Date   

Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 


i just go through them to find what I need. I work out a direction and path. for example,in file explorer  if I want to sort by date I do the following:
 
1. alt V
2. down arrow
3 right arrow to sort and press enter
4. up or down arrow to the item I need and enter
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

How do you work with ribbons?  Do you use the short cut sequences in both ribbons and menus? 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

I have found that I can do alright with the ribbons, but I find the speed of working with old style menus much better. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 4:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

Not noticed it myself. But it is my view and yours is yours. I merely point at other pieces of software not by Microsoft.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues


You have a problem, as you said .  Most people learn ribbons without a lot of trouble.  It may take them a little time but if taught properly, they don't find them a major problem.  You are discouraging people from learning ribbons.

I am skeptical and suspicious of ribbon removing programs.  I suspect you lose functionality when you try to force one interface to become another interface.  I hope people comment on that.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 3:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues


This is a huge can of worms. I personally feel that they are dire for blind users, but some people on here think that once you grasp the concept they are in fact easy.
 Its a classic case of the way your brain visualises the concepts.
 I did notice Jaws can be set to pretend they are normal menus, but my feeling here is that since you can use a simple add on to alter them  ie ribbon remover, then I see no reason why Microsoft do not offer the themselves, but in a recent interview with Jenny at Microsoft she merely said, Embrace the ribbon, which I took to mean  they are dogmatically against it.
 Bah humbug I say.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2018 6:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues


> Running latest NVDA and Win 10 1809.
>
> The old addage of teaching a old dog new tricks fits this situation.
> Having great difficulty in using the ribbon while in file explorer.
> Are there any tutorials as how to use such ribbons?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>










Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.




Re: a new modified nv-speech player

George McCoy <slr1bpz@...>
 

I think there are 7 voices and 68 variants, Gene. I'm running windows 10. That shouldn't make any difference but one never knows.


George


On 11/2/2018 10:11 PM, Gene wrote:
I'm not sure that my last comment in this thread is a question.  I installed the add-on but I only have four voices and no varients.  Does that mean I have to install other voices?  I'm going to look at the page again but I don't recall any discussion of that on the page.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Maybe the add-on by itself doesn't have a lot of voices that are available if you run something else along with it.  But as I recall, nothing is explained on the page.  I have almost no choices in voices and I'm just running the add-on.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Hi.


I grabbed this, and my favorite configuration is the plain Klatt voice, with the pitch set to about 75%. I'm having a reasonably easy time understanding that configuration, with language set to EN-US.




Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 11/2/2018 11:44 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

A few years back nv-access made an improved ESpeak that was called nv-speech player. Since then a few people have greatly improved it! I just tried it a few minutes ago and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like eloquence, sort of, or maybe keynote gold, kind of. There is other stuff on this site which I will not discuss for legal reasons. And please just ignore that other *stuff*. Just focus on the free nv speech player! First, the website with the modded and improved speech player stuff. Direct link.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/

 

Now here is my favorite version of the speech player addon modified by Jason bratcher. Perhaps, with this new speech player, someone can modify its intonations and make a keynote gold speech player voice? And give it more languages?

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/Jason%20Bratcher_speechPlayerInEspeak.nvda-addon

 

more speech player voices.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/voices.7z

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: a new modified nv-speech player

Gene
 

I'm not sure what happened last time.  I may have installed the wrong add-on.  But I double checked and installed the right one this time and I now have a lot of voices and variants.  My comments earlier should be disregarded because they refer to what appears to be an early version of the add-on which appears to be very old.  I may have downloaded it and forgotten about it a long time ago and installed it by mistake.
 
The new add-on doesn't sound anything like Eloquence and the accents and inflections aren't similar.  The american accent isn't at all American.  I'm referring to the English U.S. variant.  I'm not sure if its anything but it may be more a Scandinavian accent than anything else.  I tried the just plain English titled variant and, though the accent is different, it is somewhat similar and the inflection isn't correct in either.   
 
I don't use E-speak and those who do may know how to set the old one so it sounds better than mine or they may be using a newer version that may sound better.  But comparing the add-on to what I am familiar with interms of the old earlier version and choices such as variants, the add-on appears to sound better than the old E-Speak in terms of voice quality, but I still don't consider it pleasant.  How much might it be improved?  I don't know.  We'll have to wait and see. 
 
It may be a better choice for those who want to use E-Speak or consider it the best option they have.  I haven't heard a lot of the free synthesizers but it may now be in the range that many of them are.  But it doesn't compare with Eloquence or the old DecTalk. 
 
For people who want a free synthesizer, it's worth trying and evaluating.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

I should have said I'm not sure if my last comment was clearly stated as a question.  I'll state the question in a clear way.

I installed the add-on but I only have four voices and no varients.  Does that mean I have to install other voices?  I'm going to look at the page again but I don't recall any discussion of that on the page.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Maybe the add-on by itself doesn't have a lot of voices that are available if you run something else along with it.  But as I recall, nothing is explained on the page.  I have almost no choices in voices and I'm just running the add-on.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Hi.


I grabbed this, and my favorite configuration is the plain Klatt voice, with the pitch set to about 75%. I'm having a reasonably easy time understanding that configuration, with language set to EN-US.




Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 11/2/2018 11:44 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

A few years back nv-access made an improved ESpeak that was called nv-speech player. Since then a few people have greatly improved it! I just tried it a few minutes ago and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like eloquence, sort of, or maybe keynote gold, kind of. There is other stuff on this site which I will not discuss for legal reasons. And please just ignore that other *stuff*. Just focus on the free nv speech player! First, the website with the modded and improved speech player stuff. Direct link.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/

 

Now here is my favorite version of the speech player addon modified by Jason bratcher. Perhaps, with this new speech player, someone can modify its intonations and make a keynote gold speech player voice? And give it more languages?

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/Jason%20Bratcher_speechPlayerInEspeak.nvda-addon

 

more speech player voices.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/voices.7z

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: a new modified nv-speech player

Gene
 

I should have said I'm not sure if my last comment was clearly stated as a question.  I'll state the question in a clear way.

I installed the add-on but I only have four voices and no varients.  Does that mean I have to install other voices?  I'm going to look at the page again but I don't recall any discussion of that on the page.

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Maybe the add-on by itself doesn't have a lot of voices that are available if you run something else along with it.  But as I recall, nothing is explained on the page.  I have almost no choices in voices and I'm just running the add-on.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Hi.


I grabbed this, and my favorite configuration is the plain Klatt voice, with the pitch set to about 75%. I'm having a reasonably easy time understanding that configuration, with language set to EN-US.




Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 11/2/2018 11:44 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

A few years back nv-access made an improved ESpeak that was called nv-speech player. Since then a few people have greatly improved it! I just tried it a few minutes ago and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like eloquence, sort of, or maybe keynote gold, kind of. There is other stuff on this site which I will not discuss for legal reasons. And please just ignore that other *stuff*. Just focus on the free nv speech player! First, the website with the modded and improved speech player stuff. Direct link.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/

 

Now here is my favorite version of the speech player addon modified by Jason bratcher. Perhaps, with this new speech player, someone can modify its intonations and make a keynote gold speech player voice? And give it more languages?

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/Jason%20Bratcher_speechPlayerInEspeak.nvda-addon

 

more speech player voices.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/voices.7z

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: a new modified nv-speech player

Gene
 

I'm not sure that my last comment in this thread is a question.  I installed the add-on but I only have four voices and no varients.  Does that mean I have to install other voices?  I'm going to look at the page again but I don't recall any discussion of that on the page.

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Maybe the add-on by itself doesn't have a lot of voices that are available if you run something else along with it.  But as I recall, nothing is explained on the page.  I have almost no choices in voices and I'm just running the add-on.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Hi.


I grabbed this, and my favorite configuration is the plain Klatt voice, with the pitch set to about 75%. I'm having a reasonably easy time understanding that configuration, with language set to EN-US.




Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 11/2/2018 11:44 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

A few years back nv-access made an improved ESpeak that was called nv-speech player. Since then a few people have greatly improved it! I just tried it a few minutes ago and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like eloquence, sort of, or maybe keynote gold, kind of. There is other stuff on this site which I will not discuss for legal reasons. And please just ignore that other *stuff*. Just focus on the free nv speech player! First, the website with the modded and improved speech player stuff. Direct link.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/

 

Now here is my favorite version of the speech player addon modified by Jason bratcher. Perhaps, with this new speech player, someone can modify its intonations and make a keynote gold speech player voice? And give it more languages?

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/Jason%20Bratcher_speechPlayerInEspeak.nvda-addon

 

more speech player voices.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/voices.7z

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: a new modified nv-speech player

Robert Mendoza
 

I grab this earlier and loving this so far.
I was saying with the Speechplayer in eSpeak
and max is the default voice much snappy of my choice.


On 11/2/2018 11:44 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

A few years back nv-access made an improved ESpeak that was called nv-speech player. Since then a few people have greatly improved it! I just tried it a few minutes ago and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like eloquence, sort of, or maybe keynote gold, kind of. There is other stuff on this site which I will not discuss for legal reasons. And please just ignore that other *stuff*. Just focus on the free nv speech player! First, the website with the modded and improved speech player stuff. Direct link.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/

 

Now here is my favorite version of the speech player addon modified by Jason bratcher. Perhaps, with this new speech player, someone can modify its intonations and make a keynote gold speech player voice? And give it more languages?

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/Jason%20Bratcher_speechPlayerInEspeak.nvda-addon

 

more speech player voices.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/voices.7z

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

 

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 08:45 PM, Gene wrote:
Not you, the other Brian.
My apologies.  We certainly have enough history of arguing that it was an easy mistake to make.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Gene
 

Not you, the other Brian.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 07:54 PM, Gene wrote:
That's why I argue with Brian.  As one person, he may think whatever he likes and I wouldn't keep discussing it.  But messages discussing how bad or difficult to use something is on a large list may discourage use and a lot of blind people are already very disposed against ribbons and don't want to try them. 
I have no idea why you'd argue with me about this.  I favor, and strongly, people learning to use the ribbon interface because it is not going away.  It is the de facto interface in huge swaths of Windows dating back to 2007.

My noting that I have heard a lot of people, and particularly on blind and low vision lists, complain about ribbons is a simple statement of fact.  Each and every time I respond with useful information on learning to use them and emphasizing that no amount of whining is going to make them go away.  That ship, as I noted earlier, has sailed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

 

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 07:54 PM, Gene wrote:
That's why I argue with Brian.  As one person, he may think whatever he likes and I wouldn't keep discussing it.  But messages discussing how bad or difficult to use something is on a large list may discourage use and a lot of blind people are already very disposed against ribbons and don't want to try them. 
I have no idea why you'd argue with me about this.  I favor, and strongly, people learning to use the ribbon interface because it is not going away.  It is the de facto interface in huge swaths of Windows dating back to 2007.

My noting that I have heard a lot of people, and particularly on blind and low vision lists, complain about ribbons is a simple statement of fact.  Each and every time I respond with useful information on learning to use them and emphasizing that no amount of whining is going to make them go away.  That ship, as I noted earlier, has sailed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Gene
 

I should add that I don't know what I wrote in the past that made you so angry but if you want to discuss it off list, or on list, if appropriate and relevant to the thread, that's fine.  If you think I was uncivil, I'd like to know since I make a point of trying to be civil. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

First, I am not speaking as a moderator and it is inaccurate and incorrect to imply that I am.  I disagreed about ribbons long before I was a moderator and, unless I send a message to the list on a moderation matter and speak as a moderator, I am speaking as a member. 
 
If I were just discussing the subject with one person, I wouldn't keep debating.  What one person thinks in discussion is what one person thinks.  But I'm not going off on you to go off on you..  I am strongly disagreeing and the reason I do is because I don't know how many of other hundreds of people may be reading the comments.  There needs to be a balance that will let people know that ribbons are being used successfully by a lot of blind people so that the negative comments don't discourage learning.  That's why I argue with Brian.  As one person, he may think whatever he likes and I wouldn't keep discussing it.  But messages discussing how bad or difficult to use something is on a large list may discourage use and a lot of blind people are already very disposed against ribbons and don't want to try them. 
 
Remember when the transition to Windows from Dos took place?  What about all the massive resistance to Windows there was?  Where is it now? 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

I don't complain about the ribbons any more because it usually creates
such an intense and useless discussion that the moderator goes off on me
and I almost get mad enough to say something that will get me banned
permanently.



On 11/2/2018 7:19 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
> Um, "people are more likely to complain if they dislike something"...
>
> Well, of course - you wouldn't expect them to complain if they like it, would
> you?
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Saturday 03 November 2018 at 00:14:34, Gene wrote:
>
>> If they are so hated, then see the following discussion and account for the
>> fact that I read perhaps thirty messages in the thread and no one objects
>> to ribbons.  Microsoft is changing the design of ribbons in the Office
>> Suite.  They are simplifying them in some way.  In this discussion, some
>> people don't like the change, some people think it should be optional and
>> some people like it.  But in all the messages I read, not one person
>> objected to ribbons themselves.
>>
>> Also, people are more likely to complain if they dislike something.  Of
>> course some people don't like ribbons, but your sample, some friends or
>> people you know, isn't eeven remotely a proper survey from which to draw
>> such conclusions.
>>
>> I assume by saying it is hated, and it was hated that you mean most people
>> hate ribbons.  That is not a properly supported statement.
>> https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Office-365/Outlook-365-Ribbon-etc/t
>> d-p/267706
>>
>> Also, a lot of other programs are nowhere nearly as complex as the programs
>> in the Office Suite.  So, since people don't like change and since there
>> isn't much benefit to switching to ribbons this wasn't done.  You don't
>> know what might have happened if most programs were this complex.  The
>> ribbon allows the user to see a lot more items much more quickly and
>> efficiently.  So your argument about other programs not adopting ribbons
>> is not properly supported as to why this is the case.  More simple
>> programs don't benefit and why change something when there is no benefit
>> are much better explanations than a putative universal or nearly universal
>> hatred of ribbons.
>>
>> I'm saying they are much better explanations without proper evidence
>> supporting any conclusion.  If you can find proper good supporting
>> evidence for your assertion, that's different but as of now, your
>> statements are unsupported and appear to be incorrect.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 3:23 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues
>>
>>
>> It started on Word 2007. It was hated then, it is hated now, and you seldom
>> see any third party software using a Ribbon, even the latest Firefox is
>> using  old style menus.
>>   Just cos they are so dogmatic in not wanting to offer an option when its
>> clearly possible is no reason to accept it.
>>   Brian
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues
>>
>> Hi, Brian V,
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. The ribbon has been around since 2007. I think
>> that's correct but if I'm wrong, someone please jump in and correct me. We
>> have to learn to roll with the punches as they say or get left out in the
>> cold so to speak.
>>
>>
>> Rosemarie
>>
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian
>> Vogel
>> Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 6:19 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 04:36 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
>>
>> Embrace the ribbon,
>>
>> It's been around for over a decade now.  It is the Microsoft standard.  The
>> endless fight against the ribbon makes no sense; learning to work with the
>> computing environment, as presented, does.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: a new modified nv-speech player

Gene
 

Maybe the add-on by itself doesn't have a lot of voices that are available if you run something else along with it.  But as I recall, nothing is explained on the page.  I have almost no choices in voices and I'm just running the add-on.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new modified nv-speech player

Hi.


I grabbed this, and my favorite configuration is the plain Klatt voice, with the pitch set to about 75%. I'm having a reasonably easy time understanding that configuration, with language set to EN-US.




Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 11/2/2018 11:44 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

A few years back nv-access made an improved ESpeak that was called nv-speech player. Since then a few people have greatly improved it! I just tried it a few minutes ago and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like eloquence, sort of, or maybe keynote gold, kind of. There is other stuff on this site which I will not discuss for legal reasons. And please just ignore that other *stuff*. Just focus on the free nv speech player! First, the website with the modded and improved speech player stuff. Direct link.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/

 

Now here is my favorite version of the speech player addon modified by Jason bratcher. Perhaps, with this new speech player, someone can modify its intonations and make a keynote gold speech player voice? And give it more languages?

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/Jason%20Bratcher_speechPlayerInEspeak.nvda-addon

 

more speech player voices.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/voices.7z

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Ian Blackburn
 

Freedom scientific has won for the jewellers tutorial
And going back to Rubens
I don’t know of any third-party software for windows that actually uses them
Other operating systems I had contact with use traditional menus
The ribbon can be navigated but for someone who can’t always remember every keystroke can be tedious finding a command in the ribbons system
Regards Ian

On 3 Nov 2018, at 8:11 am, Brice Mijares <bricemijares@att.net> wrote:

Yes, it would be nice if someone would offer up an audio tutorial on the ribbon. Personally I fine it easier it I can follow along with a audio tutorial.


Re: a new modified nv-speech player

valiant8086
 

Hi.


I grabbed this, and my favorite configuration is the plain Klatt voice, with the pitch set to about 75%. I'm having a reasonably easy time understanding that configuration, with language set to EN-US.




Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com"

<Sent with Thunderbird 52.1.0 portable>
On 11/2/2018 11:44 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Hi,

 

A few years back nv-access made an improved ESpeak that was called nv-speech player. Since then a few people have greatly improved it! I just tried it a few minutes ago and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like eloquence, sort of, or maybe keynote gold, kind of. There is other stuff on this site which I will not discuss for legal reasons. And please just ignore that other *stuff*. Just focus on the free nv speech player! First, the website with the modded and improved speech player stuff. Direct link.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/

 

Now here is my favorite version of the speech player addon modified by Jason bratcher. Perhaps, with this new speech player, someone can modify its intonations and make a keynote gold speech player voice? And give it more languages?

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/Jason%20Bratcher_speechPlayerInEspeak.nvda-addon

 

more speech player voices.

 

http://grossgang.com/tts/speechPlayer%20in%20espeak/voices.7z

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Brice Mijares
 

Yes, it would be nice if someone would offer up an audio tutorial on the ribbon. Personally I fine it easier it I can follow along with a audio tutorial.


notifications in Windows 10 version 1809

Annette Moore
 

Hi, all. Could someone please remind me what the new shortcut key is to cycle through notifications in windows 10 version 1809? thanks so much! Oh, and speaking of notifications, if you find that you aren't receiving them in 1809, here's a link I hope will be helpful. It was for me:


How to fix Action Center notifications not working on Windows 10 version 1809

https://pureinfotech.com/fix-action-center-notifications-not-working-windows-10-1809/


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Gene
 

First, I am not speaking as a moderator and it is inaccurate and incorrect to imply that I am.  I disagreed about ribbons long before I was a moderator and, unless I send a message to the list on a moderation matter and speak as a moderator, I am speaking as a member. 
 
If I were just discussing the subject with one person, I wouldn't keep debating.  What one person thinks in discussion is what one person thinks.  But I'm not going off on you to go off on you..  I am strongly disagreeing and the reason I do is because I don't know how many of other hundreds of people may be reading the comments.  There needs to be a balance that will let people know that ribbons are being used successfully by a lot of blind people so that the negative comments don't discourage learning.  That's why I argue with Brian.  As one person, he may think whatever he likes and I wouldn't keep discussing it.  But messages discussing how bad or difficult to use something is on a large list may discourage use and a lot of blind people are already very disposed against ribbons and don't want to try them. 
 
Remember when the transition to Windows from Dos took place?  What about all the massive resistance to Windows there was?  Where is it now? 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

I don't complain about the ribbons any more because it usually creates
such an intense and useless discussion that the moderator goes off on me
and I almost get mad enough to say something that will get me banned
permanently.



On 11/2/2018 7:19 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
> Um, "people are more likely to complain if they dislike something"...
>
> Well, of course - you wouldn't expect them to complain if they like it, would
> you?
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Saturday 03 November 2018 at 00:14:34, Gene wrote:
>
>> If they are so hated, then see the following discussion and account for the
>> fact that I read perhaps thirty messages in the thread and no one objects
>> to ribbons.  Microsoft is changing the design of ribbons in the Office
>> Suite.  They are simplifying them in some way.  In this discussion, some
>> people don't like the change, some people think it should be optional and
>> some people like it.  But in all the messages I read, not one person
>> objected to ribbons themselves.
>>
>> Also, people are more likely to complain if they dislike something.  Of
>> course some people don't like ribbons, but your sample, some friends or
>> people you know, isn't eeven remotely a proper survey from which to draw
>> such conclusions.
>>
>> I assume by saying it is hated, and it was hated that you mean most people
>> hate ribbons.  That is not a properly supported statement.
>> https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Office-365/Outlook-365-Ribbon-etc/t
>> d-p/267706
>>
>> Also, a lot of other programs are nowhere nearly as complex as the programs
>> in the Office Suite.  So, since people don't like change and since there
>> isn't much benefit to switching to ribbons this wasn't done.  You don't
>> know what might have happened if most programs were this complex.  The
>> ribbon allows the user to see a lot more items much more quickly and
>> efficiently.  So your argument about other programs not adopting ribbons
>> is not properly supported as to why this is the case.  More simple
>> programs don't benefit and why change something when there is no benefit
>> are much better explanations than a putative universal or nearly universal
>> hatred of ribbons.
>>
>> I'm saying they are much better explanations without proper evidence
>> supporting any conclusion.  If you can find proper good supporting
>> evidence for your assertion, that's different but as of now, your
>> statements are unsupported and appear to be incorrect.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 3:23 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues
>>
>>
>> It started on Word 2007. It was hated then, it is hated now, and you seldom
>> see any third party software using a Ribbon, even the latest Firefox is
>> using  old style menus.
>>   Just cos they are so dogmatic in not wanting to offer an option when its
>> clearly possible is no reason to accept it.
>>   Brian
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues
>>
>> Hi, Brian V,
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. The ribbon has been around since 2007. I think
>> that's correct but if I'm wrong, someone please jump in and correct me. We
>> have to learn to roll with the punches as they say or get left out in the
>> cold so to speak.
>>
>>
>> Rosemarie
>>
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian
>> Vogel
>> Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 6:19 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 04:36 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
>>
>> Embrace the ribbon,
>>
>> It's been around for over a decade now.  It is the Microsoft standard.  The
>> endless fight against the ribbon makes no sense; learning to work with the
>> computing environment, as presented, does.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Antony Stone
 

Regarding people more likely to express an opinion when they dislike
something, yes, I agree completely. I guess it's reasonable to assume that's
what Gene meant to say.

However, regarding praise versus criticism, your point that "most people say
little to nothing at all if everything is 'just fine as it is but isn't
exceptional in any way'" is all well and good, but I think it's just as true
to say that "most people say little to nothing at all if everything is 'not
very good but isn't particularly bad in any way'".

In other words, if things are more or less acceptable; only just a bit better
or worse than people expect, would like, or are used to, then they won't say
much, if anything.

But I do think that people praise improvements just as much as they complain
about things getting worse. Internet support forums are not the place to look
for that praise, however - and the clue is in the name - people don't look for
support when they like what they have; they look for support when they have a
problem.

Praise is for more likely to go directly back to the suppliers / developers,
so aside from the "satisfied customer" quotes you see on a lot of websites,
such comments simply don't get publicised on the Internet to the same extent
that the complaints on public forums do.

None of this means it's okay to ignore the people who are saying "this is a
change for the worse", though. Developers can do what they want, but if it's
not what the users want, who wins and who loses as a result?


Antony.

On Saturday 03 November 2018 at 00:25:19, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 07:19 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Um, "people are more likely to complain if they dislike something"...
Well, I interpreted this as, "People are more likely to express an opinion
if they dislike something," which, given my 55 plus years of life
experience, holds true.

While you may get the occasional effusive praise if someone likes
something, most people say little to nothing at all if everything is "just
fine as it is but isn't exceptional in any way."

Having haunted support forums of various types for decades now, you'd be
convinced that nothing ever works as expected and designed if one were to
take the tenor of most posts there as one's only sample set. Things skew
negative in those venues since people are having issues and that's why
they turn to them.
--

Brian
--
"Can you keep a secret?"
"Well, I shouldn't really tell you this, but... no."


Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Ron Canazzi
 

I don't complain about the ribbons any more because it usually creates such an intense and useless discussion that the moderator goes off on me and I almost get mad enough to say something that will get me banned permanently.

On 11/2/2018 7:19 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Um, "people are more likely to complain if they dislike something"...

Well, of course - you wouldn't expect them to complain if they like it, would
you?


Antony.

On Saturday 03 November 2018 at 00:14:34, Gene wrote:

If they are so hated, then see the following discussion and account for the
fact that I read perhaps thirty messages in the thread and no one objects
to ribbons. Microsoft is changing the design of ribbons in the Office
Suite. They are simplifying them in some way. In this discussion, some
people don't like the change, some people think it should be optional and
some people like it. But in all the messages I read, not one person
objected to ribbons themselves.

Also, people are more likely to complain if they dislike something. Of
course some people don't like ribbons, but your sample, some friends or
people you know, isn't eeven remotely a proper survey from which to draw
such conclusions.

I assume by saying it is hated, and it was hated that you mean most people
hate ribbons. That is not a properly supported statement.
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Office-365/Outlook-365-Ribbon-etc/t
d-p/267706

Also, a lot of other programs are nowhere nearly as complex as the programs
in the Office Suite. So, since people don't like change and since there
isn't much benefit to switching to ribbons this wasn't done. You don't
know what might have happened if most programs were this complex. The
ribbon allows the user to see a lot more items much more quickly and
efficiently. So your argument about other programs not adopting ribbons
is not properly supported as to why this is the case. More simple
programs don't benefit and why change something when there is no benefit
are much better explanations than a putative universal or nearly universal
hatred of ribbons.

I'm saying they are much better explanations without proper evidence
supporting any conclusion. If you can find proper good supporting
evidence for your assertion, that's different but as of now, your
statements are unsupported and appear to be incorrect.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 3:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues


It started on Word 2007. It was hated then, it is hated now, and you seldom
see any third party software using a Ribbon, even the latest Firefox is
using old style menus.
Just cos they are so dogmatic in not wanting to offer an option when its
clearly possible is no reason to accept it.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

Hi, Brian V,

I couldn't agree more. The ribbon has been around since 2007. I think
that's correct but if I'm wrong, someone please jump in and correct me. We
have to learn to roll with the punches as they say or get left out in the
cold so to speak.


Rosemarie


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 6:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and ribbon menues

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 04:36 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

Embrace the ribbon,

It's been around for over a decade now. It is the Microsoft standard. The
endless fight against the ribbon makes no sense; learning to work with the
computing environment, as presented, does.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

Don H
 

I believe I am the one that started this thread.  All I asked for was a little help in learning how to use ribbons effectively.  I don't believe I said that they were bad or good just a new trick to teach a old dog like me.  I actually like the challenge of learning something new but in my old age get flustrated a little faster when something seems to be more difficult than it should.


Re: NVDA and ribbon menues

 

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 07:19 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Um, "people are more likely to complain if they dislike something"...
Well, I interpreted this as, "People are more likely to express an opinion if they dislike something," which, given my 55 plus years of life experience, holds true.

While you may get the occasional effusive praise if someone likes something, most people say little to nothing at all if everything is "just fine as it is but isn't exceptional in any way."

Having haunted support forums of various types for decades now, you'd be convinced that nothing ever works as expected and designed if one were to take the tenor of most posts there as one's only sample set.  Things skew negative in those venues since people are having issues and that's why they turn to them.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)