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Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
Gene
It may be that on some systems, Thunderbird doesn't work correctly. I've seen complaints about sluggishness before, though most of the comments I've seen have been favorable.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Wood Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:00 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much Thunderbird is amazingly sluggish for me and takes up well over 700 MB of ram. How is this okay (not aimed at anyone here). Maybe it was my configuration. I’ve been using Microsoft outlook which, surprisingly, works very well. Windows mail worked fantastic too though from what I remember it did not close threaded messages correctly and kept them all expanded. I’m not sure if that has been fixed. From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:55 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much I actually agree. Its got its own niggles but its still good enough. And with waterfox, I just tried a full run. While there are sites which will generate freezes, its only 1 or 2 and I can get round them. Quite impressed with it, seems to be mostly working and thats good. On 23/10/2020 2:40 am, Chris Smart wrote: Thunderbird is great and responds really really quickly! and that's coming from someone who stubbornly stuck to using eudora, even into Windows 10. Yes, I used Eudora for probably twenty years. LOL Just curious, what annoys you about Thunderbird? It is highly customizable, so maybe you just need to tweak some things. On 2020-10-22 9:06 a.m., John Sanfilippo wrote: Hi, which PC app do you like for mail. I'm watching out for something to replace Thunderbird. Thanks. John Sanfilippo
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Re: nvda and ham calls
Ron Canazzi
Hi Sara,
Using JAWS, there was a setting to 'spell alpha numeric expressions.' NVDA does not have this option. What I do when running nets is to highlight the callsign and then use the keypad 5 key to read the callsign and if I can't tell what the call is initially, I double punch the 5 key to have the expression spelled alpha numerically as in alpha alpha 2 victor Mike. On 10/22/2020 1:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
-- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Re: nvda and ham calls
Roger Stewart
I'll second this one! I can't
understand regular expressions but someone might be able to make
an add on to do this.
KG9GP
Roger
On 10/22/2020 12:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
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Re: web sites detecting a screen reader
Hope,
As the old sayings go, "Different strokes for different folks," and, "Each according to his or her own taste." That being said, I agree with Mr. Robinett that anyone needs to think long and hard before setting a flag on your screen reader to ignore accessibility-focused features in websites. It often ends up being a "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" sort of affair. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041 It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white. ~ Kelley Boorn
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Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 12:59 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
takes up well over 700 MB of ram. How is this okay (not aimed at anyone here). Maybe it was my configuration.- And I'll bet you're right. I often have browsers taking up 500 MB plus, sometimes 1 GB or more, of memory because of the number of tabs/windows I keep open, but I never see anything like that with Outlook, Thunderbird, eMClient, etc., as they're set up on my system. Right now I have Outlook 2016 up in the main mail window and it's only taking approximately 34 MB. Just closed it and fired up Tbird, which is taking just under 300 MB as it's working it's little heart out to sync things (I haven't fired it up in a while) and settles out around 250 MB afterward. eM Client comes in at around 115 MB. In the case of Tbird, I am using TbSync and another add-on that keep calendar and contacts in Sync with Gmail, and those definitely take up memory and CPU cycles of their own, but listed as Thunderbird. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041 It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white. ~ Kelley Boorn
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Re: web sites detecting a screen reader
Hope Williamson
Me neither!!! Exactly, I much prefer quick navigation.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 10/22/2020 11:02 AM, tim wrote:
Those features given at the top of screen for navigation I never used.
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Re: web sites detecting a screen reader
tim
Those features given at the top of screen for navigation I never used.
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My screen reader offers better and those are just in the way for my style of browsing.
On 10/22/2020 1:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
As a blind person, NVDA user and web developer myself, I don’t recommend telling the screen reader to ignore the SR flag. It sounds like there are a few misguided websites out there who are implementing heavy-handed screen reader experiences on their pages, but you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users. Behind the scenes, we use CSS media queries to expose those options only when a screen reader is detected, and I think we all agree those features are generally helpful. A similar technique is used when a graphical icon is depicted visually but it’s actual purpose ”menu,” ”settings,” ”submit,” etc. is spoken aloud to screen reader users. In short, you might find websites become far less accessible if you tell them to ignore the presence of a screen reader.On Oct 21, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
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Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365
Louis Maher
Past experience suggests that Microsoft makes a change, and it breaks either NVDA or JAWS or both.
Regards Louis Maher Phone: 713-444-7838 E-mail ljmaher03@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 7:37 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365
Louis and others, The question is : is this a Microsoft or NVDA issue? I did not want to mention the screen reader’s name here, but as you did, I don’t encounter the problem with JAWS when the checkbox is enabled. Best Sylvie De :
nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Folks,
Unchecking this box effects JAWS as well.
When the NVDA, or Microsoft, error is corrected, you can check this box, and your Excel editing will go faster.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Hello Louis and all, Thank you for this tip, it works! Does anyone know what this checkbox is for? Why checking this box prevents NVDA from using braille in cells but not other screEn readers? Best Sylvie De :
nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Hello,
This problem comes up periodically. You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”. In Excel 365, do this:
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Hello, This is the same here. It seems to work better with other screen readers. May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has started. Best Sylvie
De :
nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
De la part de Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io
In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field
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Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365
Louis Maher
Hello,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
This error shows up every couple of years. I believe Microsoft changes something and it takes the screen readers time to make a change. Another explanation is that Microsoft breaks something then fixes it. This issue comes and goes and predates Office 365. Regards Louis Maher Phone: 713-444-7838 E-mail ljmaher03@outlook.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 9:39 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365 Hello Howard and all, As Louis wrote, this checkbox is in the Excel advanced options. If you uncheck it, you can read Excel cells content in Braille when editing it with f2. I contacted the Microsoft Disability Help Desk and told them about the problem. They told me they would investigate. I had a look on an older PC with NVDA 2020.3 and Excel 2013. The Checkbox exists also and I did not identify the braille problem. So I suppose it is related to Office 365 and NVDA. Best Sylvie -----Message d'origine----- De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Howard Traxler via groups.io Envoyé : jeudi 22 octobre 2020 16:29 À : nvda@nvda.groups.io Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365 Someone please tell me about this checkbox. To whom does it belong (JAWS, NVDA, windows, etc.) and where is it found? I'd like to take a look. Howard On 10/22/2020 5:42 AM, Louis Maher wrote:
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Re: web sites detecting a screen reader
Hope Williamson
I use a screen reader, and I still think they're annoying. Maybe
that's just me, though. They get in the way.
On 10/22/2020 10:51 AM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 01:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
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Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
Well if your email program is slow maybe you should check your inboxes and make sure you archive things right. For me, I don't really keep anything much. Its been working for me so far.
On 23/10/2020 6:20 am, Tyler Wood
wrote:
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Re: web sites detecting a screen reader
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 01:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users.- Yup. Those of us (I'm sighted) who've never touched a screen reader never even know they're there. These features are the Mr. Cellophane of web coding for the sighted (and for those who don't get the reference, go to YouTube and look up cellophane and Chicago). There are all sorts of things done to improve accessibility that are intentionally hidden from view because they're useless (and would be darned annoying, actually) unless you happen to be using a screen reader. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041 It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white. ~ Kelley Boorn
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Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
Chris Smart
I haven't noticed any of that. I don't know about RAM usage, but performance is snappy.
On 2020-10-22 1:20 p.m., Tyler Wood
wrote:
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nvda and ham calls
Hello to all. For those that don't know, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in a week I'm due to run a net. Fine, except I struggle with reading ham calls. I know on the BNS there was a ham calls option where it would read those such as ke7zum. Is there such a thing for nvda? Or can an option be thought of, an add on that could be turned on and off at will to allow for such? I know this won't happen by the 27th when I'm due to control, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like this. I'm using the ibm tts voices but espeak and david does this as well. I can't code or I would find a way to do this myself. The thing that makes this harder is not all call signs are 2 by 3 like mine. Some are a 1 by 1, or a 1 by 2. I've even seen some 2 by 2 calls. Thanks all. -- Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. Check out my adventures with a shadow machine. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
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Re: web sites detecting a screen reader
Luke Robinett
As a blind person, NVDA user and web developer myself, I don’t recommend telling the screen reader to ignore the SR flag. It sounds like there are a few misguided websites out there who are implementing heavy-handed screen reader experiences on their pages, but you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users. Behind the scenes, we use CSS media queries to expose those options only when a screen reader is detected, and I think we all agree those features are generally helpful. A similar technique is used when a graphical icon is depicted visually but it’s actual purpose ”menu,” ”settings,” ”submit,” etc. is spoken aloud to screen reader users. In short, you might find websites become far less accessible if you tell them to ignore the presence of a screen reader.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Oct 21, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
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Re: web sites detecting a screen reader
Luke Robinett
Gene, you can tell NVDA not to announce dynamic content. This is probably the setting you had in mind. Perhaps you could create a separate configuration profile with that setting disabled and then switch to it only when you encounter those problematic websites?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Oct 21, 2020, at 3:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
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Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
Tyler Wood
I beg to differ on all counts. When an email client takes well over 700 MB of ram, stops responding while browsing messages, takes 20 or more seconds to browse folders, I have a hard time using it or being productive. This is on a machine with an SSD, Ryzen 7 processor and plenty of ram to use, that being said. Maybe things have changed lately – I’m more than willing to give thunderbird another go – but outlook has come leaps and bounds even over the last year, too, with both Jaws and NVDA.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:14 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
Funny, outlook is the example I give when someone asks me about sluggish software. Outlook paired with a certain other program named after a movie shark is even more so!
On 2020-10-22 1:00 p.m., Tyler Wood wrote:
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Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
Chris Smart
Funny, outlook is the example I give when someone asks me about sluggish software. Outlook paired with a certain other program named after a movie shark is even more so!
On 2020-10-22 1:00 p.m., Tyler Wood
wrote:
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Re: NVDA misbehaving after a Windows Update and NVDA Update
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 06:33 AM, r pardhasaradhi reddy wrote:
I update windows to 2018 to 2020.- Can you please hit the Windows key, immediately type winver, hit enter, then report back the exact Windows 10 Version and Build number on your machine? You can also hit WinKey+R, enter winver in the edit box, then hit Enter if you prefer. There was no Windows 10 2018 nor is there a Windows 10 2020. Since there are two Feature Updates per calendar year, it's really essential that we know precisely which version of Windows 10 you're running. Then we can move on from there. It would also be helpful for you to hit NVDA+H,A and make certain that the NVDA version itself is 2020.3 and report back whether it is or is not, and if it is not, give the version number. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041 It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white. ~ Kelley Boorn
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Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
Tyler Wood
Thunderbird is amazingly sluggish for me and takes up well over 700 MB of ram. How is this okay (not aimed at anyone here). Maybe it was my configuration. I’ve been using Microsoft outlook which, surprisingly, works very well. Windows mail worked fantastic too though from what I remember it did not close threaded messages correctly and kept them all expanded. I’m not sure if that has been fixed.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:55 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much
I actually agree. Its got its own niggles but its still good enough. And with waterfox, I just tried a full run. While there are sites which will generate freezes, its only 1 or 2 and I can get round them. Quite impressed with it, seems to be mostly working and thats good.
On 23/10/2020 2:40 am, Chris Smart wrote:
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