.  Not for everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do before.  Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands.  a different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't use screen-reader commands.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM

Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice, then the majority of users are left behind.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:

Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and tel them.

Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with two or more screen readers available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"