Date   

Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

Just in case anyone is googling it Jean, it’s Fast Start, not Quick Boot.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 February 2019 19:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

How often do you boot or reboot?  I've seen this problem before and I don't think I ever saw a solution.  But you can almost completely eliminate the problem by not rebooting often or not shutting down the machine and booting often.  I believe you have Windows 10 and I don't know what happens if you use quick boot.  But you can use sleep or stand by and only do a full reboot perhaps once every three or four days or perhaps as little as a five or seven day week apart, maybe more.  You would have to experiment.  How long can you run Windows without it becoming unstable? 

 

If you don't know about these options, I'll find a web site that describes them.  But really, the quick boot feature in Windows 10 isn't a benefit if you know about sleep or hibernate.  I argue that if people generally knew about those options, quick boot would never have been implemented since it is, in essence, a way to solve a problem caused by users not knowing about other options, long available.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 1:04 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

I have no idea either. My machine works fine otherwise. I’ll reinstall Jaws and see if it fixes things.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 11:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

Don’t know, I’m not seeing that here.  On my SSD on my desktop, JAWS takes about 15 seconds from boot.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: 09 February 2019 10:08
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

I’ve noticed something about Jaws lately. When I turn it on it takes like a minute to load. I’ve also been getting a lot of error reports lately. What’s up with that?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

To be honest, jaws is a screen reader.

Nvda is what narator should have been a basic screen reader with extra features.

Narator is well, people call it a screen reader.

Thats true if its an ms app, but it doesn't do everything, even nvda does more than that.

But this poster is right, narator carries such a stigma with it that when it finally gets good, its name carries a crappy past.

I would rely on narator for some stuff but its more limited than nvda.

The only reason nvda is better than jaws and others in most respects is because it uses the os for most of its access and not some interseptor.

I am unsure why the rest don't inovate but neither jaws or dolphin seem to be moving fast, or in the case of jaws like microsoft seem to be trying to reinvent themselves all the time with stuff that makes you shake your head.

For nvda what I can see as advantage is mainly the speed of development, and the fact if say I want a feature, I put it out there and see.

Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not, and if a user wants to experiment they can go here is this thing, does it work or is it crap.

And then its a hit, no strings.

Look at toolbars explorer.

I remember when it was an idea.

It caught on so quick.

Firstly it was an idea.

By the end of the day an item, 2 days, something that could be something.

A week later it was something, and a month or so later its a really good thing that is making a mark.

There is no high pricetag to get that extra module for no reason or extra licence to access another windows addition without any new features.

There is no lagging behind with things.

Everyone has advantages for and against but still.

 

 

On 9/02/2019 6:29 PM, Kwork wrote:

Narrator in Windows 7 was a joke. Not even worth talking about in my opinion. It could read its own introduction screen and not much more. LOL! Microsoft Anna was a decent enough text to speech voice, but she worked better in NVDA as a SAPI 5 voice rather than windows' joke of a screenreader they called Narrator.

Brian V is correct. The name of the Windows native screenreader should probably be changed. Otherwise we'll be educating people for years who remember the joke that first debuted, to the best of my knowledge, in Windows xp.

Travis

On 2/8/2019 1:42 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

I’m assuming Narrator in windows 7 was in the settings app? I don’t think my machine even had a settings app.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of bob jutzi
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 3:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

Yes.  Windows 7 had Narrator.

 

On 2/8/2019 3:29 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 03:06 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Do you guys know if Windows 7 had Narrator? I had a windows 7 machine but I can’t recall if it had Narrator.

There's been a version of Narrator around for a very long time.  Prior to Windows 10 it really was a joke.

Microsoft started taking accessibility much more seriously starting with Windows 8, with lots of refining occurring after that (and still ongoing).  Even Narrator in Windows 10 prior to Version 1809 is not the same animal as Narrator now (with now being Version 1809).

