Date   

Unable to read the edit field labels for the file properties in Microsoft Excel and Microsoft Word

David Apps
 

I hope that you are having a great day.

I am using NVDA 2018.3.2 with Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit) (Version 10.0.17134 Build 17134) and Microsoft Excel for Office 365 MSO (16.0.10827.20118) (32-bit).

When I view or edit the file properties in Microsoft Excel or Microsoft Word (File > Info), NVDA does not read the labels for the edit fields for the properties (Title, Tags, and so on). Am I doing something wrong or should I report this as a bug?

Thank you

David

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Re: Incorrect character count when selecting text in the Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications editor in Microsoft Office

Quentin Christensen
 

You're not doing something wrong and that does look like the kind of thing you could report.  I can replicate it as well and so I've submitted the issue to our GitHub here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8851  Do feel free to subscribe for updates, or comment to the issue if you've got more info.

Regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 6:26 PM David Apps <david.apps@...> wrote:

I hope that you are having a great day.

 

I am using NVDA 2018.3.2 with Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit) (Version 10.0.17134 Build 17134) and Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications 7.1 in Microsoft Excel for Office 365 MSO (16.0.10827.20118) (32-bit).

 

When I edit a Microsoft Excel macro in the Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications editor and select some text using Ctrl+A or Shift+Page Down or Shift+Page Up, I find that the maximum number of characters that NVDA reports as selected is 1023. NVDA reports "1023 characters selected" even when more than 1023 characters have been selected. Am I doing something wrong or does this seem like a bug that I should report?

 

Thank you

 

David

 


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Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Incorrect character count when selecting text in the Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications editor in Microsoft Office

David Apps
 

I hope that you are having a great day.

 

I am using NVDA 2018.3.2 with Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit) (Version 10.0.17134 Build 17134) and Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications 7.1 in Microsoft Excel for Office 365 MSO (16.0.10827.20118) (32-bit).

 

When I edit a Microsoft Excel macro in the Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications editor and select some text using Ctrl+A or Shift+Page Down or Shift+Page Up, I find that the maximum number of characters that NVDA reports as selected is 1023. NVDA reports "1023 characters selected" even when more than 1023 characters have been selected. Am I doing something wrong or does this seem like a bug that I should report?

 

Thank you

 

David

 


Notice of Confidentiality

This email is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this information. Delivery of this message to any person other than the individual or entity to whom it is addressed is not intended in any way to waive confidentiality. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender and delete the message immediately.

RNA Analytics is a limited liability company registered in England and Wales, under registered number 10521383.
The registered address is: Ground Floor, Bancroft Place, 10 Bancroft Road, Reigate, Surrey, RH2 7RP, United Kingdom



Unexpected behavior with the SwingSet2 Java Swing application using the Java Access Bridge

David Apps
 

I hope that you are having a great day.

I am using NVDA 2018.3.2 with Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit). I have encountered some issues with the SwingSet2 application, which is a Java Swing application that Oracle suggest is suitable for testing whether the Java Access Bridge is working correctly.

I have listed several issues. Please help me to know which items are due to my ignorance, which items are due to my high expectations, which items are due to inevitable behavior when using the Java Access Bridge or Java Swing applications in general, which items are due to the way the Java Swing application is written, and which items are possibly NVDA bugs or feature requests. If you do not already need to use a Java Swing application, it is probably not worth you trying these steps, unless you think that you will enjoy doing so. If you already use the Java Access Bridge, you will not need to perform the first two steps.

1. Install the 32-bit and 64-bit Java Runtime Environment packages from the page at the following address:

https://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

2. Enable the Java Access Bridge, using the instructions on the page at the following address:

https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/access/enable_and_test.html

3. Download jdk-8u181-windows-x64-demos.zip from the page at the following address:

https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk8-downloads-2133151.html

4. Extract the files from the .zip archive.
5. Start demo\jfc\SwingSet2\SwingSet2.jar with a command of the form java -jar SwingSet2.jar.
6. Press the Tab key to navigate to the "JButton, JRadioButton, JToggleButton, JCheckbox demos" toggle button. NVDA says "toggle button 0 not pressed JButton, JRadioButton, JToggleButton, JCheckbox demos 2 of 16". Why does NVDA say "0"?
7. Press the Space key to activate the toggle button. NVDA says "1 checked". Why does NVDA say "1"? (This is likely to be related to item 6.)
8. NVDA now reads the toggle button as "toggle button 1 not pressed checked JButton, JRadioButton, JToggleButton, JCheckbox demos 2 of 16". Why does NVDA say "1 not pressed" when "pressed" would probably be more helpful? (This might be related to items 6 and 7.)
9. Press the Tab key until you reach the "Three!" button. Press NVDA+Up Arrow quickly to get NVDA to spell the label of the button. NVDA spells three spaces before the button label. Is this what you would expect?
10. In the "Image Buttons" group, should NVDA read the image buttons as "button"? (Perhaps the images have no alternative text labels.)
11. In the "Display Options" group of check boxes and the "Pad Amount" group of radio buttons, should NVDA read the "Display Options" or "Pad Amount" group label? I expected to hear it as I use Tab or Shift+Tab to enter the group, but I do not hear it. Perhaps the group label has not been correctly associated with the check boxes or the radio buttons.
12. In the "Pad Amount" group of radio buttons, should the keyboard focus always be on the first radio button when I reach the group of radio buttons by pressing the Tab key and should the keyboard focus always be on the last radio button when I reach the group of radio buttons by pressing the Shift+Tab key? I expected the currently selected radio button to receive the keyboard focus, but perhaps this is what happens in Java Swing applications by default.
13. Press the "JColorChooser demo" toggle button. NVDA stops responding. After restarting NVDA, NVDA has no access to the Java Swing application. Is there anything that the user or the developer of the application can do to re-establish access? The only method I have found is exiting the Java Swing application and starting it again. Is there anything that NVDA can do to establish access with a Java application that is already running?
14. Press the "JComboBox demo" toggle button. When the focus is on a combo box, should the user be able to press Up Arrow to open or change the value of the combo box when it is closed? (Down Arrow, Alt+Down Arrow, and Alt+Up Arrow open the combo box when it is closed.) I expected to be able to alter the value of a closed combo box with the Down Arrow and Up Arrow keys, but perhaps this is not available in Java Swing applications by default.
15. Press the "JOptionPane Demo" toggle button.
16. Press the "Show Input Dialog" button. A dialog box appears. NVDA does not read the label of the edit field. After pressing Alt+Tab twice to switch to another application and back again, I can use NVDA+B to discover that I am being asked "What is your favorite movie?". Should NVDA read the label or is it not correctly associated with the edit field?
17. Enter some text in the edit field and press the "OK" button. A message box appears. When it does so, NVDA reads the message, but NVDA+B does not get NVDA to read the message to me again. Should it? If I use Alt+Tab twice to switch to another application and back again, NVDA+B reads the message box to me, as expected.
18. Press the "JTabbedPane demo" toggle button.
19. The tab control has four tabs with the labels "Hania", "Ewan", "Laine", and "Bouncing Babies!". Should NVDA report the number of the tab and the number of tabs (for example, "tab 1 of 4")? This would be useful, because the tab panel control wraps.
20. Select the "Bouncing Babies!" tab and press NVDA+Up Arrow twice quickly to get NVDA to spell the label of the tab. NVDA spells four spaces at the start of the label. Is this what you would expect? (This might be related to item 9.)
21. Press the "JTable demo" button. In the "Favorite Food" column of the table, NVDA does not read the contents of the column. (Perhaps the images have no alternative text labels.) (This might be related to item 10.)

Thank you

David

________________________________

Notice of Confidentiality

This email is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this information. Delivery of this message to any person other than the individual or entity to whom it is addressed is not intended in any way to waive confidentiality. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender and delete the message immediately.

