Date   

Re: NVDA goes mad

Felix G.
 

Hello,
in such cases, a valuable strategy would be to use Narrator to get
through the rough spots, at least if this happens on Windows 10.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 14. Feb. 2021 um 21:39 Uhr schrieb Hettie <woehler.hettie@gmail.com>:


Hi all


NVDA suddenly started talking non-stop. At times it was talking so fast
that it kept making funny noises like an old-time vinel record when it
got stuck.

It was so frustrating to restart the computer with no normal NVDA.
Restarting NVDA did not work either. The last option was to re-install
it again as not even the fixing tool was able to restore nvda. That was
easier said than done as it was almost impossible to find the folder it
is saved in while the babbeling went onand then to find the installation
file by pressing N.

It now works properly again. Never experianced this problem before.


Hettie



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com






Re: NVDA 2020.4 rc1

Luke Davis
 

A question: After you have closed the program, can you press alt+tab, and hear
how many programs windows thinks you have open?
For example, close Thunderbird, and it doesn't return you to the desktop.

Then, hold down alt, and repeatedly press tab. It will say something like:
program name, row 1, column 1. Program name, row 1, column 2. And so on. How
many columns does it say you have?

If you get any more than one column, then you have something open you may not
know about. Perhaps you aren't hearing the desktop, because it's returning to
an inaccessible window, or a non-speaking Windows notification, or some such.

Luke

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021, Don H wrote:

Running NVDA 2020.4 RC1 on a Win 10 20h2 system. When returning to the
desktop after closing something like Thunderbird or MS edge it seems you are
not back to the desktop. Prir to this RC1 when closing edge or thunderbird
NVDA would announce desktop and the icon you were on. Now it says nothing


Re: NVDA 2020.4 rc1

Luke Davis
 

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021, Don H wrote:

Running NVDA 2020.4 RC1 on a Win 10 20h2 system. When returning to the desktop after closing something like Thunderbird or MS edge it seems you are not back to the desktop. Prir to this RC1 when closing edge or thunderbird NVDA would announce desktop and the icon you were on. Now it says nothing
In my experience, as a Windows function not NVDA, when you close a program, you are taken to another open program, probably the one you last alt+tabbed to.

and you have to bab or use other means to get to the desktop.
What is this babbing of which you speak?

Luke


Re: an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Gene
 

If you are saying that pages act as you expect generally, that may support my guess that you are discussing a small number of pages where the underlying page doesn't synchronize with where the brows mode virtual cursor is when you move around. I don't know if that is just a problem with NVDA or what might be done about it. I don't recall if I saw that behavior with other screen-readers, having used NVDA for a number of years. But, as I said, using k and control k may work around the problem.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 7:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing



It seems to be all web pages as far as I can tell. I wondered if it was specific pages but I can't find any that act as I had previously expected.




Thanks.




Dan Beaver


On 2/14/2021 6:45 PM, Gene wrote:
Is this on web pages in general or just this or that page? There are pages where browse mode doesn't line up properly with where you are on the page and tabbing, which seems to move more in conformance to where forms mode, or the underlying page is when the two diverge, may result in you losing your place. I'm not sure if there is a general problem that needs to be addressed. But if you want to move by links, use k and control k. K to move forward and control k to move back. You will be where you expect.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing



I have been bothered with this for a while but finally figured out what was happening.




If I am on a web page and I move down through the page I hear normal info. However, if I press ctrl+home or ctrl+end to move to the top or bottom of the page and then press tab or shift+tab to move through the links and other controls it moves from where I was before issuing ctrl+home or end not from the top or bottom of the page where ever I am at the time.





Sorry, that was a terribly long explanation and probably confusing as all get out.




I expected that once I press ctrl+home and do tabs it would move from the top of the page through the controls not from where I was when I issued the ctrl+home.




It does the same thing if issuing ctrl+end and then tabbing or shift+tabbing.




Is this something that can be fixed?







-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)







-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: NVDA 2020.4 rc1

Sarah k Alawami
 

I don't think this is a nvda issue. What steps are you taking to produce this bug? I never end up at my desktop, I end up back to where I was.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 4:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2020.4 rc1

Running NVDA 2020.4 RC1 on a Win 10 20h2 system. When returning to the desktop after closing something like Thunderbird or MS edge it seems you are not back to the desktop. Prir to this RC1 when closing edge or thunderbird NVDA would announce desktop and the icon you were on. Now it says nothing and you have to bab or use other means to get to the desktop.


