Date   
Re: How can I get the date from a Braille display?

Daniel Gartmann
 

 

Interesting observations.

 

Anybody else using a Braille display with a Braille keyboard who can check if it is possible to issue the command to show the date?

 

Daniel

 

Fra: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> På vegne af Brian Vogel
Sendt: 9. april 2020 21:31
Til: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Emne: Re: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

By the way, and not using a braille display, when I wanted to get the date announced when NVDA was running I did hold down NVDA then hit F12 twice in rapid succession.

The original post makes me think that NVDA+F12,NVDA+F12 was being pressed twice in rapid succession.  I used NVDA+F12 followed by just F12 in rapid succession, never releasing the NVDA key before both F12s were pressed.   I got the Save dialog in word, or the show elements panel in Brave, if I did NVDA+F12, released NVDA and then hit F12 again quickly.  But never when I depress NVDA, keep it held, and then hit two F12s in rapid succession before releasing NVDA.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Thunderbird issue update (comments should be sent to GitHub): changes to Thunderbird is responsible for annoying status bar announcements

 

Hello NVDA users,

 

As requested by moderators, please direct further comments to GitHub issue:

 

A few minutes ago one of the NVDA code contributors tweeted that annoying status bar announcement issue is caused by changes made to Thunderbird itself. In short, Thunderbird placed a tag on its status bar that will cause NVDA to announce messages continuously (technical: ARIA role status was used for status bar).

 

Unless it is justified that NVDA should resolve this issue on its own, this issue is something Thunderbird developers should resolve.

Cheers,

Joseph

locked Re: why do topics get locked way to quickly?

 

Really, Mr. Sackrider.

Group moderators and owners are responsible for actually running groups.  Moderation is there for a reason.  If you do not like moderated groups, then you need not participate in them.

I locked three topics today, one that had run 75 messages and had repeated itself, repeatedly.   A second topic that was important, but covered the necessary territory and did not warrant any extension.  The third was a single message, which recapitulated something the poster stated had already been offered, several times, on a topic previously locked.  Here is a note for anyone considering doing that, anywhere:  DON'T.   When an owner or moderator states a topic is locked that is never an invitation to start another one on the same thing.  That can and will get you banned in some forums, here we're a bit more lax.

You are not obligated to like a single thing about the group rules, but you and all members are and will remain bound by them.  If that is not suitable, you know how to leave just as you knew how to enter.

This topic is now locked.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked why do topics get locked way to quickly?

brian
 

It seems that more and more moderators are locking topics way to quickly when they have not been going very long or have had that many messages.  I think theyare doing this because they don't want to read what people have to say.  They are being dictators here they are forgetting about our first amendment right tfree speech. This is America and if I was a moderator of an email list I would never never ristrict anyone's right to free speech.  I would never lock any topic no matter what no conditions.  Everyone should have their say and the chance to say what they want to say and if the moderator does not want to read it well thats just to bad.  This is getting way out of hand.  If you don't want to read several messages then don't read them thats what I doLet everyone write what they want to right with no restrictions or locking.  This is why I like mytelaspace because it's the only totally free system you can say what you want to say and if people don't like thats to bad.  Thats the way that should be for every email list.  If you complain to the adminastrator you are told to just press your one or 3 key if you don't want to hear the message.  This is America so get with the program and stop taking away our first amendment right to free speech.  This is the reason that lists often have low trafic because people can't say what they want to say on lists.  The topic that just got locked was not evengoing on for a whole day.  This was a new topic about a new problem that people were having so it should not have been locked so quickly what is wrong with the moderator?

Brian Sackrider  o

locked Status Line In Thunderbird

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

With all the discussion of this extra verbiage with Thunderbird as concerns the status line, I have a suggestion. Actually this has already been mentioned here, but it is quite easy.  If you want the status line--which i do, when you are reading messages or moving up/down lists of messages in folder, just press alt + V for view, followed by enter and then the letter U for status line.  If it's on it will turn off.  Then when you  are browsing folder lists or receiving mail you can turn it on by using the same keystrokes and read the status line.

Again, I wish they had made that accessibility fix less vebose. They could have given it the same accessibility attributes as it had prior to version 60.9 and things would have been OK.  Maybe if we all send them feedback they'll fix it.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

A final message on this topic.