RNA Analytics is a limited liability company registered in England and Wales, under registered number 10521383.
The registered address is: Ground Floor, Bancroft Place, 10 Bancroft Road, Reigate, Surrey, RH2 7RP, United Kingdom

________________________________


Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Sorry, can all those unrelated nonsense discussion move to somewhere else?
I have problem following the core discussion here.

I here tested out Firefox beta 63 64bit on portableapps.com on my win 7 64 bit and everything seemed go fine.






Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 16/10/2018 18:58 寫道:

Yes this is your opinion, but it does not really add to the conversation of, is the new version broken or not on windows 7. 62 works fine here but not in its 32 bit guise as that too fails to be accessible on web pages.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.





On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to their browser as well.; Brian


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Re: accessible Medium desktop client

Jason White
 

There appears to be an Emacs extension available. If you like Emacs, it would be well worth investigating.

 

From: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Kingett <kingettr@...>
Reply-To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 09:09
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible Medium desktop client

 

when you copy and paste from an offline editor to the Medium platform, all of your formatting and links and otherwise are gone. Medium has keyboard commands, but the developers are moving very slow when it comes to accessibility. In one update, they fixed some accessibility bugs, unlabeled buttons, VO, VoiceOver, losing focus, in their IOS app but nothing after that. On the bright side, their dashbard is somewhat usable. I was able to join the partner program, although, I still have no idea why, one month, my one article about accessibility training landed me $2,000 when the others fluctuate month to month. Anyway, as of now, there is no integrated offline solution. Open Live Writer is a solution, but someone told me filling in all of those missing accessibility attributes would be way too much work for 1 person to do, and, so, well, here I am.

I can use wordpress and wordpress.com. but it does not make me money. Medium is making it really easy for independant writers to generate an income. Same with Patreon, which is why I am aggressively trying to make these platforms accessible. I mean come on, I can't be the only blind content creator out there, can I?


Re: New wordpress.com editor and dashboard.

Jackie
 

Self-hosted as well, but, again, you can switch to clasic editor if
you don't like it.

On 10/16/18, Robert Kingett <@blindjourno> wrote:
As of now, I have a script going in Greace monkey to always use the old
style, the classic editor, but I thought some of you would like to take
a look at the plans for this new dashboard. I know it is making it's way
to wordpress.com, I am just not sure about self-hosted sites. Anyway,
below is the git page.


https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md




--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


New wordpress.com editor and dashboard.

 

As of now, I have a script going in Greace monkey to always use the old style, the classic editor, but I thought some of you would like to take a look at the plans for this new dashboard. I know it is making it's way to wordpress.com, I am just not sure about self-hosted sites. Anyway, below is the git page.


https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md


Weather Plus 4.7 16.10.2018 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 


Hi to every one,
 
Changes in this version:
• Removed unnecessary notification of download complete when the update of Weather Plus.
• Added 6 new sound effects; It will be necessary to update them from the settings of the plugin.
Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.7.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html
Make sure that the extension of the downloaded file is correct, otherwise
rename it  in .nvda-addon.
Thanks.
Regards
Adriano Barbieri


Anoying repeating message while in FastMail

Cleverson Casarin Uliana
 

Hi all, in case someone use the FastMail service, I'd like to know if it's possible to make NVDA not speak repeatedly the time since the opened message has arrived.

Thanks,
Cleverson


Re: accessible Medium desktop client

 

when you copy and paste from an offline editor to the Medium platform, all of your formatting and links and otherwise are gone. Medium has keyboard commands, but the developers are moving very slow when it comes to accessibility. In one update, they fixed some accessibility bugs, unlabeled buttons, VO, VoiceOver, losing focus, in their IOS app but nothing after that. On the bright side, their dashbard is somewhat usable. I was able to join the partner program, although, I still have no idea why, one month, my one article about accessibility training landed me $2,000 when the others fluctuate month to month. Anyway, as of now, there is no integrated offline solution. Open Live Writer is a solution, but someone told me filling in all of those missing accessibility attributes would be way too much work for 1 person to do, and, so, well, here I am.

