Date   

Re: OCR and pdfs

Gene
 

If the document is completely blank, is it possible it is protected in some way and isn't showing anything to the OCR program?  What program are you opening the document in before scanning it?
 
I don't work with PDF documents much but a document where there aren't even garbled attempts at recognition makes me suspicious that nothing is being seen.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR and pdfs

I do not know since it is a lot of pages that are scanned images instead of text entered directly into the document.


Dan

On 2/14/2019 1:16 PM, JM Casey wrote:

Not all text will oCR.

How is the text printed?

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: February 14, 2019 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] OCR and pdfs

 

HI,

 

I have a pdf that I really need to ocr.  I am trying to use the Windows ocr via nvda+r.   It says it is running the ocr but it comes back with nothing.  I know the page of the pdf has text so I am confused about why it isn't OCR ing the thing.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks.

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KC4DOY)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KC4DOY)


Re: Need help learning Braille

Giles Turnbull
 

I learned my letters and numbers and grade 2 contractions when I had a whole year of adult vision rehab training in Atlanta. Sadly, through lack of use, I've forgotten all the contractions and I understand it's all Unified English Braille (UEB) now.

As a diabetic doing several finger prick blood tests every day (a minimum of four if I manage to line my test strip up with the drop of blood, as many as 4 per test if I don't) I found my fingertip sensitivity did not easily register the Braile characters. I must say though, the Braille on prescription medications (at least in the UK) is very handy to still be able to decipher ... I used it yesterday to get the right bottle of the two insulins I use.

I am hoping to try an interstitial fouid glucose system once I can upgrade my iPhone so that I won't need to do as many fingertip blood tests. That might improve my fingertip sensitivity and make reading Braille a little easier :)


Re: Problems With NVDA

Gene
 

What does easier mean?  Such statements cannot be evaluated because they express an opinion and give no examples or information.  I don't find either easier to use, overall.  I find certain specific features such as history easier to use in Firefox.  But in general, I find them both about the same.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems With NVDA

I may be wrong, but at least when using NVDA, GoogleChrome is a lot
esier to use than firefox.



Re: Problems With NVDA

Gene
 

How much more and are you talking about Quantum or before Quantum?  You can test with Firefox Portable and not install anything on your machine.  Let's say that Firefox does use more RAM.  I am very skeptical that it uses enough to account for the problems discussed.  But as I said, it can be determined if it uses enough to reduce efficiency of functioning of the machine. And I really doubt that Internet Explorer uses a lot more memory than Chrome.   
 
I have no objection if someone says that memory might be the problem and suggests checking memory use.  I am skeptical but any stronger statements without more information may be encouraging someone to spend money on RAM and maybe paying someone to put it in without knowing if it will be likely to help.  RAM itself isn't too expensive but if you pay someone to put it in, you may be talking about enough money that you wouldn't want to spend it without a good reason to believe it would help.
 
Also, this question depends on how you use the browser.  This article discusses the question and, as you will see, memory useage changes significantly if you have more tabs opened.  So that is another reason I am skeptical that this is a memory issue.  Firefox may well use more RAM but if you only have two tabs opened, I really doubt there is a significant difference.  So how is this specific person using his browsers?  And again, what does memory useage information tell us about how much is being used and how much is available still to the machine?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems With NVDA

I'm sorry, but I *must* take issue with your statement that firefox
doesn't take more ram than chrome.  (I can't speak to inernet explorer,
having never used it), but it's easy to go into your process list on your
computer, and watch both the cpu usage and the ram used when programs are
running, and every time I've done this (not that I've done it ever on my
own machine, because I refuse to load firefox on my machines), I've seen a
significant difference between firefox and chrome when it comes both to
cpu and ram usage.  Personal experience, even on other operating systems
other than windows has proven to me that firefox eats way more cpu than
chrome, which honestly isn't surprising, since firefox was designed from
the beginning to run on regular pcs, and chrome was initially designed to
run on tablets, at a time when ram was a precious comodity.  From my own
personal observations, and (if you look), various forums, it's easily
verifyable that firefox and chrome are vastly different when it comes to
cpu and memory usage, so don't make the claim that tfirefox doesn't use
more memory than chrome, because that my friend is a blatent false hood.

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019, Gene wrote:

> At this point, however, there is no reason to believe memory has anything to
> do with the problem.  Firefox and Internet Explorer don't use more memory
> than Chrome.  If memory were that scarce, that running a different browser,
> even if it used a little more, would cause problems, then you would have
> lots of problems with other programs because you would be on the verge of
> running out of RAM in general.  RAM is one of the most misunderstood
> components of computers and it is blamed often for problems that have
> nothing to do with RAM.  You can see how much RAM is being used if you want
> to see if it is the problem.  I don't know what version of Windows is being
> used so I won't describe how. 
>  
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----




Musings on recent posts: add-on writing, control labels, and others

 

Hi all,

 

I’m starting a brand new thread in order to gather all sorts of musings about recent messages under one roof (the very last message from someone on mouse nav thread is akin to thread hijacking, so I’m bringing more detailed answer here).

 

Before going into some musings (at least one arising out of anger), I’d like to disclose who I am so you can better understand where I’m coming from and the general direction of what I’ll be saying below:

 

First, you may know me as one of the visible faces of NVDA community, or rather, one of the slightly better known faces of assistive technology. I’ve been part of this community (officially) since 2012, starting out as a new translator. Prior to joining this community, I represented BrailleNote users and worked together with HumanWare in some things here and there from user side (yes, I’m the one who brought you support for BrailleNote Apex in NVDA not long ago).

 

After joining the NVDA community, I began contributing my skills as a computer science student with small things here and there. Of these, two stand out: creation of Welcome to NVDA tutorial series in 2013, and being the founding chair of NVDA Users and Developers Conference (NVDACon) in March 2014. In addition, I wrote some old add-ons, including Control Usage Assistant (end of life) and Enhanced Touch Gestures. In 2013, I became a moderator of this very forum (back then, it was hosted somewhere else), resigning in 2016 to focus on other activities such as add-on reviews, school, and testing Windows 10 builds.

 

At the moment I’m studying communication studies at a local university, compete in intercollegiate speech tournaments, and write and review various community add-ons. I also help out with NVDA development from time to time, and currently am the lead architect for a project to bring add-on updating functionality to NVDA itself. Some of you may also know me from other lists, such as Win10 Forum for Screen Reader Users (where I’m the owner/head list representative) and others.

 

With that background out of the way: here are my thoughts on recent messages, attitudes, and requests from a veteran NVDA user, a developer, an add-on author and reviewer, and one of the visible faces of this community (also as a former moderator of this very forum):

 

Control labels: a feature request for providing custom labels isn’t new. Having dealt with this issue myself recently (and seeing it resolved satisfactorily), I think a hybrid approach is needed, with emphasis placed on attitudes of vendors, not just NVDA people (the approach being trying to persuade vendors). If I’m reading the messages correctly, there appears to be a prevailing attitude among some third-party vendors that they should design the user interface and then think about accessibility. I am a strong opponent of such attitude, and would consider writing to vendors first BEFORE asking NVDA community to do something. Recognizing labels may help, but that’s not a long-term solution – the long-term solution starts with examination of attitudes of today’s programming students, not a “late design” discussion.

 

As for add-on writing: please do not treat this list as a “buy, sell,. Or trade” list for add-on authoring jobs in the context of paying a non-user to write an add-on for you (I’m angry and serious about this assertion). Few reasons:

  • Actual person: a “friend of yours” who you decide to pay may not even know what exactly a “disability” is. Without being exposed to it and willingness to be educated, that friend may not step on the right spot when writing an add-on, let alone using NVDA.
  • You: the add-on your friend may come up with may not be the answer you’re looking for. Think carefully: what is worse: not getting an add-on, or getting something out of context?
  • Community: if this kind of attitude is allowed to stay, some folks here may think that they don’t have to show any effort when it comes to writing add-ons – you can just ask someone to write an add-on for you, and that person happens to know nothing about disability culture at all.

 

The following is one add-on reviewer’s note on this whole attitude: if I find out that an add-on I’m reviewing went through this very attitude (you pay a non-user to write an add-on and if that person isn’t willing to learn more about disability culture and attitude), then I’ll make sure to put a “red light” on my review sheet (i.e. fail the review and notify the community. Yes, I’m serious about what I just said, because this kind of attitude should NOT perpetuate anymore. If you have any compelling objections, please talk to me privately.

 

But what if that friend of yours shows willingness to educate oneself about disability culture and attitude? Then I think it should be examined on a case by case basis. Then perhaps we can direct him or her to appropriate channels to assist him or her in coming up with a solution that benefits many people. Once it becomes time to review an add-on from that individual, perhaps we’ll provide some useful pointers and comments.