The issue I created for NVDA can be found at:    NVDA reads Thunderbird Status Bar, intruding on anything else you're doing.
The naked URL for that issue is: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10975

The Bugzilla bug related to this, filed by Shaun Everiss, for Thunderbird is available at: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1628891 

The appropriate place for additional input, if any, is on one, the other, or both of these locations.

This topic is now locked.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Adriani,

If you subscribe to  multiple mailing lists and if you have filters for each list and if you group messages by conversation, then seeing the number of messages in a folder and the number of unread messages is critical.  It saves a lot of time in moving around collapsing and expanding your conversations,  looking at the folder tree view and so on. 

Previous to version 60.9, when you used the hotkey for reading the status line, it red the critical information described above but otherwise it was silent.  You could navigate around the list of messages and read a message without hearing any blow by blow account of your actions.  With the old JAWS program, you could create a frame around an area of the screen and silence it and use a hotkey to read it.  Maybe NVDA developers could creat a tool for such activity.  Thunderbird isn't the only program where NVDA becomes too verbose.


On 4/9/2020 7:23 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
Is the information in the status bar very critical? Is it needed to be able to use Thunderbird?
If not, then I suggest to open a bug with Mozilla requesting to include only critical information in the status bar. And write them exactly which information should be excluded from reporting.

Best

Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 10.04.2020 um 01:15 schrieb Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>:



Hi,

Depending on what is causing it, it might be best to either:

  • Create a new NVDA issue on GitHub: if NVDA is at fault.
  • Report this to Mozilla via Bugzilla: if it is Thunderbird doing this.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

By the way, there appears to be a related bug on NVDA in GitHub, kind of:  NVDA fails to see text in the status bar of Mozilla Thunderbird 68 and newer
This bug was originally opened in November 2019.  It was the flip side of the current ultra verbose problem.  

However, a comment added yesterday reads, "This has been resolved in Thunderbird version 68.7.0. However, the new issue is that NVDA now tends to automatically read whatever Thunderbird displays in its status bar, thereby making the screen reader quite verbose. I suggest that the auto-reading of the status bar in Thunderbird version 68.7.0 and newer be suppressed. This is with NVDA Version alpha-19925,2d73010e."

There are others here who can advise, since this is the case, whether it's worth creating a new, separate bug or whether, based on the comment, which appears to have been seen by the those who check the reports since two tags, "app/thunderbird" and "bug," were added in response to that comment yesterday.  There's no point in creating a separate bug if it would either be merged into this existing one, or if the comment will trigger an issue split out in to a separate issue.  It's a question of where to comment, and whether that should wait or just occur on the end of the existing bug, even though the main problem description for that bug doesn't match the current issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

 

At this point, this topic is exhausted and is being locked.

Bug reports now exist for both NVDA and Thunderbird, and direct links to each have been provided in a dedicated topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 07:43 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I was able to report to bugzilla using my github account if that makes sence.
Shaun - this is a message from me speaking as Moderator.   Please, please, please start reading what has already been told to you about this not making one bit of sense and taking that on board before posting exactly what you've been told is wrong again.  It's the very least you can do.

If you don't start doing that, I will put you on moderated status.

One final time - There is absolutely, positively no connection of any kind between GitHub and Bugzilla other than they are both systems used to report bugs.  In this specifi case, Thunderbird bugs are reported on Bugzilla.  NVDA issues/bugs are reported on GitHub.

You cannot use a GitHub account on Bugzilla or vice versa.  They are completely separate worlds.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

Joseph, et. al.,

       Based on your latest comment I have created a new GitHub issue for NVDA:  NVDA reads Thunderbird Status Bar, intruding on anything else you're doing.

       The information included is a direct link to both the Bugzilla bug filed by Shaun Everiss and the other NVDA issue I mentioned previously.

       Unless I am mistaken, this behavior appears to have started only with the installation of Thunderbird 68.7.  If it is happening in earlier dot releases of 68 then will those experiencing it there please add a comment to the issue indicating same, and specifying the version of Tbird they're having the issue with.  

        I am currently using NVDA 2019.3.1 and do not know if this occurs with the same Tbird release, but an earlier NVDA release.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Gene
 

What happens if someone using NVDA goes to a page with a stock ticker that is a live region.  While there is no reasonf for the status line in Thunderbird to be a live region and it shouldn’t be, I think there should be a setting in NVDA to turn off speech in live regions.  This should be implemented regardless of what the Thunderbird problem is and no matter if Mozilla fixes it in a reasonable time. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much
 

Heck I don't care who fixes it, I just want it fixed.

If nvaccess thinks it can fix this faster than mozilla go for it.

I am over this verbose thing right now, I don't care who fixes it, there are obviously issues for both of you, its just who is faster to act.

I'd like to see what mozilla says and does, but in the mean time if you feel you can make this faster, then as a user I think you should go for it reguardless.

 

 

On 10/04/2020 11:07 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

If this is happening with add-ons off, chances are that NVDA is picking up events it should not react to. The most likely candidate is a live region, and if yes, it is something Thunderbird developers must fix unless folks insist that NVDA developers do, in which case a workaround might be written.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 3:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Considering the popularity of Thunderbird, NVDA developers might be willing to implement a fix.  Most people won’t have any idea what to do about these problems.  We also don’t know how much work is involved and how important the fix is compared to other projects being worked on, but asking about a fix would be a good idea.  I would imagine that NVDA developers would like to find out how long it might be before Thunderbird corrects the problem or if they intend to do so once they get reports.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 5:27 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Gene,

This may not be an NVDA problem specifically but I believe that the problem does not occur as frequently, if at all, with JAWS. This is not at all to suggest that NVDA is at all inferior but only that it's somehow intercepting these messages differently.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 4/9/2020 6:15 PM, Gene wrote:

 

but this isn’t an NVDA problem.  I suspect there is some way that speech is being forced, perhaps as in Chrome during downloads.  It would be interesting as a test to move away from the program window while something is changing such as when downloading messages to see if NVDA still speaks whatever speech is occuring in the window.  In Chrome when a file is downloading, speech is forced whether you are in the program window or not. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Hi Brian,

Your analysis is probably correct, but I am wondering just why the issue didn't exist in versions of Thunderbird earlier than 60.9.  Remember, before that time, the status line was visible, but screen readers: JAWS and NVDA didn't report all dynamic changes.  It was there and you could read it with the hotkey for status line. 

With the reintroduction of the status line, we now have this problem.  I wonder if NVDA programers can do something to change this--perhaps coming up with some sort of display silently and invoking reading with hotkey.

On 4/9/2020 10:38 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point).  And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

I was able to report to bugzilla using my github account if that makes sence.



On 10/04/2020 10:32 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
Shaun,

            The fact that you've reported this is great, really great.  But if you used both Bugzilla and GitHub then we're talking two different systems and two different bug reports.

             Having taken the time to look up this bug, it is a Bugzilla Bug on Thunderbird, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1628891, and is not connected with GitHub in any way.  For those who have, or open, a Bugzilla Account you can add additional specific commentary to the filed bug.

             GitHub and Bugzilla are completely separate project management systems.  Thunderbird and Firefox are on Bugzilla.  NVDA is on GitHub.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Heck I don't care who fixes it, I just want it fixed.

If nvaccess thinks it can fix this faster than mozilla go for it.

I am over this verbose thing right now, I don't care who fixes it, there are obviously issues for both of you, its just who is faster to act.

I'd like to see what mozilla says and does, but in the mean time if you feel you can make this faster, then as a user I think you should go for it reguardless.



On 10/04/2020 11:07 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

If this is happening with add-ons off, chances are that NVDA is picking up events it should not react to. The most likely candidate is a live region, and if yes, it is something Thunderbird developers must fix unless folks insist that NVDA developers do, in which case a workaround might be written.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 3:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Considering the popularity of Thunderbird, NVDA developers might be willing to implement a fix.  Most people won’t have any idea what to do about these problems.  We also don’t know how much work is involved and how important the fix is compared to other projects being worked on, but asking about a fix would be a good idea.  I would imagine that NVDA developers would like to find out how long it might be before Thunderbird corrects the problem or if they intend to do so once they get reports.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 5:27 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Gene,

This may not be an NVDA problem specifically but I believe that the problem does not occur as frequently, if at all, with JAWS. This is not at all to suggest that NVDA is at all inferior but only that it's somehow intercepting these messages differently.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 4/9/2020 6:15 PM, Gene wrote:

 

but this isn’t an NVDA problem.  I suspect there is some way that speech is being forced, perhaps as in Chrome during downloads.  It would be interesting as a test to move away from the program window while something is changing such as when downloading messages to see if NVDA still speaks whatever speech is occuring in the window.  In Chrome when a file is downloading, speech is forced whether you are in the program window or not. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Hi Brian,

Your analysis is probably correct, but I am wondering just why the issue didn't exist in versions of Thunderbird earlier than 60.9.  Remember, before that time, the status line was visible, but screen readers: JAWS and NVDA didn't report all dynamic changes.  It was there and you could read it with the hotkey for status line. 

With the reintroduction of the status line, we now have this problem.  I wonder if NVDA programers can do something to change this--perhaps coming up with some sort of display silently and invoking reading with hotkey.

On 4/9/2020 10:38 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point).  And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

Well I have never had the issue of not reading status, nvda sends progress when sending and recieving, in fact the status bar appears when sending but thats ok.

I don't need every message on the status bar read, message status maybe would be good, if there is an error or if something is processing then I'd like to hear a time report on request like I can get from outlook if I ask it for one, etc.

I don't need a running comentary.



On 10/04/2020 11:10 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
By the way, there appears to be a related bug on NVDA in GitHub, kind of:  NVDA fails to see text in the status bar of Mozilla Thunderbird 68 and newer
This bug was originally opened in November 2019.  It was the flip side of the current ultra verbose problem.  

However, a comment added yesterday reads, "This has been resolved in Thunderbird version 68.7.0. However, the new issue is that NVDA now tends to automatically read whatever Thunderbird displays in its status bar, thereby making the screen reader quite verbose. I suggest that the auto-reading of the status bar in Thunderbird version 68.7.0 and newer be suppressed. This is with NVDA Version alpha-19925,2d73010e."

There are others here who can advise, since this is the case, whether it's worth creating a new, separate bug or whether, based on the comment, which appears to have been seen by the those who check the reports since two tags, "app/thunderbird" and "bug," were added in response to that comment yesterday.  There's no point in creating a separate bug if it would either be merged into this existing one, or if the comment will trigger an issue split out in to a separate issue.  It's a question of where to comment, and whether that should wait or just occur on the end of the existing bug, even though the main problem description for that bug doesn't match the current issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

Well I have reported it to mozilla since it didn't happen before but hell if you want to crossport it to nvda git then be my guest.

Fact is, I am technically putting it on here, there is an archive to this topic if people want to make an issue and shove that topic on the git as a port for nvaccess well who knows.

It would be nice if the dev of the software actually fixed things.



On 10/04/2020 11:15 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Depending on what is causing it, it might be best to either:

  • Create a new NVDA issue on GitHub: if NVDA is at fault.
  • Report this to Mozilla via Bugzilla: if it is Thunderbird doing this.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

By the way, there appears to be a related bug on NVDA in GitHub, kind of:  NVDA fails to see text in the status bar of Mozilla Thunderbird 68 and newer
This bug was originally opened in November 2019.  It was the flip side of the current ultra verbose problem.  

However, a comment added yesterday reads, "This has been resolved in Thunderbird version 68.7.0. However, the new issue is that NVDA now tends to automatically read whatever Thunderbird displays in its status bar, thereby making the screen reader quite verbose. I suggest that the auto-reading of the status bar in Thunderbird version 68.7.0 and newer be suppressed. This is with NVDA Version alpha-19925,2d73010e."

There are others here who can advise, since this is the case, whether it's worth creating a new, separate bug or whether, based on the comment, which appears to have been seen by the those who check the reports since two tags, "app/thunderbird" and "bug," were added in response to that comment yesterday.  There's no point in creating a separate bug if it would either be merged into this existing one, or if the comment will trigger an issue split out in to a separate issue.  It's a question of where to comment, and whether that should wait or just occur on the end of the existing bug, even though the main problem description for that bug doesn't match the current issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

well to be honest I have added a comment to the report that at least for those with disabilities there actually needs to be a direct way to email someone to explain without mucking round like this.

Now bugzilla aint bad butt direct communication I still feel is best.



On 10/04/2020 11:22 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
Joseph,

           Shaun has filed a bug report with Bugzilla for Thunderbird regarding this issue, for which I gave the direct link earlier:   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1628891

           As I mentioned, there is already a bug in GitHub, NVDA fails to see text in the status bar of Mozilla Thunderbird 68 and newer , that seems to me to be the seed for a new issue.  What I want to know is what is the convention at NVDA/NVAccess in a situation like this.   Since I saw those two tags added to the existing bug just yesterday, after the comment reporting the current issue, if they follow a "spin-off protocol" it would be useless to log a new bug.  If, however, they don't split issues when something like this occurs to spin off a new issue, it would be worth creating one.   I don't want to create one unless I know it will not be adding more work for the folks who manage this.  I am hoping someone among our regular readership can shed some light regarding what should happen next.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

Hi,

I'm running some diagnostic tests at the moment...

