Date   

Re: Want to upgrade computer

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have just been sniffing around the Microsoft pages and it seems windows 7 will be no longer supported mid 2020, however just like XP that does not mean it will stop working. I was also dismayed to learn that many builds of Windows 10 are not being supported
Even Office 2010 is going.
I tend to feel with Windows 10 they need to find a better model to follow. It breaks so many things that I moved back out of ten.

If they will not support older 10 series builds with security updates after just about a year or so, it seems a crazy situation to have for the home user to me.
Brian.

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10? What if the machine is a 32bit machine?

Also, what version of Windows is currently being run? You may just have minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year. Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion. So my question is, why do you want to upgrade? If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave things as they are.

Gene
----- Original message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".

2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have 64-
bit Windows.

3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum Specs
for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".

Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:

I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough for
normal windows 10 user?
--
This sentence contains exacly three erors.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: New nvda version

Antony Stone
 

Assuming that the text you wrote wasn't what the error message said, what did
it say?

Also, please consider using "-- " (dash dash space) as the separator between
the useful part of your emails and the signature text below - it's much more
compatible with most mail clients.

Thanks,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 15:21:13, Robert Doc Wright godfearer wrote:

Mine gave me an error.
***
Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.
the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if you
get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't you!
****
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 3:31 AM
Subject: [nvda] New nvda version

My nvda updated this morning. It seems to be just a small bug fix.
Brian
--
"Life is just a lot better if you feel you're having 10 [small] wins a day
rather than a [big] win every 10 years or so."

- Chris Hadfield, former skiing (and ski racing) instructor

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: New nvda version

Robert Mendoza
 

Yes, Brian

2018.4.1
This release fixes a crash at start up if NVDA's user interface language is set to Aragonese. (

On 1/14/2019 6:31 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
My nvda updated this morning. It seems to be just a small bug fix.
Brian

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Re: Want to upgrade computer

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Personally and I'm sure there will be as many answers as there are people, I'd go for 8 meg of Ram, I have a machine with 4meg at our studio and it has the tendency to hiccup when writing audio files.
Of course you need to start with what it is you want to do. If its browse a few web sites, email and listen to the odd audio stream or file you can get away with very underpowered gear. Sadly the way software is being built now seems to suggest that its using more resources than it needs to, but then, we cannot influence that.

Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "farhan israk" <fahim.net.2014@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:16 AM
Subject: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough for
normal windows 10 user?



Re: New nvda version

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

Mine gave me an error.
***
Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.
the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if you get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't you!
****

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 3:31 AM
Subject: [nvda] New nvda version


My nvda updated this morning. It seems to be just a small bug fix.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.



Re: Want to upgrade computer

Gene
 

But as one of the answers said on the page I linked to, for more memory intensive activities, it may not run very well, but for typical activities, it does.  I'm paraphrasing but that's the sense of it.  My disagreement is that you said to be sure its 64 bit Windows and I'm saying that, while that makes sense for 64bit machines with reasonable memory, those with 32bit machines don't have to give up their machines and they can run 32bit Windows 10 unless they use memory intensive programs that a lot of people don't use.  They should have 4gb of RAM.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer

Oh, I do not dispute that 32-bit Windows runs much better in limited memory
than 64-bit Windows does.

Given a 64-bit machine with 2 Gbytes of RAM, running a 32-bit edition of
Windows on it will perform better than running a 64-bit edition of the same
version of Windows.

However, I also believe that running a 64-bit edition of Windows on a machine
with 8 Gbytes of RAM will perform better than a 32-bit edition running in 3
Gbytes (even if the machine itself contains 8 Gbytes).

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 13:39:48, Gene wrote:

> I wasn't disputing that.  I had the impression that Windows 10 doesn't use
> all 4GB, but a little less.  I don't think this is because of Windows 10
> per se.  I think it has to do with how much memory 32gb Windows machines
> can address.  Regardless, the article I sent supports my position.
>
> Also, though companies do stupid things at times, it would be illogical and
> damaging for Microsoft to release a 32 bit version of Windows 10 that runs
> poorly on 32bit Windows machines.  It would erode the confidence of those
> who upgraded and reduce goodwill toward the company.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Antony Stone
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 6:29 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
>
>
> However see
> https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Windows-only-show-about-3-5-GB-of-
> my-4-GB-of-RAM (linked in the list at the bottom of your article) to
> confirm my opinion that a 32-bit version of Windows will only use 3Gbytes
> (or 3.2Gbytes, as stated in the article).
>
> Antony.
>
> On Monday 14 January 2019 at 13:03:19, Gene wrote:
> > This page supports my view.
> > https://www.quora.com/Is-Windows-10-advisable-with-4-GB-of-RAM
> > the first two answers on the page are written by people using 32bit
> > Windows 10.  The second two answers are not clear responses and we don't
> > know what bit version of Windows 10 they are addressing at which times
> > or if they are making a proper and clear distinction in their answers.
> > But those who answered the question properly support my view.
> >
> > Gene
> > ----- Orignal Message -----
> >
> > From: Gene
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:51 AM
> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
> >
> >
> > I doubt what you are saying is correct.  Its true that 32bit Windows is
> > limited in memory access, as you say.  But at the same time, 32 bit
> > versions of Windows require far less memory and I very much doubt that
> > Windows 10 is much more, if at all memory intensive than Windows 7 or
> > Windows 8.  Memory needs for 32bit Windows are dramatically less than for
> > 64bit.  I don't know if this is true, but the limitation may make Windows
> > 10 run less efficiently if a very memory intensive program is being used.
> > But for typical uses, I doubt there is a problem.
> >
> > All of which may have no bearing on the current situation because the
> > computer may be a 64 bit computer and the version of Windows that may be
> > upgraded to may well be 64bit.  But for anyone who has a 32bit computer
> > who is following the thread, I think this point needs further discussion.
> >
> > Gene
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Antony Stone
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:37 AM
> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
> >
> >
> > If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
> > hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.
> >
> > This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
> > alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
> > unusable RAM.
> >
> > Antony.
> >
> > On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:
> > > Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10?  What if the machine is a
> > > 32bit machine?
> > >
> > > Also, what version of Windows is currently being run?  You may just
> > > have minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you
> > > a year. Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it
> > > will, but some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones
> > > after an imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion.  So my question is,
> > > why do you want to upgrade?  If the reason isn't pressing, you might
> > > want to leave things as they are.
> > >
> > > Gene
> > > ----- Original message -----
> > >
> > > From: Antony Stone
> > > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
> > > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".
> > >
> > > 2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you
> > > have 64- bit Windows.
> > >
> > > 3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum
> > > Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > Antony.
> > >
> > > On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
> > > > I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram
> > > > enough for normal windows 10 user?

--
I thought of going into banking, until I lost interest.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: Want to upgrade computer

Antony Stone
 

Oh, I do not dispute that 32-bit Windows runs much better in limited memory
than 64-bit Windows does.

Given a 64-bit machine with 2 Gbytes of RAM, running a 32-bit edition of
Windows on it will perform better than running a 64-bit edition of the same
version of Windows.

However, I also believe that running a 64-bit edition of Windows on a machine
with 8 Gbytes of RAM will perform better than a 32-bit edition running in 3
Gbytes (even if the machine itself contains 8 Gbytes).

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 13:39:48, Gene wrote:

I wasn't disputing that. I had the impression that Windows 10 doesn't use
all 4GB, but a little less. I don't think this is because of Windows 10
per se. I think it has to do with how much memory 32gb Windows machines
can address. Regardless, the article I sent supports my position.

Also, though companies do stupid things at times, it would be illogical and
damaging for Microsoft to release a 32 bit version of Windows 10 that runs
poorly on 32bit Windows machines. It would erode the confidence of those
who upgraded and reduce goodwill toward the company.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 6:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


However see
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Windows-only-show-about-3-5-GB-of-
my-4-GB-of-RAM (linked in the list at the bottom of your article) to
confirm my opinion that a 32-bit version of Windows will only use 3Gbytes
(or 3.2Gbytes, as stated in the article).

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 13:03:19, Gene wrote:
This page supports my view.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Windows-10-advisable-with-4-GB-of-RAM
the first two answers on the page are written by people using 32bit
Windows 10. The second two answers are not clear responses and we don't
know what bit version of Windows 10 they are addressing at which times
or if they are making a proper and clear distinction in their answers.
But those who answered the question properly support my view.

Gene
----- Orignal Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


I doubt what you are saying is correct. Its true that 32bit Windows is
limited in memory access, as you say. But at the same time, 32 bit
versions of Windows require far less memory and I very much doubt that
Windows 10 is much more, if at all memory intensive than Windows 7 or
Windows 8. Memory needs for 32bit Windows are dramatically less than for
64bit. I don't know if this is true, but the limitation may make Windows
10 run less efficiently if a very memory intensive program is being used.
But for typical uses, I doubt there is a problem.

All of which may have no bearing on the current situation because the
computer may be a 64 bit computer and the version of Windows that may be
upgraded to may well be 64bit. But for anyone who has a 32bit computer
who is following the thread, I think this point needs further discussion.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.

This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
unusable RAM.

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:
Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10? What if the machine is a
32bit machine?

Also, what version of Windows is currently being run? You may just
have minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you
a year. Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it
will, but some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones
after an imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion. So my question is,
why do you want to upgrade? If the reason isn't pressing, you might
want to leave things as they are.

Gene
----- Original message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".

2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you
have 64- bit Windows.

3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum
Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".

Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram
enough for normal windows 10 user?
--
I thought of going into banking, until I lost interest.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Want to upgrade computer

Gene
 

I wasn't disputing that.  I had the impression that Windows 10 doesn't use all 4GB, but a little less.  I don't think this is because of Windows 10 per se.  I think it has to do with how much memory 32gb Windows machines can address.  Regardless, the article I sent supports my position.
 
Also, though companies do stupid things at times, it would be illogical and damaging for Microsoft to release a 32 bit version of Windows 10 that runs poorly on 32bit Windows machines.  It would erode the confidence of those who upgraded and reduce goodwill toward the company. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer

However see https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Windows-only-show-about-3-5-GB-of-
my-4-GB-of-RAM (linked in the list at the bottom of your article) to confirm my
opinion that a 32-bit version of Windows will only use 3Gbytes (or 3.2Gbytes,
as stated in the article).

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 13:03:19, Gene wrote:

> This page supports my view.
> https://www.quora.com/Is-Windows-10-advisable-with-4-GB-of-RAM
> the first two answers on the page are written by people using 32bit Windows
> 10.  The second two answers are not clear responses and we don't know what
> bit version of Windows 10 they are addressing at which times or if they
> are making a proper and clear distinction in their answers.  But those who
> answered the question properly support my view.
>
> Gene
> ----- Orignal Message -----
>
> From: Gene
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:51 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
>
>
> I doubt what you are saying is correct.  Its true that 32bit Windows is
> limited in memory access, as you say.  But at the same time, 32 bit
> versions of Windows require far less memory and I very much doubt that
> Windows 10 is much more, if at all memory intensive than Windows 7 or
> Windows 8.  Memory needs for 32bit Windows are dramatically less than for
> 64bit.  I don't know if this is true, but the limitation may make Windows
> 10 run less efficiently if a very memory intensive program is being used.
> But for typical uses, I doubt there is a problem.
>
> All of which may have no bearing on the current situation because the
> computer may be a 64 bit computer and the version of Windows that may be
> upgraded to may well be 64bit.  But for anyone who has a 32bit computer
> who is following the thread, I think this point needs further discussion.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Antony Stone
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:37 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
>
>
> If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
> hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.
>
> This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
> alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
> unusable RAM.
>
> Antony.
>
> On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:
> > Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10?  What if the machine is a
> > 32bit machine?
> >
> > Also, what version of Windows is currently being run?  You may just have
> > minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year.
> > Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but
> > some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an
> > imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion.  So my question is, why do you
> > want to upgrade?  If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave
> > things as they are.
> >
> > Gene
> > ----- Original message -----
> >
> > From: Antony Stone
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
> >
> >
> > 1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".
> >
> > 2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have
> > 64- bit Windows.
> >
> > 3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum
> > Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Antony.
> >
> > On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
> > > I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough
> > > for normal windows 10 user?