 

In summary, what I’m looking for is willingness to show consideration for free will. If there’s one thing that’ll sustain this community, it is not code or how many add-ons or features NVDA has – it is attitude of people. Thus, in regards to an add-on for a video editing software, if the uneasy attitude I described is still being perpetuated, then I’d like to turn down your request for one for now.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: is there a way to label unlabeled buttons using NVDA?

Gene
 

I believe in JAWS you can do that as well but I'm not sure.  JAWS has a label graphics dictionary and, if JAWS considers a button a graphic, it could be labeled. 
 
Gene
----- original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] is there a way to label unlabeled buttons using NVDA?

We used to have that feature in windoeyes.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: 14 February 2019 15:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] is there a way to label unlabeled buttons using NVDA?

 

I'm not aware of such a feature in NVDA.
It would be pretty good, though. Someone may have already done the request regarding it, so let's hope this is an option coming soon ;)

Just out of curiosity, what's the program/app name?

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 14/02/2019 13:21, molly the blind tech lover escreveu:

Hey guys, molly here again.

Is there a way to label unlabeled buttons with NVDA? I downloaded an app and when I swipe using the touchscreen or navigate with the keyboard NVDA just says button, button.the app is a collection of text adventure games.  and while the game’s are accessible, the titles of the games in the games library  aren’t labeled.

Any help will be greatly appreciated 😊

Thanks.

 

Molly

 

 


Re: OCR and pdfs

Lino Morales
 

Hi Dan. I hate to suggest this on the NVDA list, but have you tried to use convenient OCR with that other screen reader that has a sharky? Good luck.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Dan Beaver <dbeaver888@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 11:40:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] OCR and pdfs
 

HI,


I have a pdf that I really need to ocr.  I am trying to use the Windows ocr via nvda+r.   It says it is running the ocr but it comes back with nothing.  I know the page of the pdf has text so I am confused about why it isn't OCR ing the thing.


Any ideas?


Thanks.


-- 
Dan Beaver (KC4DOY)


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Gene
 

I haven't compared this to any extent and not for a long time.  It is my impression that JAWS is set by default, or can be set, to announce more graphics, at least in certain cases and that this may matter if you are trying to click on a clickable graphic.  But I'm not sure your distinction as to where things are on screen is correct. 
 
For example, in your example, you want to click on something on the left bottom of the screen.  There are screen review commands in NVDA to move you to the top line of the currewnt navigator object and to the bottom line of the navigator object.  There are commands to move you to the first character of the line you are on and the last character.  That is, the line you are on in the navigator object.
If I want to move to the bottom line, I would use shift 9 using the desktop layout.  If I want to move to the first character, I would then use shift 1. 
 
I can't be sure if this is the kind of thing you are describing you want NVDA to do, but it sounds as though that is part of it.  One thing NVDA doesn't have is a search the screen when in screen review feature.  This is an important feature that should be added. 
 
There are times you know a certain word or phrase is on a screen in a display with no cursor.  If you want to jump to it, you can't do so now.  If there were a find command, you could.
 
Gene
 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Again, you misunderstand what I am saying.

If you need to click on something at the bottom left hand side of the
screen, it is easier to do this with the JAWS cursor, than any feature of
NVDA.  Window-Eyes had it best of all, because it had live mouse keys all
the time.

You can move by graphic, or by clip, for example.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 14 February 2019 14:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, I do not  think there are any visual enhancements in nvda. The name
itself says it; Non visual display access.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-14-19 8:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, this is not true.  Either can be used well with the mouse, and you've
taken what I'm saying out of context.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: 13 February 2019 17:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Someone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but NVDA is designed so
that a low vision user can use the mouse.
JAWS, on the other hand, is strictly for someone that is totally blind.
Therefore, it would be less likely to be able to navigate by the mouse.
















Re: is there a way to label unlabeled buttons using NVDA?

Kevin Cussick
 

I know from years back that it has been asked for. but up to now the devs have not implemented it yet.

On 14/02/2019 16:33, Mallard wrote:
I'm afraid they haven't broght it to NVDA. I wonder why though.
I know it was there in Jaws, and I suppose it still is, though I haven't seen a Jaws version afer 2009.
We ahve it in Android, with both Sunshine and TalkBack.
Pity there isn't even an add-on that does that in NVDA!
Ciao,
Ollie
Il 14/02/2019 16:39, marcio via Groups.Io ha scritto:
I'm not aware of such a feature in NVDA.
It would be pretty good, though. Someone may have already done the request regarding it, so let's hope this is an option coming soon ;)
Just out of curiosity, what's the program/app name?

