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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
I had problems even installing it. It has to be said that its a beta, and has some rough edges still. I seem to recall the set up is key, ie the old skins normally allow exit better, but I've gone back to the old one.
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Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:37 AM Subject: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp Hi, everyone,
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Re: Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
You have to admire the creativity of auto spell check sometimes, How a mis spelling of the word sighted, became segregated is anyone's guess.
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Still it could have been worse, it could have put in a rude word instead! grin. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA Yes sometimes it seems that nvda is reading an old buffer. I seem to think some recent work is going on in this regard actually, but normally, simply bringing up a menu, then cancelling it will wake up the new buffer. I'm not sure why this sometimes happens but suspect nvda is reading a large amount of text its already buffered for reading and has missed the fact that the text has gone as this is in the web page buffer, not the nvda speech one.
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Re: NVDA and VirtualBox
John Isige
I'm pretty sure I recall one of the devs saying that you have to use the
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
command line to set up a virtual machine with it. I think at least one of them uses/used it to test.
On 10/22/2018 23:52, Kelly wrote:
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Re: Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA
Quentin Christensen
Is this just happening to those on the latest insider build? (someone's comment sounded like that). Could those having this issue please email me a copy of your NVDA log, ideally at debug level, after reproducing this issue? Also, which version of Windows you are using? Certainly, as everyone gathers, it's not the desired behaviour. I haven't seen it here although if it's related to the latest Windows 10 build, my machine is currently waiting to install that. The last insider build of Windows broke for me so I made it wait to update to this one... Quentin.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 2:22 PM Robert Doc Wright godfearer <godfearer@...> wrote: does this stay the same after pressing alt+control+n to reboot NVDA? --
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Rosemarie Chavarria
Pressing the alt key and arrowing up to C and hitting enter would close the program but I couldn't even do that in the new version.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 8:06 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp
I don't know about the new version of Winamp. In the old versions, presssing just alt by itself brings up a menu something like what is referred to as the system menu. You will see, if you up or down arrow through the menu, a close item. the command for it is c. But when I tried c, it didn't work. Press alt, up arrow, its much shorter, until you get to close and press enter. Does that close the program? Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 8:37 PM Subject: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp
Hi, everyone,
I tried exiting winamp but this new version isn't responding. Is there a different way to get out? I tried alt f-4 and x but it didn't work. To be honest, I hate this version of winamp!
Rosemarie
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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Rosemarie Chavarria
I did uninstall the old version first before installing the new one. After trying the new version and finding that it didn't work, I uninstalled it and reinstalled my previous version.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 7:45 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp
if this is the new version did you uninstall the old one first?
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Re: NVDA and VirtualBox
Kelly <kelly@...>
This is long before you get to any virtual environment. This loss of functionality happens as soon as you open the VirtualBox user experience for machine creation and management.
Kelly
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cohn, Jonathan
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 9:12 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and VirtualBox
At what point in using NVDA are you experiencing issues? Once a Virtual Environment is active all user interaction is usually expected to be controlled by the remote environment. Also, have you checked to see if NVDA is in sleep mode? It is possible thatsleep mode should be enabled when the window containing the virtual environment is active, but in fact all virtual box windows are causing the local NVDA to sleep. Jonathan Cohn
From: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Kelly <kelly@...>
Hi,
I recently tried NVDA with VirtualBox and found that the NVDA keyboard commands simply quit working. Browsing the NVDA issue tracker, the closest issue match I found talked about VirtualBox crashing with NVDA back in 2015. See https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/4795.
I’m not finding things crashing at this point but NVDA doesn’t read anything as I tab and again all the keyboard commands quit working.
The earlier issue was closed as a VirtualBox issue. My guess would be this experience I’m having is likely still from the same issues as caused the first to be closed.
What are the experiences of others here if you have tried VirtualBox lately?
Kelly
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Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Dale Leavens wrote:
While red may in most contexts refer to negative numbers it might also simply represent a highlight to draw the reader’s attention in another context.You are correct. This is also irrelevant to the issue at hand, since the scope has been clearly defined as Excel spreadsheet cells that are numeric (whether straight numeric integer or floating point or currency). If the cell does not evaluate to a null or undefined condition, there is always a value, whether negative, zero, or positive. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance. Huge. We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors. ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)
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Re: Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA
Robert Doc Wright godfearer
does this stay the same after pressing alt+control+n to reboot NVDA?
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rechell Schwartz via Groups.Io" <rechell_schwartz=glic.com@groups.io> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Sometimes I Can't Stop NVDA OK. How can I get to a new menu when NVDA is acting this way? I can't seem to bring up anything when NVDA is in this mode. For example, it ignore Insert + N, or even Insert + Q.
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Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA
Gene
its neither juvenile nor patronizing. It may
not be a good idea but these speech systems are created almost exclusively for
sighted readers and blind people use them. This was the case even when
working with the earliest Dectalk hardware synthesizers. I have no idea
how far back this practice goes, but it is assumed that sighted users would want
the abbreviations spoken and spoken as they are. As I said, it may not be
a good idea, but keeping in mind that almost all synthyesizers are developed for
sighted people may explain most such behaviors blind people often don't
want.
From: Dale Leavens
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with
NVDA So much of my software makes assumptions about things like abbreviations
speaking most two letter combinations as American state names. SC cannot
appear without being spoken as South Carolina for example and D r. Is pronounced
as drive. I worked for decades in health care with endless
pronounceaations of drive jones or drive Simpson etc. Certain four letter
words get substitutions. How juvenile and how patronizing.
While red may in most contexts refer to negative numbers it might also
simply represent a highlight to draw the reader’s attention in another
context.
Cheers.
Dale Leavens
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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Gene
Do you know how to use the task manager? You
shouldn't have to reboot even if you can't close the program within the
program.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Wolf Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 6:45 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp did you set it to classic view? there is a skin that is called classic view that you need to make sure it is selected the other skins are not blind friendly hth Hank On 10/22/2018 6:43 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: > That didn't work either. I just tried it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of > Brice Mijares > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 6:42 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp > > You may try alt space bar follow by c. > > On 10/22/2018 6:37 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: >> Hi, everyone, >> >> I tried exiting winamp but this new version isn't responding. Is >> there a different way to get out? I tried alt f-4 and x but it didn't work. >> To be honest, I hate this version of winamp! >> >> Rosemarie >> >> > > > > > > > -- check out my song on youtube https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Gene
I don't know about the new version of Winamp.
In the old versions, presssing just alt by itself brings up a menu something
like what is referred to as the system menu. You will see, if you up or
down arrow through the menu, a close item. the command for it is c.
But when I tried c, it didn't work. Press alt, up
arrow, its much shorter, until you get to close and press enter. Does that
close the program? Gene
----- Original Message
-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 8:37 PM
Subject: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp Hi, everyone,
I tried exiting winamp but this new version isn't responding. Is there a different way to get out? I tried alt f-4 and x but it didn't work. To be honest, I hate this version of winamp!
Rosemarie
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Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA
Dale Leavens
Perhaps the answer is to have NVDA announce colour change when encountered. I am not a fan of software be it screen reader technology in making assumptions about meaning.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
So much of my software makes assumptions about things like abbreviations speaking most two letter combinations as American state names. SC cannot appear without being spoken as South Carolina for example and D r. Is pronounced as drive. I worked for decades in health care with endless pronounceaations of drive jones or drive Simpson etc. Certain four letter words get substitutions. How juvenile and how patronizing. While red may in most contexts refer to negative numbers it might also simply represent a highlight to draw the reader’s attention in another context. Cheers. Dale Leavens
On Oct 22, 2018, at 9:21 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
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Re: An Anomaly in the Order in Which Collapsed links are Announced
Gene
You will often find that attributes of controls are
read in a different order when tabbing. This may be intentional, I don't
know. But it should be the same either way.
The user should be able to control this behavior
and it should be consistent no matter how you move, being controlled completely
by the setting as to order.
For another example of difference, note the
difference in order when tabbing to a visited link and arrowing to it or using
read current line on it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] An Anomaly in the Order in Which Collapsed links are
Announced I went to the NVDA home page and noticed something unusual. When tabbing through the navigation items it announced which ones were collapsed after it read the link names (e.g, Corporate/Government ‘collapsed’). However in Say All mode it announced ‘collapsed’ before reading the collapsed link, so it sounded like it was appending the word ‘collapsed’ to the previous menu item (e.g., Download ‘collapsed’ Corporate/Government).
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Re: How to Re-start NVDA
Robert Doc Wright godfearer
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Before going any further you need to go to the NVDA
menu insert+n
presss h for help
arrow down once to commands quick reference and
press enter.
here are all the commands you will
need.
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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Robert Doc Wright godfearer
you can press winKey +t
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arrow to the task and press the applications key arrow up to close window and enter or prss control+shift+escape to open processes arrow down to the offending process and press alt+e to end it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp I did set it to classic view. The only way I could exit was to reboot the computer. I shouldn't have to do that every time I want to exit. -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Wolf Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 6:45 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp did you set it to classic view? there is a skin that is called classic view that you need to make sure it is selected the other skins are not blind friendly hth Hank On 10/22/2018 6:43 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: That didn't work either. I just tried it.-- check out my song on youtube https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Robert Doc Wright godfearer
hmm, i am not running into any of the problems mentioned.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp I'm gonna reinstall the older version of winamp. At least I can work with it. I won't even touch the new version until they get all the bugs worked out of it. -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 6:51 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] can't exit out of winamp Well, thanks for the heads up on the new win amp. I'll stick with the old version until all problems have been resolved. On 10/22/2018 6:43 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: That didn't work either. I just tried it.
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Re: can't exit out of winamp
Robert Doc Wright godfearer
if this is the new version did you uninstall the
old one first?
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Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA
Gene
Rick and all
To use the format option you speak of, wouldn't
that mean that all the cells would have to be selected first? The very
cells that aren't indicated when reading? If so, that's a classic catch
22. I don't use Excel but if it works the way programs usually work, to
change something, it must be selected first.
If that isn't how Excel works, it would be
interesting and useful to know.
Laurie
I find your objection that undesired reading might
occur if the way things are read is changed to be without merit. first,
the problem is that what is needed to be read isn't read at all.
Assumedly, other color methods for indicating states or attributes of numbers
would not be identical to this means of indicating negative. If they were,
sighted users wouldn't know what is meant. So the screen-reader should be
able to recognize this specific case while not causing problems. But if a
problem is found, it can be corrected while still solving the current
problem.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with
NVDA And, for whatever it's worth, I hope that NVDA maintains the way it reads such things currently since we could end up with some unwanted/unforeseen consequences if simply reading the color displayed is replaced with something else. Thanks, LM -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 10/22/18, Rick <softwarethatworks@...> wrote: Hello Mary and Quentin: After following this thread since its beginning, I took some time to open Excel and play with number formatting. Excel essentially provides 4 standard ways to format negative numbers and currency: • With a leading negative sign • Bright red without a negative sign • With parenthesis • Bright red with parenthesis The case Mary seems to describe is the second, where negative numbers are simply bright red without a negative sign. As Quentin pointed out, you could set NVDA to alert for color changes to signal negative numbers. This case clearly violates WCAG guideline 1.4.1, do not use color alone to convey meaning. While I understand that it may be a common practice to format negative numbers in red, one would hope this practice would be deprecated as we move towards a more accessible world. This is not only bad for screen reader users but also a problem with printing on black and white printers and for people with some forms of color blindness. Mary, are you able to contact the spreadsheet creator and explain the accessibility issue with the chosen display format? Otherwise, are you able to edit the spreadsheet to change the formatting option? If you select the range of cells, press the application key and select format cells. Tab a