--
<flopsie> yes, but this is #lbw, we don't do normal

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: Want to upgrade computer

Antony Stone
 

However see https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Windows-only-show-about-3-5-GB-of-
my-4-GB-of-RAM (linked in the list at the bottom of your article) to confirm my
opinion that a 32-bit version of Windows will only use 3Gbytes (or 3.2Gbytes,
as stated in the article).

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 13:03:19, Gene wrote:

This page supports my view.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Windows-10-advisable-with-4-GB-of-RAM
the first two answers on the page are written by people using 32bit Windows
10. The second two answers are not clear responses and we don't know what
bit version of Windows 10 they are addressing at which times or if they
are making a proper and clear distinction in their answers. But those who
answered the question properly support my view.

Gene
----- Orignal Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


I doubt what you are saying is correct. Its true that 32bit Windows is
limited in memory access, as you say. But at the same time, 32 bit
versions of Windows require far less memory and I very much doubt that
Windows 10 is much more, if at all memory intensive than Windows 7 or
Windows 8. Memory needs for 32bit Windows are dramatically less than for
64bit. I don't know if this is true, but the limitation may make Windows
10 run less efficiently if a very memory intensive program is being used.
But for typical uses, I doubt there is a problem.

All of which may have no bearing on the current situation because the
computer may be a 64 bit computer and the version of Windows that may be
upgraded to may well be 64bit. But for anyone who has a 32bit computer
who is following the thread, I think this point needs further discussion.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.

This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
unusable RAM.

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:
Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10? What if the machine is a
32bit machine?

Also, what version of Windows is currently being run? You may just have
minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year.
Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but
some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an
imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion. So my question is, why do you
want to upgrade? If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave
things as they are.

Gene
----- Original message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".

2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have
64- bit Windows.

3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum
Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".

Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough
for normal windows 10 user?
--
<flopsie> yes, but this is #lbw, we don't do normal

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Want to upgrade computer

Gene
 

This page supports my view.
the first two answers on the page are written by people using 32bit Windows 10.  The second two answers are not clear responses and we don't know what bit version of Windows 10 they are addressing at which times or if they are making a proper and clear distinction in their answers.  But those who answered the question properly support my view.
 
Gene
----- Orignal Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer

I doubt what you are saying is correct.  Its true that 32bit Windows is limited in memory access, as you say.  But at the same time, 32 bit versions of Windows require far less memory and I very much doubt that Windows 10 is much more, if at all memory intensive than Windows 7 or Windows 8.  Memory needs for 32bit Windows are dramatically less than for 64bit.  I don't know if this is true, but the limitation may make Windows 10 run less efficiently if a very memory intensive program is being used.  But for typical uses, I doubt there is a problem.
 
All of which may have no bearing on the current situation because the computer may be a 64 bit computer and the version of Windows that may be upgraded to may well be 64bit.  But for anyone who has a 32bit computer who is following the thread, I think this point needs further discussion.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer

If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.

This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
unusable RAM.

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:

> Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10?  What if the machine is a 32bit
> machine?
>
> Also, what version of Windows is currently being run?  You may just have
> minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year.
> Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but
> some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an
> imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion.  So my question is, why do you want
> to upgrade?  If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave things
> as they are.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Antony Stone
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
>
>
> 1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".
>
> 2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have
> 64- bit Windows.
>
> 3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum Specs
> for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
> > I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough
> > for normal windows 10 user?

--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: Want to upgrade computer

Gene
 

I doubt what you are saying is correct.  Its true that 32bit Windows is limited in memory access, as you say.  But at the same time, 32 bit versions of Windows require far less memory and I very much doubt that Windows 10 is much more, if at all memory intensive than Windows 7 or Windows 8.  Memory needs for 32bit Windows are dramatically less than for 64bit.  I don't know if this is true, but the limitation may make Windows 10 run less efficiently if a very memory intensive program is being used.  But for typical uses, I doubt there is a problem.
 
All of which may have no bearing on the current situation because the computer may be a 64 bit computer and the version of Windows that may be upgraded to may well be 64bit.  But for anyone who has a 32bit computer who is following the thread, I think this point needs further discussion.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer

If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.

This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
unusable RAM.

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:

> Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10?  What if the machine is a 32bit
> machine?
>
> Also, what version of Windows is currently being run?  You may just have
> minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year.
> Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but
> some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an
> imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion.  So my question is, why do you want
> to upgrade?  If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave things
> as they are.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Antony Stone
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer
>
>
> 1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".
>
> 2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have
> 64- bit Windows.
>
> 3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum Specs
> for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
> > I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough
> > for normal windows 10 user?

--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: Want to upgrade computer

 

hi.
i read somewhere that windows 7 and layter windows 32 bit versions,
support 4 gb of ram and my windows xp, only supports 3.25 gb of ram.

On 1/14/19, Antony Stone <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it> wrote:
If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.

This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
unusable RAM.

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:

Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10? What if the machine is a
32bit
machine?

Also, what version of Windows is currently being run? You may just have
minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year.
Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but
some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an
imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion. So my question is, why do you
want
to upgrade? If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave things
as they are.

Gene
----- Original message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".

2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have
64- bit Windows.

3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum
Specs
for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".

Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough
for normal windows 10 user?
--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer

Gene
 

I very much doubt that current Dectalk voices use much computing power.  They are the older kind of synthesizer and those usually don't and, in addition, there were software versions of Dectalk available when computers were much less powerful than now and they worked well.  there was even a version that worked with the SB16 sound card in Windows 3 machines.  This was a software synthesizer even though it required the SB16 sound card and, if implemented properly, it was very responsive when run on a 166MHZ machine.  That's MHZ, not GHZ.
 
It wasn't implemented properly in general but it was by Openbook at the time and by the ASAW screen-reader.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer

Dear Brian & List:

There is a USB edition of the Triple Talk hardware synthesizer. While many devices have their highest Baud rate as 9,600 BPS, newer Uarts such as the 16550 ones can easily run at 115,200 BPS, this over a plain old RS-232C serial port. Helps if you use hardware flow control rather than DC1/DC33 XX-On/x-Off software flow control. Hardware flow control is instant; X-on/x-off has to be processed by the sending computer.

Have no stats on what really nice-sounding voices such as the ones that shipped with the Dec Talk synthesizers do to CPU usage. If you find you want to use a really nice synthetic voice, you can purchase a hardware synthesizer; however, not all hardware synthesizers have really nice voices.

