Date   

Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Gene
 

I prepared a tutorial teaching how to use ribbons a number of years ago.  I shall include it below my signature.  It doesn't teach use of ribbons in the Windows 10 interface but ribbons are ribbons.  Some people have problems understanding ribbons.  But most people learn them without too much trouble and some people learn them easily. 
 
Ribbons are organized differently than menus but they are similar in that they present information in an organized way.  To simplify, you move to a ribbon and tab and shift tab through it.  You move to a menu and up and down arrow through it.
 
Gene
 
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi Don


I recorded this a while back it shows 2 different ways of navigating the ribbons but this is with word pad.


Same idea for the others.


It shows you both when it is expanded and not and what to do if it is the oposite to change it.


The drop box link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/buzysfwi895vdnj/navigating%20ribbons%20in%20wordpad.MP3?dl=0

I think there is also a written one done by the other Gene on my nvda tutorials learning the basics page on http://www.accessibilitycentral.net

hope they help.


Gene nz



On 2/11/2018 7:46 AM, Don H wrote:
Running latest NVDA and Win 10 1809.

The old addage of teaching a old dog new tricks fits this situation.  Having great difficulty in using the ribbon while in file explorer.  Are there any tutorials as how to use such ribbons?

Thanks






--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: find command

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Is the insert key your modifier key or another like the caps lock or extended insert key? It would be that one you chose but you probably are using the right one. for example nvda key +ctrl + letter f key.



Gene nz

On 2/11/2018 7:41 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

Hi,

I have never had luck on a web page with NVDA finding text.

I have tried control + F

Insert + F

And insert + control + F

And it never finds text that is on the web page.

Does anyone know what I’m doing wrong?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Glenn Ervin  Orientation Counselor II

Norfolk Nebraska

402 370 3436

Cell: 402 992 0325

Welcome | NCBVI

 


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


NVDA and ribbon menues

Don H
 

Running latest NVDA and Win 10 1809.

The old addage of teaching a old dog new tricks fits this situation.  Having great difficulty in using the ribbon while in file explorer.  Are there any tutorials as how to use such ribbons?

Thanks


Re: find command

Gene
 

It's NVDA key, control, f.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2018 1:41 PM
Subject: [nvda] find command

Hi,

I have never had luck on a web page with NVDA finding text.

I have tried control + F

Insert + F

And insert + control + F

And it never finds text that is on the web page.

Does anyone know what I’m doing wrong?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Glenn Ervin  Orientation Counselor II

Norfolk Nebraska

402 370 3436

Cell: 402 992 0325

Welcome | NCBVI

 


find command

Ervin, Glenn
 

Hi,

I have never had luck on a web page with NVDA finding text.

I have tried control + F

Insert + F

And insert + control + F

And it never finds text that is on the web page.

Does anyone know what I’m doing wrong?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Glenn Ervin  Orientation Counselor II

Norfolk Nebraska

402 370 3436

Cell: 402 992 0325

Welcome | NCBVI

 


Re: percentage when downloading

Gary Metzler
 

Thanks for the shortcut.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] percentage when downloading

In the future, NVDA Key plus u goes through the 3 settings..

On 11/1/2018 10:28 AM, Gary Metzler wrote:
Hi Jackie,

That did the trick. Thank you a whole bunch.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] percentage when downloading

I'm not entirely certain what you're asking, Gary, but try under object presentation> progress bar output.

On 11/1/18, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi All,



I am using the latest win 10 and nvda. I would like to know where to
find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab? Thanks for any help.



Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@comcast.net







--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping
Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com








Re: percentage when downloading

Gary Metzler
 

Thanks for the info.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] percentage when downloading

 

Hi

 

Most of the time it is in the downloader program but as mentioned before where to go the shortcut key is for a desktop is nvda key + letter U it is sorta like a toggle which will go between beep,beep and speak, speak or off.

 

 

I think they also are used for when transfering say files you will hear them then etc.

In a program you usually need to be focused on the item to hear it.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 2/11/2018 4:51 AM, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

 

I am using the latest win 10 and nvda.  I would like to know where to find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab?  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@...

 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: percentage when downloading

Brice Mijares
 

In the future, NVDA Key plus u goes through the 3 settings..

On 11/1/2018 10:28 AM, Gary Metzler wrote:
Hi Jackie,
That did the trick. Thank you a whole bunch.
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] percentage when downloading
I'm not entirely certain what you're asking, Gary, but try under object presentation> progress bar output.
On 11/1/18, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi All,



I am using the latest win 10 and nvda. I would like to know where to
find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab? Thanks for any help.



Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@comcast.net






--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com


Re: percentage when downloading

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Most of the time it is in the downloader program but as mentioned before where to go the shortcut key is for a desktop is nvda key + letter U it is sorta like a toggle which will go between beep,beep and speak, speak or off.



I think they also are used for when transfering say files you will hear them then etc.

In a program you usually need to be focused on the item to hear it.


Gene nz



On 2/11/2018 4:51 AM, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

 

I am using the latest win 10 and nvda.  I would like to know where to find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab?  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@...

