Date   

Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hi,

One way to illustrate this is Settings/System/About (or if you want to get there faster, press Windows+X, then Y). You can’t use keyboard commands to look at various system information displayed on that screen – you must use object navigation to read them.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:11 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

One context where I use object navigation is Windows 10 Settings (Windows+I) where you must use object navigation to read certain information.

-
Joseph, would you mind offering a little bit more detail?  I can tab out of the search box in Settings then use the arrow keys to move around the grid of the various settings.  I can use right arrow to go from beginning to end and when I hit the end (Update & Security) right arrow stops working and left arrow works backward.  I can also use down/up arrow if there is an item below/above the one I'm on.  If I use object navigation to traverse the list (as it's treated as a list in object navigation) what I'm hearing is exactly what I'm hearing if I'm arrowing around.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing, as in what the "certain information" you've made reference to.  In my case, when moving about, I'm getting the title of the specific setting as well as its numeric position in the list.  This is a perfect example of where I think I may be missing something that can be achieved via object navigation.  For each item in the list of settings, after its title is a bit of descriptive text, e.g., for System, the first settings list item, it reads, "Display, sound, notifications, power," in small text afterward.  I virtually never actually read these, as it's the title of the settings I'm about to open that interests me, but it is there.  I'm wondering if that may be what you're talking about.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:11 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
One context where I use object navigation is Windows 10 Settings (Windows+I) where you must use object navigation to read certain information.
-
Joseph, would you mind offering a little bit more detail?  I can tab out of the search box in Settings then use the arrow keys to move around the grid of the various settings.  I can use right arrow to go from beginning to end and when I hit the end (Update & Security) right arrow stops working and left arrow works backward.  I can also use down/up arrow if there is an item below/above the one I'm on.  If I use object navigation to traverse the list (as it's treated as a list in object navigation) what I'm hearing is exactly what I'm hearing if I'm arrowing around.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing, as in what the "certain information" you've made reference to.  In my case, when moving about, I'm getting the title of the specific setting as well as its numeric position in the list.  This is a perfect example of where I think I may be missing something that can be achieved via object navigation.  For each item in the list of settings, after its title is a bit of descriptive text, e.g., for System, the first settings list item, it reads, "Display, sound, notifications, power," in small text afterward.  I virtually never actually read these, as it's the title of the settings I'm about to open that interests me, but it is there.  I'm wondering if that may be what you're talking about.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

This is my only computer, and the only external soundcard I have is for my microphone. Also, I live with my mother and she knows less about updating drivers than I do. She hasn't had her own computer in years and didn't mess with this sort of stuff even when she did.


On 7/08/2020 8:02 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:56 PM, Gene wrote:
Before making changes such as installing a different driver, if there is no sighted help available in a reasonable time, should anything be done without an external USB sound card, speaker, or headphones?
-
A very reasonable question, that's for sure, and if it were my only computer, and I'd be completely "dead in the water" without it, then I'd definitely not be doing major updates to audio device drivers in particular if I didn't have emergency sighted assistance, and that assistant has to have an idea of dealing with rolling back updates to drivers, before doing so.

All of the above being said, and meant, I have never had a driver update that was supplied by the computer's manufacturer (or the sound card's manufacturer) that killed a device when applied.  The same cannot be said of third-party sources, which is why I warn people that there are only three sources from which drivers should be sourced and updates be accepted:  Windows Update, the support page from your computer's manufacturer, the support page from the device's manufacturer.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Gene
 

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to
think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen,
point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys,
then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (&
often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real
lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the
customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who may
have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when I
made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


A possible bug

Gene
 

I'm using the latest beta, I haven't switched to the production version.

This appears to be a bug and it may result in information being missed. On The New York Times home page, using Firefox or Brave, I haven't yet tested with Chrome, but Brave is Chrome-based, when you get to the opinion part of the page, the articles in that section aren't seen as headings. All other articles are seen as headings and using a very old NVDA, the articles in the opinion section are seen as headings. This is using Windows 7.

I just tested with NVDA 2019.2.21 and the same thing happens so this likely bug has been around for some time.

I also just tested with Chrome and the same thing occurs. All articles in the opinion section are skipped and the screen-reader moves directly to the editor's picks heading. It needs to be determined what is causing this problem and that may help determine its seriousness.

Gene


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Problem being, I was told how to turn off enhancements yesterday, but when I followed those instructions, I found that the enhancements were already turned off!

On 7/08/2020 7:43 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

That’s the information we’ve been waiting for. At least it helps us narrow down the culprit a bit further.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

The make is Asus and I don't know off the top of my head what the model is. I do know I have Realtec drivers, and that they were responsible for the internal mike on my laptop being as godawful as it is, but I couldn't find the enhancements for that. My USB mike is far superior so I don't care about it any more.

 

It should be noted that this never happens with audio from other sources.

On 7/08/2020 7:29 am, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:24 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

I don't know how to check this or how to update the driver without assistance.

-
Which I'm happy to provide, but more information is necessary.  As a starting point, what is the make and model of your computer?
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Jackie,

           Thanks.  While I definitely get what object navigation is in the abstract, when I have attempted to play with it, where I attempted to play with it, I did not get results that were what I was expecting.

            That's the main reason I wanted some example contexts so that I could know whether I was making some sort of bone-headed mistake or not.  I am no exception to the general rule, "When things aren't going as expected, or documented, suspect user error first!"   People have often gotten irritated when I state this, but it's been proven, and by myself about myself, too, in far too many instances over the decades to be ignored.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:56 PM, Gene wrote:
Before making changes such as installing a different driver, if there is no sighted help available in a reasonable time, should anything be done without an external USB sound card, speaker, or headphones?
-
A very reasonable question, that's for sure, and if it were my only computer, and I'd be completely "dead in the water" without it, then I'd definitely not be doing major updates to audio device drivers in particular if I didn't have emergency sighted assistance, and that assistant has to have an idea of dealing with rolling back updates to drivers, before doing so.

All of the above being said, and meant, I have never had a driver update that was supplied by the computer's manufacturer (or the sound card's manufacturer) that killed a device when applied.  The same cannot be said of third-party sources, which is why I warn people that there are only three sources from which drivers should be sourced and updates be accepted:  Windows Update, the support page from your computer's manufacturer, the support page from the device's manufacturer.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Jackie
 

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to
think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen,
point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys,
then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (&
often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real
lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the
customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who may
have yet to do so.  This is exactly what I was hoping to get when I
made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde



--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Gene
 

Before making changes such as installing a different driver, if there is no sighted help available in a reasonable time, should anything be done without an external USB sound card, speaker, or headphones? For myself, it might be a number of days before sighted help might come and I would be very reluctant to try things if I didn't have an external sound card that I can connect to standard headphones or to my receiver for sound.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 4:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:38 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
The make is Asus and I don't know off the top of my head what the model is.-
Unfortunately, then, I'm stuck. There are, literally, thousands of Asus computer models, and without the specific model it's impossible to determine what the most recent drivers Asus has for a given computer are.

The only way I know of that you might be able to get the model number, as what's provided varies by maker, is using the DXDIAG command. Hit Winkey+R, enter DXDIAG in the open edit box, then hit Enter. You'll get a message about needing to connect to the internet to check certain things which it's fine to OK, then after about 15-30 seconds a window will pop up with the title DirectX Diagnostic Tool and it is open to its System tab. In that tab, what's shown to the right of the label System model is the model. There is also an Sound tab where the driver information for your sound device (usually output device, e.g., speakers/headphones) is shown. What's important is the Date shown for the sound driver since you'd be checking on your computer's Drivers & Software page to see if the driver they offer is newer than what you have (also make a note of the version number, too, as there are times when an updated package is released, but the driver in it is the same version as an earlier package).


--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:38 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
The make is Asus and I don't know off the top of my head what the model is.
-
Unfortunately, then, I'm stuck.  There are, literally, thousands of Asus computer models, and without the specific model it's impossible to determine what the most recent drivers Asus has for a given computer are.

The only way I know of that you might be able to get the model number, as what's provided varies by maker, is using the DXDIAG command.  Hit Winkey+R, enter DXDIAG in the open edit box, then hit Enter.  You'll get a message about needing to connect to the internet to check certain things which it's fine to OK, then after about 15-30 seconds a window will pop up with the title DirectX Diagnostic Tool and it is open to its System tab.  In that tab, what's shown to the right of the label System model is the model.  There is also an Sound tab where the driver information for your sound device (usually output device, e.g., speakers/headphones) is shown.  What's important is the Date shown for the sound driver since you'd be checking on your computer's Drivers & Software page to see if the driver they offer is newer than what you have (also make a note of the version number, too, as there are times when an updated package is released, but the driver in it is the same version as an earlier package).

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Hi,
I know you may have tried it, but does this happen if you switch to a different synthesizer? If it doesn’t, it would be better to talk to Espeak NG folks. My guess is that it is across synthesizers, and if yes, it is something we do need to think about.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

I don't want to have to roll back. I went to the trouble of updating everything, and I don't have 2019.3 because I didn't download any updates between then and now.

On 7/08/2020 7:38 am, Tyler Spivey wrote:
It's perfectly fine to run 2019.2.1. It should keep working for a while.
If it works for you, then great. One thing you might have a problem
with is finding copies of addons that work with it.
The core functionality of NVDA is to speak, so this seems pretty
important to get right.
See the comment I made to #11061 this morning for an easily
reproduceable test case.


On 8/6/2020 2:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

It’s up to you, but at this time, I advise not going to anything
earlier than 2019.3.

Cheers,

Joseph



*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Sharni-Lee Ward
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:30 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA



Would it be better for me to roll back my NVDA then? Or should I
stick this out and hope improvements come along eventually? I can
assure you I didn't have this problem before I updated, but I was
concerned the minor accessibility issues I was having might be due to
my having an outdated version of NVDA on my system.

On 7/08/2020 2:36 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Part of these have to do with speech refactor. Python 3.7 did
contribute somewhat, but we’re basically talking about multiple
changes at once. At the moment NV Access folks are working hard on
improving performance and fixing outstanding Office usability bugs.

Cheers,

Joseph



*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Sean
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:31 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest
NVDA



Unfortunately, the old stability disappeared with the move to Python3.

I have an Issue about this. But the NVDA team said this would be a
difficult / complex process.
Nothing can be done right now.

1. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11061
2. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10971

On 06/08/2020 07:49, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

So I just finally decided to brave the Python 3 hurdle, and
updated from 2019.2.1 to 2020.2. I've updated the addons I could
and wanted to keep, and they're both working fine.


I am, however, having an odd little issue with the synth's
speech. I'm using ESpeak NG, and the latest NVDA. I'm on Windows
10.

My issue is that occasionally, most often at the ends of
sentences and on the word image in the context of that being an
object, the speech will break up slightly, for a brief but
noticeable fraction of a second. It happens irregularly, and I
don't know what to do to fix it. I asked on a Discord server I'm
a member of, and someone there told me to switch audio output
from Microsoft Sound Mapper to my speakers/headphones. I did
this, but it hasn't helped.


I've also noticed a slight but noticeable lag when deleting
characters, and in single-letter navigation. In the latter, It
takes most of a second before NVDA announces the item the cursor
has moved to after the letter was pressed.


Any help regarding these issues would be sincerely appreciated.




--


Sean

* Email: seantolstoyevski@...
<mailto:seantolstoyevski@...>
* GitHub: SeanTolstoyevski
<https://github.com/SeanTolstoyevski/>

👨‍🦯I’m programmer. I coding often Python, sometimes Go and rarely
C++.


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Hi,

That’s the information we’ve been waiting for. At least it helps us narrow down the culprit a bit further.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

The make is Asus and I don't know off the top of my head what the model is. I do know I have Realtec drivers, and that they were responsible for the internal mike on my laptop being as godawful as it is, but I couldn't find the enhancements for that. My USB mike is far superior so I don't care about it any more.

 

It should be noted that this never happens with audio from other sources.

On 7/08/2020 7:29 am, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:24 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

I don't know how to check this or how to update the driver without assistance.

-
Which I'm happy to provide, but more information is necessary.  As a starting point, what is the make and model of your computer?
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I don't want to have to roll back. I went to the trouble of updating everything, and I don't have 2019.3 because I didn't download any updates between then and now.

On 7/08/2020 7:38 am, Tyler Spivey wrote:
It's perfectly fine to run 2019.2.1. It should keep working for a while.
If it works for you, then great. One thing you might have a problem with
is finding copies of addons that work with it.
The core functionality of NVDA is to speak, so this seems pretty
important to get right.
See the comment I made to #11061 this morning for an easily
reproduceable test case.


On 8/6/2020 2:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

It’s up to you, but at this time, I advise not going to anything earlier
than 2019.3.

Cheers,

Joseph


*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Sharni-Lee Ward
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:30 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA


Would it be better for me to roll back my NVDA then? Or should I stick
this out and hope improvements come along eventually? I can assure you I
didn't have this problem before I updated, but I was concerned the minor
accessibility issues I was having might be due to my having an outdated
version of NVDA on my system.

On 7/08/2020 2:36 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Part of these have to do with speech refactor. Python 3.7 did
contribute somewhat, but we’re basically talking about multiple
changes at once. At the moment NV Access folks are working hard on
improving performance and fixing outstanding Office usability bugs.

Cheers,

Joseph


*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Sean
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:31 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA


Unfortunately, the old stability disappeared with the move to Python3.

I have an Issue about this. But the NVDA team said this would be a
difficult / complex process.
Nothing can be done right now.

1. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11061
2. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10971

On 06/08/2020 07:49, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

So I just finally decided to brave the Python 3 hurdle, and
updated from 2019.2.1 to 2020.2. I've updated the addons I could
and wanted to keep, and they're both working fine.


I am, however, having an odd little issue with the synth's
speech. I'm using ESpeak NG, and the latest NVDA. I'm on Windows
10.

My issue is that occasionally, most often at the ends of
sentences and on the word image in the context of that being an
object, the speech will break up slightly, for a brief but
noticeable fraction of a second. It happens irregularly, and I
don't know what to do to fix it. I asked on a Discord server I'm
a member of, and someone there told me to switch audio output
from Microsoft Sound Mapper to my speakers/headphones. I did
this, but it hasn't helped.


I've also noticed a slight but noticeable lag when deleting
characters, and in single-letter navigation. In the latter, It
takes most of a second before NVDA announces the item the cursor
has moved to after the letter was pressed.


Any help regarding these issues would be sincerely appreciated.




--


Sean

* Email: seantolstoyevski@...
<mailto:seantolstoyevski@...>
* GitHub: SeanTolstoyevski <https://github.com/SeanTolstoyevski/>

👨‍🦯I’m programmer. I coding often Python, sometimes Go and rarely
C++.


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Hi,
Speech output is one of the major components of NVDA. However, I would say that interpretation is a slightly higher priority, along with responsiveness in how it is carried out. Not that I don't value speech issues as something to be ignored - it is a major priority. I wrote the below statement, recognizing that Python Software Foundation itself no longer supports Python 2.7, which has huge implications even for NVDA at some point. Older NVDA releases will work fine, but we cannot ignore the speed on which we drive the highway.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

It's perfectly fine to run 2019.2.1. It should keep working for a while.
If it works for you, then great. One thing you might have a problem with is finding copies of addons that work with it.
The core functionality of NVDA is to speak, so this seems pretty important to get right.
See the comment I made to #11061 this morning for an easily reproduceable test case.


On 8/6/2020 2:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

It’s up to you, but at this time, I advise not going to anything
earlier than 2019.3.

Cheers,

Joseph



*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Sharni-Lee Ward
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:30 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA



Would it be better for me to roll back my NVDA then? Or should I stick
this out and hope improvements come along eventually? I can assure you
I didn't have this problem before I updated, but I was concerned the
minor accessibility issues I was having might be due to my having an
outdated version of NVDA on my system.

On 7/08/2020 2:36 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Part of these have to do with speech refactor. Python 3.7 did
contribute somewhat, but we’re basically talking about multiple
changes at once. At the moment NV Access folks are working hard on
improving performance and fixing outstanding Office usability bugs.

Cheers,

Joseph



*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Sean
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:31 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA



Unfortunately, the old stability disappeared with the move to Python3.

I have an Issue about this. But the NVDA team said this would be a
difficult / complex process.
Nothing can be done right now.

1. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11061
2. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10971

On 06/08/2020 07:49, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

So I just finally decided to brave the Python 3 hurdle, and
updated from 2019.2.1 to 2020.2. I've updated the addons I could
and wanted to keep, and they're both working fine.


I am, however, having an odd little issue with the synth's
speech. I'm using ESpeak NG, and the latest NVDA. I'm on Windows
10.

My issue is that occasionally, most often at the ends of
sentences and on the word image in the context of that being an
object, the speech will break up slightly, for a brief but
noticeable fraction of a second. It happens irregularly, and I
don't know what to do to fix it. I asked on a Discord server I'm
a member of, and someone there told me to switch audio output
from Microsoft Sound Mapper to my speakers/headphones. I did
this, but it hasn't helped.


I've also noticed a slight but noticeable lag when deleting
characters, and in single-letter navigation. In the latter, It
takes most of a second before NVDA announces the item the cursor
has moved to after the letter was pressed.


Any help regarding these issues would be sincerely appreciated.




--


Sean

* Email: seantolstoyevski@...
<mailto:seantolstoyevski@...>
* GitHub: SeanTolstoyevski
<https://github.com/SeanTolstoyevski/>

👨‍🦯I’m programmer. I coding often Python, sometimes Go and rarely
C++.


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Tyler Spivey
 

It's perfectly fine to run 2019.2.1. It should keep working for a while.
If it works for you, then great. One thing you might have a problem with
is finding copies of addons that work with it.
The core functionality of NVDA is to speak, so this seems pretty
important to get right.
See the comment I made to #11061 this morning for an easily
reproduceable test case.

On 8/6/2020 2:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

It’s up to you, but at this time, I advise not going to anything earlier
than 2019.3.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Sharni-Lee Ward
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:30 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Would it be better for me to roll back my NVDA then? Or should I stick
this out and hope improvements come along eventually? I can assure you I
didn't have this problem before I updated, but I was concerned the minor
accessibility issues I was having might be due to my having an outdated
version of NVDA on my system.

On 7/08/2020 2:36 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Part of these have to do with speech refactor. Python 3.7 did
contribute somewhat, but we’re basically talking about multiple
changes at once. At the moment NV Access folks are working hard on
improving performance and fixing outstanding Office usability bugs.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Sean
*Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:31 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Unfortunately, the old stability disappeared with the move to Python3.

I have an Issue about this. But the NVDA team said this would be a
difficult / complex process.
Nothing can be done right now.

1. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11061
2. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10971

On 06/08/2020 07:49, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

So I just finally decided to brave the Python 3 hurdle, and
updated from 2019.2.1 to 2020.2. I've updated the addons I could
and wanted to keep, and they're both working fine.


I am, however, having an odd little issue with the synth's
speech. I'm using ESpeak NG, and the latest NVDA. I'm on Windows
10.

My issue is that occasionally, most often at the ends of
sentences and on the word image in the context of that being an
object, the speech will break up slightly, for a brief but
noticeable fraction of a second. It happens irregularly, and I
don't know what to do to fix it. I asked on a Discord server I'm
a member of, and someone there told me to switch audio output
from Microsoft Sound Mapper to my speakers/headphones. I did
this, but it hasn't helped.


I've also noticed a slight but noticeable lag when deleting
characters, and in single-letter navigation. In the latter, It
takes most of a second before NVDA announces the item the cursor
has moved to after the letter was pressed.


Any help regarding these issues would be sincerely appreciated.




--


Sean

* Email: seantolstoyevski@...
<mailto:seantolstoyevski@...>
* GitHub: SeanTolstoyevski <https://github.com/SeanTolstoyevski/>

👨‍🦯I’m programmer. I coding often Python, sometimes Go and rarely
C++.


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

The make is Asus and I don't know off the top of my head what the model is. I do know I have Realtec drivers, and that they were responsible for the internal mike on my laptop being as godawful as it is, but I couldn't find the enhancements for that. My USB mike is far superior so I don't care about it any more.


It should be noted that this never happens with audio from other sources.

On 7/08/2020 7:29 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 05:24 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
I don't know how to check this or how to update the driver without assistance.
-
Which I'm happy to provide, but more information is necessary.  As a starting point, what is the make and model of your computer?
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Issue With Windows Security And Monitoring Virus Scan Progress

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Sarah and Gene,

That works perfectly. I don't know how I missed that one. 

On 8/6/2020 11:09 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Have you considered using object navigation instead of screen review? This is actually what I do and it works beautifully. Simply in laptop mode (I don't use desktop mode ever) do an nvda shift left and right to move between objects, and nvda down and up to interact and not interact with each object. You do not in my experience need to switch modes.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 6 Aug 2020, at 4:37, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hello Group,

Until recently (I am not sure when this started) when I would manually run a Virus scan for Windows security, I could switch to the screen review cursor and look at the dialogue including the progress and setting.  Now when I try this during a scan, all NVDA says is 'blandk.'  Now if I use the read dialogue keystroke insert + B, after reading through a bunch of superfluous items such as the tool bars and system items, I do get the scan progress information read correctly.  This means that it must be recognizable by NVDA at some level.

Has anyone else seen this issue?  If so, is there some way of rectifying the situation?  If NVDA sees it in the read dialogue context, shouldn't it be available in some form so that it can be read more easily?

Thanks for any help.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Hi,

It’s up to you, but at this time, I advise not going to anything earlier than 2019.3.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Would it be better for me to roll back my NVDA then? Or should I stick this out and hope improvements come along eventually? I can assure you I didn't have this problem before I updated, but I was concerned the minor accessibility issues I was having might be due to my having an outdated version of NVDA on my system.

On 7/08/2020 2:36 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Part of these have to do with speech refactor. Python 3.7 did contribute somewhat, but we’re basically talking about multiple changes at once. At the moment NV Access folks are working hard on improving performance and fixing outstanding Office usability bugs.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sean
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech crackling/breaking up in latest NVDA

 

Unfortunately, the old stability disappeared with the move to Python3.

I have an Issue about this. But the NVDA team said this would be a difficult / complex process.
Nothing can be done right now.

1. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11061
2. https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10971

On 06/08/2020 07:49, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

So I just finally decided to brave the Python 3 hurdle, and updated from 2019.2.1 to 2020.2. I've updated the addons I could and wanted to keep, and they're both working fine.


I am, however, having an odd little issue with the synth's speech. I'm using ESpeak NG, and the latest NVDA. I'm on Windows 10.

My issue is that occasionally, most often at the ends of sentences and on the word image in the context of that being an object, the speech will break up slightly, for a brief but noticeable fraction of a second. It happens irregularly, and I don't know what to do to fix it. I asked on a Discord server I'm a member of, and someone there told me to switch audio output from Microsoft Sound Mapper to my speakers/headphones. I did this, but it hasn't helped.


I've also noticed a slight but noticeable lag when deleting characters, and in single-letter navigation. In the latter, It takes most of a second before NVDA announces the item the cursor has moved to after the letter was pressed.


Any help regarding these issues would be sincerely appreciated.




--

Sean

👨🦯 I’m programmer. I coding often Python, sometimes Go and rarely C++.