Date   

Re: Clock Addon doesn't save settings, nor does f12 work for time and date

jazzyjennifer
 

i'm not having any problems, with it, its working fine on my end,


fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I don’t know what happened but all of a sudden my keyboard on my tablet doesn’t seem to work with nvda. I press a key, like the windows key, and nvda is completely silent. It is silent when I press any key on the keyboard.  The only way  nvda talks  is if I use the mouse.

I don’t know what I did, but I am so stupid. I am just too dumb to ever be a good nvda user. Is there a way to force the machine to restart? I am feeling completely incompetent.


Re: how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.
Thanks. I Nvda is now able to read progress bars in the background. On both machines.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 6:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

Hi,
Correction to step 5: the actual setting you want is next door - "report background progress bars" checkbox.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

1. Press NVDA+n to go to NVDA menues.
2. arrow down to preferences.
3. arrow right to settings and press enter.
4. From general arrow down to object presentation.
5. tab to progress output and chose how you wont it with arrows.
Nevzat

On 12/21/18, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey guys, Molly here again.

Is there a way to get nvda to announce progress bars in the
background? I want to do other things on my computer, but still want
to hear nvda announce progress bar information.

Thanks.





Re: how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

 

Hi,
Correction to step 5: the actual setting you want is next door - "report background progress bars" checkbox.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

1. Press NVDA+n to go to NVDA menues.
2. arrow down to preferences.
3. arrow right to settings and press enter.
4. From general arrow down to object presentation.
5. tab to progress output and chose how you wont it with arrows.
Nevzat

On 12/21/18, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey guys, Molly here again.

Is there a way to get nvda to announce progress bars in the
background? I want to do other things on my computer, but still want
to hear nvda announce progress bar information.

Thanks.





Re: how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

molly the blind tech lover
 

thanks.


On Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 6:14 pm Nevzat Adil <nevzatadil@... wrote:
1. Press NVDA+n to go to NVDA menues.
2. arrow down to preferences.
3. arrow right to settings and press enter.
4. From general arrow down to object presentation.
5. tab to progress output and chose how you wont it with arrows.
Nevzat

On 12/21/18, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:
> Hey guys, Molly here again.
>
> Is there a way to get nvda to announce progress bars in the background? I
> want to do other things on my computer, but still want to hear nvda
> announce
> progress bar information.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>




Re: how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

 

1. Press NVDA+n to go to NVDA menues.
2. arrow down to preferences.
3. arrow right to settings and press enter.
4. From general arrow down to object presentation.
5. tab to progress output and chose how you wont it with arrows.
Nevzat

On 12/21/18, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey guys, Molly here again.

Is there a way to get nvda to announce progress bars in the background? I
want to do other things on my computer, but still want to hear nvda
announce
progress bar information.

Thanks.





Re: waterfox portable and enabling accessibility support?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Are you saying that the portable version is different to the installed one?
I've not tried it I must admit, but if its still based on the old mozilla code it should just work like the firefox old portable did one might have thought.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] waterfox portable and enabling accessibility support?


The portable version of WF seems to not have any accessibility support
enabled. I tried to fix this by doing the reverse of, turning off
accessibility support in FF's about config settings but nothing works.
The desktop version has partial support enabled, but does anyone know
which Bullion or integer I need to change in order to have full
accessibility support in the portable version? The developer is
extremely hard to get ahold of.




Re: Fw: [espeak-ng] The UK £ sign

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

So, I know people can alter this, but it seems as if only Rupee is set to the correct punctuation level, most other currencies including dollar, yen pound cents etc are all set to all, which creates rather annoying results when reading things with monetary amounts in them with say all.


Anyone care to tell me why they are set to all in this version when they used not to be?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@groups.io>; "NVDA screen reader development" <nvda-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:17 PM
Subject: [nvda] Fw: [espeak-ng] The UK £ sign


Hi folks, is this an error in the latest version of NVDAs defaults? Can I change this and not muck other stuff up?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <llajta2012@gmail.com>
To: <espeak-ng@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [espeak-ng] The UK £ sign


Hi Brian,

this is an issues in NVDA.
The puound £ sign it is included in dictionaries for the emoji on espeak-ng.
NVDA 2018.4 doesn't uses emoji dictionaries from espeak-ng, these files are removed during compiling NVDA.
As you know, NVDA 2018.4 includes all emoji and symbos from Unicode Consortium, and the pound sign appears in the symbols list, but the pronunciation level for this symbol should be changed in NVDA.

Probabily the sign Cents and euro present the same issue.

In speechPlayerInEspeak the problem not exists, the pound sign is in the standard dictionary for english (EN_LIST).

Hope my explanation is clear.

Chris.

In reply to Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io, 19/12/2018 19:18:
I seem to be finding in Espeak NG as used in nvda it is only spoken when
its cursored past. IE not if a line or say all is used. Now iyt cannot
be a punctuation level issue as the old version of Espeak in Speech
player in Espeak when selected as tthe synth seems to be OK. Is it me or
what?
Brian

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Re: I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

molly the blind tech lover
 

I don't know if the insider program is the reason the add on was not working correctly. I'm just making a guess here, since my other machine does not run the insider program and is not experiencing this problem. Or any of the other problems I'm experiencing, for that matter.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Has anyone actually shown that the insider build was the problem with the addon updater not showing correctly.

On 12/21/2018 2:55 PM, Gene wrote:
That's good, since that is a machine you don't want to use for experiments.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2018 2:44 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add
on updates

Well I chose to opt out of the insider program. It was a stupid idea
to join the insider program in the first place and I regret making that choice.

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2018 3:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add
on updates

Why are you in such a hurry to update? Have you read about all the
problems that occurred after Microsoft released its full fall update?
And that was even after the insiders got evaluation versions first.
The problems were so serious that Microsoft withdrew the update from
distribution for something like a month and is now slowly releasing it
again because it doesn't want to flood the Windows universe with the
new update in case there are still unknown problems. and Microsoft
had serious problems with their spring full update as well. I would
never be on an insider program with a machine I intended to use for
other than experimentation and evaluation.

And if your machine is stuck on an old version after you should have
gotten an update, you can manually install the update. You don't need
to be in what is a beta or perhaps even earlier than a beta test
program to update. Given the problems with Microsoft's last two full
updates, if it were me, I would be in no hurry to update my important
machine or machines. I would want my full updates to occur perhaps a
month or two after the update started rolling out. If I were
evaluating or curious and using a machine for that purpose, things
would be different but that is what I would want with a machine I was
using that I want to be reliable and stable.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Friday, December 21, 2018 11:23 AM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates

Actually, this machine never got that windows update. One of the
reasons I joined the insider program was because even though I
received feature updates and security patches, my machine was forever stuck on build 17134.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates

Some less good disc clean up programs have been known to mess with
those files, but I've not encountered it recently, unless it might
have been part of that windows update issue where files went missing
last month in which case there could be other messed up applications
and files on the computer.
Might be worth checking that as well.
I have a friend who found Acronis trashed his hard drive when
simply running his usual task for backing p to another drive.
That turned out to be missing or corrupted files due to a windows 10
update.

I do not know the details but he had to use the recover program from
the makers of ccleaner to get some photos back and then reformat and
reinstall everything again.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> Sent via
blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com
<mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates


Hi,

I’m not sure of the original cause of this, but sounds like something
happened when installing some add-ons that caused manifest to
disappear from some reason.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sarah
k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Sounds like fun. Were you and the team able to trace the cause of this
so that it does not happen toother people some how?

On 20 Dec 2018, at 19:27, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

The problem was traced to incomplete add-on install – somehow, add-on
manifest is missing for some add-ons Molly installed. Fixing this will
require manually removing the affected add-ons via File Explorer and
reinstalling the affected packages.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi. Add on updater is showing up in the manage add ons dialogue. Shall
I send the log to the email address that is listed with the add on updater?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi,

No, don’t reinstall NvDA just yet, as I’d like to see what the log says.
Also, just to really make sure, is Add-on Updater showing up in
add-ons manager (NvDA Menu/Tools/Manage add-ons)?

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi.

The add on updater is not one of the categories in the nvda settings.
I checked. I’ll try to send you the log. Just, wondering, if I perhaps
reinstalled nvda, could that possibly fix things? For whatever reason
this problem only occurs on one of my machines… the one I currently am
so annoyed at right now.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi Molly and others,

Okay, let’s go over one thing at a time:

Add-on Updater problem: another way to find out if the add-on is working is:

1. Go to NvDA menu/Preferences/Settings.
2. See if Add-on Updater is one of the categories.

If Add-on Updater is one of the categories, then I’d like to know
what’s up.
If not, I also would like to know what’s going on.

NVDA log: typically, when people talk about NVDA log, it refers to a
text file where NVDA records information as it runs. The fastest way
to open this “file” is pressing NVDA+F1.

Add-on issues and logs: whenever an issue with an add-on shows up,
unless if it’s an issue I know exactly what’s going on, I always ask
people to restart with add-ons disabled. Then once the problem is
confirmed, I sometimes ask people to restart with add-ons enabled and
ask folks to send the log to developers (me included). Typically, if
an add-on that provides visible user interface services (adding items
to NVDA menu and its submenus) is installed but that interface doesn’t
show up (such as Add-on Updater in your case), I always ask people to
send the log to developers for analysis. As Add-on Updater is my
add-on, I’d like to request just that – please send the entire log to
me in private (press NVDA+F1, copy everything, and paste it as an
email to me privately).

About Windows Insider Program: testing new features is not really the
top reason for existence of Windows Insider Program; rather, the
program is meant to gather feedback from testers before features ship
to the rest of the world. This is the reason why Microsoft reminds
people every week (or almost every week) that Insider Preview builds
are not stable, and features can come and go without notice.

Molly, you’re not alone in stating that you became a Windows Insider
because you’re excited about trying out new goodies here and there;
you’re not the first, nor will be the last person to go through this
phase (trust me, I heard similar stories in the last four years – I
became a Windows Insider shortly after it was first announced in
September 2014). But as beta software (or rather, an operating system
going through constant flux), trying out new things has its drawbacks
too, namely unstable releases from time to time. Specifically, if you
have signed up to receive at least one build a week (fast and skip
ahead rings, which I think is what you’ve done), you’re bound to
encounter issues frequently, hence you’re encouraged to submit
feedback as early as possible. If you want stability but still want to
remain a Windows Insider, I recommend either going with slow ring, or
opt into release preview ring (the former will give you builds known
to be more stable than fast ring; the latter will not upgrade you to
the next big update until it is nearly ready for the public). If you
want strict stability and can’t afford to lose productivity (in other
words, feel uncomfortable with living on the edge now), then perhaps
Windows Insider Program might not be right for you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I joined the insider program because I wanted to check out new
windows features before they are released. It was great at first. But
then I received one unstable build after another. I even had to do a
system restore because windows failed to load properly. I’m going to
opt out of the insider program right now. I can’t deal with all these
problems and honestly, I don’t have time to test beta software. What
was I thinking?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Why did you decide to be in the insider program? That is asking for
bugs and problems and is intended for those who want to test
unreleased versions of Windows for problems. It is something like
beta testing but I'm not sure if the code you are testing is even
considered beta yet.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I’m starting to really dislike this laptop lately. Life was a lot
less complicated when it worked properly.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of Governor staten
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



NVDA key+n, t for tools, then press a twice. You then press enter.
That will definitely do the trick.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf
Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hey guys, Molly here again.

So I have the add on updater installed on my pc. Where do I go to
check for add on updates? Thanks.













Re: I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Don H
 

Has anyone actually shown that the insider build was the problem with the addon updater not showing correctly.

On 12/21/2018 2:55 PM, Gene wrote:
That's good, since that is a machine you don't want to use for experiments.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2018 2:44 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates
Well I chose to opt out of the insider program. It was a stupid idea to join the insider program in the first place and I regret making that choice.
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2018 3:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates
Why are you in such a hurry to update?  Have you read about all the problems that occurred after Microsoft released its full fall update? And that was even after the insiders got evaluation versions first.  The problems were so serious that Microsoft withdrew the update from distribution for something like a month and is now slowly releasing it again because it doesn't want to flood the Windows universe with the new update in case there are still unknown problems.  and Microsoft had serious problems with their spring full update as well.  I would never be on an insider program with a machine I intended to use for other than experimentation and evaluation.
And if your machine is stuck on an old version after you should have gotten an update, you can manually install the update.  You don't need to be in what is a beta or perhaps even earlier than a beta test program to update.  Given the problems with Microsoft's last two full updates, if it were me, I would be in no hurry to update my important machine or machines.  I would want my full updates to occur perhaps a month or two after the update started rolling out.  If I were evaluating or curious and using a machine for that purpose, things would be different but that is what I would want with a machine I was using that I want to be reliable and stable.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>
*Sent:*Friday, December 21, 2018 11:23 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates
Actually, this machine never got that windows update. One of the reasons I joined the insider program was because even though I received feature updates and security patches, my machine was forever stuck on build 17134.
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates
Some less good disc clean up programs have been known to mess with those files, but I've not encountered it recently, unless it might have been part of that windows update issue where files went missing last month in which case there could be other messed up applications and files on the computer.
Might be worth checking that as well.
 I have a friend who found Acronis trashed his hard drive when  simply running his usual task for  backing p to another drive.
 That turned out to be missing or corrupted files due to a windows 10 update.
I do not know the details but he had to use the recover program from the makers of ccleaner to get some photos back and then reformat and reinstall everything again.
 Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates
Hi,
I’m not sure of the original cause of this, but sounds like something happened when installing some add-ons that caused manifest to disappear from some reason.
Cheers,
Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates
Sounds like fun. Were you and the team able to trace the cause of this so
that it does not happen toother people some how?
On 20 Dec 2018, at 19:27, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
The problem was traced to incomplete add-on install – somehow, add-on
manifest is missing for some add-ons Molly installed. Fixing this will
require manually removing the affected add-ons via File Explorer and
reinstalling the affected packages.
Cheers,
Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
Hi. Add on updater is showing up in the manage add ons dialogue. Shall I
send the log to the email address that is listed with the add on updater?
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
Hi,
No, don’t reinstall NvDA just yet, as I’d like to see what the log says.
Also, just to really make sure, is Add-on Updater showing up in add-ons
manager (NvDA Menu/Tools/Manage add-ons)?
Cheers,
Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
Hi.
The add on updater is not one of the categories in the nvda settings. I
checked. I’ll try to send you the log. Just, wondering, if I perhaps
reinstalled nvda, could that possibly fix things? For whatever reason this
problem only occurs on one of my machines… the one I currently am so annoyed
at right now.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
Hi Molly and others,
Okay, let’s go over one thing at a time:
Add-on Updater problem: another way to find out if the add-on is working is:
1. Go to NvDA menu/Preferences/Settings.
2. See if Add-on Updater is one of the categories.
If Add-on Updater is one of the categories, then I’d like to know what’s up.
If not, I also would like to know what’s going on.
NVDA log: typically, when people talk about NVDA log, it refers to a text
file where NVDA records information as it runs. The fastest way to open this
“file” is pressing NVDA+F1.
Add-on issues and logs: whenever an issue with an add-on shows up, unless if
it’s an issue I know exactly what’s going on, I always ask people to restart
with add-ons disabled. Then once the problem is confirmed, I sometimes ask
people to restart with add-ons enabled and ask folks to send the log to
developers (me included). Typically, if an add-on that provides visible user
interface services (adding items to NVDA menu and its submenus) is installed
but that interface doesn’t show up (such as Add-on Updater in your case), I
always ask people to send the log to developers for analysis. As Add-on
Updater is my add-on, I’d like to request just that – please send the entire
log to me in private (press NVDA+F1, copy everything, and paste it as an
email to me privately).
About Windows Insider Program: testing new features is not really the top
reason for existence of Windows Insider Program; rather, the program is
meant to gather feedback from testers before features ship to the rest of
the world. This is the reason why Microsoft reminds people every week (or
almost every week) that Insider Preview builds are not stable, and features
can come and go without notice.
Molly, you’re not alone in stating that you became a Windows Insider because
you’re excited about trying out new goodies here and there; you’re not the
first, nor will be the last person to go through this phase (trust me, I
heard similar stories in the last four years – I became a Windows Insider
shortly after it was first announced in September 2014). But as beta
software (or rather, an operating system going through constant flux),
trying out new things has its drawbacks too, namely unstable releases from
time to time. Specifically, if you have signed up to receive at least one
build a week (fast and skip ahead rings, which I think is what you’ve done),
you’re bound to encounter issues frequently, hence you’re encouraged to
submit feedback as early as possible. If you want stability but still want
to remain a Windows Insider, I recommend either going with slow ring, or opt
into release preview ring (the former will give you builds known to be more
stable than fast ring; the latter will not upgrade you to the next big
update until it is nearly ready for the public). If you want strict
stability and can’t afford to lose productivity (in other words, feel
uncomfortable with living on the edge now), then perhaps Windows Insider
Program might not be right for you.
Cheers,
Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
Well I joined the insider program because I wanted to check out new windows
features before they are released. It was great at first. But then I
received one unstable build after another. I even had to do  a system
restore because windows failed to load properly. I’m going to opt out of the
insider program right now. I can’t deal with all these problems and
honestly, I don’t have time to test beta software. What was I thinking?
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
Why did you decide to be in the insider program?  That is asking for bugs
and problems and is intended for those who want to test unreleased versions
of Windows for problems.  It is something like beta testing but I'm not sure
if the code you are testing is even considered beta yet.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
Well I’m starting to really dislike this laptop lately. Life was a lot less
complicated when it worked properly.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates
NVDA key+n, t for tools, then press a twice. You then press enter. That will
definitely do the trick.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates
Hey guys, Molly here again.
So I have the add on updater installed on my pc. Where do I go to check for
add on updates? Thanks.


Re: I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

molly the blind tech lover
 

Yeah. I want to use both my machines for school. It’ll opt out automatically after the next public release of Windows. Whenever that is.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

That's good, since that is a machine you don't want to use for experiments.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 2:44 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

Well I chose to opt out of the insider program. It was a stupid idea to join the insider program in the first place and I regret making that choice.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

Why are you in such a hurry to update?  Have you read about all the problems that occurred after Microsoft released its full fall update?  And that was even after the insiders got evaluation versions first.  The problems were so serious that Microsoft withdrew the update from distribution for something like a month and is now slowly releasing it again because it doesn't want to flood the Windows universe with the new update in case there are still unknown problems.  and Microsoft had serious problems with their spring full update as well.  I would never be on an insider program with a machine I intended to use for other than experimentation and evaluation. 

 

And if your machine is stuck on an old version after you should have gotten an update, you can manually install the update.  You don't need to be in what is a beta or perhaps even earlier than a beta test program to update.  Given the problems with Microsoft's last two full updates, if it were me, I would be in no hurry to update my important machine or machines.  I would want my full updates to occur perhaps a month or two after the update started rolling out.  If I were evaluating or curious and using a machine for that purpose, things would be different but that is what I would want with a machine I was using that I want to be reliable and stable.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:23 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

Actually, this machine never got that windows update. One of the reasons I joined the insider program was because even though I received feature updates and security patches, my machine was forever stuck on build 17134.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Some less good disc clean up programs have been known to mess with those files, but I've not encountered it recently, unless it might have been part of that windows update issue where files went missing last month in which case there could be other messed up applications and files on the computer.
Might be worth checking that as well.
 I have a friend who found Acronis trashed his hard drive when  simply running his usual task for  backing p to another drive.
 That turned out to be missing or corrupted files due to a windows 10 update.

I do not know the details but he had to use the recover program from the makers of ccleaner to get some photos back and then reformat and reinstall everything again.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates


Hi,

I’m not sure of the original cause of this, but sounds like something happened when installing some add-ons that caused manifest to disappear from some reason.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Sounds like fun. Were you and the team able to trace the cause of this so
that it does not happen toother people some how?

On 20 Dec 2018, at 19:27, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

The problem was traced to incomplete add-on install – somehow, add-on
manifest is missing for some add-ons Molly installed. Fixing this will
require manually removing the affected add-ons via File Explorer and
reinstalling the affected packages.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi. Add on updater is showing up in the manage add ons dialogue. Shall I
send the log to the email address that is listed with the add on updater?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi,

No, don’t reinstall NvDA just yet, as I’d like to see what the log says.
Also, just to really make sure, is Add-on Updater showing up in add-ons
manager (NvDA Menu/Tools/Manage add-ons)?

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi.

The add on updater is not one of the categories in the nvda settings. I
checked. I’ll try to send you the log. Just, wondering, if I perhaps
reinstalled nvda, could that possibly fix things? For whatever reason this
problem only occurs on one of my machines… the one I currently am so annoyed
at right now.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi Molly and others,

Okay, let’s go over one thing at a time:

Add-on Updater problem: another way to find out if the add-on is working is:

1. Go to NvDA menu/Preferences/Settings.
2. See if Add-on Updater is one of the categories.

If Add-on Updater is one of the categories, then I’d like to know what’s up.
If not, I also would like to know what’s going on.

NVDA log: typically, when people talk about NVDA log, it refers to a text
file where NVDA records information as it runs. The fastest way to open this
“file” is pressing NVDA+F1.

Add-on issues and logs: whenever an issue with an add-on shows up, unless if
it’s an issue I know exactly what’s going on, I always ask people to restart
with add-ons disabled. Then once the problem is confirmed, I sometimes ask
people to restart with add-ons enabled and ask folks to send the log to
developers (me included). Typically, if an add-on that provides visible user
interface services (adding items to NVDA menu and its submenus) is installed
but that interface doesn’t show up (such as Add-on Updater in your case), I
always ask people to send the log to developers for analysis. As Add-on
Updater is my add-on, I’d like to request just that – please send the entire
log to me in private (press NVDA+F1, copy everything, and paste it as an
email to me privately).

About Windows Insider Program: testing new features is not really the top
reason for existence of Windows Insider Program; rather, the program is
meant to gather feedback from testers before features ship to the rest of
the world. This is the reason why Microsoft reminds people every week (or
almost every week) that Insider Preview builds are not stable, and features
can come and go without notice.

Molly, you’re not alone in stating that you became a Windows Insider because
you’re excited about trying out new goodies here and there; you’re not the
first, nor will be the last person to go through this phase (trust me, I
heard similar stories in the last four years – I became a Windows Insider
shortly after it was first announced in September 2014). But as beta
software (or rather, an operating system going through constant flux),
trying out new things has its drawbacks too, namely unstable releases from
time to time. Specifically, if you have signed up to receive at least one
build a week (fast and skip ahead rings, which I think is what you’ve done),
you’re bound to encounter issues frequently, hence you’re encouraged to
submit feedback as early as possible. If you want stability but still want
to remain a Windows Insider, I recommend either going with slow ring, or opt
into release preview ring (the former will give you builds known to be more
stable than fast ring; the latter will not upgrade you to the next big
update until it is nearly ready for the public). If you want strict
stability and can’t afford to lose productivity (in other words, feel
uncomfortable with living on the edge now), then perhaps Windows Insider
Program might not be right for you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I joined the insider program because I wanted to check out new windows
features before they are released. It was great at first. But then I
received one unstable build after another. I even had to do  a system
restore because windows failed to load properly. I’m going to opt out of the
insider program right now. I can’t deal with all these problems and
honestly, I don’t have time to test beta software. What was I thinking?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Why did you decide to be in the insider program?  That is asking for bugs
and problems and is intended for those who want to test unreleased versions
of Windows for problems.  It is something like beta testing but I'm not sure
if the code you are testing is even considered beta yet.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@...>

Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I’m starting to really dislike this laptop lately. Life was a lot less
complicated when it worked properly.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



NVDA key+n, t for tools, then press a twice. You then press enter. That will
definitely do the trick.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Hey guys, Molly here again.

So I have the add on updater installed on my pc. Where do I go to check for
add on updates? Thanks.












Re: I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Gene
 

That's good, since that is a machine you don't want to use for experiments.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Well I chose to opt out of the insider program. It was a stupid idea to join the insider program in the first place and I regret making that choice.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

Why are you in such a hurry to update?  Have you read about all the problems that occurred after Microsoft released its full fall update?  And that was even after the insiders got evaluation versions first.  The problems were so serious that Microsoft withdrew the update from distribution for something like a month and is now slowly releasing it again because it doesn't want to flood the Windows universe with the new update in case there are still unknown problems.  and Microsoft had serious problems with their spring full update as well.  I would never be on an insider program with a machine I intended to use for other than experimentation and evaluation. 

 

And if your machine is stuck on an old version after you should have gotten an update, you can manually install the update.  You don't need to be in what is a beta or perhaps even earlier than a beta test program to update.  Given the problems with Microsoft's last two full updates, if it were me, I would be in no hurry to update my important machine or machines.  I would want my full updates to occur perhaps a month or two after the update started rolling out.  If I were evaluating or curious and using a machine for that purpose, things would be different but that is what I would want with a machine I was using that I want to be reliable and stable.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:23 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

Actually, this machine never got that windows update. One of the reasons I joined the insider program was because even though I received feature updates and security patches, my machine was forever stuck on build 17134.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Some less good disc clean up programs have been known to mess with those files, but I've not encountered it recently, unless it might have been part of that windows update issue where files went missing last month in which case there could be other messed up applications and files on the computer.
Might be worth checking that as well.
 I have a friend who found Acronis trashed his hard drive when  simply running his usual task for  backing p to another drive.
 That turned out to be missing or corrupted files due to a windows 10 update.

I do not know the details but he had to use the recover program from the makers of ccleaner to get some photos back and then reformat and reinstall everything again.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates


Hi,

I’m not sure of the original cause of this, but sounds like something happened when installing some add-ons that caused manifest to disappear from some reason.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Sounds like fun. Were you and the team able to trace the cause of this so
that it does not happen toother people some how?

On 20 Dec 2018, at 19:27, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

The problem was traced to incomplete add-on install – somehow, add-on
manifest is missing for some add-ons Molly installed. Fixing this will
require manually removing the affected add-ons via File Explorer and
reinstalling the affected packages.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi. Add on updater is showing up in the manage add ons dialogue. Shall I
send the log to the email address that is listed with the add on updater?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi,

No, don’t reinstall NvDA just yet, as I’d like to see what the log says.
Also, just to really make sure, is Add-on Updater showing up in add-ons
manager (NvDA Menu/Tools/Manage add-ons)?

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi.

The add on updater is not one of the categories in the nvda settings. I
checked. I’ll try to send you the log. Just, wondering, if I perhaps
reinstalled nvda, could that possibly fix things? For whatever reason this
problem only occurs on one of my machines… the one I currently am so annoyed
at right now.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi Molly and others,

Okay, let’s go over one thing at a time:

Add-on Updater problem: another way to find out if the add-on is working is:

1. Go to NvDA menu/Preferences/Settings.
2. See if Add-on Updater is one of the categories.

If Add-on Updater is one of the categories, then I’d like to know what’s up.
If not, I also would like to know what’s going on.

NVDA log: typically, when people talk about NVDA log, it refers to a text
file where NVDA records information as it runs. The fastest way to open this
“file” is pressing NVDA+F1.

Add-on issues and logs: whenever an issue with an add-on shows up, unless if
it’s an issue I know exactly what’s going on, I always ask people to restart
with add-ons disabled. Then once the problem is confirmed, I sometimes ask
people to restart with add-ons enabled and ask folks to send the log to
developers (me included). Typically, if an add-on that provides visible user
interface services (adding items to NVDA menu and its submenus) is installed
but that interface doesn’t show up (such as Add-on Updater in your case), I
always ask people to send the log to developers for analysis. As Add-on
Updater is my add-on, I’d like to request just that – please send the entire
log to me in private (press NVDA+F1, copy everything, and paste it as an
email to me privately).

About Windows Insider Program: testing new features is not really the top
reason for existence of Windows Insider Program; rather, the program is
meant to gather feedback from testers before features ship to the rest of
the world. This is the reason why Microsoft reminds people every week (or
almost every week) that Insider Preview builds are not stable, and features
can come and go without notice.

Molly, you’re not alone in stating that you became a Windows Insider because
you’re excited about trying out new goodies here and there; you’re not the
first, nor will be the last person to go through this phase (trust me, I
heard similar stories in the last four years – I became a Windows Insider
shortly after it was first announced in September 2014). But as beta
software (or rather, an operating system going through constant flux),
trying out new things has its drawbacks too, namely unstable releases from
time to time. Specifically, if you have signed up to receive at least one
build a week (fast and skip ahead rings, which I think is what you’ve done),
you’re bound to encounter issues frequently, hence you’re encouraged to
submit feedback as early as possible. If you want stability but still want
to remain a Windows Insider, I recommend either going with slow ring, or opt
into release preview ring (the former will give you builds known to be more
stable than fast ring; the latter will not upgrade you to the next big
update until it is nearly ready for the public). If you want strict
stability and can’t afford to lose productivity (in other words, feel
uncomfortable with living on the edge now), then perhaps Windows Insider
Program might not be right for you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I joined the insider program because I wanted to check out new windows
features before they are released. It was great at first. But then I
received one unstable build after another. I even had to do  a system
restore because windows failed to load properly. I’m going to opt out of the
insider program right now. I can’t deal with all these problems and
honestly, I don’t have time to test beta software. What was I thinking?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Why did you decide to be in the insider program?  That is asking for bugs
and problems and is intended for those who want to test unreleased versions
of Windows for problems.  It is something like beta testing but I'm not sure
if the code you are testing is even considered beta yet.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@...>

Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I’m starting to really dislike this laptop lately. Life was a lot less
complicated when it worked properly.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



NVDA key+n, t for tools, then press a twice. You then press enter. That will
definitely do the trick.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Hey guys, Molly here again.

So I have the add on updater installed on my pc. Where do I go to check for
add on updates? Thanks.













Re: I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

molly the blind tech lover
 

Well I chose to opt out of the insider program. It was a stupid idea to join the insider program in the first place and I regret making that choice.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

Why are you in such a hurry to update?  Have you read about all the problems that occurred after Microsoft released its full fall update?  And that was even after the insiders got evaluation versions first.  The problems were so serious that Microsoft withdrew the update from distribution for something like a month and is now slowly releasing it again because it doesn't want to flood the Windows universe with the new update in case there are still unknown problems.  and Microsoft had serious problems with their spring full update as well.  I would never be on an insider program with a machine I intended to use for other than experimentation and evaluation. 

 

And if your machine is stuck on an old version after you should have gotten an update, you can manually install the update.  You don't need to be in what is a beta or perhaps even earlier than a beta test program to update.  Given the problems with Microsoft's last two full updates, if it were me, I would be in no hurry to update my important machine or machines.  I would want my full updates to occur perhaps a month or two after the update started rolling out.  If I were evaluating or curious and using a machine for that purpose, things would be different but that is what I would want with a machine I was using that I want to be reliable and stable.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:23 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

 

Actually, this machine never got that windows update. One of the reasons I joined the insider program was because even though I received feature updates and security patches, my machine was forever stuck on build 17134.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Some less good disc clean up programs have been known to mess with those files, but I've not encountered it recently, unless it might have been part of that windows update issue where files went missing last month in which case there could be other messed up applications and files on the computer.
Might be worth checking that as well.
 I have a friend who found Acronis trashed his hard drive when  simply running his usual task for  backing p to another drive.
 That turned out to be missing or corrupted files due to a windows 10 update.

I do not know the details but he had to use the recover program from the makers of ccleaner to get some photos back and then reformat and reinstall everything again.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates


Hi,

I’m not sure of the original cause of this, but sounds like something happened when installing some add-ons that caused manifest to disappear from some reason.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Sounds like fun. Were you and the team able to trace the cause of this so
that it does not happen toother people some how?

On 20 Dec 2018, at 19:27, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

The problem was traced to incomplete add-on install – somehow, add-on
manifest is missing for some add-ons Molly installed. Fixing this will
require manually removing the affected add-ons via File Explorer and
reinstalling the affected packages.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi. Add on updater is showing up in the manage add ons dialogue. Shall I
send the log to the email address that is listed with the add on updater?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi,

No, don’t reinstall NvDA just yet, as I’d like to see what the log says.
Also, just to really make sure, is Add-on Updater showing up in add-ons
manager (NvDA Menu/Tools/Manage add-ons)?

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi.

The add on updater is not one of the categories in the nvda settings. I
checked. I’ll try to send you the log. Just, wondering, if I perhaps
reinstalled nvda, could that possibly fix things? For whatever reason this
problem only occurs on one of my machines… the one I currently am so annoyed
at right now.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi Molly and others,

Okay, let’s go over one thing at a time:

Add-on Updater problem: another way to find out if the add-on is working is:

1. Go to NvDA menu/Preferences/Settings.
2. See if Add-on Updater is one of the categories.

If Add-on Updater is one of the categories, then I’d like to know what’s up.
If not, I also would like to know what’s going on.

NVDA log: typically, when people talk about NVDA log, it refers to a text
file where NVDA records information as it runs. The fastest way to open this
“file” is pressing NVDA+F1.

Add-on issues and logs: whenever an issue with an add-on shows up, unless if
it’s an issue I know exactly what’s going on, I always ask people to restart
with add-ons disabled. Then once the problem is confirmed, I sometimes ask
people to restart with add-ons enabled and ask folks to send the log to
developers (me included). Typically, if an add-on that provides visible user
interface services (adding items to NVDA menu and its submenus) is installed
but that interface doesn’t show up (such as Add-on Updater in your case), I
always ask people to send the log to developers for analysis. As Add-on
Updater is my add-on, I’d like to request just that – please send the entire
log to me in private (press NVDA+F1, copy everything, and paste it as an
email to me privately).

About Windows Insider Program: testing new features is not really the top
reason for existence of Windows Insider Program; rather, the program is
meant to gather feedback from testers before features ship to the rest of
the world. This is the reason why Microsoft reminds people every week (or
almost every week) that Insider Preview builds are not stable, and features
can come and go without notice.

Molly, you’re not alone in stating that you became a Windows Insider because
you’re excited about trying out new goodies here and there; you’re not the
first, nor will be the last person to go through this phase (trust me, I
heard similar stories in the last four years – I became a Windows Insider
shortly after it was first announced in September 2014). But as beta
software (or rather, an operating system going through constant flux),
trying out new things has its drawbacks too, namely unstable releases from
time to time. Specifically, if you have signed up to receive at least one
build a week (fast and skip ahead rings, which I think is what you’ve done),
you’re bound to encounter issues frequently, hence you’re encouraged to
submit feedback as early as possible. If you want stability but still want
to remain a Windows Insider, I recommend either going with slow ring, or opt
into release preview ring (the former will give you builds known to be more
stable than fast ring; the latter will not upgrade you to the next big
update until it is nearly ready for the public). If you want strict
stability and can’t afford to lose productivity (in other words, feel
uncomfortable with living on the edge now), then perhaps Windows Insider
Program might not be right for you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I joined the insider program because I wanted to check out new windows
features before they are released. It was great at first. But then I
received one unstable build after another. I even had to do  a system
restore because windows failed to load properly. I’m going to opt out of the
insider program right now. I can’t deal with all these problems and
honestly, I don’t have time to test beta software. What was I thinking?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Why did you decide to be in the insider program?  That is asking for bugs
and problems and is intended for those who want to test unreleased versions
of Windows for problems.  It is something like beta testing but I'm not sure
if the code you are testing is even considered beta yet.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@...>

Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I’m starting to really dislike this laptop lately. Life was a lot less
complicated when it worked properly.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



NVDA key+n, t for tools, then press a twice. You then press enter. That will
definitely do the trick.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Hey guys, Molly here again.

So I have the add on updater installed on my pc. Where do I go to check for
add on updates? Thanks.













Re: Browse mode and focus

Gene
 

Are you sure you have automatic switching off in NVDA?  I never have browse mode turn off when I have the automatic switching feature off.  I have repeatedly said that automatic switching should not be on by default.  It is not a setting that people should have on unless they know about it and understand exactly how it works. 
 
And to confuse unknowledgeable and learning users more, it automatically switches modes when you move in some ways and it doesn't switch when you move in other ways.  People learning how to use the internet should not have this feature confusing them and making it harder to learn.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I must also add that edit boxes sporadically entering forms mode is a
very big problem for me. At work I have to use a website that contains
an edit box that somehow always enters forms mode and once this
happens, the web site opens a popup dialog somewhere in the end of the
page and brings the focus there. So there is no easy way to go past
that edit box and the entire website becomes unusable. I know, this is
probably not a very screenreader-friendly website, but Jaws manages to
work fine with it somehow. I would say that this problem is one of the
major disadvantages of NVDA compared to Jaws.

On 12/21/18, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
> Hi Felix,
> I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
> browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit boxes
> automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
> It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
> like a complicated issue to fix.
> 1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor moves
> system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We already
> have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 - so it
> seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this. I have
> to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with current NVDA
> behavior, and for those websites that don't work very well, this new
> switch might come very handy.
> 2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not update
> system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
> they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?
>
> Best
> Tony
>
>
> On 12/21/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
>> Just found a ticket on this problem:
>> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/2039
>> Best,
>> Felix
>>
>> Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
>> <constantlyvariable@...>:
>>>
>>> Hello Gene,
>>> exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse mode
>>> cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
>>> would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
>>> position in an internal textual representation fully managed by NVDA
>>> in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
>>> interact with something, focus could then be brought to that object.
>>> The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
>>> looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore not
>>> slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
>>> I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
>>> what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept defined
>>> as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's hard
>>> to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
>>> technical notion in Windows programming.
>>> Best,
>>> Felix
>>>
>>> Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:
>>> >
>>> > I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have the
>>> > technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed.  Are
>>> > you
>>> > talking about being able to move through a web page and have browse
>>> > mode
>>> > just show you the page, as though you had copied it into something
>>> > like
>>> > Notepad?  In that case, you would move, but nothing would ever be
>>> > triggered on the page as you move.  But you seem to be discussing this
>>> > related to a feature that allows a person to see where the blind
>>> > person
>>> > is on the page.  If so, why are you assuming they are related?  Isn't
>>> > there already a setting to turn off this feature, used by sighted
>>> > instructors or others working with a blind person?
>>> >
>>> > Gene
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: Gene
>>> > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
>>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus
>>> >
>>> > I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when NVDA
>>> > review doesn't.
>>> >
>>> > Gene
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> >
>>> > From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>> > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
>>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus
>>> >
>>> > Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when you
>>> > need
>>> > to
>>> > have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser. Remember not
>>> > everyone
>>> > has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may learn something here.
>>> >  Brian
>>> >
>>> > bglists@...
>>> > Sent via blueyonder.
>>> > Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>> > briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> > in the display name field.
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...>
>>> > To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Hello Marcio,
>>> > > I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
>>> > > automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to focus
>>> > > changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure we
>>> > > are
>>> > > on the same page?
>>> > > Best,
>>> > > Felix
>>> > >
>>> > > Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
>>> > > <marcinhorj21@...>:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Hello,
>>> > >> You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found at
>>> > >> the
>>> > >> NVDA
>>> > >> Menu (NVDA+N).
>>> > >> Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic change
>>> > >> or
>>> > >> something like that. I don't know how it should appear because I'm
>>> > >> not
>>> > >> using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> ________________________________
>>> > >> Cheers,
>>> > >> Marcio
>>> > >> ________________________________
>>> > >> Where to find me:
>>> > >> My Yahoo! email
>>> > >> Add me on Skype
>>> > >> Follow me on Twitter
>>> > >> Follow or add me on Facebook
>>> > >> Ask me something on CuriousCat
>>> > >> ________________________________
>>> > >> Phone(s):
>>> > >> (+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
>>> > >> ________________________________
>>> > >> My WhatsApp
>>> > >> ________________________________
>>> > >> Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Hello list,
>>> > >> I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse mode
>>> > >> cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are many
>>> > >> instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
>>> > >> experience
>>> > >> as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events, deciding
>>> > >> whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor movements.
>>> > >> With
>>> > >> unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a browse mode
>>> > >> cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces back a
>>> > >> few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus has
>>> > >> changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than the
>>> > >> user.
>>> > >> The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is
>>> > >> simply
>>> > >> reading, which should not be associated with so many events in the
>>> > >> browser.
>>> > >> If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as also
>>> > >> seen
>>> > >> in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website and
>>> > >> then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard arrow keys
>>> > >> but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
>>> > >> All the best,
>>> > >> Felix
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Re: I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Gene
 

Why are you in such a hurry to update?  Have you read about all the problems that occurred after Microsoft released its full fall update?  And that was even after the insiders got evaluation versions first.  The problems were so serious that Microsoft withdrew the update from distribution for something like a month and is now slowly releasing it again because it doesn't want to flood the Windows universe with the new update in case there are still unknown problems.  and Microsoft had serious problems with their spring full update as well.  I would never be on an insider program with a machine I intended to use for other than experimentation and evaluation. 
 
And if your machine is stuck on an old version after you should have gotten an update, you can manually install the update.  You don't need to be in what is a beta or perhaps even earlier than a beta test program to update.  Given the problems with Microsoft's last two full updates, if it were me, I would be in no hurry to update my important machine or machines.  I would want my full updates to occur perhaps a month or two after the update started rolling out.  If I were evaluating or curious and using a machine for that purpose, things would be different but that is what I would want with a machine I was using that I want to be reliable and stable.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Actually, this machine never got that windows update. One of the reasons I joined the insider program was because even though I received feature updates and security patches, my machine was forever stuck on build 17134.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates

Some less good disc clean up programs have been known to mess with those files, but I've not encountered it recently, unless it might have been part of that windows update issue where files went missing last month in which case there could be other messed up applications and files on the computer.
Might be worth checking that as well.
 I have a friend who found Acronis trashed his hard drive when  simply running his usual task for  backing p to another drive.
 That turned out to be missing or corrupted files due to a windows 10 update.

I do not know the details but he had to use the recover program from the makers of ccleaner to get some photos back and then reformat and reinstall everything again.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates


Hi,

I’m not sure of the original cause of this, but sounds like something happened when installing some add-ons that caused manifest to disappear from some reason.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Sounds like fun. Were you and the team able to trace the cause of this so
that it does not happen toother people some how?

On 20 Dec 2018, at 19:27, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

The problem was traced to incomplete add-on install – somehow, add-on
manifest is missing for some add-ons Molly installed. Fixing this will
require manually removing the affected add-ons via File Explorer and
reinstalling the affected packages.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi. Add on updater is showing up in the manage add ons dialogue. Shall I
send the log to the email address that is listed with the add on updater?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi,

No, don’t reinstall NvDA just yet, as I’d like to see what the log says.
Also, just to really make sure, is Add-on Updater showing up in add-ons
manager (NvDA Menu/Tools/Manage add-ons)?

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi.

The add on updater is not one of the categories in the nvda settings. I
checked. I’ll try to send you the log. Just, wondering, if I perhaps
reinstalled nvda, could that possibly fix things? For whatever reason this
problem only occurs on one of my machines… the one I currently am so annoyed
at right now.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Hi Molly and others,

Okay, let’s go over one thing at a time:

Add-on Updater problem: another way to find out if the add-on is working is:

1. Go to NvDA menu/Preferences/Settings.
2. See if Add-on Updater is one of the categories.

If Add-on Updater is one of the categories, then I’d like to know what’s up.
If not, I also would like to know what’s going on.

NVDA log: typically, when people talk about NVDA log, it refers to a text
file where NVDA records information as it runs. The fastest way to open this
“file” is pressing NVDA+F1.

Add-on issues and logs: whenever an issue with an add-on shows up, unless if
it’s an issue I know exactly what’s going on, I always ask people to restart
with add-ons disabled. Then once the problem is confirmed, I sometimes ask
people to restart with add-ons enabled and ask folks to send the log to
developers (me included). Typically, if an add-on that provides visible user
interface services (adding items to NVDA menu and its submenus) is installed
but that interface doesn’t show up (such as Add-on Updater in your case), I
always ask people to send the log to developers for analysis. As Add-on
Updater is my add-on, I’d like to request just that – please send the entire
log to me in private (press NVDA+F1, copy everything, and paste it as an
email to me privately).

About Windows Insider Program: testing new features is not really the top
reason for existence of Windows Insider Program; rather, the program is
meant to gather feedback from testers before features ship to the rest of
the world. This is the reason why Microsoft reminds people every week (or
almost every week) that Insider Preview builds are not stable, and features
can come and go without notice.

Molly, you’re not alone in stating that you became a Windows Insider because
you’re excited about trying out new goodies here and there; you’re not the
first, nor will be the last person to go through this phase (trust me, I
heard similar stories in the last four years – I became a Windows Insider
shortly after it was first announced in September 2014). But as beta
software (or rather, an operating system going through constant flux),
trying out new things has its drawbacks too, namely unstable releases from
time to time. Specifically, if you have signed up to receive at least one
build a week (fast and skip ahead rings, which I think is what you’ve done),
you’re bound to encounter issues frequently, hence you’re encouraged to
submit feedback as early as possible. If you want stability but still want
to remain a Windows Insider, I recommend either going with slow ring, or opt
into release preview ring (the former will give you builds known to be more
stable than fast ring; the latter will not upgrade you to the next big
update until it is nearly ready for the public). If you want strict
stability and can’t afford to lose productivity (in other words, feel
uncomfortable with living on the edge now), then perhaps Windows Insider
Program might not be right for you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I joined the insider program because I wanted to check out new windows
features before they are released. It was great at first. But then I
received one unstable build after another. I even had to do  a system
restore because windows failed to load properly. I’m going to opt out of the
insider program right now. I can’t deal with all these problems and
honestly, I don’t have time to test beta software. What was I thinking?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Why did you decide to be in the insider program?  That is asking for bugs
and problems and is intended for those who want to test unreleased versions
of Windows for problems.  It is something like beta testing but I'm not sure
if the code you are testing is even considered beta yet.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: molly the blind tech lover <mailto:brainardmolly@...>

Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



Well I’m starting to really dislike this laptop lately. Life was a lot less
complicated when it worked properly.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on
updates



NVDA key+n, t for tools, then press a twice. You then press enter. That will
definitely do the trick.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>  <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I can't find where in nvda I can check for add on updates



Hey guys, Molly here again.

So I have the add on updater installed on my pc. Where do I go to check for
add on updates? Thanks.














Re: Browse mode and focus

Gene
 

Without the technical knowledge to evaluate the idea properly, I'll say that it sounds as though it might be a good one but that it should be off by default.  Too many people wouldn't learn about it and they wouldn't understand why they can't do things such as move somewhere on a page and have the correct options appear, as I've seen happen on the Drop Box lists of your files on the page.  the list changes what files are displayed depending on where you are.  Also, I think this might stop the ability to move somewhere, then click it with the simulated mouse because you wouldn't be on the object.  But for those who take time to learn about it, it might be a good feature.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore not
slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:
>
> I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have the technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed.  Are you talking about being able to move through a web page and have browse mode just show you the page, as though you had copied it into something like Notepad?  In that case, you would move, but nothing would ever be triggered on the page as you move.  But you seem to be discussing this related to a feature that allows a person to see where the blind person is on the page.  If so, why are you assuming they are related?  Isn't there already a setting to turn off this feature, used by sighted instructors or others working with a blind person?
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus
>
> I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when NVDA review doesn't.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus
>
> Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when you need to
> have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser. Remember not everyone
> has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may learn something here.
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus
>
>
> > Hello Marcio,
> > I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
> > automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to focus
> > changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure we are
> > on the same page?
> > Best,
> > Felix
> >
> > Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
> > <marcinhorj21@...>:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found at the NVDA
> >> Menu (NVDA+N).
> >> Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic change or
> >> something like that. I don't know how it should appear because I'm not
> >> using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> Cheers,
> >> Marcio
> >> ________________________________
> >> Where to find me:
> >> My Yahoo! email
> >> Add me on Skype
> >> Follow me on Twitter
> >> Follow or add me on Facebook
> >> Ask me something on CuriousCat
> >> ________________________________
> >> Phone(s):
> >> (+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
> >> ________________________________
> >> My WhatsApp
> >> ________________________________
> >> Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:
> >>
> >> Hello list,
> >> I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse mode
> >> cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are many
> >> instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing experience
> >> as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events, deciding
> >> whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor movements. With
> >> unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a browse mode
> >> cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces back a
> >> few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus has
> >> changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than the user.
> >> The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is simply
> >> reading, which should not be associated with so many events in the
> >> browser.
> >> If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as also seen
> >> in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website and
> >> then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard arrow keys
> >> but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
> >> All the best,
> >> Felix
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>



waterfox portable and enabling accessibility support?

 

The portable version of WF seems to not have any accessibility support enabled. I tried to fix this by doing the reverse of, turning off accessibility support in FF's about config settings but nothing works. The desktop version has partial support enabled, but does anyone know which Bullion or integer I need to change in order to have full accessibility support in the portable version? The developer is extremely hard to get ahold of.


how do I get nvda to read progress bars in the background?

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

Is there a way to get nvda to announce progress bars in the background? I want to do other things on my computer, but still want to hear nvda announce progress bar information.

Thanks.


Re: Browse mode and focus

Tony Malykh
 

I must also add that edit boxes sporadically entering forms mode is a
very big problem for me. At work I have to use a website that contains
an edit box that somehow always enters forms mode and once this
happens, the web site opens a popup dialog somewhere in the end of the
page and brings the focus there. So there is no easy way to go past
that edit box and the entire website becomes unusable. I know, this is
probably not a very screenreader-friendly website, but Jaws manages to
work fine with it somehow. I would say that this problem is one of the
major disadvantages of NVDA compared to Jaws.

On 12/21/18, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io <anton.malykh=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Felix,
I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit boxes
automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
like a complicated issue to fix.
1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor moves
system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We already
have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 - so it
seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this. I have
to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with current NVDA
behavior, and for those websites that don't work very well, this new
switch might come very handy.
2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not update
system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?

Best
Tony


On 12/21/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Just found a ticket on this problem:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/2039
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore not
slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:

I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have the
technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed. Are
you
talking about being able to move through a web page and have browse
mode
just show you the page, as though you had copied it into something
like
Notepad? In that case, you would move, but nothing would ever be
triggered on the page as you move. But you seem to be discussing this
related to a feature that allows a person to see where the blind
person
is on the page. If so, why are you assuming they are related? Isn't
there already a setting to turn off this feature, used by sighted
instructors or others working with a blind person?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when NVDA
review doesn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when you
need
to
have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser. Remember not
everyone
has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may learn something here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


Hello Marcio,
I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to focus
changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure we
are
on the same page?
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:

Hello,
You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found at
the
NVDA
Menu (NVDA+N).
Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic change
or
something like that. I don't know how it should appear because I'm
not
using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.

________________________________
Cheers,
Marcio
________________________________
Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
Add me on Skype
Follow me on Twitter
Follow or add me on Facebook
Ask me something on CuriousCat
________________________________
Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)
________________________________
My WhatsApp
________________________________
Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:

Hello list,
I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse mode
cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are many
instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
experience
as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events, deciding
whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor movements.
With
unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a browse mode
cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces back a
few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus has
changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than the
user.
The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is
simply
reading, which should not be associated with so many events in the
browser.
If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as also
seen
in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website and
then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard arrow keys
but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
All the best,
Felix














Re: Browse mode and focus

Tony Malykh
 

Hi Felix,
I experience all the same problems as you described: rubber band
browse mode cursor jumping back on large webpages, and also edit boxes
automatically entering forms mode even though I didn't ask them to.
It's good to know that this is a known issue, but this indeed seems
like a complicated issue to fix.
1. It seems to me that adding a switch like "browse mode cursor moves
system focus" would be a very useful fix in the short term. We already
have a "caret moves review cursor" switch bound to NVDA+6 - so it
seems to be just a question of adding another switch like this. I have
to say that most of the web sites work fine for me with current NVDA
behavior, and for those websites that don't work very well, this new
switch might come very handy.
2. Do you know how Jaws works around this problem? Do they not update
system focus at all when in browse mode? Or they only update it when
they realise that some other gesture might require updated focus?

Best
Tony

On 12/21/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Just found a ticket on this problem:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/2039
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:51 Uhr schrieb Felix G. via Groups.Io
<constantlyvariable=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Hello Gene,
exactly, that's what I am referring to: A way to move the browse mode
cursor through a page without triggering events in the browser. It
would feel lightning-fast, as it would only involve changing a
position in an internal textual representation fully managed by NVDA
in its own process space. When hitting enter or the space bar to
interact with something, focus could then be brought to that object.
The analogy in the sighted world is that of a touch screen: Just
looking at the contents does not generate events, and is therefore not
slowed down by anything the browser needs to handle.
I am calling those events focus changes because technically that's
what they are. Focus, in this context, is the Windows concept defined
as a control's responsibility for handling keyboard input. It's hard
to describe without leaving a lot of dangling terms as it's a very
technical notion in Windows programming.
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 15:29 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:

I may Have misunderstood what you want to do and I may not have the
technical knowledge to fully understand what you want changed. Are you
talking about being able to move through a web page and have browse mode
just show you the page, as though you had copied it into something like
Notepad? In that case, you would move, but nothing would ever be
triggered on the page as you move. But you seem to be discussing this
related to a feature that allows a person to see where the blind person
is on the page. If so, why are you assuming they are related? Isn't
there already a setting to turn off this feature, used by sighted
instructors or others working with a blind person?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

I suspect that the JAWS cursor may see the web page text when NVDA
review doesn't.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus

Probably not, but if you can explain a little more clearly when you need
to
have it as you describe then we might be a bit wiser. Remember not
everyone
has Jaws or uses all if its features, so we may learn something here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browse mode and focus


Hello Marcio,
I could only find checkboxes dealing with the conditions for
automatically switching to focus mode, but nothing related to focus
changes. Those are completely different concepts. Are you sure we are
on the same page?
Best,
Felix

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb marcio via Groups.Io
<marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>:

Hello,
You can configure it through the Settings, which can be found at the
NVDA
Menu (NVDA+N).
Search for browse mode, then uncheck the boxes on automatic change
or
something like that. I don't know how it should appear because I'm
not
using NVDA in English, but I hope it can help you somehow.

________________________________
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Marcio
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Em 21/12/2018 05:53, Felix G. escreveu:

Hello list,
I'd like to ask how to keep focus from following the browse mode
cursor. While this behavior may often be desirable, there are many
instances in which it unnecessarily slows down the browsing
experience
as NVDA needs to constantly keep track of focus events, deciding
whether or not they are related to browse mode cursor movements.
With
unfortunate timing, NVDA sometimes fails to associate a browse mode
cursor action with its corresponding focus event and bounces back a
few lines or switches to forms mode because it thinks focus has
changed asynchronously on behalf of the website rather than the
user.
The sighted world analogy of moving the browse mode cursor is simply
reading, which should not be associated with so many events in the
browser.
If anyone would like to try out how the other behavior, as also seen
in JAWS, would feel in terms of speed: Go to a complex website and
then navigate in browse mode, but not using the standard arrow keys
but instead the review cursor (numpad 7 and numpad 9).
All the best,
Felix