Date   

Re: Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

Sarah k Alawami
 

Interesting, gives me a lot to chew on, that is, if I have any teeth left. Lol!

Take care

On 12 Jan 2019, at 13:49, Brian Vogel wrote:

Sarah,

         Although recently there's been a rather tectonic shift with regard to the relationship between Windows 10 and "old" versus "new" hardware, even now there's no hard and fast drop dead date with regard to updates, so long as the machine can still get them and meets the minimum requirements.   I've got a machine from the Vista era that was running Windows 10, and the only reason I stopped is that, for some odd reason, there was absolutely no compatible mouse pad driver to be found, and believe me I looked at the time.   I've got another that's a now at least 10 year old desktop machine that's happily sailing along with Windows 10.

         I fully expect that support for Windows 10 will be dropped from machines that run conventional BIOS as opposed to UEFI.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

 

Sarah,

         Although recently there's been a rather tectonic shift with regard to the relationship between Windows 10 and "old" versus "new" hardware, even now there's no hard and fast drop dead date with regard to updates, so long as the machine can still get them and meets the minimum requirements.   I've got a machine from the Vista era that was running Windows 10, and the only reason I stopped is that, for some odd reason, there was absolutely no compatible mouse pad driver to be found, and believe me I looked at the time.   I've got another that's a now at least 10 year old desktop machine that's happily sailing along with Windows 10.

         I fully expect that support for Windows 10 will be dropped from machines that run conventional BIOS as opposed to UEFI.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

Sarah k Alawami
 

Thanks. I'm sed to the mac where after a certain model, or 6 yers after that model is released no more software updates will be issued to that model. Nice. I'll keep this on my mental desktop.

Take care

On 12 Jan 2019, at 12:49, Brian Vogel wrote:

Sarah,

           Depending on which Windows you're looking to find information about, one, the other, or both of the below will fill the bill:

Windows Lifecycle Fact Sheet

Windows 10 Release Information
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Uninstall Norton Anti Virus

Kevin Cussick
 

and I can remember using this tool and not accessible with any screen reader. app remover I think got rid of it.

On 12/01/2019 16:52, David Goldfield wrote:
While I haven't ran this tool in years I believe the Kaspersky removal tool did require a captcha. I honestly don't remember why I needed to uninstall it but I think it was when I was upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10.
David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com<http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>
On 1/12/2019 11:42 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 11:18 AM, Gene wrote:
But how many such removal tools require safe mode and how many require a captcha solution?
None that I am aware of require either. They're just tools that exist for use in case "the usual uninstall method" somehow does not complete successfully.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.
~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


Re: Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

 

Sarah,

           Depending on which Windows you're looking to find information about, one, the other, or both of the below will fill the bill:

Windows Lifecycle Fact Sheet

Windows 10 Release Information
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

Sarah k Alawami
 

Oh yeah. My mac which is 6 years old just got a new ssd (why that died I dunno, maybe when the battery blue up) but yeah apart from my f and j dots gone and some keys I need to bang on to get to work, the computer still runs fine. Its end of life is next year though which sucks as I love this computer. That is, no more os updates for it. By the way is there a way to find out the end of life for a windows laptop where you get no more windows updates especially if it is built by you?. My windows laptop is going to be 2 years old in June but it should still be fine for 5 ro 7 mor eyears if I treat it good, which I probably won't. Lol! Can't wait to try word on ot for when I go back to school.

Take care

On 12 Jan 2019, at 4:24, enes sarıbaş wrote:

hi,

Brian, I couldn't have said it myself. Moving to an SSD was by far the most dramatic jump in computer performance I experienced. I wouldn't go back to a mechanical hard drive if someone paid me to do it. Like Gene, when I was on  a mechanical drive, I thought the SSD performance jump was hype. SSDs always justify the cost, and I think are the part of the ocmputer that result in the most noticable jump in speed. For instance, with a hard drive, firefox took about 10-15 seconds to load. Similarly word did as well. Now any program I click on loads instantaniously. For this reason, I have no intention of replacing this PC as it feels like a newly bought pc.

On 1/11/2019 2:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 06:27 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
Ssd drives as has been said do help with loading times definitely but once the programme/application is active it all comes down to ram and CPU.
Absolutely, positively incorrect in practice.   Active programs are constantly doing disc I/O of various sorts, and more importantly, so is the operating system.  The gains in speed from an SSD versus an HDD are incredibly significant to how quick things are for the end user.

And the above is coming from someone who still has only HDDs in his computers.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: RES: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

 

Alexandre,

          As Gene has indicated, under Chrome and on this page the only way to activate these things with a screen reader is to use screen reader mousing controls.

          By the way, and not that Gene is incorrect in any way, if you happen to have a keyboard with a "hard insert" key (as in dedicated an which only has as it's function Insert) you can use that along with the number pad slash character as well.

           If you have a laptop with a full number pad you should be able to use the desktop keystrokes as he's given them.  If you have a laptop without a number pad, and presuming the NVDA key is still INSERT, then the keystokes are:

                    Move mouse to current navigator object       INS+Shift+M
                    Left click mouse                                            INS+[
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: RES: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

Gene
 

Don't go into forms mode.
Move to whatever radio button you want to select in browse mode.
On the numpad, issue the command numpad insert, numpad slash.
That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so, press the slash key.  That is the key to the right of the numlock. 
Now release both keys.
Now press slash by itself again.
If you check the state of the radio button now, it will be checked.
If you don't have a numpad and are using the laptop keyboard option, someone else can give you the commands. 
 
The first command is to route the mouse to where you are.
The second command left clicks the mouse.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 1:14 PM
Subject: RES: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

Very strange. I just reboot and repeat the tests without success.

First I went to the radio button with f and press spacebar. It didn’t select.

Second I turned forms mode on with capslock + spacebar and tried to select the radio button without success too.

p.s. I know that forms mode is a jaws’s terminology. But I can’t remember how it is called in nvda... 😂  

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 

De: Gene
Enviado:sábado, 12 de janeiro de 2019 16:48
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

 

Do you know how to route and click the mouse?  You should always try that if other methods don't work.  it works here. 

 

I also tested the page with firefox and the radio buttons work correctly.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 12:38 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

 

                                                               Hi friends!

Although the following page is in portuguese, if you press f you will be placed in the first group of radio buttons.

I was trying to select the button whose labe is investimentos. But I couldn’t.

I made this test in schrome.

https://internetbanking.ourinvest.com.br/Cadastro/DadosIniciais

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 

 


RES: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

Alexandre Alves Toco
 

Very strange. I just reboot and repeat the tests without success.

First I went to the radio button with f and press spacebar. It didn’t select.

Second I turned forms mode on with capslock + spacebar and tried to select the radio button without success too.

p.s. I know that forms mode is a jaws’s terminology. But I can’t remember how it is called in nvda... 😂  

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 

De: Gene
Enviado:sábado, 12 de janeiro de 2019 16:48
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

 

Do you know how to route and click the mouse?  You should always try that if other methods don't work.  it works here. 

 

I also tested the page with firefox and the radio buttons work correctly.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 12:38 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

 

                                                               Hi friends!

Although the following page is in portuguese, if you press f you will be placed in the first group of radio buttons.

I was trying to select the button whose labe is investimentos. But I couldn’t.

I made this test in schrome.

https://internetbanking.ourinvest.com.br/Cadastro/DadosIniciais

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 

 


Re: can't select radio buttons in a webpage

 

This is another of those instances where I'd almost like to throttle the designers of this page.

First, visually, those three radio buttons are not presented as radio buttons, but as a single bar of side-by-side buttons marked by dividers.  Then, when I listen to NVDA, it notes that this is implemented as a table on top of it all, which adds another layer of indirection depending on how the rendering engine works (and it's clearly different between Firefox and Chrome.

These could have easily been implemented and presented as a straight radio button list, which would have made more sense.  That, or make the first level of the decision tree clicking on a button for one of those three things then leading the user to what has to be filled in otherwise afterward.

This is just crappy design, period, when one web object is masked entirely as far as how either someone who sees, or someone who uses a screen reader, would recognize that it's a "pick one of these three" switch (at least in this case).  You figure that out quickly enough when you see how it behaves as you interact with it visually, but it's still a bad design choice.  People know what radio buttons are, or at least anyone who's been using the internet for more than a few weeks knows what radio buttons are.  They're an object as old as dirt, metaphorically speaking, in the world of web coding.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: can't select radio buttons in a webpage

Gene
 

Do you know how to route and click the mouse?  You should always try that if other methods don't work.  it works here. 
 
I also tested the page with firefox and the radio buttons work correctly.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 12:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] can't select radio buttons in a webpage

                                                               Hi friends!

Although the following page is in portuguese, if you press f you will be placed in the first group of radio buttons.

I was trying to select the button whose labe is investimentos. But I couldn’t.