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter <https://twitter.com/firirinfonfon>

Em 14/02/2019 13:21, molly the blind tech lover escreveu:

Hey guys, molly here again.

Is there a way to label unlabeled buttons with NVDA? I downloaded an app and when I swipe using the touchscreen or navigate with the keyboard NVDA just says button, button.the app is a collection of text adventure games.  and while the game’s are accessible, the titles of the games in the games library  aren’t labeled.

Any help will be greatly appreciated 😊

Thanks.

Molly


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Gene
 

A better verbal representation when you are doing what, using the JAWS cursor?  And what makes it better.  You can set the JAWS cursor to unrestricted, which shows you not just the program window but whatever else it can see on screen.  But it isn't clear to me what you are comparing in terms of what you see and how.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

This is nothing to do with what I am saying.

I am saying that JAWS gives a better verbal representation of the screen as
laid out visually.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: 13 February 2019 17:11
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

In my experience, NVDA is a lot better at using the mouse when the screen
reader is active.
With JAWS, the mouse can be trouble. According to some sighted people I've
asked for help, the mouse doesn't go where you want it to. At least, that's
the way it was about two years ago.








Re: NVDA and sounds

Chris Shook
 

So basically, JAWS has a feature with no practical purpose, probably designed for when your really just bored and trying to goof off.
I guess it's good that they took the time to add a feature just for fun.
There is a game for the blind called A hero's call that seems to have moving sound and speach. They recommend you use headphones when you play the game. After your explanation, I can appreciate how difficult it'd be to create something like that especially for the blind by the blind.


Re: NVDA and sounds

 

You know criss, screen readers are designed to read the screen.

And I suspect that thats mostly text.

Now an emoji, icon, or picture with alt text and maybe a simbol is one thing but moving pictures, thats another.

The closest we will probably ever get with that is 3d audio.

Now, its unrealistic for the blind at least to go out to buy headsets for this, andriea aparently have 3d recording phones which you can get from amazon and are about on coolblind tech goodiebag somewhere but I havn't experimented that much with this though when it was the rage, I spent the 40 us and brought a set.

To be honest, as long as I am in front of my system and not going anywhere I have a studio set of senheiser hd201s lieing about and also a lighter set I pulled out of a dead friend's hord of junk that while its slightly broken will still suit my needs.

I havn't needed to switch to anything really bad till last week when I went through an upgrade of bits of the house and still ahve a few things to go, however thats for later on and who knows.

3d sound is where its at though and we seem to have got better in this reguard.

I think the closest to the moving image is a sound source you track accross the screen from left to right.

I don't think you could have it do much else.

Certainly I guess you could have it move about, but to what end?

Gaming I could see, but I have had sound move about, and if you could adjust it so it was that sound that moved then fine.

What usually happens is that all sound moves about.

Speech can also move about.

For human speech and speech with effects I can see that especially with the highquality synths a possibility, but I have cards that move speech about and add effects to it, and there comes a time where it just doesn't work.

Worse still you try to take espeak or eloquence which are basically generated synth speech, unless you have normal non enhanced sound, no filters or anything they just don't work that well, certainly they don't curve, move about or anything, not on their own.

Even high quality surround doesn't work with any speech or sound if its not designed for 3d.

When I tried to run my soundcard without the headphone switch drivers I found that what would happen is eventually if you threw enough at it, say a loud plane engine, it would hit its limiters.

Then all sounds including speech would curve about including the engine as it tried to get the sound in the right spot.

All sounds would be left heavy including speech and it would suck.

If I pulled the drivers, went microsoft and ran the card dry, at 10% I'd get nothing, at 20, it would be loud but speech wouldn't, at 30 it would be quite loud and at 50 it would distort.

If I pushed it to full, well I never did.

I have had friends do this and bang  go the speakers, and then your computer is on fire or you blow your ear drums.

So its just a limit we have to take these days.

Now, if we are talking about sound files that don't need to be live even if its speech, especially if its coded, then as long as you have the right set and limiters are set right on your eq you probably can pan and rotate to your hearts content and it won't matter where it is at all.

But converting straight sound live unless you have really good gear just doesn't work.

Now during my testing of various gear I have had to wear a 3d audio vr headset and a few other gismos while doing government testing of various things.

I even asked the project leader how much it would be for me to invest in civilian versions of the set I was using.

And its 500 bucks us just for the set.

So I'd have to spend 500 bucks for the set maybe more to get it here, well in the end I found out I could get it local but not straight forward.

But thats far to much for a set especially the way I'd use it.