 


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: percentage when downloading

Gary Metzler
 

Hi Roger,

 

Thank you, that was very helpful.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 12:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] percentage when downloading

 

Open the nvda menu and then open settings.  Arrow down until you get to Object Presentation.  In there you'll find an item about progress bar output.  You can set it to off, beep, speak, or beep and speak.  If you have it on speak or speak and beep, it will announce percentage of the progress and I usually hear download progress spoken.  Hope this helps.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 11/1/2018 10:51 AM, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

 

I am using the latest win 10 and nvda.  I would like to know where to find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab?  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@...

 

 


Re: percentage when downloading

Gary Metzler
 

Hi Jackie,

That did the trick. Thank you a whole bunch.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] percentage when downloading

I'm not entirely certain what you're asking, Gary, but try under object presentation> progress bar output.

On 11/1/18, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi All,



I am using the latest win 10 and nvda. I would like to know where to
find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab? Thanks for any help.



Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@comcast.net







--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com


Re: percentage when downloading

Roger Stewart
 

Open the nvda menu and then open settings.  Arrow down until you get to Object Presentation.  In there you'll find an item about progress bar output.  You can set it to off, beep, speak, or beep and speak.  If you have it on speak or speak and beep, it will announce percentage of the progress and I usually hear download progress spoken.  Hope this helps.

Roger









On 11/1/2018 10:51 AM, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

 

I am using the latest win 10 and nvda.  I would like to know where to find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab?  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@...

 



Re: percentage when downloading

Jackie
 

I'm not entirely certain what you're asking, Gary, but try under
object presentation> progress bar output.

On 11/1/18, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi All,



I am using the latest win 10 and nvda. I would like to know where to find
the percentage while downloading in the settings tab? Thanks for any help.



Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@comcast.net






--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


percentage when downloading

Gary Metzler
 

Hi All,

 

I am using the latest win 10 and nvda.  I would like to know where to find the percentage while downloading in the settings tab?  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary KN4OX

Sendto: gmtravel@...

 


Re: WordPress for dummies

Kerryn Gunness
 

add me also to the word press list, if one is created

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerardo Corripio" <gera1027@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2018 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WordPress for dummies


Yes please add me if you were to start off a Wordpres EMail list! The only aspect of Wordpress I kind of know how ti work is the iPhone’s app sadly. I’d like to learn more, possibly to start some sort of a Spanish-speaking blindness tech site, in which I’d have audio content especially, and also give people assesments one-on-one on technology, and why not, seek donations from those who’d like to in pro for me getting access to technology and services which I’d feature on these audio contents.technola

Gera
Enviado desde mi iPhone SE de Telcel

El 1 nov 2018, a la(s) 4:51 a. m., marcio via Groups.Io <marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io> escribió:

Jackie escreveu:
You've given me something to think about though regarding the
possibility of starting a WordPress mailing list.
Jackie,
In case you start a mailing list on this, please, could you add me there?
I'm much interested in learning more of working with Wordpress, I'm sure it'll be pretty good.

Thanks,
Marcio



Re: Virtual dub 2.

Jacob Kruger
 

FWIW, it still seems to be just as accessible/usable as the prior version - had 1.9 here, but, just gave it a quick run-through.


Only real issue have had with virtual dub is the size of it's output files - have always ended up using another bit of software to convert them, to drop their file sizes down a whole lot...<smile>


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2018-11-01 2:58 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:

This is an updated version of the accessible video editor. I have not tried VD 2 yet because the developer is sighted, which always makes me skiddish on accessibility, but the homepage is below. Good thing is, it's open source, so if anybody wants to add onto it and otherwise, it's yours for the playing.


http://virtualdub2.com/


Re: WordPress for dummies

John J. Boyer
 

There may already be a WordPress mailing list on www.freelists.org but I haven't checked yet.

John

On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 07:51:49AM -0300, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Jackie escreveu:
You've given me something to think about though regarding the
possibility of starting a WordPress mailing list.
Jackie,
In case you start a mailing list on this, please, could you add me there?
I'm much interested in learning more of working with Wordpress, I'm sure
it'll be pretty good.

Thanks,
Marcio


--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Virtual dub 2.

 

This is an updated version of the accessible video editor. I have not tried VD 2 yet because the developer is sighted, which always makes me skiddish on accessibility, but the homepage is below. Good thing is, it's open source, so if anybody wants to add onto it and otherwise, it's yours for the playing.


http://virtualdub2.com/


Re: adding page numbers to word documents

enes sarıbaş
 

hello,

I am using office 16.0.10827.20181

 log will be sent privately.


On 11/1/2018 5:59 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Which version of Word are you using?

All I can tell you is that it worked fine when I originally wrote that section of the Microsoft Word with NVDA training material a couple of years ago, and in fact I most recently went over that section of the material just a week or so ago and it worked fine then too, both with the most current Office 365 subscription at the time.

A copy of your log here might be useful.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 6:28 AM enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
hi all,

So I want to add pages to word documents. However, when I go to the
insert ribbon, and click header, NVDA becomes unresponsive, and the page
number button appears unavailable. Does anyone know how this can be
achieved?






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess