Date   

Re: Phonics and NVDA

Luke Davis
 

Jane Sharp wrote:

I have a learner who is learning letter sounds and starting to build words. So for example, for pet, puh eh tuh. We’d like her to be able to type this and
get those sounds from character echo rather than the letter names, p e t, and then when she presses space to get the word pet pronounced correctly. 
You would probably need to commission an add-on for this. I don't know of anything that can do it out of the box.

One of the problems you're going to run into, is that sounds like "puh" and "tuh", wherein you pronounce the "uh" part of the sound, are incorrect phonics. The P is supposed to be taught as just the plosive, without any vowel sound. Same for B--it's supposed to be just the lip action, with as minimal vowel involvement as possible. T should be just the tongue and teeth action, etc.
(The cost of being raised by an expert phonics teacher.)
Getting any synth to do that right is going to be difficult, and probably require phoneme work deeper than just letter manipulation.

Doing it with sound files of a human tied to each key would probably be more likely to produce phonics-accurate results, and, at least with my level of technical knowledge, would be practically more easy to implement, although someone with more experience at manipulating phonemic information at that level might find the synth just as workable.

I can change the pronunciation of the letters in the Dictionary but this messes up word echo.
Can you give an example of how that breaks?

Luke

"Beware of wishing for justice... You might get it." - Lois McMaster Bujold


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 07:38 PM, Gene wrote:
You have to restart programs in general.
-

Indeed.  But jumping back specifically to Chromium-based browsers, unless it's not exposed to the screen reader, you should get a notification that an Update is available when you throw focus to the browser menu key.  And, invariably, if you choose to update it will tell you that the update will be applied after the browser is relaunched, and then ask you if you want to relaunch now.

If you have your browser set up to open "where I left off" then answering in the affirmative immediately will cause the browser to relaunch and you end upon precisely the same page in the same tab (though not usually at the same place in the page) as soon as it launches again.  In other cases you may need to postpone so that you don't lose your place and your currently open tabs and windows (if applicable).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Gene
 

That’s not the problem.  He can look at web sites and he doesn’t hear unknown.  The ;problem, as I discussed in a previous message, is leaving browse mode on. 
 
There are times, I should amplify, that you need it off to see certain things and times when it should be on.  You have to experiment. 
 
For example, the about page requires it to be on to see all the information by arrowing down the page.  The downloads dialog requires it to be off to see and work with downloads properly and that is true of the favorites dialog as well.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Davis
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium
 
Chris Shook wrote:

> WHen I use NVDA with EDge and I click on favorites, it says dialogue pain,
> but doesn't say anything else.

Have you tried NVDA's COM Registration Fixing Tool?

Luke

"Beware of wishing for justice... You might get it." - Lois McMaster Bujold





Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Gene
 

You have to restart programs in general.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium
 

Yes, I’ve seen this with Chrome.  When it updates you have to restart Chrome.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 13, 2021 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Also, after Chrome updates, you have to restart the browser to have the update take effect.  You will be told that and a button is provided in the about information.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:49 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

There is a new update to Edge, evidently released very recently.  Mine is updating now.  This update may solve the problem being discussed.  I’m going to test it after the update finishes.

 

As far as finding the about information, do the following:

Open the menu with alt f.  Hold alt when typing f. 

Up arrow to help and support and press enter.

Up arrow to about Chrome and press enter.

You can look at the page as you would a web page.  Start arrowing down and you will soon get to version information.  If Chrome is up-to-date, you will find that stated in that area.

 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Arlene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Hi, Where do you find about Edge?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 13, 2021 3:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Chrome and all Chrome-based browsers do but you should check that it is up-to-date before testing.  While updates should be automatic, that doesn’t guarantee something didn’t go wrong. 

 

I can tell you how to check if you wish, but I’d have to check.  There are differences between Chrome-based browsers.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Arlene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:17 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Oh, okay. So, if I open Edge. He will just sit there and update himself? I’ll do that right now.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 13, 2021 3:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Edge automatically updates itself but if you haven’t used it in some time, you should open it and let it sit for a few minutes.  Then use the about dialog to see if it is running the current version.  Since the complained of problem occurred after an update, your results wouldn’t match the test criteria unless the program is known to be current.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Arlene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:07 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

I have Jaws and will use it. I haven’t updated edge. It’s there but I haven’t used it in ages.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris Shook
Sent: May 13, 2021 2:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Just out of curiosity, can someone use JAWS with Edge Chromium and see

what happens?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Luke Davis
 

Chris Shook wrote:

WHen I use NVDA with EDge and I click on favorites, it says dialogue pain, but doesn't say anything else.
Have you tried NVDA's COM Registration Fixing Tool?

Luke

"Beware of wishing for justice... You might get it." - Lois McMaster Bujold


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Gene
 

Any time you don’t see what you should or what you think you should in these kinds of dialogs, turn off browse mode.  I haven’t seen this discussed, but these sorts of structures seem to me like hybrid dialogs, sort of dialogs that use a web interface somewhat.  If you turn off browse mode you will be able to see things.
 
Also, there are times in these sorts of dialogs where you will see most things but you may not see one important thing.  It’s a good idea to turn off browse mode and look around to see if you are missing anything when it is on.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium
 
WHen I use NVDA with EDge and I click on favorites, it says dialogue
pain, but doesn't say anything else.
If I restart NVDA, then I can see the favorites menu sometimes.
If I hit control J to activate the downloads folder, nothing happens.
Same if I try and open the history folder.
Narrator will let me read these menus, but I still can't navigate them.
I've tried installing Edge again and running a repair, but nothing works.





Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Arlene
 

Yes, I’ve seen this with Chrome.  When it updates you have to restart Chrome.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 13, 2021 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Also, after Chrome updates, you have to restart the browser to have the update take effect.  You will be told that and a button is provided in the about information.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:49 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

There is a new update to Edge, evidently released very recently.  Mine is updating now.  This update may solve the problem being discussed.  I’m going to test it after the update finishes.

 

As far as finding the about information, do the following:

Open the menu with alt f.  Hold alt when typing f. 

Up arrow to help and support and press enter.

Up arrow to about Chrome and press enter.

You can look at the page as you would a web page.  Start arrowing down and you will soon get to version information.  If Chrome is up-to-date, you will find that stated in that area.

 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Arlene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Hi, Where do you find about Edge?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 13, 2021 3:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Chrome and all Chrome-based browsers do but you should check that it is up-to-date before testing.  While updates should be automatic, that doesn’t guarantee something didn’t go wrong. 

 

I can tell you how to check if you wish, but I’d have to check.  There are differences between Chrome-based browsers.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Arlene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:17 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Oh, okay. So, if I open Edge. He will just sit there and update himself? I’ll do that right now.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 13, 2021 3:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Edge automatically updates itself but if you haven’t used it in some time, you should open it and let it sit for a few minutes.  Then use the about dialog to see if it is running the current version.  Since the complained of problem occurred after an update, your results wouldn’t match the test criteria unless the program is known to be current.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Arlene

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 5:07 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

I have Jaws and will use it. I haven’t updated edge. It’s there but I haven’t used it in ages.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris Shook
Sent: May 13, 2021 2:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

Just out of curiosity, can someone use JAWS with Edge Chromium and see

what happens?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Chris

It’s a key that used to be found to the left of the right control key on a standard qwerty keyboard but on laptops it could be a key combination dependent on manufacturer.  It is used to provide a context menu and is used to provide context related options in controls such as list entries, spreadsheet cells and other controls which could have associated options.  On more recent machines, it may not be included on the keyboard at all, in which case I believe shift+f10 does the same job.  The word applications is spoken by NVDA keyboard help (NVDA+NumRow 1), so you should be able to find it on your keyboard if it’s there.

Cheers

Chris   

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris Shook
Sent: 14 May 2021 22:29
To: lpfau@...
Cc: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

May be a stupid question, but what is the applications key?

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Arlene wrote:
For me, the applications key is shift f ten.
-
For me as well.  It's also very commonly referred to as "the menu key" or "the context menu key" outside of formal documentation.

If it's physically present on a keyboard it's always somewhere to the right of the space bar, but where depends on the make/model of computer/keyboard.  If it's not present, SHIFT+F10 is what is used in its place.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Arlene
 

For me, the applications key is shift f ten. Some keyboards have an applications key. If you don’t have one. You just hold down the shift key and hit f ten.  I always do that no matter what kind of Key board I have.  I think with the lap top keyboard it’s the same.Depending on wat you are doing. The applications key will allow you to find things like uninstalling something in your control panel or in open drive if you are in the upload area. What the applications key does is if you want to get to links. You hit the applications key and arrow to link. Hit enter and you can streme the link or download it from open drive but you copy the link.Then you post it to e-mail.   

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris Shook
Sent: May 14, 2021 2:29 PM
To: lpfau@...
Cc: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

May be a stupid question, but what is the applications key?

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 04:48 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
that should've been left alone when the recent updates were installed.
-
Never gonna happen.  And I have been every bit as frustrated by certain changes as those here are about this one.

There is no constant but change, and nowhere is change more constant than in the world of computing.  You either go with the flow or get drowned.  There is no choice about it.

And that's why accessibility has those two steps forward, one step back episodes.  Sometimes it's the fault of the screen reader makers, who were notified of changes well in advance of their releases but they didn't make the necessary changes in time to have everything work.  Sometimes it's the fault of the other software maker (Microsoft in this case, but not always) where they drop a change that no one in the developer communities was ever informed was coming.  That's never going to change, either, which is why prompt submission of bug reports/feedback/calling support lines when these occur is critical.  No one can fix anything when they don't know it's happening.

And all of the above is true independent of one's visual status and also applies beyond strictly accessibility issues, too.  The way issues not caught by telemetry are identified is via direct complaints from end users, and the number and swiftness of those complaints does play in to priority setting as far as waiting fixes.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Chris Shook
 

May be a stupid question, but what is the applications key?


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Chris Shook
 

WHen I use NVDA with EDge and I click on favorites, it says dialogue pain, but doesn't say anything else.
If I restart NVDA, then I can see the favorites menu sometimes.
If I hit control J to activate the downloads folder, nothing happens. Same if I try and open the history folder.
Narrator will let me read these menus, but I still can't navigate them.
I've tried installing Edge again and running a repair, but nothing works.


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Louise Pfau
 

Hi. I'm also having the issue with the downloads that has been discussed. I can't seem to activate the "Save" split button with the usual ENTER, SPACE, or ARROWS, but I discovered by accident that the APPLICATIONS key opens the associated choices. I've been in contact with Microsoft about it, although I agree that it's something to do with Windows rather than NVDA or any other screen reader that should've been left alone when the recent updates were installed.

Louise


Phonics and NVDA

Jane Sharp
 

Hi

I wondered if anyone has found a way to allow very young learners to use NVDA while they are developing literacy through the use of phonics.

I have a learner who is learning letter sounds and starting to build words. So for example, for pet, puh eh tuh. We’d like her to be able to type this and get those sounds from character echo rather than the letter names, p e t, and then when she presses space to get the word pet pronounced correctly. 

I can change the pronunciation of the letters in the Dictionary but this messes up word echo. Does anyone have any better suggestions?

Thanks

Jane


Re: nvda installation

Chris
 

Im guessing that he’s using a portable version rather than a installed copy

 

 

From: Robert Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: 14 May 2021 19:50
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda installation

 

A friend is installing NVDA on a new windows 10 pc. When he opens the general options in the NVDA settings everything between logging level and check for updates is grayed out. what causes this?

*********
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go to Doc's Stream
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You can also find family times on OoTunes.

 

 


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Re: NVDA and APA Style

Louise Pfau
 

I always did the in-line citations while writing the paper, and the reference page at the end.  I was taught to do the formatting correctly, so I had to check character by character.
 
Louise


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Chris Shook wrote:
I tested it with Narrator and was able to see the menus.
-
Now I'm confused.  What is it that you are experiencing NVDA "not seeing"?  

It sounds like you've figured out how Downloads is now working subsequent to the most recent changes.  And I agree with you that this is one of those instances where it really feels like change for change's sake.  What's been done makes more steps needed to accomplish the same task and violates the almost sacrosanct UI design principle of simplify, simplify, simplify.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Gene
 

What menus can’t you see?  As far as I know, I can see everything. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Edge Chromium
 
Hi Kenny,
THanks for testing that. I tested it with Narrator and was able to see
the menus.
It looks like it's just changes that NVDA is having an issue with.





nvda installation

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

A friend is installing NVDA on a new windows 10 pc. When he opens the general options in the NVDA settings everything between logging level and check for updates is grayed out. what causes this?
*********
family Times weekly Movie times
 

go to Doc's Stream
http://stream.wrighthere.net:8000/stream.mp3
Ask Miss A to play family times on tuneIn
You can also find family times on OoTunes.
 
 

walking in VictoryI welcome all that are interested in joining our devotionals on Monday thru saturdays at 8am EST. join the devotion channel.
Also, there is a weekly bible study at 8pm EST in the Walking with Jesus channel.
 

Add the following information in your TeamTalk
host address: wiv.wrighthere.net
TCP/UDP ports: 10333
 
entry name: walking in Victory
tab twice and press space on Add/update
 

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