Now don't get me wrong, it was a really good set to use but to use even a non test version on my workstation its a chunck of cash.

On 15/02/2019 9:55 AM, Chris Shook wrote:
Shaun,
Thanks for this post. It was very informative.
Like I said in an earlier post, I just know that JAWS has the capability. I don't know why.
If you could somehow create moving images with the screen reader I could see a reason, but that's a totally different, and unrealistic idea.
Chris



Re: ie unsafe dolphin users

Kevin Cussick
 

I used to have Hal, but really not to bash but Nvda does all I need and more.

On 13/02/2019 23:21, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Wow how interesting. I do have a tutorial where someone was demonstrating
how to use the amazon site with the Hal screen reader as well as Jaws and
Window-eyes.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard
Bartholomew
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] ie unsafe dolphin users
Just for info even though non-NVDA related.Dolphin were founded in the
mid-80's to further the development of the HAL screenreader primarily - the
forerunner of Supernova. HAL was very popular in those early days when
there were very few packages around but it started to lose influence once
the likes of Vocal-Eyes and JAWS for DOS gained market share. When
Supernova eventually came along, although it was very good at what it did
with certain software, it did not have the flexibility of other packages.
Cheers
Richard Bartholomew
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: 13 February 2019 23:11
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] ie unsafe dolphin users
Hi, Brad,
For years now I thought Dolphin was a screen reader. Thanks for the
correction.
Rosemarie
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 3:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] ie unsafe dolphin users
Dolphin is not a screen reader, rather it is a company in the U.K. that
markets several access technology software products. Their primary product
is the SuperNova Access Suite, which includes a screen reader and screen
magnification product.
Dolphin is pretty big in Europe, but not so widely used in the United
States, though they have been around for a while.
- Brad -
On Feb 13, 2019, at 17:04, Michael Munn <michaelrbms@gmail.com
<mailto:michaelrbms@gmail.com> > wrote:
This piece of screen reading package is common in European countries.
they're located in England.
Michael Munn
Member: Virginia Association of Blind students
National Federation of the Blind of Virginia www.nfbv.org
<http://www.nfbv.org/>
Member: Maryland Association of Blind Students
National Federation of the Blind of Maryland www.nfbmd.org
<http://www.nfbmd.org/>
Students of: Hadley Institute of the Blind
www.hadley.edu <http://www.hadley.edu/>
On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:45 AM molly the blind tech lover
<brainardmolly@gmail.com <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com> > wrote:
I've never heard of dolphin before lol.
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] ie unsafe dolphin users
Dolpin is a screen reader. If your ranking screen readers it is usually
ranked as third.
I don't know mch about it besides it's supposedly not as good as job and
that it is commercial so you have to buy it.


Re: Problems With NVDA

Richard Wells
 

Travis: Just to be clear, virtual swap files do prevent Windows/Android from becoming unstable when resources get low. When it comes to actual physical ram, more is better. When it's not available, virtual swap files are better then nothing. I believe we're on the same page here.

On 2/14/2019 3:01 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
Right, and this is called virtual memory, it's not ram, and it doesn't matter how many times you call it ram, it *isn't* ram. Virtual memory  via swap space or similar has been around since windows 3.x, and even the earliest versions of linux (even before 1.0 versions) had swap partitions.  That still doesn't make them ram, only virtual memory, which isn't used for active programs, swap space is only used when a piece of data (whether it's a program or a chunk of data) hasn't been accessed in a while, and something that has been accessed more recently needs the ram to work properly, then that older piece is swapped out to the virtual memory/swap file.  That doesn't qualify as ram, because of several factors, the least of which is that that code is no longer executing in the ram.  Therefore, you can add as much virtual space as you want, but that doesn't have any affect on the amount of ram you have in your pc that is available for actually running programs.

On 2/14/2019 3:41 PM, Richard Wells wrote:
Android and Windows do provide means to boost physical ram. This is not storage, it is basically a virtual swap file except on solid state media.

On 2/14/2019 11:46 AM, Travis Siegel wrote:
It doesn't matter what os you're talking about, sd cards do not provide ram.  Ram is the space where actively executing programs live.  This only happens in RAM. Sd cards provide storage, this is where saved programs, data for applications, and other downlaoded content such as music files reside.  Too often these days, memory is used interchangeably with storage, and that
is missleading at best, and downright dangerous at worst when someone thinks they have more memory than they do, and run a program thinking it will work because they have so much memory, only to find out that the device crashes because it's overtaxed and the memory is full.  Don't make the mistake of confusing memory with storage, they're completely separate items, and the computer industry isn't doing anybody any favors by referring to both as if they were the same thing.

 On Thu, 14 Feb 2019, Brian K. Lingard wrote:

Dear Ibrahim Ajayi && List:
Some Android telephones can increase their working RAM with an SD card, however, if your computer is a laptop, the SD card will normally only provide storage for files, not increase the working RAM.

To upgrade the RAM,, you need to first check with the laptop maker as to the maximum RAM it Can address. Then review your RAM chips, often in a compartment under the laptop. If all slots are full, you need to replace the presently installed RAM with larger RAM chips. You unclip the present Rams, set them aside, and plug in the new RAM. Upon power-up,, the PC will be using the new RAM which should make programs run a bit faster ESPECIALLY IF several are running at once or you are editing huge files, such as audio recordings.
I trust this explains the difference between what an SD card and RAM chips will do to the laptop.
Brian K. Lingard VE3YI, Ab2JI, B. A., C. T. M.





Re: is there a way to label unlabeled buttons using NVDA?

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Best bet is to try it out.


make sure you turn on mouse tracking first so you can hear what it reads under the mouse so you know when you have moved the mouse to that area then if it lets you label it give it a name then save it if there are a couple of places you do it after you have labeled them then if you want to bring up the list then move to to the one you want then i think you press enter or tab to ok then it will move the mouse to that area and say what it is.


I am also sure the directions are the right way around now to make a label then save it.



I think also it is screen size dependent so basically your screen size has to stay the same other wise if changed it may not be in the same place?


let us know if it does the job? it done it for the things i wanted to do it on for my scanner software that was not labeled until I did with the golden cursor.


You never know it might do the job or some one could look at the code and modify it to become a graphic labeler to.



Gene nz


On 15/02/2019 9:45 AM, AKH AKH wrote:

Hi Gene


I wonder if I could use the golden Cursor you mention to get me to a timeline in a video editing app on windows 10?


Andrew


On 14/02/2019 20:06, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi



No there is not at present.

A few years back I was sure some one made one but was not in a add on format and after time it disappeared. this was before the time of the add on page now.


May be the nearest one would be the golden cursor.


That add on lets you drive the mouse with your arrow keys with 2 others. But there is a thing in it called hot points I think it is called.


If i remember right you move the mouse to the area that is not labled do a new label then save it. It will then say the name of what ever it is.


But you say for a example in my old scanner program I could not tab to any of those buttons that would do certain things with the scanner. I would bring up the list of say that were labeled in that scanner program pick one of them and then it would route the mouse to that area and then i would activate it for it say to scan etc depending what it done.


But at that time you need a sighted person to do that.


It would do it for that program but you could do it for others


Not sure if it would let you do that in your game?


I know on my android phone it will let me llabel stuff but i am swiping not tabbing to those areas like in windows.


Give it a whirl it might do the job for you.


I know there is a ticket so it can label stuff but do not think i have seen any one touch it lately.


Gene nz


On 15/02/2019 4:21 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, molly here again.

Is there a way to label unlabeled buttons with NVDA? I downloaded an app and when I swipe using the touchscreen or navigate with the keyboard NVDA just says button, button.the app is a collection of text adventure games.  and while the game’s are accessible, the titles of the games in the games library  aren’t labeled.

Any help will be greatly appreciated 😊

Thanks.

 

Molly

--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Virus-free. www.avg.com
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hi Andrew,
I'll provide a more detailed answer (hopefully with some real-life examples) on a separate thread, but to give you an answer for a question I know you've been having for the last two weeks:
Short answer: this may sound a bit harsh, but I'm against the idea of paying someone to write an add-on if that person is not a reputable narrative authority on NVDA. Trust me, I've seen folks trying to go through that route with mixed success - not knowing where to look for info, trying to solve one thing and then answering another question, and so on. Part of this has to do with inadequate NVDA development documentation, but my experiences as a Windows Insider (working with Microsoft and other app vendors) suggests deeper cultural issues are at play.
Although I wish to help you resolve the issues you are having with video editing software, I can't forget my current job and health - I am a college student, a competitive forensics (speech and debate) student, and weighing my options for activities for the next few months. Although some folks here may think I'm an NV Access staff member due to the kind of posts I write, I am not an NV Access employee, let alone live in Australia (suffice to say that I live quite close to where this year's CSUN conference will be held next month).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of AKH AKH
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 12:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Hi Joseph


I've been trying to recruit an NVDA developer, but even this list hasn't got me anywhere. Any other suggestions. Perhaps I should pay a friend who has never used NVDA to learn to develop and make me an add on?