few times to get to how negative numbers are formatted and choose a more accessible format for yourself. The first tab should get you to the category, which is probably currency. The next tab is for number of digits after the decimal point. Next is the currency symbol. One more tab gets you to the negative number format. Now, use the up and down arrow to select your desired format (the top one is the conventional negative number sign). Remember, if you choose a format which uses parenthesis that your NVDA symbol level is set to most or all or you will not hear left parenthesis spoken when the number is spoken. I formatted some negative numbers to display in the inaccessible format and ran the built-in accessibility checker. Sadly, it reported no errors. I reported this issue to Microsoft so hopefully it will be corrected in future versions. Rick From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:12 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA Thanks, Quentin, for answering the question. I didn’t send the sheet I have a long, because it’s not something that I personally have control of. It’s an organization who owns the sheet. So I didn’t feel right about just sending it out since it’s financial. With regard to the question of what should be overwritten or not, it seems to me that if this color convention is well-established, any sighted person using the sheet is going to know that red means negative. Therefore, the important information is not the color it’s the state of the number. So it should be overwritten. What you want is the message conveyed by the color, not just knowledge of the color. As a blind person, you might not know that red means negative, so you might not get the message. It would be like those talking signals they have where it says the walk sign is on. It doesn’t say the green light is on. I suppose most everybody knows that a green light means walk. But they convey the message about walking, rather than the fact that the light is green or that the little stick figure is on or whatever the picture is. Another example is the dots which means that there is a dialog box. Some screen readers like Jaws used to say…. Others would say opens a dialogue or has dialogue. I think the ones who say opens or has dialogue got it right, and the ones who say… Didn’t get it right. Why on earth would I necessarily know or need to know that… Means there’s a dialogue that will open if you click this. Mary On Oct 21, 2018, at 9:46 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote: I did also reply to Brian's other thread on this topic, and while I'm just personally interested in the discussion, I realised no-one has actually answered Mary's original question yet. While you can't specifically have NVDA decode negative numbers which aren't formatted as such, you can have NVDA report when the font colour changes. This would be most useful where you spreadsheet contains say all black text except for negative numbers. To do that, press NVDA+CONTROL+D to open the document formatting options, then press alt+c to jump to "colour". Press spacebar to toggle whether that is checked (you want it checked to report colour changes), and press ENTER to close the settings. Now when you get to a negative number, NVDA should report it as "bright red". As for why it is reported as "bright red 18.00" and not "-18.00", basically, that's what the person who setup the spreadsheet told Excel to tell us. A sighted user on the same sheet doesn't see "-18.00", they see "18.00" in bright red, and interpret that to mean -18. In the same way if the actual contents of the cell are "=A1-B1" they see the number, not the formula, unless you press CONTROL+` to toggle displaying formulas instead of values. I can see Brian's argument for overriding the specified formatting here, but would have to then ask back - in which cases should we override what the creator of the spreadsheet has deliberately setup, and in which cases should we defer to what they wanted? Regards Quentin. On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 4:20 PM Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@...> wrote: Hi all, Can someone share a sample sheet with this kind of formatting? Pranav -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ www.nvaccess.org Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Re: determining the color of a text in Excel with NVDA
Mary,
Thank you. The long and the short of it is that if accessibility software, any accessibility software, when working with numeric values does not actually speak those numeric values it is creating inaccessibility. Formatting is nothing but a visual convenience that means something to those with the sensory apparatus to apprehend it. It is not the essence of the thing. Speaking numbers as numbers, currency as currency, text as text, is what determines accessibility. In the case of Excel, given the preponderance of numeric data contained in spreadsheets, absolutely dictates that a screen reader would indicate to the user what is actually there, and what a sighted reader knows is actually there (and would read that way, too). If I were being asked to read a negative number, presented to me in any way, to someone who cannot see I would say "negative" or "minus" the value, period. It's the only way the essential information can be conveyed. The same should be true regardless of the formatting style chosen for a numeric cell. Its value is the one and only thing of significance if one is trying to communicate actual meaning. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance. Huge. We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors. ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)
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