Re: an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Dan Beaver
 

It seems to be all web pages as far as I can tell.  I wondered if it was specific pages but I can't find any that act as I had previously expected.


Thanks.


Dan Beaver

On 2/14/2021 6:45 PM, Gene wrote:
Is this on web pages in general or just this or that page?  There are pages where browse mode doesn't line up properly with where you are on the page and tabbing, which seems to move more in conformance to where forms mode, or the underlying page is when the two diverge, may result in you losing your place.  I'm not sure if there is a general problem that needs to be addressed.  But if you want to move by links, use k and control k.  K to move forward and control k to move back.  You will be where you expect.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing



I have been bothered with this for a while but finally figured out what was happening.




If I am on a web page and I move down through the page I hear normal info. However, if I press ctrl+home or ctrl+end to move to the top or bottom of the page and then press tab or shift+tab to move through the links and other controls it moves from where I was before issuing ctrl+home or end not from the top or bottom of the page where ever I am at the time.





Sorry, that was a terribly long explanation and probably confusing as all get out.




I expected that once I press ctrl+home and do tabs it would move from the top of the page through the controls not from where I was when I issued the ctrl+home.




It does the same thing if issuing ctrl+end and then tabbing or shift+tabbing.




Is this something that can be fixed?







-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)







-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


NVDA 2020.4 rc1

Don H
 

Running NVDA 2020.4 RC1 on a Win 10 20h2 system. When returning to the desktop after closing something like Thunderbird or MS edge it seems you are not back to the desktop. Prir to this RC1 when closing edge or thunderbird NVDA would announce desktop and the icon you were on. Now it says nothing and you have to bab or use other means to get to the desktop.


Re: Is Anydesk Accessible?

Thomas E Williamson, Senior
 

Hello,
I use any desk with no problems.
I am totally blind as a user.
There are always some work around to deal with.
Regards,
Thomas.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is Anydesk Accessible?

I completely agree with this statement. I've found very few websites or programs that are completely inaccessible. Many more are difficult to use but can be used with some fiddling. I'd say there are only a large handful of programs fully accessible, a great deal more are quite usable with a screen reader but take some exploring with, and there are very few that are actually inaccessible.

On 2/14/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 08:11 AM, Steve Matzura wrote:


we *can* start it and accept inbound connections,
-
I cannot count the number of, "It's not accessible," statements that
get made that are flat out false, and the direct result of just not
knowing the software that's being accessed.

I made this point yesterday in this message (
https://jfw.groups.io/g/main/message/86685 ) on the JFW group, after
someone had said in regard to Thunderbird, ". . . I found TB to be
not accessible due to lack of knowledge of how to navigate the app."
That is NOT, NOT, NOT, in any way, shape, or form, a legitimate definition of inaccessible.
It means you don't know what you're doing, which is true of each and
every one of us when we're new to any given piece of software. My not
knowing how to use or navigate something is completely disjoint from its accessibility.

If you can't navigate and/or access controls using ANY of the methods
your screen reader supports, that's inaccessible. But no one has any
reason to make any statement about accessibility of software they
don't have any idea of how to use. And in the case of modern Windows
app UIs, object navigation is going to be a very common access method,
so you can't say something's inaccessible because you have to use
object navigation (or if you have not tried to see if you can get to things using it).

There is a huge chasm between something being clumsy through difficult
to access, which may make it impractical to use (and should raise
complaints, too), and actually inaccessible - meaning impossible to
access in any way, shape or form using a screen reader.

And there's even a lot of software that, for day to day use, is
perfectly accessible for what one is routinely called upon to do, but
where several controls are inaccessible. Those controls are a
problem, and should be reported, but I wouldn't class software where
you can use a huge amount of what it's designed to do, but has a
couple of inaccessible elements, as inaccessible. It's software with
specific accessibility issues, but it's not inaccessible in any meaningful or practical sense.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of
disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel






Re: Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 06:53 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
the issue I feel here is that microsoft requires a sign in into an account, whereas most av vendors only require the e-mail and that's it for tracking.
-
I have no issue with requiring a Microsoft Account.  As I noted, a very great many software makers require same for using any sort of communication mechanism for them.  This is no longer unusual, nor particularly onerous, in my opinion.