Andrew


On 14/02/2019 18:02, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi everyone,
I hope the following post clarifies a few things discussed on this thread:
* Screen readers and mouse: although both act almost the same, JAWS
and NVDA uses different techniques to let you see what's under the
mouse, and for that matter, accessing certain screen elements. Until
recently NVDA had a slight advantage in mouse navigation and
announcing what's under the screen (including announcing coordinates
with beeps), but JAWS caught up with NVDA since 2018. Announcing
what's under the mouse has improved slightly in recent versions of NVDA.
* Visualized cursor tracking: yes, both JAWS and NVDA can do this -
built into JAWS since 2018 thanks to ideas from ZoomText, requires an
add-on for NVDA, although there is a research project to integrate
this and other vision related features into NVDA.
* Feature comparisons versus bashing: to me, it depends on wording and
how the reader understood a poster's intent. Although there were
initial misunderstandings, I view Steve's post to be a genuine attempt
at feature comparisons.
* Biased or unbiased: again it depends on how one views messages. In
this case, to be clear, I think Brian V's post should be considered an
answer to the question posed (cursor tracking) from another
perspective, or rather, a visual confirmation of what some people are
saying (yes, this also means this could be considered a biased
opinion, but to me, I consider it an informative answer).
* JAWS cursor versus Golden Cursor: the intention behind JAWS cursor
is to let you interact with screen elements as though you are moving a
mouse, similar in concept to how screen review works in certain
situations (when you need to review certain areas that you can't
easily with keyboard commands). The closest equivalent after screen
review in NVDA world is Golden Cursor add-on (under maintenance at the
moment), and that add-on does
physically6 (in terms of screen coordinates) moves the mouse pointer.

Overall feelings (not just this topic, but more recent ones as well):
* Level of familiarity: I think we should remember that not everyone
is an NVDA expert or a novice user.
* Source statement verification: whenever you come across a statement,
I think it'd be best to verify who said it and when so we won't get
thrown into confusion over misinformation. For example, when we talk
about feature comparisons, clarifying which version of one screen
reader one is comparing against may help folks pinpoint specifics
without hunting for more accurate statements, as we've seen from time
to time (I myself have fallen to that trap before, and I tend to take
source verification seriously since I am a member of this forum (a
former moderator, in fact) and is an owner of multiple lists).
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 6:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

No, this is not true. Either can be used well with the mouse, and
you've taken what I'm saying out of context.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris
Shook
Sent: 13 February 2019 17:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Someone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, but NVDA is designed
so that a low vision user can use the mouse.
JAWS, on the other hand, is strictly for someone that is totally blind.
Therefore, it would be less likely to be able to navigate by the mouse.











Re: Some mouse navigation questions

 

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 03:52 PM, AKH AKH wrote:
develop and make me an add on?
For what, if I may ask?

I can't find another post by you on this particular topic nor anything else really recent.

This comment seems to have come out of nowhere.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA and spreadsheets

Chris Shook
 

Mike,
That fixed it. Somehow that item had gotten unchecked.
Thanks for the help.
Chris


Re: is there a way to label unlabeled buttons using NVDA?

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


I am thinking of this i was just hunting through my emails to find it.


If the link does not work in the email to the form let me know or you may be able to copy and paste it.


Given some recent discussions here, I thought it couldn't hurt to repost this.  This survey is from NVAccess and it uses Google Forms:


Hi all,


NV Access would like to work with the community to identify the most
important bugs and feature requests for NVDA. With over 2000 open issues on
Github, it can be difficult for us to understand which issues are the most
hard hitting for the greatest amount of people.


By filling in this short survey, you can help us better prioritize our
future work.

Survey link:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScXTe1_l52wVsDdvJNpAQ7qiU7A141BaugI
8XuVxKz0A1TFNQ/viewform?usp=sf_link


As always, we make no promise that creating an issue or filling in this
survey will mean that your particular issues are addressed in a timely
manner, however we will look very carefully at this data, and prioritize our
work to ensure we provide positive impact to the greatest number of users.


Your answers will be annonymous. No identifying information will be asked
for in this survey.  However, by filling in this survey you are agreeing
that NV Access may make this data public for all to see.


Thank you for your help in improving NVDA.


Mick


if you do not mention any thing say like the one for the graphic labeler it may not come up the ladder to be worked on.




