Date   

Re: Changing from JAWS 2018 to NVDA, some general questions

 

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 01:04 AM, Gene wrote:
It's [object navigation] something I think that is best learned by mostly examples, having someone do something rather than by a lot of description.
-
Something upon which we're in complete agreement.

I actually think this is true of all things screen reader related for first-time users of a screen reader.  Descriptions of what to do and what happens are so much less effective than hands-on experience with trying something and seeing what happens, or doesn't happen.

The welcome message for the group includes the following, "Like all screen readers, it is a tool for accessing something else, and really serves no other purpose.  Its function as an accessibility tool is, of course, its reason for being."  It's impossible to discuss a screen reader and its functions meaningfully without direct reference to what you're actually trying to access with it, as that's the only way that screen reader commands come into use.  It's just so much easier to apply to real world examples of things being accessed.

But we have also discussed, and I believe agreed, that it's also important that one develop the habit of knowing in one's own mind what's a Windows command, versus an NVDA command (or other screen reader command), and an application program command.  That definitely makes things easier if and when you start working with another screen reader, as neither Windows or application program commands change regardless of the screen reader in use.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Re: Changing from JAWS 2018 to NVDA, some general questions

Steve Nutt
 

You mean the OSARA plugin.

 

http://www.reaperaccessibility.com will get you started.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: 12 February 2021 21:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Changing from JAWS 2018 to NVDA, some general questions

 

And also with Reaper, to make it work with NVDA you need the Ostara plugin.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: February 12, 2021 1:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Changing from JAWS 2018 to NVDA, some general questions

 

Hello. Reaper does work with NVDA as does Sound Forge. Sampletude however will not work with NVDA. With Sampletude, you still need to use JAWS.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christian Ohrens
Sent: February 12, 2021 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Changing from JAWS 2018 to NVDA, some general questions

 

Hi folks,

I’m thinking about to replace my older JAWS to the newest NVDA build on my new computer which I’ll get next week.

For JAWS I am using several Script packages for some programs and now I want to know if there exists such addons or scripts for NVDA ttoo for the following programs:

Samplitude X5, Sound Forge Pro 14, Reaper.

 

And I’ve also some general questions concerrnning the handling of NVDA:

Are there some functions similar to the touch cursor or JAWS cursor in JAWS?

 

Thank you for your assistance.

Regards

Christian

 


Re: A Note on Settings in General

Louise Pfau
 

Hi Brian.  I just created such a list.  There've been some tweaks that I've done over a long period of time, so I don't remember what the defaults were.  This is particularly true with NVDA.  I know which categories I didn't tweak, but I've recorded all of the current settings for the ones I did.  I hope this is helpful to someone else who's creating a list.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: NVDA goes mad

Kevin Cussick
 

No agreed, Narrator is not the crappy screen reader it used to be it really is not but i just need to be a bit more disciplined and put some time off to play with it.

On 15/02/2021 22:05, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 04:49 PM, Kevin Cussick wrote:
just keep using Nvda. but at some point I really really should play
with Narrator.
-
And I want to emphasize I am in no way proposing that anyone stop using NVDA.
That being said, I don't care what any individual's screen reader of choice happens to be, there's a need to be minimally comptetent with another since there will be occasions where the favorite just doesn't behave well with something.
Unless one's favored/favorite screen reader were to be Narrator, it makes sense for it to be a preferred second choice since it is a part of Windows 10.  You know it's always there to call upon.  And if Narrator is one's favored screen reader, it makes abundant sense for NVDA to be one's chosen second choice.  No one's going to invest in a JAWS license for "every once in a great while/in a pinch" use.
--
Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
/Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out./
      ~ Anton Chekhov


Re: NVDA goes mad

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 04:49 PM, Kevin Cussick wrote:
just keep using Nvda. but at some point I really really should play with Narrator.
-
And I want to emphasize I am in no way proposing that anyone stop using NVDA.

That being said, I don't care what any individual's screen reader of choice happens to be, there's a need to be minimally comptetent with another since there will be occasions where the favorite just doesn't behave well with something.

Unless one's favored/favorite screen reader were to be Narrator, it makes sense for it to be a preferred second choice since it is a part of Windows 10.  You know it's always there to call upon.  And if Narrator is one's favored screen reader, it makes abundant sense for NVDA to be one's chosen second choice.  No one's going to invest in a JAWS license for "every once in a great while/in a pinch" use.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

 

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Re: NVDA goes mad

Kevin Cussick
 

Hi, yes agreed I have said I would do the same and just keep using Nvda. but at some point I really really should play with Narrator.

On 15/02/2021 17:29, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 12:19 PM, Arlene wrote:
Narator is good for getting yu out of a jam.
-
And I'd say more than that.  I really need to start trying to get a lot more up to speed on Narrator (which is about the hundredth time I've said this).  I anticipate it will be making significant inroads over the next 5 years simply because it's a Windows built-in.  Businesses and other large entities love things that they don't need to buy, and that come from "the Microsoft Mothership."
--
Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.
       ~ Brian Vogel


windows 10 Pro - Check for updates - NVDA goes silent in dialog with mouse over

Russell James
 

Greetings,

Using Windows 10 Pro on a desktop
Version 10.0.19042 Build 19042

With NVDA
version 2020.3

Sometimes when I check for updates, after the dialog is presented,  NVDA will announce the last check for updates and then go silent
If I mouse over content in the dialog it remains silent
If I mouse over content outside the dialog it will be spoken.

If I restart NVDA it starts speaking content in the dialog with mouse over

Using a physical mouse connected via USB


While checking the NVDA version I noticed in the menu an entry that indicated install pending update
However, when I activate that entry the menu goes away and nothing seems to happen

When I go to help and check for updates it indicates there are none available

Thank you

Russ

 



Re: NVDA 2020.4 rc1

tim
 

You do end up in something of a gray area that when a insert+t you get explorer. When actually you lost focus and NVDA don't know how to handle it.
Now JFW does tell you when your not in focus and its clueless.

On 2/14/2021 7:55 PM, Don H wrote:
Running NVDA 2020.4 RC1 on a Win 10 20h2 system.  When returning to the desktop after closing something like Thunderbird or MS edge it seems you are not back to the desktop.  Prir to this RC1 when closing edge or thunderbird NVDA would announce desktop and the icon you were on.  Now it says nothing and you have to bab or use other means to get to the desktop.


Re: NVDA goes mad

Hettie <woehler.hettie@...>
 

I did that first of all and it made no difference. The only way was to reinstall nvda.


Hettie

On 2/15/2021 4:18 PM, brice Mijares wrote:
I would have hit control alt N to restart NVDA if this would have happened to me.

On 2/14/2021 12:39 PM, Hettie wrote:
Hi all


NVDA suddenly started talking non-stop. At times it was talking so fast that it kept making funny noises like an old-time vinel record when it got stuck.

It was so frustrating to restart the computer with no normal NVDA. Restarting NVDA did not work either. The last option was to re-install it again as not even the fixing tool was able to restore nvda. That was easier said than done as it was almost impossible to find the folder it is saved in while the babbeling went onand then to find the installation file by pressing N.

It now works properly again. Never experianced this problem before.


Hettie




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Re: NVDA goes mad

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 12:19 PM, Arlene wrote:
Narator is good for getting yu out of a jam.
-
And I'd say more than that.  I really need to start trying to get a lot more up to speed on Narrator (which is about the hundredth time I've said this).  I anticipate it will be making significant inroads over the next 5 years simply because it's a Windows built-in.  Businesses and other large entities love things that they don't need to buy, and that come from "the Microsoft Mothership."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA goes mad

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 02:30 AM, Arlene wrote:
No wonder some people leave Windows and go to I Pad or tablet.
-
And find out, in short order, that other OSes and the software that runs on them have their issues, too.

I honestly can't count the number of service calls I've gotten from "ship jumpers" who did so without a moment's thought, or research, who can't manage what they've elected to jump to at all.

Once you're comfortable with an ecosystem, any one of 'em, think very long and hard before believing that going to another is a solution to all the things you dislike.  The learning curve is shallow, and tedious, and most often very frustrating.  Almost none of us understands how much of what we do "without thinking" under what we're used to using requires having to think things through all over again elsewhere.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA goes mad

Arlene
 

Narator is good for getting yu out of a jam.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Hettie
Sent: February 15, 2021 2:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes mad

 

thanks, I never think of using nirator, will keep it in mind for the future.

 

 

Hettie

 

 

On 2/15/2021 8:40 AM, Felix G. wrote:

> Hello,

> in such cases, a valuable strategy would be to use Narrator to get

> through the rough spots, at least if this happens on Windows 10.

> Best,

> Felix

> Am So., 14. Feb. 2021 um 21:39 Uhr schrieb Hettie <woehler.hettie@...>:

>> Hi all

>> 

>> 

>> NVDA suddenly started talking non-stop. At times it was talking so fast

>> that it kept making funny noises like an old-time vinel record when it

>> got stuck.

>> 

>> It was so frustrating to restart the computer with no normal NVDA.

>> Restarting NVDA did not work either. The last option was to re-install

>> it again as not even the fixing tool was able to restore nvda. That was

>> easier said than done as it was almost impossible to find the folder it

>> is saved in while the babbeling went onand then to find the installation

>> file by pressing N.

>> 

>> It now works properly again. Never experianced this problem before.

>> 

>> 

>> Hettie

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> --

>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.

>> https://www.avg.com

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

 

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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.

https://www.avg.com

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA goes mad

Arlene
 

Well now you got it all solved and you can go about your new day. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Hettie
Sent: February 15, 2021 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes mad

 

Was funny for a while especially when it got the hicups and couldn't stop but then the frustration took over. Smiles.

 

Hettie

 

On 2/15/2021 9:30 AM, Arlene wrote:

Yes, good old Narrator. About NVDA speeding up and getting stuck like an old record. Lol! In all seriousness that’s creepy.   Sorry you went through that kind of frustration. Glad you got it fixed.  That’s craziness.  No wonder some people leave Windows and go to I Pad or tablet.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Felix G.
Sent: February 14, 2021 10:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes mad

 

Hello,

in such cases, a valuable strategy would be to use Narrator to get

through the rough spots, at least if this happens on Windows 10.

Best,

Felix

 

Am So., 14. Feb. 2021 um 21:39 Uhr schrieb Hettie <woehler.hettie@...>:

> Hi all

> NVDA suddenly started talking non-stop. At times it was talking so fast

> that it kept making funny noises like an old-time vinel record when it

> got stuck.

> It was so frustrating to restart the computer with no normal NVDA.

> Restarting NVDA did not work either. The last option was to re-install

> it again as not even the fixing tool was able to restore nvda. That was

> easier said than done as it was almost impossible to find the folder it

> is saved in while the babbeling went onand then to find the installation

> file by pressing N.

> It now works properly again. Never experianced this problem before.

> Hettie

> --

> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.

> https://www.avg.com

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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www.avg.com



 


Re: NVDA goes mad

 

That final line should have had, "there will never be an ideal default for everyone," not, "anyone," as its end.

Any given default might be perfectly peachy for some random anyone.  But it certainly won't be for everyone.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA goes mad

 
Edited

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 11:05 AM, Gene wrote:
I say it is bad because it leads to unanticipated trouble for people and most people don't even know about it in case they would want to change it.
-
Which is true about any blessed default you can name.  There is nothing difficult about the concept that most people (including myself) have no idea of what most of the defaults are for any piece of software they use.

Any one of these has the potential to cause trouble.  It's that simple.

I dislike a lot of defaults, vehemently, but my personal disposition toward any one of them really doesn't make it bad for everyone, or even, perhaps, for the majority.  Defaults must be chosen, and we each like or dislike those choices, but trying to argue that any given switch should be on or off because someone might not know that something might or might not happen is an invalid argument, because it is always true, no matter what the choice.

There is a reason that the charming old saying, RTFM, exists.  You can change that M to H for Help, or D for documentation, or whatever.  But the need for people to consult reference material will never go away, and there will never be an ideal default for everyone.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA goes mad

Gene
 

I don't say a setting is bad just because I don't like it. I say it is bad because it leads to unanticipated trouble for people and most people don't even know about it in case they would want to change it.

I discuss the setting now and then when something comes up where it either causes or is likely to cause a problem. I gave a concrete example of where it can cause a serious ;problem based on my own experience.

If something being discussed raises the issue as in this thread, and I discuss it perhaps three or four months apart, that serves a purpose because a lot of people skip various messages and may not know about the issue. It may save some people from problems, perhaps serious ones.

And in one of the follow-up messages, another list member demonstrates how exactly the opposite of what is intended may occur if you follow a generally followed trouble shooting method, that is, closing and rerunning the browser. a lot of people won't know that changed settings will be automatically saved.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes mad

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 06:30 AM, Gene wrote:
Automatically save on exit is a just plain bad default setting.-
Gene, every default you do not like is not "bad" just because you do not like it. This song is getting very, very old, and has been repeated ad nauseam.

No matter what default is chosen, someone is going to love it, someone is going to hate it, and most aren't going to care until or unless they're caught unaware, regardless of exactly how they're caught unaware.

Every one of your complaints is about how it doesn't suit you. That really doesn't make it bad.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel


A Note on Settings in General

 
Edited

Several recent topics point out just how important it is to have recorded settings you have elected to change that are not default behaviors.  In the case of this group, for NVDA in particular, but the principle is more broad.

Most of us spend a lot of time customizing things to our own personal liking, and that most often comes about by changing settings of one kind or another.  Over time, if you do not keep a record of what you've done in which things, you will eventually forget what those were.  When you need to redo them at a later point on a new computer, or after someone has had to do a completely fresh install of your operating system and application software, it can be maddening to try to re-create the working environment you had.

I have been as guilty of not creating a record as anyone.  But having an MS-Word or Notepad document, where your tweaks by software title or website or whatever had the tweaks made are kept, will come to the rescue of your sanity and sense of composure at some point.  It's the exact when that's unknown.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA goes mad

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 06:30 AM, Gene wrote:
Automatically save on exit is a just plain bad default setting.
-
Gene, every default you do not like is not "bad" just because you do not like it.   This song is getting very, very old, and has been repeated ad nauseam.

No matter what default is chosen, someone is going to love it, someone is going to hate it, and most aren't going to care until or unless they're caught unaware, regardless of exactly how they're caught unaware.  

Every one of your complaints is about how it doesn't suit you.  That really doesn't make it bad.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

Dan Beaver
 

Awesome!  Thank you very much Carlos.  That fixed the issue.  After all the time I have used NVDA I didn't know about that function or how it even worked.


Thanks.


Dan Beaver

On 2/15/2021 10:43 AM, Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías via groups.io wrote:

Hi all.

The option Automatically set system focus to focusable elements is disabled. The solution of this is press NVDA+8.

Regards.

 

 

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Soporte a usuarios, comunidad de NVDA en español.

Web www.nvda.es

Experto certificado en NVDA

 

De: Gene
Enviado: lunes, 15 de febrero de 2021 10:19
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then tabbing

 

I don't know why.  You may want to try using NVDA running from the exe file

to see if the behavior is as expected.  Ifit is, you can try reinstalling

NVDA.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Beaver

Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 8:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and

then tabbing

 

 

 

Nope, I tried to say that I am seeing this behavior on all web pages.

 

 

 

 

NVDA used to perform so that if I issued ctrl+home and then started tabbing

down the page it started moving down the page from the top of the page.  Now

it starts tabbing from where I was when I issued the ctrl+home.

 

 

 

 

This happens in the opposite way for issuing the ctrl+end keystroke.

 

 

 

 

Dan Beaver

 

 

On 2/14/2021 10:51 PM, Gene wrote:

If you are saying that pages act as you expect generally, that may support

my guess that you are discussing a small number of pages where the

underlying page doesn't synchronize with where the brows mode virtual cursor

is when you move around.  I don't know if that is just a problem with NVDA

or what might be done about it.  I don't recall if I saw that behavior with

other screen-readers, having used NVDA for a number of years.  But, as I

said, using k and control k may work around the problem.

 

Gene

-----Original Message----- From: Dan Beaver

Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 7:12 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and

then tabbing

 

 

 

It seems to be all web pages as far as I can tell.  I wondered if it was

specific pages but I can't find any that act as I had previously expected.

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Dan Beaver

 

 

On 2/14/2021 6:45 PM, Gene wrote:

Is this on web pages in general or just this or that page?  There are pages

where browse mode doesn't line up properly with where you are on the page

and tabbing, which seems to move more in conformance to where forms mode, or

the underlying page is when the two diverge, may result in you losing your

place.  I'm not sure if there is a general problem that needs to be

addressed.  But if you want to move by links, use k and control k.  K to

move forward and control k to move back.  You will be where you expect.

 

Gene

-----Original Message----- From: Dan Beaver

Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 5:20 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] an oddity with moving to top or bottom of web page and then

tabbing

 

 

 

I have been bothered with this for a while but finally figured out what was

happening.

 

 

 

 

If I am on a web page and I move down through the page I hear normal info.

However, if I press ctrl+home or ctrl+end to move to the top or bottom of

the page and then press tab or shift+tab to move through the links and other

controls it moves from where I was before issuing ctrl+home or end not from

the top or bottom of the page where ever I am at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, that was a terribly long explanation and probably confusing as all

get out.

 

 

 

 

I expected that once I press ctrl+home and do tabs it would move from the

top of the page through the controls not from where I was when I issued the

ctrl+home.

 

 

 

 

It does the same thing if issuing ctrl+end and then tabbing or

shift+tabbing.

 

 

 

 

Is this something that can be fixed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)

 

 

 

 

 

 


--

Músico (pianista) y ayuda a usuarios ciegos y con discapacidad visual en el uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología. Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musician (pianist) and help to the blind people and with visual disability in use of screen readers and technology. Certified expert in the screen reader NVDA.
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: NVDA 2020.4 rc1

Sanjog Kumawat
 

Hi,

 

I have Windows 10 Pro 20h2 with NVDA 2020.4. When I open Microsoft Edge, I am able to return to desktop when I minimise Edge by the “Minimize” option or “Windows + Down arrow” shortcut key. The behaviour is normal. I do not use Thunderbird.

 

With Best Regards,

Sanjog Kumawat

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