With modern PC speeds what they are, buying a PC with a moderately fast to super-fast CPU should be more than adequate to handle any synthesizer voice.
Brian K. Lingard


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: January 11, 2019 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer

The real question though is this. Can they be more efficient in real terms than the inbuilt espeak?
 I did some tests back in the XP days when I had access to one, and to me at least there was nothing much in it.
 Of course, the old interface used a serial port on my old computer, so it could well be that this ancient device was a bottleneck.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
In the display name field.
From: "Brian K. Lingard" <bkl@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer


Dear Felix & List:

I believe the triple talk synthesizer is still manufactured. So is the
Votrax Personal Speech System by the Federal Screw Works.
Brian K. Lingard


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf of Felix G.
Sent: January 11, 2019 7:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer

Hello everyone,
I am thinking of getting a hardware speech synthesizer because I feel it
Might improve my efficiency by making me independent of existing sound
Resources on machines. I am aware hardware speech synthesizers are an
Ancient concept, so I would like to ask around are they still being
Manufactured for end users. If so, which ones are being produced as I am?
Writing this?
All the best,
Felix





Re: Want to upgrade computer

Antony Stone
 

If you have a 32-bit version of Windows (no matter whether the machine's
hardware is 32- or 64-bit) then it will not use more than 3Gbytes of RAM.

This tends to give disappointing performance when running a screenreader
alongside other applications, as well as being a waste of money for the
unusable RAM.

Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:35:38, Gene wrote:

Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10? What if the machine is a 32bit
machine?

Also, what version of Windows is currently being run? You may just have
minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year.
Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but
some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an
imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion. So my question is, why do you want
to upgrade? If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave things
as they are.

Gene
----- Original message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer


1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".

2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have
64- bit Windows.

3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum Specs
for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".

Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:
I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough
for normal windows 10 user?
--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Want to upgrade computer

Gene
 

Isn't there a 32 bit version of Windows 10?  What if the machine is a 32bit machine? 
 
Also, what version of Windows is currently being run?  You may just have minor annoyances when Microsoft imposes two full upgrades on you a year.  Microsoft may slow the schedule down but we don't know if it will, but some people have more annoying problems or even serious ones after an imposed Microsoft upgrade on occasion.  So my question is, why do you want to upgrade?  If the reason isn't pressing, you might want to leave things as they are. 
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to upgrade computer

1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".

2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have 64-
bit Windows.

3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum Specs
for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".

Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:

> I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough for
> normal windows 10 user?

--
This sentence contains exacly three erors.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer

Brian K. Lingard
 

Dear Brian & List:

There is a USB edition of the Triple Talk hardware synthesizer. While many devices have their highest Baud rate as 9,600 BPS, newer Uarts such as the 16550 ones can easily run at 115,200 BPS, this over a plain old RS-232C serial port. Helps if you use hardware flow control rather than DC1/DC33 XX-On/x-Off software flow control. Hardware flow control is instant; X-on/x-off has to be processed by the sending computer.

Have no stats on what really nice-sounding voices such as the ones that shipped with the Dec Talk synthesizers do to CPU usage. If you find you want to use a really nice synthetic voice, you can purchase a hardware synthesizer; however, not all hardware synthesizers have really nice voices.

With modern PC speeds what they are, buying a PC with a moderately fast to super-fast CPU should be more than adequate to handle any synthesizer voice.
Brian K. Lingard


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: January 11, 2019 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer

The real question though is this. Can they be more efficient in real terms than the inbuilt espeak?
I did some tests back in the XP days when I had access to one, and to me at least there was nothing much in it.
Of course, the old interface used a serial port on my old computer, so it could well be that this ancient device was a bottleneck.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
In the display name field.
From: "Brian K. Lingard" <bkl@ncf.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer


Dear Felix & List:

I believe the triple talk synthesizer is still manufactured. So is the
Votrax Personal Speech System by the Federal Screw Works.
Brian K. Lingard


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf of Felix G.
Sent: January 11, 2019 7:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Slightly OT: Hardware speech synthesizer

Hello everyone,
I am thinking of getting a hardware speech synthesizer because I feel it
Might improve my efficiency by making me independent of existing sound
Resources on machines. I am aware hardware speech synthesizers are an
Ancient concept, so I would like to ask around are they still being
Manufactured for end users. If so, which ones are being produced as I am?
Writing this?
All the best,
Felix


Re: Want to upgrade computer

Antony Stone
 

1. We don't know what you regard as a "normal Windows 10 user".

2. I would recommend more than 4Gbytes of RAM, and make certain you have 64-
bit Windows.

3. See the thread on this list starting Friday 11th entitled "Minimum Specs
for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications".

Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:16:38, farhan israk wrote:

I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough for
normal windows 10 user?
--
This sentence contains exacly three erors.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Want to upgrade computer

farhan israk
 

I want to upgrade my computer. Is core i3 processor and 4gb ram enough for normal windows 10 user?


Re: Java accessibility

Antony Stone
 

On Monday 14 January 2019 at 12:13:05, farhan israk wrote:

Thanks to all. How to get access to dev mailing list? I'm not able to
enable java access bridge. If I run %JRE_HOME%\bin\jabswitch -enable
command in command prompt, command prompt shows specified path is not
available. I also tried arduino ide but couldn't use it due to
accessibility issue. I also tried to install android studio but couldn't
install it. In second page of I need to check android studio. I pressed
space many times on it but couldn't check it. It remained unchecked. I
installed clips ide. I found it very much accessible. I can easily use it.
I want to know few things regarding this ide. Do I need to change any
settings? How to compile and run code after writing code?
--
René Descartes walks in to a bar.
The barman asks him "Do you want a drink?"
Descartes says "I think not," and disappears.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Java accessibility

farhan israk
 

Thanks to all. How to get access to dev mailing list? I'm not able to enable java access bridge. If I run %JRE_HOME%\bin\jabswitch -enable command in command prompt, command prompt shows specified path is not available. I also tried arduino ide but couldn't use it due to accessibility issue. I also tried to install android studio but couldn't install it. In second page of I need to check android studio. I pressed space many times on it but couldn't check it. It remained unchecked. I installed clips ide. I found it very much accessible. I can easily use it. I want to know few things regarding this ide. Do I need to change any settings? How to compile and run code after writing code?


On Sun, 6 Jan 2019, 8:38 pm Isaac Porat <isaac@... wrote:
Hi


I did not use this particular IDE but used Eclipse and more recently
AndroidStudio both also written in Java.

I did not use Jaws for some years but at the time Java support was very
poor, NVDA support is much better.

As long as you have Java installed the Java access bridge comes with it,
no need to install it separately.

Sometimes for some reason it is not activated and needs to be activated
manually.


Unlike the poor advice given in another message, the java updater places
a message on the tray when a new version is available and if you need
java, always update.

None of the browser need Java they are mostly written in C / C++.

The various security risks when running Java in the browser where fixed 
few years ago and if I am not mistaken from Java version 9 add ons are
not supported anymore.


Regards

Isaac



On 05/01/2019 16:50, MAX wrote:
> My only brush with Java is in the Arduino I D E (integrated development environment,  Jaws will not read it.  Even after installing Java access bridge.  After switching over to NVDA I found that it would.  I did not uninstall Java access bridge so I must assume it is still on my computer.
>
>   
>
>   
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
>   
>
> Max K 4 O D S.
>
>   
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
>   
>
> Antique Electronics Site:  <http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
>
>   
>
>   
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2019 12:59 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Java accessibility
>
>   
>
> Haven't used Java applications in a long time, but i seem to recall that you need to install a program called Java Access Bridge, which facilitates interaction between java and screen readers.
>
>   
>
> Andy
>
>   
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: farhan israk <mailto:fahim.net.2014@...>
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2019 10:43 PM
>
> Subject: [nvda] Java accessibility
>
>   
>
> I want to learn java. For this reason I installed jdk and intelliJ ide. But,after opening intelliJ ide, I'm not able to navigate. If I press tab or aero keys nvda doesn't say anything. Got same result with object navigation. Nvda doesn't say anything. Now, what can I do?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>