Gene nz


On 15/02/2019 9:37 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Thanks 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] is there a way to label unlabeled buttons using NVDA?

 

Hi

 

 

No there is not at present.

A few years back I was sure some one made one but was not in a add on format and after time it disappeared. this was before the time of the add on page now.

 

May be the nearest one would be the golden cursor.

 

That add on lets you drive the mouse with your arrow keys with 2 others. But there is a thing in it called hot points I think it is called.

 

If i remember right you move the mouse to the area that is not labled do a new label then save it. It will then say the name of what ever it is.

 

But you say for a example in my old scanner program I could not tab to any of those buttons that would do certain things with the scanner. I would bring up the list of say that were labeled in that scanner program pick one of them and then it would route the mouse to that area and then i would activate it for it say to scan etc depending what it done.

 

But at that time you need a sighted person to do that.

 

It would do it for that program but you could do it for others

 

Not sure if it would let you do that in your game?

 

I know on my android phone it will let me llabel stuff but i am swiping not tabbing to those areas like in windows.

 

Give it a whirl it might do the job for you.

 

I know there is a ticket so it can label stuff but do not think i have seen any one touch it lately.

 

Gene nz

 

On 15/02/2019 4:21 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hey guys, molly here again.

Is there a way to label unlabeled buttons with NVDA? I downloaded an app and when I swipe using the touchscreen or navigate with the keyboard NVDA just says button, button.the app is a collection of text adventure games.  and while the game’s are accessible, the titles of the games in the games library  aren’t labeled.

Any help will be greatly appreciated 😊

Thanks.

 

Molly

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
 
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which location (or locations) are nearest to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa).
To find out which software is installed on the APNK network please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software To find out how to use NVDA on APNK computers please visit the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/nvda
 

To find out which software is available on the Christchurch City Library network, and how to start the NVDA screen reader, please go to the following links. Software available  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faq/computers/#faq_5884  How to start the NVDA screen reader on Christchurch City Library computers  https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/faqs/what-screen-reader-software-is-available/
 
To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Problems With NVDA

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Right, and this is called virtual memory, it's not ram, and it doesn't matter how many times you call it ram, it *isn't* ram. Virtual memory  via swap space or similar has been around since windows 3.x, and even the earliest versions of linux (even before 1.0 versions) had swap partitions.  That still doesn't make them ram, only virtual memory, which isn't used for active programs, swap space is only used when a piece of data (whether it's a program or a chunk of data) hasn't been accessed in a while, and something that has been accessed more recently needs the ram to work properly, then that older piece is swapped out to the virtual memory/swap file.  That doesn't qualify as ram, because of several factors, the least of which is that that code is no longer executing in the ram.  Therefore, you can add as much virtual space as you want, but that doesn't have any affect on the amount of ram you have in your pc that is available for actually running programs.

On 2/14/2019 3:41 PM, Richard Wells wrote:
Android and Windows do provide means to boost physical ram. This is not storage, it is basically a virtual swap file except on solid state media.

On 2/14/2019 11:46 AM, Travis Siegel wrote:
It doesn't matter what os you're talking about, sd cards do not provide ram.  Ram is the space where actively executing programs live.  This only happens in RAM.  Sd cards provide storage, this is where saved programs, data for applications, and other downlaoded content such as music files reside.  Too often these days, memory is used interchangeably with storage, and that
is missleading at best, and downright dangerous at worst when someone thinks they have more memory than they do, and run a program thinking it will work because they have so much memory, only to find out that the device crashes because it's overtaxed and the memory is full.  Don't make the mistake of confusing memory with storage, they're completely separate items, and the computer industry isn't doing anybody any favors by referring to both as if they were the same thing.

 On Thu, 14 Feb 2019, Brian K. Lingard wrote:

Dear Ibrahim Ajayi && List:
Some Android telephones can increase their working RAM with an SD card, however, if your computer is a laptop, the SD card will normally only provide storage for files, not increase the working RAM.

To upgrade the RAM,, you need to first check with the laptop maker as to the maximum RAM it Can address. Then review your RAM chips, often in a compartment under the laptop. If all slots are full, you need to replace the presently installed RAM with larger RAM chips. You unclip the present Rams, set them aside, and plug in the new RAM. Upon power-up,, the PC will be using the new RAM which should make programs run a bit faster ESPECIALLY IF several are running at once or you are editing huge files, such as audio recordings.
I trust this explains the difference between what an SD card and RAM chips will do to the laptop.
Brian K. Lingard VE3YI, Ab2JI, B. A., C. T. M.