From what I've seen over the years, once a user files an issue with the app developer, NV Access is supposed to be notified of this. In this case, since the issues described here and on GitHub are a bit related yet are quite separate, the best way is creating a new issue with whoever is going to file one providing the direct link to Bugzilla report. Then:

* If it is NVDA problem, NVDA developers will come up with a fix.

* If this is from Thunderbird, the issue will be closed with "needs external fix" label attached.

Cheers,

Joseph


On 4/9/2020 4:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Joseph,

           Shaun has filed a bug report with Bugzilla for Thunderbird regarding this issue, for which I gave the direct link earlier:   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1628891

           As I mentioned, there is already a bug in GitHub, NVDA fails to see text in the status bar of Mozilla Thunderbird 68 and newer , that seems to me to be the seed for a new issue.  What I want to know is what is the convention at NVDA/NVAccess in a situation like this.   Since I saw those two tags added to the existing bug just yesterday, after the comment reporting the current issue, if they follow a "spin-off protocol" it would be useless to log a new bug.  If, however, they don't split issues when something like this occurs to spin off a new issue, it would be worth creating one.   I don't want to create one unless I know it will not be adding more work for the folks who manage this.  I am hoping someone among our regular readership can shed some light regarding what should happen next.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

Well the only thing the statusbar needs to do actually is simply be a blank statusbar and continue not reading so I can continue to get my progress as normal.

I'd like to be able to customise things so actions I do have sounds maybe but I don't need a running log output which is what is currently happening.

I liked it when the status bar was useless but if its going to have information then I'd like a way to customise things.



On 10/04/2020 11:23 am, Adriani Botez wrote:
Is the information in the status bar very critical? Is it needed to be able to use Thunderbird?
If not, then I suggest to open a bug with Mozilla requesting to include only critical information in the status bar. And write them exactly which information should be excluded from reporting.

Best

Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 10.04.2020 um 01:15 schrieb Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>:



Hi,

Depending on what is causing it, it might be best to either:

  • Create a new NVDA issue on GitHub: if NVDA is at fault.
  • Report this to Mozilla via Bugzilla: if it is Thunderbird doing this.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

By the way, there appears to be a related bug on NVDA in GitHub, kind of:  NVDA fails to see text in the status bar of Mozilla Thunderbird 68 and newer
This bug was originally opened in November 2019.  It was the flip side of the current ultra verbose problem.  

However, a comment added yesterday reads, "This has been resolved in Thunderbird version 68.7.0. However, the new issue is that NVDA now tends to automatically read whatever Thunderbird displays in its status bar, thereby making the screen reader quite verbose. I suggest that the auto-reading of the status bar in Thunderbird version 68.7.0 and newer be suppressed. This is with NVDA Version alpha-19925,2d73010e."

There are others here who can advise, since this is the case, whether it's worth creating a new, separate bug or whether, based on the comment, which appears to have been seen by the those who check the reports since two tags, "app/thunderbird" and "bug," were added in response to that comment yesterday.  There's no point in creating a separate bug if it would either be merged into this existing one, or if the comment will trigger an issue split out in to a separate issue.  It's a question of where to comment, and whether that should wait or just occur on the end of the existing bug, even though the main problem description for that bug doesn't match the current issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

Adriani Botez
 

Does this occur with nvda 2019.2.1?


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 10.04.2020 um 01:27 schrieb Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>:

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 07:24 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
[Status Bar] Is it needed to be able to use Thunderbird?
No, but it's already been pretty clearly identified that NVDA is doing something quite different than any other screen reader is doing with the same release of Thunderbird for the same data, as I very much doubt that Thunderbird does anything differently based on which screen reader is used if one is used at all.

This is an instance where there is enough data to strongly suggest an NVDA bug of some sort.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 07:24 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
[Status Bar] Is it needed to be able to use Thunderbird?
No, but it's already been pretty clearly identified that NVDA is doing something quite different than any other screen reader is doing with the same release of Thunderbird for the same data, as I very much doubt that Thunderbird does anything differently based on which screen reader is used if one is used at all.

This is an instance where there is enough data to strongly suggest an NVDA bug of some sort.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna