Date   

Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

One instance where this happens reliably is when opening discord and it runs the updater. The last syllable of the word "updater" always crackles, or breaks up. I would get you a recording, but I am unable to get a loopback recording that is faithful to what I am hearing. I tried, and the quality was many times worse than the issue I actually had. I don't know whether this is the fault of the driver or Audacity.


I've also noticed some slurring on consonants when using Windows 1Core voices, if you think that might be relevant.

On 6/08/2020 3:29 pm, Tyler Spivey wrote:
This is a known problem in my circle across synths.
I suspect this is due to speech refactor. Regardless, it would be
helpful if you could get a sentence or something where this occurs,
then report an issue if you can get it to happen reliably. This is the
hard part.
eSpeak is one of the core drivers, so NV Access might consider the issue
as worth looking into if reported against that.

On 8/5/2020 9:49 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
So I just finally decided to brave the Python 3 hurdle, and updated from
2019.2.1 to 2020.2. I've updated the addons I could and wanted to keep,
and they're both working fine.


I am, however, having an odd little issue with the synth's speech. I'm
using ESpeak NG, and the latest NVDA. I'm on Windows 10.

My issue is that occasionally, most often at the ends of sentences and
on the word image in the context of that being an object, the speech
will break up slightly, for a brief but noticeable fraction of a second.
It happens irregularly, and I don't know what to do to fix it. I asked
on a Discord server I'm a member of, and someone there told me to switch
audio output from Microsoft Sound Mapper to my speakers/headphones. I
did this, but it hasn't helped.


I've also noticed a slight but noticeable lag when deleting characters,
and in single-letter navigation. In the latter, It takes most of a
second before NVDA announces the item the cursor has moved to after the
letter was pressed.


Any help regarding these issues would be sincerely appreciated.




Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

molly the blind tech lover
 

I've noticed that too. In fact, when my tablet was installing updates the
other day I used object navigation to check the progress.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 8:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

One case where you really seem to need it, is in Windows update settings.

If you have some updates that want to download, the only way you can find
out if a particular update is downloading, installing, pending install,
awaiting restart, or waiting to download, is to use object nav.
Simple review just won't tell you that.

Luke


Re: Unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time

Gene
 

Thanks. I'll keep track of it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] unnecessaruy verbiage that wastes my time


Hi Gene,

Here is our issue for exactly what you are describing: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10826

Do feel free to subscribe to that for updates on progress. There is a link in that issue to https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/groups/#multiple-images-conveying-a-single-piece-of-information which gives more information on exactly what figures are with some examples.

So yes, a way of disabling that is a good idea. I don't have a timeline just now though.

Quentin.


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:34 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I really hate unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time and tells me nothing
of any value.

I've recently been using the beta version of NVDA. I havedn't gotten the
production version since I've been using it so little. But one thing that
caught my attention is the announcement of figure and out of figure on web
pages. What possible value is there to this? I don't care if something is
a figure in structure, whatever that is, evidently some sort of visual
formatting. Every time I hear these words, it wastes a little bit of time
and distractingly clutters the text. and I see no way to turhn this off in
the document formatting options. I turn off the other nonsense such as bloc
quote announcement. I turn off almost everything. If new formatting
information is added, there should be a way to turn it off.

And why are some of these announcements on by default? People would never
put up with a human reader announcing all this clutter. How many users of
NVDA ever learn enough to know that they can turn all these announcements
off?

Gene








--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Gene,

Here is our issue for exactly what you are describing: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10826

Do feel free to subscribe to that for updates on progress.  There is a link in that issue to https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/groups/#multiple-images-conveying-a-single-piece-of-information which gives more information on exactly what figures are with some examples.

So yes, a way of disabling that is a good idea.  I don't have a timeline just now though.

Quentin.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:34 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I really hate unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time and tells me nothing
of any value.

I've recently been using the beta version of NVDA.  I havedn't gotten the
production version since I've been using it so little.  But one thing that
caught my attention is the announcement of figure and out of figure on web
pages.  What possible value is there to this?  I don't care if something is
a figure in structure, whatever that is, evidently some sort of visual
formatting.  Every time I hear these words, it wastes a little bit of time
and distractingly clutters the text.  and I see no way to turhn this off in
the document formatting options.  I turn off the other nonsense such as bloc
quote announcement.  I turn off almost everything.  If new formatting
information is added, there should be a way to turn it off.

And why are some of these announcements on by default?  People would never
put up with a human reader announcing all this clutter.  How many users of
NVDA ever learn enough to know that they can turn all these announcements
off?

Gene






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

George McCoy
 

I use object navigation with the Super Antispyware program.

The program has focus issues that prevent the tab and shift tab keys from working at times and also prevent usable routing of the mouse.


On 8/6/2020 11:07 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Hello All,

          This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head around.  My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc. where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it travels when you do.

           I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

           If you feel so inclined, please share.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Luke Davis
 

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Problem being, I was told how to turn off enhancements yesterday, but when I followed those instructions, I found that the enhancements were already turned
off!
Not that it's likely to do anything good, but have you tried turning it on just for kicks and giggles? That's probably what I would have done.

Everybody says to turn it off and things will get better, it's already off, let's turn it on and see what happens.

Luke


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Luke Davis
 

One case where you really seem to need it, is in Windows update settings.

If you have some updates that want to download, the only way you can find out if a particular update is downloading, installing, pending install, awaiting restart, or waiting to download, is to use object nav.
Simple review just won't tell you that.

Luke


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Luke Davis
 

On Thu, 6 Aug 2020, Brian Vogel wrote:

dealing with rolling back updates to drivers, before doing so.All of the above being said, and meant, I have never had a driver update that was supplied by
the computer's manufacturer (or the sound card's manufacturer) that killed a device when applied.
I have. There was a Realtech driver that had a bad interaction with one of my HP laptops under early versions of Windows 10.

I forget how I managed to rewind that one--may have needed sighted help, or may have used one of my little Behringer UCA202 USB sound interfaces that I have around for audio work--but I spent a year or so preventing any sound driver updates from applying to that system until I thought it was likely they had resolved whatever problem.

It hasn't been an issue since, but every time I see that Windows is updating anything from Realtech, I'm on the edge of my seat until the system comes back up talking.

Luke


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I use object navigation when I am doing a virus scan and want to read the progress information.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hello All,

          This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head around.  My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc. where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it travels when you do.

           I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

           If you feel so inclined, please share.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Gene
 

That's true and I didn't state the matter accurately regarding JAWS. At the same time, using a mouse is a matter of a sighted person seeing what is on screen and moving to it. That isn't the same as object navigation. I'm not trying to belabor the point. I'm saying that they are very different kinds of movement.

I don't know if you want to respond but I probably won't respond again simply because I don't want to turn this into a long debate. I hope you see my point. I would compare screen review in NVDA to a sighted person moving with a mouse, not object navigation.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 6:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
Nope - let's not confuse screen review with JAWS cursor please. Screen review is limited to the foreground window, whereas JAWS cursor can be used to navigate anywhere.
Cheers,
JOseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Jackie said in part:
perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse.
My comment:
What you do with your mouse is not object navigation. It is screen review but using the mouse instead of review mode. I wrote what I did because it is important not to conflate screen-review, whether using review mode in NVDA or the mouse, with object navigation.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
Jackie didn't talk about screen review at all - she talked about the mouse.
The original question didn't specify screen review at all - Brian wanted to know places in which object navigation might be useful in obtaining information (for the record, Settings app example is one place where screen review cannot be used at all).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

But the way you move is often different when using screen review and object navigation and there are times when you get little or no useful information one way and you do with the other. Also, you may get very different results such as in Notepad. If you use the review commands such as 7 and 9 when in object navigation mode, you can read an entire document that way because the opened document is one single object, I can open a hundreds of page document and move through the entire document. Using screen review, I am just reviewing the one screen.

It is important to know that these ways of moving are different.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hi,
Nope - let's not confuse screen review with JAWS cursor please. Screen review is limited to the foreground window, whereas JAWS cursor can be used to navigate anywhere.
Cheers,
JOseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Jackie said in part:
perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse.
My comment:
What you do with your mouse is not object navigation. It is screen review but using the mouse instead of review mode. I wrote what I did because it is important not to conflate screen-review, whether using review mode in NVDA or the mouse, with object navigation.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
Jackie didn't talk about screen review at all - she talked about the mouse.
The original question didn't specify screen review at all - Brian wanted to know places in which object navigation might be useful in obtaining information (for the record, Settings app example is one place where screen review cannot be used at all).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

But the way you move is often different when using screen review and object navigation and there are times when you get little or no useful information one way and you do with the other. Also, you may get very different results such as in Notepad. If you use the review commands such as 7 and 9 when in object navigation mode, you can read an entire document that way because the opened document is one single object, I can open a hundreds of page document and move through the entire document. Using screen review, I am just reviewing the one screen.

It is important to know that these ways of moving are different.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

I've tried using this for years. I can read stuff, but I was hoping this could be a really great accessibility tool. But manipulating the mouse with these commands is extremely tiresome, jumping the mouse to whatever position. Where can I listen to some audio tutorials about this?


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Gene
 

Jackie said in part:
perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse.
My comment:
What you do with your mouse is not object navigation. It is screen review but using the mouse instead of review mode. I wrote what I did because it is important not to conflate screen-review, whether using review mode in NVDA or the mouse, with object navigation.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
Jackie didn't talk about screen review at all - she talked about the mouse. The original question didn't specify screen review at all - Brian wanted to know places in which object navigation might be useful in obtaining information (for the record, Settings app example is one place where screen review cannot be used at all).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

But the way you move is often different when using screen review and object navigation and there are times when you get little or no useful information one way and you do with the other. Also, you may get very different results such as in Notepad. If you use the review commands such as 7 and 9 when in object navigation mode, you can read an entire document that way because the opened document is one single object, I can open a hundreds of page document and move through the entire document. Using screen review, I am just reviewing the one screen.

It is important to know that these ways of moving are different.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hi,
Jackie didn't talk about screen review at all - she talked about the mouse. The original question didn't specify screen review at all - Brian wanted to know places in which object navigation might be useful in obtaining information (for the record, Settings app example is one place where screen review cannot be used at all).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

But the way you move is often different when using screen review and object navigation and there are times when you get little or no useful information one way and you do with the other. Also, you may get very different results such as in Notepad. If you use the review commands such as 7 and 9 when in object navigation mode, you can read an entire document that way because the opened document is one single object, I can open a hundreds of page document and move through the entire document. Using screen review, I am just reviewing the one screen.

It is important to know that these ways of moving are different.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Sarah k Alawami
 

No. Tab into the settings you want to change then use object nav to see what you might or might not have missed, for example, the version of the definitions you are running, what the label is on a volume slider , etc.

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On 6 Aug 2020, at 15:29, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:11 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
One context where I use object navigation is Windows 10 Settings (Windows+I) where you must use object navigation to read certain information.
-
Joseph, would you mind offering a little bit more detail?  I can tab out of the search box in Settings then use the arrow keys to move around the grid of the various settings.  I can use right arrow to go from beginning to end and when I hit the end (Update & Security) right arrow stops working and left arrow works backward.  I can also use down/up arrow if there is an item below/above the one I'm on.  If I use object navigation to traverse the list (as it's treated as a list in object navigation) what I'm hearing is exactly what I'm hearing if I'm arrowing around.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing, as in what the "certain information" you've made reference to.  In my case, when moving about, I'm getting the title of the specific setting as well as its numeric position in the list.  This is a perfect example of where I think I may be missing something that can be achieved via object navigation.  For each item in the list of settings, after its title is a bit of descriptive text, e.g., for System, the first settings list item, it reads, "Display, sound, notifications, power," in small text afterward.  I virtually never actually read these, as it's the title of the settings I'm about to open that interests me, but it is there.  I'm wondering if that may be what you're talking about.
 
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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I already have Asus Live Update installed. It runs in the background, right? It should have been doing its thing during the whole year I've had this computer, right?

On 7/08/2020 9:05 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 06:43 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
X507UAR
-
Support Page:  https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ASUS-Laptop-X507UA/HelpDesk_download/

When I select the what's noted above in the CPU/BIOS dropdown, along with Windows 10 for the OS, there are a number of very recent updates, particularly recent is the BIOS/UEFI update from June of this year.  The most recent Audio driver is noted as being from August 2019.

There is also a download link for a utility called ICESound (that comes in a ZIP file) from February 2020 that is described: It is intelligent audio enhancement software that improves the audio quality in sound experiences on laptops.

Most importantly, Asus has a system updater utility, Asus Live Update, that checks for all the device driver and other updates that are applicable to your computer, and when these are provided by the computer's manufacturer I strongly recommend that they be used.  They make keeping all the essentials for your computer current much more easily than anything else will.  I'd download and install that and let it do its thing as soon as is reasonably possible.  I suspect you'll have a bunch of things identified as needing updates.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 06:43 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
X507UAR
-
Support Page:  https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ASUS-Laptop-X507UA/HelpDesk_download/

When I select the what's noted above in the CPU/BIOS dropdown, along with Windows 10 for the OS, there are a number of very recent updates, particularly recent is the BIOS/UEFI update from June of this year.  The most recent Audio driver is noted as being from August 2019.

There is also a download link for a utility called ICESound (that comes in a ZIP file) from February 2020 that is described: It is intelligent audio enhancement software that improves the audio quality in sound experiences on laptops.

Most importantly, Asus has a system updater utility, Asus Live Update, that checks for all the device driver and other updates that are applicable to your computer, and when these are provided by the computer's manufacturer I strongly recommend that they be used.  They make keeping all the essentials for your computer current much more easily than anything else will.  I'd download and install that and let it do its thing as soon as is reasonably possible.  I suspect you'll have a bunch of things identified as needing updates.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Gene
 

But the way you move is often different when using screen review and object navigation and there are times when you get little or no useful information one way and you do with the other. Also, you may get very different results such as in Notepad. If you use the review commands such as 7 and 9 when in object navigation mode, you can read an entire document that way because the opened document is one single object, I can open a hundreds of page document and move through the entire document. Using screen review, I am just reviewing the one screen.

It is important to know that these ways of moving are different.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




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Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

System Model: VivoBook 15_ASUS Laptop X507UAR

I scrolled through the pages but couldn't find my sound driver listed, and it said there were no problems found.


On 7/08/2020 7:49 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:38 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
The make is Asus and I don't know off the top of my head what the model is.
-
Unfortunately, then, I'm stuck.  There are, literally, thousands of Asus computer models, and without the specific model it's impossible to determine what the most recent drivers Asus has for a given computer are.

The only way I know of that you might be able to get the model number, as what's provided varies by maker, is using the DXDIAG command.  Hit Winkey+R, enter DXDIAG in the open edit box, then hit Enter.  You'll get a message about needing to connect to the internet to check certain things which it's fine to OK, then after about 15-30 seconds a window will pop up with the title DirectX Diagnostic Tool and it is open to its System tab.  In that tab, what's shown to the right of the label System model is the model.  There is also an Sound tab where the driver information for your sound device (usually output device, e.g., speakers/headphones) is shown.  What's important is the Date shown for the sound driver since you'd be checking on your computer's Drivers & Software page to see if the driver they offer is newer than what you have (also make a note of the version number, too, as there are times when an updated package is released, but the driver in it is the same version as an earlier package).

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 06:35 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
You can’t use keyboard commands to look at various system information displayed on that screen – you must use object navigation to read them.
-
Thank you for this specific example.   Again, this is very handy for me to have as I now have a specific location where playing with object navigation gets me a result I cannot get otherwise, and I've been told what that result would be.  I just went through the list of items near the top of the About pane and got "status green" for each after it was read, and had no idea of exactly how I was supposed to (or even if I could) get to that information via NVDA.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde