Date   

Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

OK, but that still doesn't explain to me why Build 19041.572 shows Version 2004 if it is indeed a feature update.  No earlier feature updates, including the ones that were "trivial" feature updates, have left the version number the same.  I expect I will see Version 20H2 once the feature update is applied.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

Hi,

No, 19042 just graduated to stable build status. Although the build numbers are different, 2004 and 20H2 share same system internals – there are hidden flags that the enablement package for 20H2 will simply modify, which is essentially the same mechanism as 2019 feature updates.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows feature update 20h2

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 02:59 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

NO, it's a feature update - build 19042.572.

-
Joseph, just so you know, I have 19041.572, and winver still shows Version 2004.  I think 19042 is fast ring, but don't they generally keep the dot numbers the same?

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 02:59 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
NO, it's a feature update - build 19042.572.
-
Joseph, just so you know, I have 19041.572, and winver still shows Version 2004.  I think 19042 is fast ring, but don't they generally keep the dot numbers the same?

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

Hi,
NO, it's a feature update - build 19042.572. To check if you've got Version 20H2, open Action Center and see if "tablet mode" is present on desktop systems - if it isn't, then you have 20H2 unless tablet mode is unpinned.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows feature update 20h2

If you're referring to build # 572, I don't know what the new features are, bas I've seen no change in behavior or programs since I installed it on three systems.


On 10/20/2020 2:28 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Just noticed its come out, not yet for my laptop, but I will wait for it.

What have users found with it so far.



On 21/10/2020 7:16 am, Don H wrote:
Just installed the latest feature update to Windows 10. Took less
than 10 minutes to install. I was offered it as a optional update.


Re: windows feature update 20h2

Steve Matzura
 

If you're referring to build # 572, I don't know what the new features are, bas I've seen no change in behavior or programs since I installed it on three systems.

On 10/20/2020 2:28 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Just noticed its come out, not yet for my laptop, but I will wait for it.

What have users found with it so far.



On 21/10/2020 7:16 am, Don H wrote:
Just installed the latest feature update to Windows 10.  Took less than 10 minutes to install.  I was offered it as a optional update.


Re: windows feature update 20h2

Don H
 

See no difference after installing the feature update.

On 10/20/2020 1:28 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Just noticed its come out, not yet for my laptop, but I will wait for it.

What have users found with it so far.



On 21/10/2020 7:16 am, Don H wrote:
Just installed the latest feature update to Windows 10.  Took less than 10 minutes to install.  I was offered it as a optional update.











Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

Just noticed its come out, not yet for my laptop, but I will wait for it.

What have users found with it so far.

On 21/10/2020 7:16 am, Don H wrote:
Just installed the latest feature update to Windows 10.  Took less than 10 minutes to install.  I was offered it as a optional update.






Re: Buying Compact vocalizer voices

Daniel McGee
 

It is because I have a hearing impairment. This is why I prefer compact versions. I'm only seeing the normal versions of the vocalizer expressive voices and not the compact ones.

On 20 Oct 2020, at 17:24, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins@gmail.com> wrote:

I personally don't know why people like the compact voices. To me,
they sound like complete crap and are all full of static. I've got
Daniel on my computer and could use him with NVDA if I wanted. I have
the scansoft version of him using SAPI5. However, he isn't my
favorite voice. He sounds very arrogant and snobbish at least to me.
But to each their own. Good luck.

On 10/20/20, Chris via groups.io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
You get all voices available to you to use including Daniel and whatever
other voices you need to use


From: Daniel McGee
Sent: 20 October 2020 16:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Buying Compact vocalizer voices

H







--
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson





windows feature update 20h2

Don H
 

Just installed the latest feature update to Windows 10.  Took less than 10 minutes to install.  I was offered it as a optional update.


Re: NVDA Settings Documentation

 

Gene,

          There's definitely intelligence being displayed in relation to links, at the very least.  It would be disastrous to split links in virtually any context I can think of.  They really are an atomic unit.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: NVDA Settings Documentation

 

Hi,
Had to dig into C++ part of NvDA to figure this out:
This setting sets browse mode line length, so yes, it applies to when reading by line. Specifically, based on what I can tell, it will do its best to break at word boundaries. This is one of the reasons why links can "span" across multiple lines in browse mode.
In terms of documenting this, one way to improve this is taking Brian's suggestions into account: expand that section and give practical examples, like the following:

This field sets the maximum length of a line in browse mode (in characters) for reading by line purposes.
Unlike documents in programs such as Word and Notepad, browse mode documents do not have a specific line length or a new line character to denote ends of lines.
Because of this, you can set arbitrary line lengths between 10 and 250 characters, and NVDA will try to split lines at word boundaries.
A side effect of this setting is that links and other elements will be split onto multiple browse mode lines.

I'm sure we can make it better, but at least the one I wrote above might be a useful starting point and captures the discussion so far.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 9:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation

We'll see what others say but I know it applies to moving by lines. If I do something else that causes a line to be read, such as move by screen, with page up or down, or move to beginning or end of a document or tab, I would think it would apply in all those contexts, but we'll see what others say.

The intelligent question is a very interesting one and One I haven't thought of. Based on my experience, I don't recall ever having words split when I read in browse mode and the document has no such splitting, I think it is intelligent.

Just how much of such discussions should be in the user guide depends on what the purpose of the guide is. Perhaps some of these stipulations should be in some sort of document for developers or a wiki rather than in a user guide.

I wonder if this or that effect of a command my not be considered when discussing it by those who really know details. A wiki might be a good way to address this. I just found this very interesting discrepancy:
If I set the line length to a short amount, moving using k to move by link will cause an entire link to be read, no matter how long. Moving by arrow or tab and shift tab, will cause the line length stipulated to be read with more of the link being read as I move in the link. Its an interesting discrepancy and one I wonder if those knowledgeable in the matter have given any thought about as to implementation and what is desirable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:
I would compare it to Word Wrap in Notepad except that you define the number of characters before the wrap occurs.- Gene, that is a good analogy. But what I want to know is what "reading command context(s)" this has an effect on. I'm imagining only line-by-line reading, but . . .

Having something under the setting such as, "If a document has a line longer than the number of characters you set, for line reading it will be split into multiple virtual lines of the maximum length you specify."

I also wonder if it's intelligent as far as splitting at word boundaries, not hard and fast character counts. Mid-word splits would make things potentially very ugly.

That setting, naked as it is, is not something that's intuitive, clearly, just based on this topic. And I'm not saying that you're arguing that it is, just restating the need for some context regarding settings where the effect of same is in no way immediately obvious to the uninitiated (and even the initiated, much later on).

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: Buying Compact vocalizer voices

Joshua Hendrickson
 

I personally don't know why people like the compact voices. To me,
they sound like complete crap and are all full of static. I've got
Daniel on my computer and could use him with NVDA if I wanted. I have
the scansoft version of him using SAPI5. However, he isn't my
favorite voice. He sounds very arrogant and snobbish at least to me.
But to each their own. Good luck.

On 10/20/20, Chris via groups.io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
You get all voices available to you to use including Daniel and whatever
other voices you need to use


From: Daniel McGee
Sent: 20 October 2020 16:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Buying Compact vocalizer voices

H






--
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson


Re: NVDA Settings Documentation

Gene
 

We'll see what others say but I know it applies to moving by lines. If I do something else that causes a line to be read, such as move by screen, with page up or down, or move to beginning or end of a document or tab, I would think it would apply in all those contexts, but we'll see what others say.

The intelligent question is a very interesting one and One I haven't thought of. Based on my experience, I don't recall ever having words split when I read in browse mode and the document has no such splitting, I think it is intelligent.

Just how much of such discussions should be in the user guide depends on what the purpose of the guide is. Perhaps some of these stipulations should be in some sort of document for developers or a wiki rather than in a user guide.

I wonder if this or that effect of a command my not be considered when discussing it by those who really know details. A wiki might be a good way to address this. I just found this very interesting discrepancy:
If I set the line length to a short amount, moving using k to move by link will cause an entire link to be read, no matter how long. Moving by arrow or tab and shift tab, will cause the line length stipulated to be read with more of the link being read as I move in the link. Its an interesting discrepancy and one I wonder if those knowledgeable in the matter have given any thought about as to implementation and what is desirable.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:
I would compare it to Word Wrap in Notepad except that you define the number of characters before the wrap occurs.-
Gene, that is a good analogy. But what I want to know is what "reading command context(s)" this has an effect on. I'm imagining only line-by-line reading, but . . .

Having something under the setting such as, "If a document has a line longer than the number of characters you set, for line reading it will be split into multiple virtual lines of the maximum length you specify."

I also wonder if it's intelligent as far as splitting at word boundaries, not hard and fast character counts. Mid-word splits would make things potentially very ugly.

That setting, naked as it is, is not something that's intuitive, clearly, just based on this topic. And I'm not saying that you're arguing that it is, just restating the need for some context regarding settings where the effect of same is in no way immediately obvious to the uninitiated (and even the initiated, much later on).

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: control+f - The General Purpose Find Command in Windows

Laurie Mehta
 

Agreed, and very well said. Thank you Gene for this contribution.
LM
“May the Lord of peace himself give you peace at all times and in every way.”
(2 Thessalonians 3:16)

On Oct 20, 2020, at 08:10, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

NVDA f is used for formating information and it is so long established that it should be left as it is. That is particularly so since JAWS uses the same command to announce formatting information, and that makes using the two screen-readers more similar and helps in a transition or if people use both.

Why don't you use the search command as it is? I would think you could change it to something else, since NVDA lets you change keystrokes for commands. But you may want to choose something other than what you initially specified since you would then have to change the announce formatting command and the letter f, standing for formatting, used with the NVDA key is a logical command.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: John Sanfilippo
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 7:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] control+f

I have two wishes concerning NVDA control F: 1, That it change to just NVDA f, I never use that. 2, That they do away with having to press Enter when search not found. O, and #, that it makes a sound and wraps to the top again.






Re: control+f - The General Purpose Find Command in Windows

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:10 AM, Gene wrote:
I would think you could change it to something else, since NVDA lets you change keystrokes for commands.
-
In addition to several Windows utilities.  No software running under Windows is going to change commands of very long standing and that are understood by an immense user base to suit a user or small group of users.

I, like you, encourage people to "get used to it" and use commands as is.  And that's not snarky or nasty, but from having seen, far too often, that people flounder when they customize command sequences and are thrown into a situation where they need to use a different computer.  They very often cannot remember what they've customized nor how they even did it as time passes by.  Being able to be plopped in front of a strange machine, but that's running the screen reader you're familiar with, and being able to just pick up and go is important.  Heck, it happens every time you get a new computer.

Note:  Topic title expanded for archival purposes
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: Buying Compact vocalizer voices

Chris
 

You get all voices available to you to use including Daniel and whatever other voices you need to use

 

 

From: Daniel McGee
Sent: 20 October 2020 16:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Buying Compact vocalizer voices

 

H

 


Re: NVDA Settings Documentation

 

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:
I would compare it to Word Wrap in Notepad except that you define the number of characters before the wrap occurs.
-
Gene, that is a good analogy.  But what I want to know is what "reading command context(s)" this has an effect on.  I'm imagining only line-by-line reading, but . . .

Having something under the setting such as, "If a document has a line longer than the number of characters you set, for line reading it will be split into multiple virtual lines of the maximum length you specify."

I also wonder if it's intelligent as far as splitting at word boundaries, not hard and fast character counts.  Mid-word splits would make things potentially very ugly.

That setting, naked as it is, is not something that's intuitive, clearly, just based on this topic.  And I'm not saying that you're arguing that it is, just restating the need for some context regarding settings where the effect of same is in no way immediately obvious to the uninitiated (and even the initiated, much later on).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Louis Maher
 

Hello,

 

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:
Open an Excel spreadsheet. 
Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that
box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

This is the same here.

It seems to work better with other screen readers.

May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has started.

Best

Sylvie

 

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 15:22
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field
With QBraille XL and a recent NVDA alpha
Think this has been the case for a while


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


Buying Compact vocalizer voices

Daniel McGee
 

Hello everyone

Is it at all possible to purchase the Compact vocalizer voices to be used in conjunction with NVDA? In particular, UK Daniel compact.

If not, then could this be possible with a future update to the expressive voices for the future? As I personally prefer compact variant to whatever the other one is called.

Am currently in the process of my 7 day trial with the code factory voices. So far, am loving the fact that I can use Eloquence with NVDA. If Daniel compact could also be used that'll be the icing on the cake for me. Plus I'll be using the the same voice on my iPhone.


Thanks in advance for any feedback on this matter.

Regards

Daniel


Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello,

This is the same here.

It seems to work better with other screen readers.

May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has started.

Best

Sylvie

 

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 15:22
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field
With QBraille XL and a recent NVDA alpha
Think this has been the case for a while


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie

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