Hence my reaction earlier about talking about things that have the same name, under different versions of Windows, being senseless.  Even talking pre-1809 and post-1809 Narrator in Windows 10 is, if not apples and oranges, is kumquats and oranges.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

I believe that's 1 and 7 on the numpad to go prev or next review mode.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jed Barton
Sent: 09 February 2019 18:53
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

how do you go between object and screen navigation?

On 2/9/19, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
The equivalent to the JAWS cursor is screen review mode. There is
also object navigation which, according to what I've heard and read is
equivalent to the touch cursor in NVDA. To read about screen review,
you can look at the user guide

You can look at the user guide for information about object navigation
but you would probably be better off using a tutorial. I'll let list
members discuss which tutorial they like that deals with the subject.

You can click the mouse once you move to something using object
navigation or screen review mode. Use the command NVDA key slash, the
mouse left click key in JAWS and NVDA. That moves the mouse to your
current position in object navigation or screen review, whichever you
are using. Then press slash again, which iss left click, as I said.

I can tell you where to look in the user manual but if you want me to,
ask and I'll do so in another message. I'd have to look it up.

Also, if you don't know them, you need to know screen review keys such
as numpad 8 read current line in review, numpad 7, move to and read
previous line. and the rest.

Also, remember to always go back to object navigation after using
screen review. Certain things won't work as they should if you don't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions


Hey guys,
so i guess what i'm trying to figure out here, ya know in jaws we have
the PC and jaws cursor. Does such an animal exist in NVDA? Obviously
there are some things we can access in jaws with the PC cursor, and
some things with the jaws cursor. Then we have the ability to route
from 1 to the other. Can we do the same thing in NVDA?

On 2/9/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:


Unfortunately, I know of no way of efficiently navigating with the
mouse in NVDA, using the keyboard. If there is, again, I'd love to hear it.
Please expand on what you are using in JAWS. One of the things I think
is
(or at least was) better in NVDA was how it worked in conjunction
with the mouse.

I'm trying to figure out what it is you're using that NVDA lacks,
whether in native form or by installing any of several different
add-ons.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back








Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jean,

 

What I find about screen review mode is that it seems to be restricted to the current window.  Is there any way of unrestricting it?

 

It also doesn’t see everything on screen, probably because of the lack of video hooks, but it certainly isn’t as good as JAWS for screen review.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 February 2019 18:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

The equivalent to the JAWS cursor is screen review mode.  There is also object navigation which, according to what I've heard and read is equivalent to the touch cursor in NVDA.  To read about screen review, you can look at the user guide

 

You can look at the user guide for information about object navigation but you would probably be better off using a tutorial.  I'll let list members discuss which tutorial they like that deals with the subject. 

 

You can click the mouse once you move to something using object navigation or screen review mode.  Use the command NVDA key slash, the mouse left click key in JAWS and NVDA.  That moves the mouse to your current position in object navigation or screen review, whichever you are using.  Then press slash again, which iss left click, as I said.

 

I can tell you where to look in the user manual but if you want me to, ask and I'll do so in another message.  I'd have to look it up. 

 

Also, if you don't know them, you need to know screen review keys such as numpad 8 read current line in review, numpad 7, move to and read previous line. and the rest.

 

Also, remember to always go back to object navigation after using screen review.  Certain things won't work as they should if you don't.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jed Barton

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

 

Hey guys,
so i guess what i'm trying to figure out here, ya know in jaws we have
the PC and jaws cursor.  Does such an animal exist in NVDA?  Obviously
there are some things we can access in jaws with the PC cursor, and
some things with the jaws cursor.  Then we have the ability to route
from 1 to the other.  Can we do the same thing in NVDA?

On 2/9/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>
>>
>> Unfortunately, I know of no way of efficiently navigating with the mouse
>> in NVDA, using the keyboard. If there is, again, I'd love to hear it.
>
> Please expand on what you are using in JAWS.   One of the things I think is
> (or at least was) better in NVDA was how it worked in conjunction with the
> mouse.
>
> I'm trying to figure out what it is you're using that NVDA lacks, whether in
> native form or by installing any of several different add-ons.
>
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
> illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


Re: Clock

 

thanks 

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 8:18 PM ( NAJAF . Naqvi ) via Groups.Io <najafnaqvi471=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
hi 
next version of nvda date ???...
please respond 

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:33 AM Curtis Delzer <curtis@...> wrote:
what "clock," or is that a special app add-on for nvda?
-----
Curtis Delzer, HS.
WB6HEF
San Bernardino, CA





Re: Clock

 

hi 
next version of nvda date ???...
please respond 

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:33 AM Curtis Delzer <curtis@...> wrote:
what "clock," or is that a special app add-on for nvda?
-----
Curtis Delzer, HS.
WB6HEF
San Bernardino, CA





Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

molly the blind tech lover
 

I think they're different from OneCore voice.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 9:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

i dont mean one core voice and i dont know about its technology.
i wish to know which sapi5 voices windows 8 and 10 have by default?
are they the same as one core voice?
i heard that sapi5 and one core install only three voices by default.
how can i test at least sapi5 version of them?
thanks for your help.


On 2/9/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 01:57 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:


Well first I think you have to install a language pack. But Windows
xp is really old and I think these voice are only for Windows 10.
As has already been said, OneCore voices will absolutely not function under
Windows XP. They (and the technology they use) did not come into use until
a long while after Windows XP had been out of support and completely
abandoned.

Virtually anything even "newish" is not going to work under Windows
XP, and was never intended or designed to do so. It's like trying to
run a GUI web browser under DOS - it just isn't gonna happen.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back




--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

i dont mean one core voice and i dont know about its technology.
i wish to know which sapi5 voices windows 8 and 10 have by default?
are they the same as one core voice?
i heard that sapi5 and one core install only three voices by default.
how can i test at least sapi5 version of them?
thanks for your help.

On 2/9/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 01:57 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:


Well first I think you have to install a language pack. But Windows xp is
really old and I think these voice are only for Windows 10.
As has already been said, OneCore voices will absolutely not function under
Windows XP. They (and the technology they use) did not come into use until
a long while after Windows XP had been out of support and completely
abandoned.

Virtually anything even "newish" is not going to work under Windows XP, and
was never intended or designed to do so. It's like trying to run a GUI web
browser under DOS - it just isn't gonna happen.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Gene
 

You can make searching very complicated but it is usually unnecessary.  Its good to know about quotes and using plus or minus if you want to limit a search at times but for most searches, this is unnecessary. 
 
Search engines are consumer products.  They want to make searches effective for those who know nothing about searching using such variables.  If I want to search for something, I usually get good results just by searching for what I want to find, no alterations, no signs added.  For example, if I want to search for information about the book Oliver Twist, if I simply type Oliver twist and if I want to find articles dealing with literary critism, I may type critique or criticism or critic, I'd have to experiment because (I haven't searched for that description so often that I'm sure what might get the best results, I can find all sorts of information.  If I want more general information, I might type Oliver Twist Wikipedia.  Or Oliver Twist Britanica.  Or even just Oliver Twist and nothing else would probably provide a variety of results.
 
If I want to find a song on Youtube, I just type the name of the song followed by Youtube.  I seldom have to do anything else. 
 
Many people are needlessly intimidated by searching.  Keep in mind that we are in a completely different era than in the early days of the Internet.  We are dealing with a consumer product and that as such, it is designed to guess about what people are searching for who know nothing about anything except the most elementary way to search.  That's how consumer products are.  If they can be simplified over time, they will be. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Well there are books in searching, but you can control your search engine.

putting quotes round the items to search will search spacifically for that item online and nothing else.

You can add plus or minus simbles to search for extra items or not search for items.

Wildcards like * can be used, now there are various books on the net search thing, I forget where they can be gotten.

Your local blind organisation may have courses to teach people how to use computers that are blind.

And sone of those could deal with the net, and searching.

Some universities and other places may have them to and these can be usually free or low cost so I would recomend doing one of those if you want that is.

Search engines can be and have been quite smart for an age now, but they can get something wrong from time to time.

There have been a few massive foulups by google and others.



On 10/02/2019 2:02 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:46 PM, MAX wrote:
I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 
Some of my dearest friends are over 70 and 80, so the age thing carries no weight with me.

You have, however, hit upon a really valuable piece of information, that deserves reinforcement:  It most often works better to do a web search, using either reasonable keywords or an actual natural question, to get information on specific programs and features.  There are tons of people who've "been where you are now" no matter the you or the where, and a great many have generated tutorials or just descriptions of what they did that will generally be far more helpful than quite a few formal help systems are.

Not that one shouldn't avail oneself of a given program's help, too, but I generally go there second because finding things can be challenging - often times unnecessarily so.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: developing

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I'm not sure if it is still the case, but there used to be, in the list of issues, some kind of grading system, which was like ideal for a new coder etc, but I myself don't know if it still exists. I think at the moment its probably harder for new people to come on board as so much is being changed for the Python 3 switch over.


Might be an idea to just try some simple add ons first as that list is very helpful on style of coding and what is and what nis not acceptable generally.
I'm no coder myself but there is a lot of other code modules in NVDA written in C and compiled.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "lali" <l2belteki@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 4:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] developing


Dear all!


I have read developer guide, cloned github nvda, what could I help to start coding NVDA? I know python3, and can a bit python2.

Lali


--
everything: l2belteki@gmail.com


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Well there are books in searching, but you can control your search engine.

putting quotes round the items to search will search spacifically for that item online and nothing else.

You can add plus or minus simbles to search for extra items or not search for items.

Wildcards like * can be used, now there are various books on the net search thing, I forget where they can be gotten.

Your local blind organisation may have courses to teach people how to use computers that are blind.

And sone of those could deal with the net, and searching.

Some universities and other places may have them to and these can be usually free or low cost so I would recomend doing one of those if you want that is.

Search engines can be and have been quite smart for an age now, but they can get something wrong from time to time.

There have been a few massive foulups by google and others.



On 10/02/2019 2:02 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:46 PM, MAX wrote:
I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 
Some of my dearest friends are over 70 and 80, so the age thing carries no weight with me.

You have, however, hit upon a really valuable piece of information, that deserves reinforcement:  It most often works better to do a web search, using either reasonable keywords or an actual natural question, to get information on specific programs and features.  There are tons of people who've "been where you are now" no matter the you or the where, and a great many have generated tutorials or just descriptions of what they did that will generally be far more helpful than quite a few formal help systems are.

Not that one shouldn't avail oneself of a given program's help, too, but I generally go there second because finding things can be challenging - often times unnecessarily so.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

JM Casey
 

I was wondering that too, because the menu's name is "bookmarks" -- as in it should actually say that -- it's not a symbol or series of symbols, just a word.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: February 9, 2019 5:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

When you use the alt key are you getting the menus?
Have you tried toggling the F11 key?
-LM
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2/9/19, MAX <max@maxsmusicplace.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Saturday, February 9, 2019, 1:58 PM

#yiv3394914628
#yiv3394914628 --

_filtered #yiv3394914628 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv3394914628 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv3394914628 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11
6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
#yiv3394914628
#yiv3394914628 p.yiv3394914628MsoNormal, #yiv3394914628 li.yiv3394914628MsoNormal, #yiv3394914628 div.yiv3394914628MsoNormal
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New
serif;}
#yiv3394914628 a:link, #yiv3394914628
span.yiv3394914628MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv3394914628 a:visited, #yiv3394914628 span.yiv3394914628MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv3394914628 p
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New
serif;}
#yiv3394914628 p.yiv3394914628msonormal0, #yiv3394914628 li.yiv3394914628msonormal0, #yiv3394914628
div.yiv3394914628msonormal0
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New
serif;}
#yiv3394914628 span.yiv3394914628EmailStyle18
{font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}
#yiv3394914628 span.yiv3394914628EmailStyle19
{font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}
#yiv3394914628 span.yiv3394914628EmailStyle20
{font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}
#yiv3394914628 span.yiv3394914628EmailStyle22
{font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}
#yiv3394914628 .yiv3394914628MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt;}
_filtered #yiv3394914628 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
#yiv3394914628 div.yiv3394914628WordSection1
{}
#yiv3394914628 OK. Here is a list of everything I see in the fire fox open menu. Sine into synk. Content blocking standard. New window. New private window. Restore previous session. Zoom 100% Edit. Library Add-ons. Options. Customize. Open file. Save page as. Print. Find in this page. More. Web developer. Help. Exit exit fire fox. I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks. Find in this page seems to be on the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the current page as you might expect. 73 (Regards). Max K 4 O D S. I've Never Lost the Wonder. Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/ From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
Not only is it not an “easter
egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
I'm sorry you misinterpreted
my comment. I'm saying that you assumed you couldn't manage book marks. Instead of assuming, if you ask here or use some sort of documentation or instructional material, you will save yourself time and trouble, perhaps a lot. I'm speaking in general, concerning programs and Windows. It isn't an easter egg. There is nothing hidden about this. It is common to have context menus in various structures of a program. I don't know how sighted people learn this. I learned it because, whenever I want to see how to do something more easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a list or a menu, I look through the context menu.
Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46
AMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
Hi
Gene.
You have been mostly helpful to me
in the past so I’ll be civil to you. If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding.
I
have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free. It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement. Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter. I can see icons and the contents of menus. If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader. Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between. I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite. I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature. I have it turned on and use it all the time. The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud. I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones. Sorry for the digression.
Now to the current problem. I
have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B. How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg? Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks. Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders. A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.
You wrote of a search bookmarks
feature. I haven’t visually seen that one in the menu either. How does it work?

73
(Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
What do you mean by the management
is almost nonexistent? You can move bookmarks around in Firefox. I assume you can in Chrome as well. Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble. Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.Move to a bookmark in Firefox. Open the context menu. Down arrow to cut. Press enter.Then move to where you want the bookmark to be. Open the context menu and find paste. Press enter.The bookmark has been moved.However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature. If you are interested, I'll describe it. Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01
PMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
The management of favorites in
chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent. I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file. Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

73 (Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
You may not find ways that work as
well to use those sites. You may continue using Internet Explorer with them. It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site.
Gene----- Original Message
-----From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday,
February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at
all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Article that came out today in
The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
> Stop using Internet
Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security > chief ( > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
>
explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that
the shelf life of IE is now
> expired,
nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10
Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 > > *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the > need for illusion is deep.* > > ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back > > > >


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:46 PM, MAX wrote:
I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 
Some of my dearest friends are over 70 and 80, so the age thing carries no weight with me.

You have, however, hit upon a really valuable piece of information, that deserves reinforcement:  It most often works better to do a web search, using either reasonable keywords or an actual natural question, to get information on specific programs and features.  There are tons of people who've "been where you are now" no matter the you or the where, and a great many have generated tutorials or just descriptions of what they did that will generally be far more helpful than quite a few formal help systems are.

Not that one shouldn't avail oneself of a given program's help, too, but I generally go there second because finding things can be challenging - often times unnecessarily so.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

molly the blind tech lover
 

I just looked and apparently my computer has the sapi 5 voices. I’m not going to use them though.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

 

It's a OneCore voice here. I've never used SAPI5. I accidentally hit enter on it in the synth choices the other night and all it kept saying was, "Please register this product." Lord have mercy, I thought I was never going to get out of that! I actually had to use System Access to read me the NVDA menu so I could switch synthesizers. I was very close to asking you guys for help because I couldn't get anywhere! Nowhere! that was scary. And when I used Narrator and tried to switch synths, it said, "This is not a narrator command." The only thing I can think is that I used to have Office 365 on here and quit using it because all I was using it for was Outlook and Thunderbird is just as good and free, and that's how SAPI5 must've been available, though back then I never used NVDA. In any case, that was more than you wanted to know. I couldn't try SAPI5 if I wanted to, and I hope I never accidentally hit enter on that crazy synthe choice again because that was tough to get out of.

Annette

On 2/9/2019 2:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Annette Moore wrote:

OneCore Zira

I thought Zira was a SAPI5 voice?   If there's another version of her under OneCore I'd be curious to hear it.

I've been using Microsoft James, OneCore - the British accented male voice (or one of them, anyway).  I also liked David and Richard, though I think they both are SAPI5 voices.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: NVDA, JAWS, compared to Narrator

Annette Moore
 

It's a OneCore voice here. I've never used SAPI5. I accidentally hit enter on it in the synth choices the other night and all it kept saying was, "Please register this product." Lord have mercy, I thought I was never going to get out of that! I actually had to use System Access to read me the NVDA menu so I could switch synthesizers. I was very close to asking you guys for help because I couldn't get anywhere! Nowhere! that was scary. And when I used Narrator and tried to switch synths, it said, "This is not a narrator command." The only thing I can think is that I used to have Office 365 on here and quit using it because all I was using it for was Outlook and Thunderbird is just as good and free, and that's how SAPI5 must've been available, though back then I never used NVDA. In any case, that was more than you wanted to know. I couldn't try SAPI5 if I wanted to, and I hope I never accidentally hit enter on that crazy synthe choice again because that was tough to get out of.

Annette

On 2/9/2019 2:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 02:51 PM, Annette Moore wrote:
OneCore Zira
I thought Zira was a SAPI5 voice?   If there's another version of her under OneCore I'd be curious to hear it.

I've been using Microsoft James, OneCore - the British accented male voice (or one of them, anyway).  I also liked David and Richard, though I think they both are SAPI5 voices.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Gene
 

Also, a correction or addition needs to be made to an earlier message by another list member.  In the desktop keyboard layout, the way you move through the different modes is to hold numpad insert and while doing so, press numpad 7 to move forward through the selections and numpad 1 to move back. 
 
I don't know the laptop layout commands and those may be what were given.  But if you are using the desktop layout, the default, layout, the numpad commands I gave are for switching review modes.
 

Gene
----- Original message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

The equivalent to the JAWS cursor is screen review mode.  There is also object navigation which, according to what I've heard and read is equivalent to the touch cursor in NVDA.  To read about screen review, you can look at the user guide
 
You can look at the user guide for information about object navigation but you would probably be better off using a tutorial.  I'll let list members discuss which tutorial they like that deals with the subject. 
 
You can click the mouse once you move to something using object navigation or screen review mode.  Use the command NVDA key slash, the mouse left click key in JAWS and NVDA.  That moves the mouse to your current position in object navigation or screen review, whichever you are using.  Then press slash again, which iss left click, as I said.
 
I can tell you where to look in the user manual but if you want me to, ask and I'll do so in another message.  I'd have to look it up. 
 
Also, if you don't know them, you need to know screen review keys such as numpad 8 read current line in review, numpad 7, move to and read previous line. and the rest.
 
Also, remember to always go back to object navigation after using screen review.  Certain things won't work as they should if you don't.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Hey guys,
so i guess what i'm trying to figure out here, ya know in jaws we have
the PC and jaws cursor.  Does such an animal exist in NVDA?  Obviously
there are some things we can access in jaws with the PC cursor, and
some things with the jaws cursor.  Then we have the ability to route
from 1 to the other.  Can we do the same thing in NVDA?

On 2/9/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:54 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>
>>
>> Unfortunately, I know of no way of efficiently navigating with the mouse
>> in NVDA, using the keyboard. If there is, again, I'd love to hear it.
>
> Please expand on what you are using in JAWS.   One of the things I think is
> (or at least was) better in NVDA was how it worked in conjunction with the
> mouse.
>
> I'm trying to figure out what it is you're using that NVDA lacks, whether in
> native form or by installing any of several different add-ons.
>
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
> illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>



Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

MAX <max@...>
 

Thanks to help from you and others I have figured it out.  I’m not happy with the modern way of doing menus but I know they aren’t going to change it because of that.  The point is moot so let’s close out this branch of the Microsoft’s own etc. thread.   For my part I’m not going to answer any more messages in this thread.  Thank you to all who helped and tried to help.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 6:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I'm not sure what you are describing.  If you press alt and right arrow through the menu titles, you should find a book marks menu.  If you don't, I'm not sure why but perhaps maximizing the program would show it. 

 

Have you created any book marks with the word help as part of the title?  If you search for the word help, the list will show any bookmark with the letters help in it, whether those letters occur at the beginning, middle, or end, anywhere in the string of characters. 

 

It sounds to me as though you may be trying to search the help system instead of bookmarks but I can't tell just what you are doing.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:31 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

I called it up the way you told me.  Obviously the bookmarks aren’t secret but they must be called something else in the menu because there is nothing called bookmarks in the Firefox open menu.  I did find this time that if I down arrow through the list nvda does announce sub menu on items marked with a folder icon.  I tried to find out on my own how to search for something in the bookmarks.  I selected help and typed search in bookmarks.  The list of topics seemed only tangentially  related to my question.  That has been my experience with help files in general ever since I started using a PC.  It seems I don’t type the correct words to bring up the correct help file.  So please tell me how to search the bookmarks beginning at the beginning.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

As far as folder, I don't know how you are opening book marks.  If you open them the way I described, I think it presents a structure like that in Internet Explorer.  But as I said, and I'll add a bit here, if you want to find a bookmark and you remember a word or phrase that won't be repeated at all or much in other bookmarks, you can use the search bookmarks feature.  You can type, for example, rk times or rk and the letters ti to find new york times bookmarks.  I'll explain the feature more if you want to know. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>



Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Gene
 

The menu you see isn't any menu in the main interface and I'm not sure how you are getting to it.  If you press alt and then right arrow and you don't move to five or six menu titles, one of them being book marks, then try maximizing the program.  If that doesn't let you see the menus, I don't know why you are seeing what you are describing.  How are you getting to the menu?
 
Gene

-----Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I would never have thought of finding bookmarks under library.  I must admit that my method of working does complicate things for me.  If I had not hovered the mouse over the three vertical lines with a slanted line next to them I would never have known that this symbol means library.  All these cute little symbols make it hard for someone who has been using words for 30 years and suddenly someone decides that words are right out and symbols are in.  They probably have meaning to those who thought them up but a few lines that look like modern art don’t necessarily have meaning to everyone.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

In Firefox, Bookmarks can be found under the Library category from the main menu button or via the Firefox conventional menu, which can be invoked by hitting ALT.  Bookmarks is one of the primary entries, and its shortcut is ALT+B.

CTRL+SHIFT+B shows all bookmarks in the Bookmark Manager (which has the dialog title, Library - this is my favorite access method, much like File Explorer)

CTRL+D bookmarks the page you're currently viewing.

CTRL+SHIFT+D bookmarks all open tabs
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Ron Canazzi
 

The keystroke to invoke the bookmarks menu in Firefox is alt+ B that is alt + Bravo.


Under this menu, there are the following items.

Show All Bookmarks Ctrl+Shift+B
Bookmark this page ctrl+D
bookmark all tabs

bookmarks toolbar sub menu
other bookmarks
recent bookmarks
Other bookmarks
get bookmark add ons


After these default listings come your bookmarks: folders first followed by individual bookmarks.


To get the whole list of bookmarks you have saved, the keystroke (which has been stated in other messages in this thread) is control + shift + B.


This last keystroke brings up your bookmarks list in a separate browser window with the default items and the folder in a tree view and the bookmarks within each folder in a list view which you access by pressing the tab key once from the tree view.  If you have no folder in your bookmarks list, then the individual bookmarks are in the list view under the bookmarks default folder one tab press from the tree view.


This is about as detailed a description as one can give of just how to access bookmarks in Firefox and how to manipulate them.  I hope this helps.


On 2/9/2019 4:58 PM, MAX wrote:

OK.  Here is a list of everything I see in the fire fox open menu.

 

              Sine into synk.

              Content blocking standard.

              New window.

              New private  window.

              Restore previous session.

              Zoom 100%

              Edit.

              Library

              Add-ons.

              Options.

              Customize.

              Open file.

              Save page as.

              Print.

              Find in this page.

              More.

              Web developer.

              Help.

              Exit exit fire fox.

 

I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks. 

Find in this page seems to be on the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the current page as you might expect.

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Not only is it not an “easter egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my comment.  I'm saying that you assumed you couldn't manage book marks.  Instead of assuming, if you ask here or use some sort of documentation or instructional material, you will save yourself time and trouble, perhaps a lot.  I'm speaking in general, concerning programs and Windows.

 

It isn't an easter egg.  There is nothing hidden about this.  It is common to have context menus in various structures of a program.

 

I don't know how sighted people learn this.  I learned it because, whenever I want to see how to do something more easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a list or a menu, I look through the context menu. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Gene
 

I'm not sure what you are describing.  If you press alt and right arrow through the menu titles, you should find a book marks menu.  If you don't, I'm not sure why but perhaps maximizing the program would show it. 
 
Have you created any book marks with the word help as part of the title?  If you search for the word help, the list will show any bookmark with the letters help in it, whether those letters occur at the beginning, middle, or end, anywhere in the string of characters. 
 
It sounds to me as though you may be trying to search the help system instead of bookmarks but I can't tell just what you are doing.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Hi Gene.

 

I called it up the way you told me.  Obviously the bookmarks aren’t secret but they must be called something else in the menu because there is nothing called bookmarks in the Firefox open menu.  I did find this time that if I down arrow through the list nvda does announce sub menu on items marked with a folder icon.  I tried to find out on my own how to search for something in the bookmarks.  I selected help and typed search in bookmarks.  The list of topics seemed only tangentially  related to my question.  That has been my experience with help files in general ever since I started using a PC.  It seems I don’t type the correct words to bring up the correct help file.  So please tell me how to search the bookmarks beginning at the beginning.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

As far as folder, I don't know how you are opening book marks.  If you open them the way I described, I think it presents a structure like that in Internet Explorer.  But as I said, and I'll add a bit here, if you want to find a bookmark and you remember a word or phrase that won't be repeated at all or much in other bookmarks, you can use the search bookmarks feature.  You can type, for example, rk times or rk and the letters ti to find new york times bookmarks.  I'll explain the feature more if you want to know. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>




Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

MAX <max@...>
 

I would never have thought of finding bookmarks under library.  I must admit that my method of working does complicate things for me.  If I had not hovered the mouse over the three vertical lines with a slanted line next to them I would never have known that this symbol means library.  All these cute little symbols make it hard for someone who has been using words for 30 years and suddenly someone decides that words are right out and symbols are in.  They probably have meaning to those who thought them up but a few lines that look like modern art don’t necessarily have meaning to everyone.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

In Firefox, Bookmarks can be found under the Library category from the main menu button or via the Firefox conventional menu, which can be invoked by hitting ALT.  Bookmarks is one of the primary entries, and its shortcut is ALT+B.

CTRL+SHIFT+B shows all bookmarks in the Bookmark Manager (which has the dialog title, Library - this is my favorite access method, much like File Explorer)

CTRL+D bookmarks the page you're currently viewing.

CTRL+SHIFT+D bookmarks all open tabs
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back