And, as I already said, Feedback Hub when I last used it to report a False Positive did not require either of the things you mention, and I imagine it can and probably does query the definition version on its own, but there's no way I can prove that.

You have chosen a very specific method, the Microsoft Submit a file for malware analysis page, and don't seem to like it.  You don't have to use that mechanism for submission.  Use another one, as it's been identified.  No one is forcing you to stick with one you don't like.  You may not like using the Feedback Hub, either, but I have zero sympathy with regard to the previously noted page, as it's not, and never has been, the one and only way to report a false positive.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Gene
 

Yes, shift k.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Hudson
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 7:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

You mean shift K to move back.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:45:36 -0600
Subject: Re: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Is this on web pages in general or just this or that page? There are pages
where browse mode doesn't line up properly with where you are on the page
and tabbing, which seems to move more in conformance to where forms mode, or
the underlying page is when the two diverge, may result in you losing your
place. I'm not sure if there is a general problem that needs to be
addressed. But if you want to move by links, use k and control k. K to
move forward and control k to move back. You will be where you expect.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then
tabbing



I have been bothered with this for a while but finally figured out what was
happening.




If I am on a web page and I move down through the page I hear normal info.
However, if I press ctrl+home or ctrl+end to move to the top or bottom of
the page and then press tab or shift+tab to move through the links and other
controls it moves from where I was before issuing ctrl+home or end not from
the top or bottom of the page where ever I am at the time.





Sorry, that was a terribly long explanation and probably confusing as all
get out.




I expected that once I press ctrl+home and do tabs it would move from the
top of the page through the controls not from where I was when I issued the
ctrl+home.




It does the same thing if issuing ctrl+end and then tabbing or
shift+tabbing.




Is this something that can be fixed?







-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)








Re: an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Rob Hudson
 

You mean shift K to move back.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:45:36 -0600
Subject: Re: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Is this on web pages in general or just this or that page? There are pages
where browse mode doesn't line up properly with where you are on the page
and tabbing, which seems to move more in conformance to where forms mode, or
the underlying page is when the two diverge, may result in you losing your
place. I'm not sure if there is a general problem that needs to be
addressed. But if you want to move by links, use k and control k. K to
move forward and control k to move back. You will be where you expect.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then
tabbing



I have been bothered with this for a while but finally figured out what was
happening.




If I am on a web page and I move down through the page I hear normal info.
However, if I press ctrl+home or ctrl+end to move to the top or bottom of
the page and then press tab or shift+tab to move through the links and other
controls it moves from where I was before issuing ctrl+home or end not from
the top or bottom of the page where ever I am at the time.





Sorry, that was a terribly long explanation and probably confusing as all
get out.




I expected that once I press ctrl+home and do tabs it would move from the
top of the page through the controls not from where I was when I issued the
ctrl+home.




It does the same thing if issuing ctrl+end and then tabbing or
shift+tabbing.




Is this something that can be fixed?







-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)








Re: Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

enes sarıbaş
 

Brian, the issue I feel here is that microsoft requires a sign in into an account, whereas most av vendors only require the e-mail and that's it for tracking. Also, unlike all the other av vendors I've seen, Microsoft requires the detection name, and recommends adding defenition version.

On 2/14/2021 4:00 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 04:09 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
The submission URL requires an MS account to track submissions and the process of filling out all the info is rather tedious. 
-
A) The submission process for anything of this sort, Microsoft or not, is tedious.  (And I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out it's ubiquitous).

B) Though MS could conceivably drop the need for an MS-Account for tracking purposes, I can understand in this day and age why they won't.  I haven't been able to "contact tech support" or "contact customer support" for virtually any entity, for years now, without having first created an account for doing so.  You do not have to use your Microsoft Account as part of a Microsoft Account linked Windows 10 User Account, either.  You can work from a local account, but when you need to submit feedback (regardless of mechanism) that requires the MS account, enter the credentials then.

C) They kinda sorta do have it in the app, via the link I previously mentioned, which opens the Feedback Hub to where you can give feedback and all the appropriate categories are already populated for you.  It's not a direct link like the file submission link, but you can submit files, screenshots, and the like via the Feedback Hub.  I did my false positive reporting this way, and one of them was fixed in less than 24 hours.

I do wish they had, as part of the Protection History Pane, an option in the dropdown for a detection that was something like, "Report false positive," when you believe that's what you have.  It would make life so much easier, as the file in question is already known and quarantined, and they could easily automate the snagging and submission of the sample.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Gene
 

Is this on web pages in general or just this or that page? There are pages where browse mode doesn't line up properly with where you are on the page and tabbing, which seems to move more in conformance to where forms mode, or the underlying page is when the two diverge, may result in you losing your place. I'm not sure if there is a general problem that needs to be addressed. But if you want to move by links, use k and control k. K to move forward and control k to move back. You will be where you expect.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing



I have been bothered with this for a while but finally figured out what was happening.




If I am on a web page and I move down through the page I hear normal info. However, if I press ctrl+home or ctrl+end to move to the top or bottom of the page and then press tab or shift+tab to move through the links and other controls it moves from where I was before issuing ctrl+home or end not from the top or bottom of the page where ever I am at the time.





Sorry, that was a terribly long explanation and probably confusing as all get out.




I expected that once I press ctrl+home and do tabs it would move from the top of the page through the controls not from where I was when I issued the ctrl+home.




It does the same thing if issuing ctrl+end and then tabbing or shift+tabbing.




Is this something that can be fixed?







-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I created feedback about reporting a false positive using a screen reader after I'd seen Brian's first response to the original post.  I think it may be similar to the feedback that Brian created.  When I activated the link to that feedback, I got a message saying that my account doesn't have access to it.  I don't have a Microsoft account, so I can't provide the link to my feedback for tracking and voting purposes.

Thanks,

Louise


an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Dan Beaver
 

I have been bothered with this for a while but finally figured out what was happening.


If I am on a web page and I move down through the page I hear normal info. However, if I press ctrl+home or ctrl+end to move to the top or bottom of the page and then press tab or shift+tab to move through the links and other controls it moves from where I was before issuing ctrl+home or end not from the top or bottom of the page where ever I am at the time.


Sorry, that was a terribly long explanation and probably confusing as all get out.


I expected that once I press ctrl+home and do tabs it would move from the top of the page through the controls not from where I was when I issued the ctrl+home.


It does the same thing if issuing ctrl+end and then tabbing or shift+tabbing.


Is this something that can be fixed?



-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 

I don’t mind filling in all the info, this way I have full control, and can write up a description myself. I need to do that for several apps actually this week that I have that are reporting false positives. Like I said they are very good at reviewing the results we give them.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 1:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

 

It would actually be really useful if defender had an option to upload a detection to the servers from within the app. The submition URL requires an MS account to track submissions and the process of filling out all the info is rather tedious. 

On 2/14/2021 12:17 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

And, since I've participated, and I will say that certain things like knowing how to report False Positives to the maker of your security suite are really important and I'd let them slide anyway, this is a perfect example of a topic that also has nothing to do with NVDA, per se.  The question is really screen reader agnostic.  The same answers, as far as Feedback Hub, the link in Windows Security (which, by the way, opens Feedback Hub), and the direct report URL (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/filesubmission), would all have been exactly the same regardless of the screen reader in use.

But this kind of information that is so important to know, for all computer users, it warrants a "bending of the rules."

It's also a perfect example, though, of the point I was trying to make in the group rule, restated here: ". . . before you post a message you have to consider whether the question you are about to ask is actually about NVDA itself, or about the program you’re using it to access.  Questions of the form, How do I use . . . with NVDA?, are very seldom about NVDA, but are almost always about the program being accessed with NVDA."   If the "with NVDA?," could be substituted by, "with JAWS?," or "with Narrator?," that tells you the question isn't really about the screen reader, but about what's being accessed using the screen reader.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 04:09 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
[the process for submitting a false positive report and sample] . . . is rather tedious.

This observation, and my agreement with it, pushed me to submit feedback via the Feedback Hub suggesting that a "Report False Positive" action be added to the list of actions when a detection occurs that the end user believes is in error.  The whole process of sample submission would be automated by using that action, as the file in question is already identified and its location (even if quarantined) is known by Windows Security.

If you agree that this would be a good idea, have a look at the feedback link, https://aka.ms/AAb4kfu, then upvote and/or comment on it.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 04:09 PM, enes sarıbaş wrote:
The submission URL requires an MS account to track submissions and the process of filling out all the info is rather tedious. 
-
A) The submission process for anything of this sort, Microsoft or not, is tedious.  (And I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out it's ubiquitous).

B) Though MS could conceivably drop the need for an MS-Account for tracking purposes, I can understand in this day and age why they won't.  I haven't been able to "contact tech support" or "contact customer support" for virtually any entity, for years now, without having first created an account for doing so.  You do not have to use your Microsoft Account as part of a Microsoft Account linked Windows 10 User Account, either.  You can work from a local account, but when you need to submit feedback (regardless of mechanism) that requires the MS account, enter the credentials then.

C) They kinda sorta do have it in the app, via the link I previously mentioned, which opens the Feedback Hub to where you can give feedback and all the appropriate categories are already populated for you.  It's not a direct link like the file submission link, but you can submit files, screenshots, and the like via the Feedback Hub.  I did my false positive reporting this way, and one of them was fixed in less than 24 hours.

I do wish they had, as part of the Protection History Pane, an option in the dropdown for a detection that was something like, "Report false positive," when you believe that's what you have.  It would make life so much easier, as the file in question is already known and quarantined, and they could easily automate the snagging and submission of the sample.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Is Anydesk Accessible?

Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

I completely agree with this statement. I've found very few websites
or programs that are completely inaccessible. Many more are difficult
to use but can be used with some fiddling. I'd say there are only a
large handful of programs fully accessible, a great deal more are
quite usable with a screen reader but take some exploring with, and
there are very few that are actually inaccessible.

On 2/14/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 08:11 AM, Steve Matzura wrote:


we *can* start it and accept inbound connections,
-
I cannot count the number of, "It's not accessible," statements that get
made that are flat out false, and the direct result of just not knowing the
software that's being accessed.

I made this point yesterday in this message (
https://jfw.groups.io/g/main/message/86685 ) on the JFW group, after someone
had said in regard to Thunderbird, ". . . I found TB to be not accessible
due to lack of knowledge of how to navigate the app." That is NOT, NOT,
NOT, in any way, shape, or form, a legitimate definition of inaccessible.
It means you don't know what you're doing, which is true of each and every
one of us when we're new to any given piece of software. My not knowing how
to use or navigate something is completely disjoint from its accessibility.

If you can't navigate and/or access controls using ANY of the methods your
screen reader supports, that's inaccessible. But no one has any reason to
make any statement about accessibility of software they don't have any idea
of how to use. And in the case of modern Windows app UIs, object navigation
is going to be a very common access method, so you can't say something's
inaccessible because you have to use object navigation (or if you have not
tried to see if you can get to things using it).

There is a huge chasm between something being clumsy through difficult to
access, which may make it impractical to use (and should raise complaints,
too), and actually inaccessible - meaning impossible to access in any way,
shape or form using a screen reader.

And there's even a lot of software that, for day to day use, is perfectly
accessible for what one is routinely called upon to do, but where several
controls are inaccessible. Those controls are a problem, and should be
reported, but I wouldn't class software where you can use a huge amount of
what it's designed to do, but has a couple of inaccessible elements, as
inaccessible. It's software with specific accessibility issues, but it's
not inaccessible in any meaningful or practical sense.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval
can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel






Re: Reporting a false positive finding in Windows Security using NVDA

enes sarıbaş
 

It would actually be really useful if defender had an option to upload a detection to the servers from within the app. The submition URL requires an MS account to track submissions and the process of filling out all the info is rather tedious. 

On 2/14/2021 12:17 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
And, since I've participated, and I will say that certain things like knowing how to report False Positives to the maker of your security suite are really important and I'd let them slide anyway, this is a perfect example of a topic that also has nothing to do with NVDA, per se.  The question is really screen reader agnostic.  The same answers, as far as Feedback Hub, the link in Windows Security (which, by the way, opens Feedback Hub), and the direct report URL (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/filesubmission), would all have been exactly the same regardless of the screen reader in use.

But this kind of information that is so important to know, for all computer users, it warrants a "bending of the rules."

It's also a perfect example, though, of the point I was trying to make in the group rule, restated here: ". . . before you post a message you have to consider whether the question you are about to ask is actually about NVDA itself, or about the program you’re using it to access.  Questions of the form, How do I use . . . with NVDA?, are very seldom about NVDA, but are almost always about the program being accessed with NVDA."   If the "with NVDA?," could be substituted by, "with JAWS?," or "with Narrator?," that tells you the question isn't really about the screen reader, but about what's being accessed using the screen reader.
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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

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