I made this test in schrome.

https://internetbanking.ourinvest.com.br/Cadastro/DadosIniciais

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 


can't select radio buttons in a webpage

Alexandre Alves Toco
 

                                                               Hi friends!

Although the following page is in portuguese, if you press f you will be placed in the first group of radio buttons.

I was trying to select the button whose labe is investimentos. But I couldn’t.

I made this test in schrome.

https://internetbanking.ourinvest.com.br/Cadastro/DadosIniciais

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 


Re: Uninstall Norton Anti Virus

David Goldfield
 

It's pretty sad when I have to go back and review one of my earlier blog posts to verify whether my memory of the captcha in the Kaspersky removal tool was correct. As of a few years ago the Kaspersky removal tool did present a captcha before it would allow me to remove Kaspersky Antivirus. Now that I reviewed my own post I now remember that I did this not due to a Windows upgrade but in order to solve a problem regarding installing a more recent version of Kaspersky Antivirus using a screen reader.


David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 1/12/2019 11:42 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 11:18 AM, Gene wrote:
But how many such removal tools require safe mode and how many require a captcha solution?
None that I am aware of require either.  They're just tools that exist for use in case "the usual uninstall method" somehow does not complete successfully.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Uninstall Norton Anti Virus

David Goldfield
 

While I haven't ran this tool in years I believe the Kaspersky removal tool did require a captcha. I honestly don't remember why I needed to uninstall it but I think it was when I was upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 1/12/2019 11:42 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 11:18 AM, Gene wrote:
But how many such removal tools require safe mode and how many require a captcha solution?
None that I am aware of require either.  They're just tools that exist for use in case "the usual uninstall method" somehow does not complete successfully.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Uninstall Norton Anti Virus

 

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 11:18 AM, Gene wrote:
But how many such removal tools require safe mode and how many require a captcha solution?
None that I am aware of require either.  They're just tools that exist for use in case "the usual uninstall method" somehow does not complete successfully.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Uninstall Norton Anti Virus

Gene
 

But how many such removal tools require safe mode and how many require a captcha solution?  I'm not saying it shouldn't be used.  I'm saying that it may require sighted help.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Uninstall Norton Anti Virus

Did you try using the Norton Remove and Reinstall Tool?  These are often far less "complicated" and, as a result, more accessible since they are very purpose driven.  You're generally asked which you're trying to do and that's that.  I don't have Norton and haven't used this, but I've used plenty of software in this class.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Uninstall Norton Anti Virus

 

Did you try using the Norton Remove and Reinstall Tool?  These are often far less "complicated" and, as a result, more accessible since they are very purpose driven.  You're generally asked which you're trying to do and that's that.  I don't have Norton and haven't used this, but I've used plenty of software in this class.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,

Brian, I couldn't have said it myself. Moving to an SSD was by far the most dramatic jump in computer performance I experienced. I wouldn't go back to a mechanical hard drive if someone paid me to do it. Like Gene, when I was on  a mechanical drive, I thought the SSD performance jump was hype. SSDs always justify the cost, and I think are the part of the ocmputer that result in the most noticable jump in speed. For instance, with a hard drive, firefox took about 10-15 seconds to load. Similarly word did as well. Now any program I click on loads instantaniously. For this reason, I have no intention of replacing this PC as it feels like a newly bought pc.

On 1/11/2019 2:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 06:27 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
Ssd drives as has been said do help with loading times definitely but once the programme/application is active it all comes down to ram and CPU.
Absolutely, positively incorrect in practice.   Active programs are constantly doing disc I/O of various sorts, and more importantly, so is the operating system.  The gains in speed from an SSD versus an HDD are incredibly significant to how quick things are for the end user.

And the above is coming from someone who still has only HDDs in his computers.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: question for a friend regarding windows 7 and NVDA

MariaRosa Chapman
 

HI.

thank you for the info. I will pass this on.

Maria

On 12 Jan 2019, at 9:50 pm, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi!
Using NVDA on Windows 7 with Office and Visual Studio, with good
results. Green light here.
Best,
Felix

Am Sa., 12. Jan. 2019 um 11:43 Uhr schrieb Brian's Mail list account
via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>:

What service pack has it got?
So far all the updates including the next one which is under test work on
windows 7, assuming its fully updated with service packs and the windows
updates. Indeed, I'd actually say that when used portably it works better
with 7 than it does with 10.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
This message sent from a Windows XP machine!
----- Original Message -----
From: "MariaRosa Chapman" <bubbygirl1972@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 9:59 AM
Subject: [nvda] question for a friend regarding windows 7 and NVDA


HI.

A friend is running windows 7. He heard about a year ago on a tech show
that the latest update of NVDA is not supported when running windows 7. He
isn’t sure whether or not he can update his NVDa.

can someone pleased advise. If there are any issues, could you please let us
know what they are?

Maria








Re: Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

Felix G.
 

Hi!
My home pc is an Intel i5 with 4 GB of RAM happily grinding along on
Windows 10. Definitely more than a little bit on the low RAM side of
things but it's not let me down yet. Then again, I'm not running
anything intensive on it save the occasional Visual Studio. I launch
it, make coffee, and when I return it's ready.
Best,
Felix

Am Sa., 12. Jan. 2019 um 00:32 Uhr schrieb Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com>:


Or in my case a bit of both. Still though I would go for the high end machines as apps do get bloated with unneeded code. I remember when word took about 5 seconds on my machine running 128 mb of ram and that was in 2002lol! Word to me is not intense, in fact that's normal. So is skype, power point, outlook etc and the other apps are just normal use, not intense at all. Now what I and some other s do, now that is intense. But no, that is just a normal user with a very very under powered machine. I guess for now use yoru personal laptop even though it violates school policy.

On 11 Jan 2019, at 14:18, Gene wrote:

Then, and I'm not giving you a hard time, but you either didn't read the full message, where he specifically lists programs to be used on the computer, or it didn't register.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 4:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

The student say "heavy intense application" so in my mind that's video editing, excel, word, outlook, power point, audio editing software, video rendering and editing software. Run all of that at once, and even an 8 gig machine will choke. My capture card required 8 gigs so I plug that in, watch my fans spin up and watch it use 8 gigs of ram leaving me with 24 to play with. Forza uses I think about 4-8, I dunno how much nvda uses but by the time I'm done I will have used most if not all of my ram in a day.

On 11 Jan 2019, at 13:46, Gene wrote:

I didn't say you should buy one. I said that it is still very useable as a demonstration that you can buy a machine that, if it is reasonably powerful, not a power user machine, but in the moderate price range, it should be expected to be very useable for years. That is, of course, if the machine meetts your needs, and we are talking about typical uses, and if your needs don't change dramatically regarding the power of machine you need.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 3:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

Hehahahahaha. 20011? Well, I know we are in 2019. I do know what you menat, but I would not buy a machine that old at all. My buddies mac is starting to finally show its age and it's 6 years old. He went to go sell it and didn't, they would have only given him 50 cents for it. Um? Wow?

True I'm not the normal computer user, but I never was even when I was learning how to use windows in 2001, or was it 2002? I wanted to learn it all, do it all, use all the power I could.

Take care

On 11 Jan 2019, at 13:14, Gene wrote:

I wouldn't pay a lot of money for a three-year-old machine and less for older ones. And I would be unlikely to buy a machine from a private person, regardless of how new it is unless I was going to reformat it or use the Windows 10 feature to return the machine to the original Windows state. Who knows what malware might be on the machine.

But a one year limit for a typical user is arbitrary and not applicable.

The kinds of uses being discussed, browsing, e-mail, word processing, streaming, etc. are not intensive operations. Computers purchased five six, eight years ago, if reasonably powerful, can perform them today. I have a laptop from 20011 that was about a $500 machine when it was purchased. it still performs those tasks very well.

The general advice is that when a computer becomes five years old, it shouldn't be considered reliable, and that is one reason I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a machine three years old or older. But many machines work for eight or ten or more years so if the price is right, it's a good gamble if you want to gamble.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Minimum Specs for NVDA with Other Intensive Applications

Actually I would not let even that student touch anything over a year old. I don't care if it still works. Many companies don't support let's say a 7 year old machine the school might be giving to their students. If the school can afford it let them buy refirbs that are a year old if that is even possible as long as they have 8 or 16 gigs of ram and the students can use them for class but anything over a year old at least in terms of school settings is yucky to me.

I know a family member who is at their office still using windows I think it's 7. They refuse to upgrade the their machines are 10 years old, but what would you expect from most people who don't really care about this stuff.


If I could afford it I would replace my computers every year or 2 even though they still work. It's staying up to date with technology and going with the best if you can, at least to me.


On 11 Jan 2019, at 12:34, Brian Vogel wrote:

Sarah,

You really seem to be spinning out over these last several posts. This really is not about you, or your needs or wants, but trying to offer advice regarding how best to make buying decisions related to computers in general.

It's not that your needs are wrong, but they're utterly irrelevant to what I've seen as the broader point of this whole topic.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back