I can use wordpress and wordpress.com. but it does not make me money. Medium is making it really easy for independant writers to generate an income. Same with Patreon, which is why I am aggressively trying to make these platforms accessible. I mean come on, I can't be the only blind content creator out there, can I?


Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

There is no such thing as a secure system of course as to make one would make it unusable most of the time. You just need to be careful.

Its all a trade off and people should know that its no different to real life in that regard.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


Gene said "Accessibility can be a security risk and stating that it is not is
an impairment to credibility."

For a good example of this, the Windows 7 accessibility service, available
before the user has logged in, can be used to get in to a computer which you
do not have the password for.

The short version of how a sighted person can do this is:

1. Boot the computer from the Windows 7 installation CD (or recovery
partition, USB stick, or whatever method you have to repair the machine)

2. Select "repair your computer"

3. Choose "Command Prompt" as the recovery tool and type the following three
commands:
cd windows\system32
ren utilman.exe utilman.exe.bak
copy cmd.exe utilman.exe

4. Remove the installation CD and reboot the machine.

5. At the Login screen, press Windows+U and you have a Command Prompt running
with System privilege - you can do anything, including resetting the password
to log in to the machine.

You can read the full version of how to do this at
https://www.technibble.com/bypass-windows-logons-utilman/


Regards,


Antony.

On Tuesday 16 October 2018 at 12:40:53, Gene wrote:

Accessibility can be a security risk and stating that is not an impairment
to credibility. It depends on how it is implemented whether and to what
extent it is a security risk. Mozilla could have implemented
accessibility in a different way that would not have slowed things down.
That is my understanding because I saw a critical comment by a
knowledgeable person somewhere criticizing them for that. But Firefox is
not crap. Some people have slow performance now and some don't and I
haven't seen any explanation of why. I don't know if anyone knows. But
categorically saying it is crap is not true nor fair. How quickly people
forget. Firefox was accessible maybe a decade before Google finally got
around to making Crome properly accessible. And now, because of a speed
problem, and a factually true statement that accessibility can be a
security risk, Firefox is crap?

In addition, there are many other reasons Mozilla changed the internal
workings of the program. This was not just a change to accessibility.
and Chrome isn't perfect either. It is a Google product and, from what
I've read, collects more information about what you do to feed the Google
selling aedvertising machine. I don't particularly care, there is no
privacy these days anyway, but some people still care, in their quixotic
way. Google is faster and I mostly use it now but Firefox isn't crap.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will
slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the
addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't
need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we
users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new
addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript
works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere
just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my
history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as
close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting
rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet
time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably
not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just
does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other
things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.

On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get
anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug
in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if
it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is
why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason
it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its
windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having
system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to
their browser as well.; Brian
--
How many Prolog programmers does it take to change a lightbulb?
No.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Antony Stone
 

Why do you trust a closed system created by Apple and not a more open system
created by Google?

Apple has more opportunities to hide stuff inside their system that snoops on
your privacy, and I think both have equal interest in the value of the data.


Antony.

On Tuesday 16 October 2018 at 13:01:13, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I think your main issue on an android phone is going to be data snooping
altogether whatever you use, as Android is an open system and designed by
google and as such is there to provide them with access to you as a data
mining site. Obviously, one has to trust they are ethical and all that. If
you want a secure mobile then only Apple will provide that, but at a heck
of a cost.
Brian

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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

hi shaun.
thanks for your reply.
i dont really understand why mozilla company should consider
accessibility as a security risk?
on windows, firefox quantum crashes and is very unstable and slow for
me and i never use it and use firefox 52 forever.
but, i wish to buy an android phone, which version of firefox should i
install that not face these problems which i saw on windows and i
appreciate your comment that you confirmed it\?
--
Ramdisk is not an installation procedure.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

For me its not slow on63, its just that it fails to render pages readable by nvda or Jaws any more, just like the earlier versions of Quantum, did I am merely asking anyone on their beta channel using windows 7 for their experiences, that was all. I'd much rather somebody alerted them than for it to just appear for those who use it now and instant no browser syndrome

For the record, the current 62.03 is not slow for me, indeed its fast.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


Accessibility can be a security risk and stating that is not an impairment to credibility. It depends on how it is implemented whether and to what extent it is a security risk. Mozilla could have implemented accessibility in a different way that would not have slowed things down. That is my understanding because I saw a critical comment by a knowledgeable person somewhere criticizing them for that. But Firefox is not crap. Some people have slow performance now and some don't and I haven't seen any explanation of why. I don't know if anyone knows. But categorically saying it is crap is not true nor fair. How quickly people forget. Firefox was accessible maybe a decade before Google finally got around to making Crome properly accessible. And now, because of a speed problem, and a factually true statement that accessibility can be a security risk, Firefox is crap?

In addition, there are many other reasons Mozilla changed the internal workings of the program. This was not just a change to accessibility. and Chrome isn't perfect either. It is a Google product and, from what I've read, collects more information about what you do to feed the Google selling aedvertising machine. I don't particularly care, there is no privacy these days anyway, but some people still care, in their quixotic way. Google is faster and I mostly use it now but Firefox isn't crap.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will
slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the
addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't
need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we
users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new
addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript
works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere
just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my
history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as
close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting
rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet
time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably
not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just
does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other
things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.





On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get
anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug
in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if
it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is
why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason
it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its
windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having
system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to
their browser as well.; Brian


bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.




Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think your main issue on an android phone is going to be data snooping altogether whatever you use, as Android is an open system and designed by google and as such is there to provide them with access to you as a data mining site. Obviously, one has to trust they are ethical and all that. If you want a secure mobile then only Apple will provide that, but at a heck of a cost.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


hi shaun.
thanks for your reply.
i dont really understand why mozilla company should consider
accessibility as a security risk?
on windows, firefox quantum crashes and is very unstable and slow for
me and i never use it and use firefox 52 forever.
but, i wish to buy an android phone, which version of firefox should i
install that not face these problems which i saw on windows and i
appreciate your comment that you confirmed it\?

On 10/16/18, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will
slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the
addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't
need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we
users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new
addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript
works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere
just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my
history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as
close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting
rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet
time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably
not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just
does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other
things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.





On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get
anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug
in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if
it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is
why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason
it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its
windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having
system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to
their browser as well.; Brian


bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes this is your opinion, but it does not really add to the conversation of, is the new version broken or not on windows 7. 62 works fine here but not in its 32 bit guise as that too fails to be accessible on web pages.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.





On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to their browser as well.; Brian


bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Antony Stone
 

Gene said "Accessibility can be a security risk and stating that it is not is
an impairment to credibility."

For a good example of this, the Windows 7 accessibility service, available
before the user has logged in, can be used to get in to a computer which you
do not have the password for.

The short version of how a sighted person can do this is:

1. Boot the computer from the Windows 7 installation CD (or recovery
partition, USB stick, or whatever method you have to repair the machine)

2. Select "repair your computer"

3. Choose "Command Prompt" as the recovery tool and type the following three
commands:
cd windows\system32
ren utilman.exe utilman.exe.bak
copy cmd.exe utilman.exe

4. Remove the installation CD and reboot the machine.

5. At the Login screen, press Windows+U and you have a Command Prompt running
with System privilege - you can do anything, including resetting the password
to log in to the machine.

You can read the full version of how to do this at
https://www.technibble.com/bypass-windows-logons-utilman/


Regards,


Antony.

On Tuesday 16 October 2018 at 12:40:53, Gene wrote:

Accessibility can be a security risk and stating that is not an impairment
to credibility. It depends on how it is implemented whether and to what
extent it is a security risk. Mozilla could have implemented
accessibility in a different way that would not have slowed things down.
That is my understanding because I saw a critical comment by a
knowledgeable person somewhere criticizing them for that. But Firefox is
not crap. Some people have slow performance now and some don't and I
haven't seen any explanation of why. I don't know if anyone knows. But
categorically saying it is crap is not true nor fair. How quickly people
forget. Firefox was accessible maybe a decade before Google finally got
around to making Crome properly accessible. And now, because of a speed
problem, and a factually true statement that accessibility can be a
security risk, Firefox is crap?

In addition, there are many other reasons Mozilla changed the internal
workings of the program. This was not just a change to accessibility.
and Chrome isn't perfect either. It is a Google product and, from what
I've read, collects more information about what you do to feed the Google
selling aedvertising machine. I don't particularly care, there is no
privacy these days anyway, but some people still care, in their quixotic
way. Google is faster and I mostly use it now but Firefox isn't crap.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again


Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will
slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the
addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't
need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we
users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new
addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript
works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere
just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my
history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as
close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting
rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet
time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably
not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just
does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other
things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.

On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get
anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug
in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if
it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is
why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason
it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its
windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having
system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to
their browser as well.; Brian
--
How many Prolog programmers does it take to change a lightbulb?
No.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Gene
 

Accessibility can be a security risk and stating that is not an impairment to credibility.  It depends on how it is implemented whether and to what extent it is a security risk.  Mozilla could have implemented accessibility in a different way that would not have slowed things down.  That is my understanding because I saw a critical comment by a knowledgeable person somewhere criticizing them for that.  But Firefox is not crap.  Some people have slow performance now and some don't and I haven't seen any explanation of why.  I don't know if anyone knows.  But categorically saying it is crap is not true nor fair.  How quickly people forget.  Firefox was accessible maybe a decade before Google finally got around to making Crome properly accessible.  And now, because of a speed problem, and a factually true statement that accessibility can be a security risk, Firefox is crap? 
 
In addition, there are many other reasons Mozilla changed the internal workings of the program.  This was not just a change to accessibility.  and Chrome isn't perfect either.  It is a Google product and, from what I've read, collects more information about what you do to feed the Google selling aedvertising machine.  I don't particularly care, there is no privacy these days anyway, but some people still care, in their quixotic way.  Google is faster and I mostly use it now but Firefox isn't crap.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will
slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the
addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't
need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we
users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new
addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript
works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere
just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my
history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as
close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting
rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet
time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably
not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just
does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other
things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.





On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
> Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get
> anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug
> in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if
> it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is
> why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason
> it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its
> windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having
> system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to
> their browser as well.; Brian
>
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
>
>
>
>



Re: Firefox 63 beta 64 and windows 7 64 not working again

 

Well maybe on android firefox will work just fine.

Android has chrome though which will work well enough.

Aparently the old way of web injection is what a hacker can use and mozilla say they are building a new access system but there are a few issues with it.

To be honest with the way they did it, restricting everything so its closed and so you can't access things like the registry and a lot of windows functions means that while its secure there are issues, the top menu never worked and there are a lot of issues with it.

Waterfox is what I use.

As for firefox 52, its a bit risky to continue using it for security reasons.

The fact firefox by default uses all processer power in multi cpu mode means that things can slow down.

Even though they seem to be saying the right things in their blog and while I aggree that some old ways we do access could be insecure, I actually spoke to the sound addon dev of navsounds, basically by taking out access to things allready in the system you need to make  everything from scratch and not everyojne is ready to do that which is why we don't have any sounds at all.

Its also why we have options that don't work and the fact we have all these inaccessible menus in noscript and probably tunderbird addon dialogs and such.

If you turn off the accessibility features in firefox then it will probably be fast.

To be honest though the same issue I have with firefox could be said about the uia in win10.

It changes quickly and has a lot of issues.

Msaa never had any real issues, and while uia works for the most part now, the old way just worked.

On 10/16/2018 10:51 PM, zahra wrote:
hi shaun.
thanks for your reply.
i dont really understand why mozilla company should consider
accessibility as a security risk?
on windows, firefox quantum crashes and is very unstable and slow for
me and i never use it and use firefox 52 forever.
but, i wish to buy an android phone, which version of firefox should i
install that not face these problems which i saw on windows and i
appreciate your comment that you confirmed it\?

On 10/16/18, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Reguardless of what they say, firefox is crap.

Simply that they deem accessibility could be a security risk and will
slow things down is my main reason not to trust mozilla anymore.

The only reason I use thunderbird is that I don't need to access the
addons interface which is flat out crap and inaccessible but I don't
need it.

New firefox is crap and will always have a bad reputation in my books.

Waterfox 56 seems to adopt both classic and new tech, and as long as we
users can get the scripts for it it will be good.

There are a few downsides to it though.

The first is because of firefox 60 and up we will not get any more new
addons ever for it and will have to run older versions of addons for ever.

Depending on what those are it may not matter in most cases, noscript
works as it always has, nav sounds, privacy badger, and https everywhere
just work and its all I really give a damn about.

I'd like it in ccleaner but as I have set it to never remember my
history at all well who knows.

Its also not secured as often or updated as often, trying to stay as
close to the esr versions as it can.

Right now its still showing firefox 56.

The authors say that it will eventually have to change and its getting
rewritten and also that there is an addon store coming.

The users are happy though and I suspect the dev is taking his sweet
time about any real change and is in no hurry.

If you really want a secure as up to date program waterfox is probably
not for you chrome is good, though they have their own issue.

If you can stomach firefox then its your best bet to continue I guess.

But if like me you just want the same old net to work, waterfox just
does that.

No tracking etc.

Ofcause you loose things like extra shields by default, and a few other
things like internal app updates, and autoupdates by mozilla updaters.

It does update itself so I don't think that matters.





On 10/16/2018 9:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried Firefox 63 beta 64bit on windows 7?; I cannot get
anything to read on the screens; it just says unknown.; Is this a bug
in the Firefox beta?; If somebody could test other than myself then if
it is; have a poke at Mozilla.; 62.03 seems to work fine here which is
why I was concerned. I had to do a system restore in case the reason
it fails is that its messed with the registry somehow.; Remember its
windows 7 64. I am still keeping waterfox as default due to it having
system sound capability. its about time Firefox built these in to
their browser as well.; Brian


bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.





Re: Windows key combination to change screen orientation

Gene
 

But control alt arrow key are only used for tables when in browse mode.  You should just be able to use the commands to change screen orientation when not in browse mode.  So it depends where you are when you try to use them for that purpose.  There is nothing wrong with using the pass through command in this case but it should only be necessary when in browse mode. 
 
Also, as I understand it, these commands only work with certain display adapters, which may be the reason that some people will be able to use them and some not.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows key combination to change screen orientation

Laurie,

You may have noticed by now, that the initial NVDA + F2 would have saved you the bother of unloading NVDA  and reloading it again after correcting the rotation.
 
I had not realised that the key pass through action was needed as I often have to correct the orientation of my screen when I look for sighted assistance. Glad to know it now!

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows key combination to change screen orientation

I've got it, but thanks anyway.

Here's what happened...
The orientation of my screen got flipped inadvertently-- not a problem for me but a problem for sighted onlookers.
NVDA continued to work just fine while the orientation had the screen upside down.
The combination control+alt+up arrow was not working to flip the screen orientation back to normal.
Then I re-booted the laptop thinking this would set things back to normal, but it did not.
So, I unloaded NVDA and then used control+alt+up arrow and that did the trick making the screen return to the normal orientation. I re-started NVDA after that.

This laptop is running Windows 7 and my NVDA is the most recent regular release. Strange.
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 10/15/18, Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io <lauriemehta@...> wrote:

Could one of you please remind me what is the key combination in Windows to flip the screen back to its normal orientation after it had been inadvertently turned upside down?
Thanks very much! (smile)
-LM