Date   

Re: New Member

Keao Wright <keaow@...>
 

Ah ok.

Now how do you turn on object navigation?

I would probably need a regular desktop keyboard to use it right?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 7:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

If you use control home, you should move to the beginning of the page.  Home moves to the beginning of the line.  This should happen in any standard edit field.  Browse mode follows all standard windows movement commands used in standard edit fields.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Wow molly, that's awesome, when I hit the home key, it doesn't go to the beginning of the line, it just says top, and I half to hit control home.

Is there also a way you can make it tell you that a webpage is loaded, I can hear the tones, and all, but the pages load fast when you use chrome.


On Dec 24, 2018, at 6:47 AM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I’ve been using Nvda for two years and also find it does everything Jaws can, and in my experience it works better in certain situations. I love the Nvda add ons.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 9:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!

 


Re: New Member

Gene
 

If you use control home, you should move to the beginning of the page.  Home moves to the beginning of the line.  This should happen in any standard edit field.  Browse mode follows all standard windows movement commands used in standard edit fields.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member
 
Wow molly, that's awesome, when I hit the home key, it doesn't go to the beginning of the line, it just says top, and I half to hit control home.
Is there also a way you can make it tell you that a webpage is loaded, I can hear the tones, and all, but the pages load fast when you use chrome.


On Dec 24, 2018, at 6:47 AM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I’ve been using Nvda for two years and also find it does everything Jaws can, and in my experience it works better in certain situations. I love the Nvda add ons.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 9:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!

 


Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Gene
 

I have strong beliefs and feelings about how this subject should be taught.  I shall try to explain them reasonably briefly and clearly.
 
I have no objection to briefly discussing such concepts but after very brief discussion, a number of concrete examples should be given.  Run a program.  Show how you move up the hierarchy  and what is in the different windows until you are out of the program.  Give a little discussion first so the demonstration is in context and explain as you demonstrate again that you are moving up through the hierarchy. 
 
And, while it may make sense to use such terms as parent and child during the initial brief introduction, I find these terms unimportant and cumbersome for nontechnical uses such as this and I don’t think they should continue to be used to any extent. 
You might just say you moved up one level.  Or perhaps initially, in the demonstration of the first tree, you might say, you moved up one level.  You are now in the parent window but that doesn’t matter except technically.  you moved up one level.  I never think in gterms of parent and child window.  I think of one window inside another.  That may be technically incorrect or partly so, but that iss how I think of it and how I experience it.  Window-eyes used to use terms such as parent window and child window when a program would open.  They dropped this because it served no purpose in terms of the general user working with the interface and just was excessive verbiage.
 
I once read a long involved explanation of the Windows interface when I was first learning.  It taught me little of value and was very discouraging.  Then I found material that taught with a little explanation followed by concrete demonstrations and probably discussions during the demonstrations.  I learned wwwell with such material and I found that Windows was very understandable with such teaching methods.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
 
Hi,
I understand that the concept of object hierarchy may not make sense for some at first. But I still believe that it is essential that it is mentioned for sake of completeness and to help folks digest the command sets easily (at least). Also, talking about this concept may or may not open up the doors for discussing how browse mode and screen review works behind the scenes (and to some extent, discuss how accessibility API's sees the GUI world).
A few weeks ago I thought I read a thread here (or somewhere) on how to navigate ribbons. In that thread, someone mentioned pressing down arrow and/or Tab to move down to ribbon items. That thread is one of those that demonstrates how controls are laid out on screen, or in some cases, how they are organized.
Speaking of how things are laid out on screen, I think there is another message that talks about NVDA+B command (read foreground window) and how NVDA won't pick up some controls. This is because NVDA will ignore layout controls (things that are there for layout purposes), termed "simple review mode"; to look at things NVDA won't announce by default via object navigation, one must turn off simple review mode (recent NVDA releases come with an unassigned command to toggle this; this reminds me to talk about simple review mode in more detail soon).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 4:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

But Joseph, this is precisely why people do not understand its concepts. You will be talking to people who may be just about ok with a program open in a window the desktop in another, but not the hierarchy of sub windows inside the application other than, say an open box etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor


Hi,
I beg to differ somewhat:
1. Object hierarchy: without talking about that, object navigation won't make a lot of sense. This is because the commands defined in NVDA will refer to parents, children and so on, and one way to get a grasp of this is hierarchy (how interface elements are organized).
2. Splitting into multiple tutorials: I'd rather not at this point, as the aim is to talk about everything you need to know when it comes to using object navigation (this is the reason why I said I'll include concepts form the user guide along with experiences).

Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,

well, the add-on simplifies object navigation for the normal user. I thought the tutorial was intended to address the normal users incl. beginners. But yes, an advanced user tutorial would ofcourse include also the principles of object hierarchy and the difference between simple and detailed object hierarchy. I don't know if this is understandable for beginners. We must bare in mind that object navigation principles can be very complex and in some cases could overwelm users. I would try to explain it as simple as possible without much developping details. Maybe two or three practical examples would bring more benefits for users than the theoretical principles behind it. But this is only my opinion.

In a second tutorial theoretical principles could be addressed, if people want it.


Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:46
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi,
I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much
better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of
what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on
(what if some people do not wish to use the add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hey Joseph,

maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along
that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much
easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually
too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of
siplings as it is in a browser for example.

Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi,
The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user
guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and
developer.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi Joseph,
I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time.
Many on this list would appreciate it.
Have a merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to all.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi,
In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an
overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use
this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen
(hierarchy, if you will).
I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial
on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite
well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of
preparing for Christmas festivities).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object
navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.

On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion
> of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
> *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
> Goldfield
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
> JAWS cursor
>
> Ann,
>
> I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I
> first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version
> 1.0.
> At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I
> had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a
> while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard
> arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.
>
> A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's
> method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a
> window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't
> want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object
> navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain
> program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in
> Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know
> that some of them would never have been able to deal with object
> navigation.
> However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat
> review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may
> not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard
> review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8
> and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous,
> current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next
> character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen
> reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review
> capability.
>
> David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
> WWW.David-Goldfield.Com <http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>
>
> On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
>
>     My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I
>     struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor
>     often does.
>
>
>
>

































Clock and Calendar: version 18.12.1 reverted due to upgrade bug

 

Hi all,

 

A few days ago Clock and Calendar 18.12.1 was released by add-on authors (not me). Since then, several users discovered a bug where this add-on won’t load settings correctly. Subsequent investigation returned an upgrade bug where the add-on may claim to convert add-on settings to a new format when in fact it wasn’t done properly, caused by the fact that old settings will be saved once NVDA restarts.

 

Thus, the add-on files database has been changed to return version 18.12 of this add-on until a patch is developed, and I’ll be suggesting a possible bug fix to add-on authors.

 

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: New Member

Keao Wright <keaow@...>
 

Wow molly, that's awesome, when I hit the home key, it doesn't go to the beginning of the line, it just says top, and I half to hit control home.
Is there also a way you can make it tell you that a webpage is loaded, I can hear the tones, and all, but the pages load fast when you use chrome.


On Dec 24, 2018, at 6:47 AM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I’ve been using Nvda for two years and also find it does everything Jaws can, and in my experience it works better in certain situations. I love the Nvda add ons.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 9:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!

 


Re: New Member

Clement Chou
 

MY only complaint is that NVDA and office need to learn to work
together much better. At least in the latest versions!

On 12/24/18, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi.

I've been using Nvda for two years and also find it does everything Jaws
can, and in my experience it works better in certain situations. I love the
Nvda add ons.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 9:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member



Just saw your post on the NVDA group. I'm almost sure you are the Keao who
is often in the Dementia Radio chat. I've been using NVDA exclusively
since
2012. I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do
some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all
the
great add ons available. There is an SPL add on that does everything the
JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't
know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and
I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger


















On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I'm from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was
on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it's
great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands
apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!









Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

 

Hi,
I understand that the concept of object hierarchy may not make sense for some at first. But I still believe that it is essential that it is mentioned for sake of completeness and to help folks digest the command sets easily (at least). Also, talking about this concept may or may not open up the doors for discussing how browse mode and screen review works behind the scenes (and to some extent, discuss how accessibility API's sees the GUI world).
A few weeks ago I thought I read a thread here (or somewhere) on how to navigate ribbons. In that thread, someone mentioned pressing down arrow and/or Tab to move down to ribbon items. That thread is one of those that demonstrates how controls are laid out on screen, or in some cases, how they are organized.
Speaking of how things are laid out on screen, I think there is another message that talks about NVDA+B command (read foreground window) and how NVDA won't pick up some controls. This is because NVDA will ignore layout controls (things that are there for layout purposes), termed "simple review mode"; to look at things NVDA won't announce by default via object navigation, one must turn off simple review mode (recent NVDA releases come with an unassigned command to toggle this; this reminds me to talk about simple review mode in more detail soon).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 4:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

But Joseph, this is precisely why people do not understand its concepts. You will be talking to people who may be just about ok with a program open in a window the desktop in another, but not the hierarchy of sub windows inside the application other than, say an open box etc.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor


Hi,
I beg to differ somewhat:
1. Object hierarchy: without talking about that, object navigation won't make a lot of sense. This is because the commands defined in NVDA will refer to parents, children and so on, and one way to get a grasp of this is hierarchy (how interface elements are organized).
2. Splitting into multiple tutorials: I'd rather not at this point, as the aim is to talk about everything you need to know when it comes to using object navigation (this is the reason why I said I'll include concepts form the user guide along with experiences).

Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,

well, the add-on simplifies object navigation for the normal user. I thought the tutorial was intended to address the normal users incl. beginners. But yes, an advanced user tutorial would ofcourse include also the principles of object hierarchy and the difference between simple and detailed object hierarchy. I don't know if this is understandable for beginners. We must bare in mind that object navigation principles can be very complex and in some cases could overwelm users. I would try to explain it as simple as possible without much developping details. Maybe two or three practical examples would bring more benefits for users than the theoretical principles behind it. But this is only my opinion.

In a second tutorial theoretical principles could be addressed, if people want it.


Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:46
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi,
I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much
better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of
what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on
(what if some people do not wish to use the add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hey Joseph,

maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along
that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much
easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually
too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of
siplings as it is in a browser for example.

Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi,
The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user
guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and
developer.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi Joseph,
I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time.
Many on this list would appreciate it.
Have a merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to all.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

Hi,
In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an
overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use
this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen
(hierarchy, if you will).
I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial
on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite
well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of
preparing for Christmas festivities).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS
cursor

I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object
navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.

On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion
of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
Goldfield
*Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
JAWS cursor

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I
first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version
1.0.
At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I
had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a
while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard
arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's
method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a
window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't
want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object
navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain
program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in
Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know
that some of them would never have been able to deal with object
navigation.
However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat
review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may
not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard
review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8
and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous,
current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next
character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen
reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review
capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
WWW.David-Goldfield.Com <http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>

On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I
struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor
often does.




Re: New Member

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I’ve been using Nvda for two years and also find it does everything Jaws can, and in my experience it works better in certain situations. I love the Nvda add ons.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 9:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!

 


Re: New Member

Keao Wright <keaow@...>
 

Alright, good to know.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 6:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

I know there is a way to silence that stuff but I don't remember right now. I'm getting ready for my big 12 hour show so I can't look it up right now but there are several others here who use that add on and Joseph may be in here too and he is the main developer of it.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 10:22 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

That’s me.

I’ve been using the add on for a while and it’s great!

I just wish I could silence the speech when it comes to the columns like duration and stuff like that.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 4:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!

 

 


Re: New Member

Roger Stewart
 

I know there is a way to silence that stuff but I don't remember right now. I'm getting ready for my big 12 hour show so I can't look it up right now but there are several others here who use that add on and Joseph may be in here too and he is the main developer of it.

Roger









On 12/24/2018 10:22 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

That’s me.

I’ve been using the add on for a while and it’s great!

I just wish I could silence the speech when it comes to the columns like duration and stuff like that.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 4:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!

 



Re: New Member

Keao Wright <keaow@...>
 

That’s me.

I’ve been using the add on for a while and it’s great!

I just wish I could silence the speech when it comes to the columns like duration and stuff like that.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 4:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Member

 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!

 


Re: New Member

Roger Stewart
 

Just saw your post on the NVDA group.  I'm almost sure you are the Keao who is often in the Dementia Radio chat.  I've been using NVDA exclusively since 2012.  I find it will do anything JAWS can, and in some cases, it can do some things JAWS can't do and many things it can do better thanks to all the great add ons available.  There is an SPL add on that does everything the JAWS scripts can do and several other little tricks that the script doesn't know how to do.


Hope you will enjoy using NVDA and ask anything you want on the group and I'm sure you'll find the answer.


Roger










On 12/24/2018 12:01 AM, Keao Wright wrote:

Hi, I would like to introduce myself.

I am Keao, and I’m from Hawaii.

I use to be on the old nvda group back in I think in 2004 or 5 when it was on yahoo groups.

I wondered where this group went to, since you guys moved to groups.io it’s great!

Been an NVDA user for almost a year now, still getting use to the commands apart from Jaws.

Glad to meet you all!



Re: Want to resume chkdsk

Gene
 

On an SSD, you shouldn't do a registry compaction for the same reason Windows won't let you do a defrag.  It won't speed anything up and puts unnecessary wear on the drive. 
 
I've seen conflicting opinions about whether compacting a registry, presumably the opinions are discussing a mechanical hard drive, may make any or enough difference to mean something.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to resume chkdsk

If its the drive you want to check, firstly, internal software automatically
fixes the sector errors or replaces bad ones with spares and this goes for
ssds and hard drives. Their firmware is very capable these days.
 Secondly windows ordinary disc checking can do this over a time, but I've
never known an issue. The main issue I have seen is some corruption of the
ntfs file allocation table and the disc check fixes this and hopefully does
not do any damage, but if it detects it may do it can prompt for an sfc or
suggest it.
 In the normal run of things this should not be an issue. Far more likely is
loss of registration of a dll and I've yet to find a foolproof way to fix
that one really though certain people on here suggest a reformat and
reinstall.


One thing to do though is check all power connectors on or in the machine.
particularly those to hard drives as they can and do work loose and this is
the number 1 reason that disc corruption occurs other than a power cut
during a vital write to disc, but even then its often able to be recovered.
   Also do not perform defragas or other disc intensive stuff on SSDs as it
can shorten their lives.
 There should be no need as its not a physical problem.
 The only thing I have found Is say every three months or so, do a registry
compaction on it to get rid of dead stuff  and making it smaller actually
can speed things up a bit.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "farhan israk" <fahim.net.2014@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to resume chkdsk


> Thank you. My computer doesn't have any issue. I want to check my harddisk
> has bad sector or not. Capacity of drives are so high that I can't
> complete
> in 3-4 hours.
>
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018, 5:09 pm Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@... wrote:
>
>> As far as I know you have to let it go to the end as it restarts again
>> after
>> a new start unless there are hidden files which tell it otherwise, but
>> that
>> would be a security issue I'd have thought.
>>  Also be aware that if any software has changed any of the files it scans
>> to
>> ones modified, the old ones will be put back and this will mean those
>> programs will have to be reinstalled again. that has my experience even
>> on
>> windows 7.
>>  What exactly is the issue you are trying to fix?
>>  Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "farhan israk" <fahim.net.2014@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 5:08 AM
>> Subject: [nvda] Want to resume chkdsk
>>
>>
>> >I use Windows 10 1803. Is it possible to pause chkdsk, shut down
>> >computer
>> > and resume after turning on computer?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

Gene
 

If that is your complaint, you can make it without ridiculing what has been said.  You made uncomfortably close to personal attacks in your initial comment.  you can say a thread has veered too far off topic and is generating too much traffic.  Since you have now framed your objections without attacks, I shall deal with your objections differently.  My concern last time was to deal with the almost personal nature of the comments. 
 
There is no perfect solution.  I've been on lists where the owner tightly controled discussion.  The result was resentment and a loss of community.  I believe that, the last time I checked, there are over one-thousand members on the list.  I almost never get comments on this question so I have no idea if there is a majority opinion on the question.  If people wish, they can send comments to the owners' address which is almost at the bottom of every message.  That way, both the owner and I will see them.  There may be advantages and disadvantages to more tightly controling what is allowed for discussion. 
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

It appears to be impossible to nudge list traffic back into the direction of NVDA and associated resources without offending some or many listers and this list is not unique for that.  I selected this thread because although the problem had been long solved the traffic continues in the dozens of messages daily and any list on which the delete function is so heavily used is no longer of value to it’s subscribers and therefore becomes an encumbrance to the product it is intended to support.

This is not the only long redundant thread nor Molly any more than several others.  Several contributors seem unable to fire off message after message on every topic and this includes list monitors. Socialization is a wonderful facility of the Web but there are dozens of lists dedicated to it.

It is easy enough to delete the Merry Christmas messages which clearly have no NVDA knowledge or technical value but missing valuable information by deleting messages which may have value is contrary to the point of the list

I’ve been told and of course there are other screen readers I can use where support and assistance may be less onerous.

In the current spirit I barbecued strip loin steak and shrimps last night for supper with mince tarts and rum butter for desert.  I am smoking pork back ribs tonight and my wife is making a turkey tomorrow. My daughter and her partner are visiting from down south and it is minus 20 outside this morning.  I had to change propane tanks to finish the steaks yesterday.

Hope you all enjoy the trivia 

Cheers. 

Dale Leavens

On Dec 23, 2018, at 11:48 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I understand.

In fact, I’ll be the first to admit that I go off topic for some reason at times.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 11:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

The person wasn’t upset that you wrote that your machine was working.  Of course, if you say you were having problems, people will want to know if you solved them.  The person was complaining about later messages and how the thread kept going and moving off topic.  See my previous message for my response.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

Guys, I’m really sorry if I upset anyone with this topic. I guess most people couldn’t care less if my machine works again, and I can understand why they feel that way. It was not very mature of me to make a post that my tablet is working, because… well,I guess it doesn’t have anything to do with Nvda. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

I agree. If someone doesn't like certain messages, all they have to do is hit the delete key--simple as that.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

Gene, if you allow me to do it, first I would like to congrat you for this answer.
Second, even a time after reading this message I'm not able to get the point of this if it's not free rage or something like that.
I really don't know why people who don't like something aparently just can't pass the message they don't like, whatever it is, and follow by other paths.
Some people seem just unable to make life a little lighter even when they don't need to do much to do it. Anyway...

 


Cheers,
Marcio


Where to find me:
My Yahoo! email
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Follow or add me on Facebook
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Phone(s):
(+55)21-9-81615268 (Tim-RJ)


My WhatsApp


Em 24/12/2018 01:01, Gene escreveu:

A certain amount of off topic discussion is allowed on list.  My opinion is that it helps build a sense of community on the list.  I say this as the moderator.  If you disagree or want to ask the owner his opinion, and that is the controlling opinion, please write using the owners address, found very close to the bottom of every message.  And your characterization of the messages you don’t like is, I believe personally almost attacking.  It is ridicule if nothing else and is unnecessary.

 

Gene, moderator

----- Original Message -----

From: Dale Leavens

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

So your tablet now is talking when you use your keyboard.  It got fixed yesterday if my memory serves.

 

Can we close this topic now?and maybe that WeWalk too?  It is a long time since any messages had anything to do with anything but personal low self esteem or the convenience of carrying dog food and poop bags about as some sort of benefit over using a cane.

 

Merry Christmas!

Dale Leavens


On Dec 23, 2018, at 7:36 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

My surface lags slightly sometimes, but it’s no big deal. I’ll probably upgrade my surface next year. For now I love it… Most of the time.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

I can’t comment on the Surface and I don’t know why the computer you describe was so slow.  I am using a laptop at the moment, as I write this message which I bought in 2011.  It was a reasonably fast machine for its time but nothing out of the ordinary.  I can load Chrome using a blank home page in about three seconds.  The New York Times Home Page loads in

about three seconds.  I can load Windows Live Mail in slightly less than two seconds.

 

It takes about twentyy seconds to get to the login screen when booting and ten or fifteen seconds to get to the desktop when I press enter to log in. 

 

Computers using physical hard drives aren’t slow if they are reasonably fast machines.  And I’m using Windows 7, and many Windows 10 users say that Windows 10 is faster. 

 

And as I said, if I use sleep, I can resume from sleep in two or three seconds.  I just opened Wordpad.  It took about two seconds.  If I open word starter, it takes a good deal longer. It takes about ten seconds.  But after you open Word, you work with documents.  It should take no meanikngfully different time regardless of mechanical or solid state drive to edit a document.  

 

I’m not disputing that a SSD is faster.  I’m saying that for many users, I don’t think the faster time matters in any significant way.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 5:28 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

That sounds more like a memory issue than anything related to your
storage.  Windows these days isn't happy with less than 4GB of ram, and if
you had less than that on that pc, it's no wonder it was slow, since
windows had to swap all the time.  I'd wager that if you upgraded the ram
in that machine, it would run considerably better.

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018, Tyler Wood wrote:

> What world is that in? lol. Unless you're referring to the surface pro 6,
> then it is about on parr with other laptops with solid state storage.
>
>
> I mean, unless you want to go with a 1 tb spinning hard drive and in 2018,
> that's a hard sell.
>
>
> I was using a computer recently that had a core i7-7820HQ (that's a quad core
> processor with 8 threads). It had a mechanical 1 terabyte hard drive, and it
> was made last year.
>
>
> Browsing the web was so much slower than on a machine with a solid state
> drive. It shouldn't be - after all the web browser was already loaded - but
> it was truly painful. Restarting was just about as painful, to. Even
> comparing this to a cheap windows device with a solid state drive - even EMMC
> storage - and I truthfully can't recommend a mechanical hard drive these
> days. And I'm not even getting into general performance. Moving around the
> screen was painfully slow. Opening apps took far longer than a machine with a
> hard drive, even 4 or 5 years ago, used to. I'm not sure if it was the screen
> reader making performance that much worse, but it was similar to using a
> computer, back in the day, that had 256 mb of ram and ran windows xp.
> Browsing the web, while doable, was probably my biggest issue.
>
>
> So, yes, while the surface go is relatively expensive when you increase the
> storage space, it comes with the benefit of having a solid state drive. In
> todays day and age, we think windows 10 is very light on resources. It most
> assuredly is not.
>

 


Re: Merry Christmas and a happy time whatever your faith and creed

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

In other words, let us hope we can all learn to live together without killing one another in the coming years, please!

Together

Together,
We Hate and lie,
Together,
we suffer and cry.
Together,
we fight and die.
Why can't we learn to live,
together.

Brian



bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Merry Christmas


Happy Christmas.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ján Kulik
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 3:29 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io; nvda-translations@groups.io; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Merry Christmas

Hi everione, happy merry Christmas 2018


Re: Portable and installed Version of NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

You will be asked about the config, it will also ask about having nvda on the start and other secure screens, if you opt for this then copying the config may take a while but then all of the settings should be copied over to your installed copy and of curse it will work better on many programs than it did as a portable.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hermann-Josef Kurzen" <ymh005@gmx.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 2:45 AM
Subject: [nvda] Portable and installed Version of NVDA


Hi there,

I am using a portable version of NVDA.
I've also installed some addons. Now I decided to install NVDA on my PC. What about the addons I'm using in the portable version? Will they be integrated into the installed version? Or is it neccessary to installed one by another?


Greetings - Hermann





■■■


Re: my experience using NVDA with a touchscreen

Jonathan Milam
 

Thanks very much for the confirmation. This definitely helps!!


Jonathan



On Dec 23, 2018, at 10:51 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Hi.

I sometimes disconnect the keyboard just to use the touchscreen. Great for watching movies.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] my experience using NVDA with a touchscreen

 

Yes, Janathan, if you have a windows 8.1 tablet, it should most certainly be able to run NVDA with no trouble at all, and the touch screen gestures should work just fine. 

On 12/20/2018 10:05 AM, Jonathan Milam wrote:

Along these same lines, I just received a WIN 8.1 Zeki tablet.  Should it theoretically be able to run NVDA with touch screen capability?

 

Thanks,

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2018 12:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] my experience using NVDA with a touchscreen

 

As mentioned, the procedure is pretty simple to add a gesture.  I just added one for testing, that with a two finger doubletap tells me the time. 

Simply open the NVDA menues,

go to preferences,

input gestures,

system status,

then the first option under that is the description of the shift f12 key, if pressed once, reports time, if pressed twice, reports the date.  You'll want to expand that, then tab to add gesture button.

After that, just perform the gesture you want to speak the time, press enter, and you're all done.

You can use this process to add gestures to any NVDA key function that is listed in that whole series of commands list.  Hope this helps.

 

 

On 12/16/2018 11:44 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

There isn’t really a time and battery status command in touchscreens because they are located on the bottom right side of the screen (doesn’t matter if it is landscape or portrait). This is similar to iPad where you can check time and battery status via the status bar (topmost group of controls on the screen).

In regards to general touchscreen use: it isn’t enough to learn commands provided by the screen reader. Part of what makes touchscreen useful is knowing where things are. For example, on Windows, the screen is typically laid out thus:

  • An app window, below of which is the taskbar and other user interface elements.
  • An app window consists of a band of controls on top for manipulating windows, the content area (including the menu bar/ribbon area), and in some programs, status bars and toolbars.
  • The top band is further divided into the title bar on the left, and window controls (maximize button, minimize button, close button and such) on the right.
  • In some programs, the menu bar is located below the title bar. Some newer programs lack this, and some will come with ribbon (a band of contextual toolbars), most notably in Microsoft Office applications since 2007.
  • Below the menu bar are several band of controls containing contextual buttons.
  • Below the toolbars is the content area (a document, a spreadsheet, a presentation, a media playback area, etc.).
  • In some programs, below the content area sits one or more status bars.
  • Various toolbars may exist on the sides.
  • Below the app window is either the taskbar and other elements, or in some cases, an app may lie on top of another one.
  • The bottom controls on screen consists of (from left to right): Start button, various toolbars and buttons, taskbar, one or more additional buttons, notification area (system tray which contains clock, network status, volume, and on mobile devices, power and battery status, additional icons including that of NVDA), and Show Desktop button (which briefly minimizes all apps and shows icons on the desktop).
  • Various Windows releases may show additional buttons and toolbars on the bottom of the screen (besides taskbar and Start button), including Search and Task View buttons in Windows 10, touch keyboard toggle on tablets, and other controls.

 

At some point in 2019, I will ask NVDA developers if they can document what I just described to you in the user guide, specifically when introducing touchscreen commands. I will also make sure to remind anyone producing touchscreen tutorials of any kind to introduce what’s on screen before introducing touch commands (including a potentially fourth edition of Welcome to NvDA tutorial series).

 

There is an add-on called Enhanced Touch Gestures that makes touchscreen usage a bit easier

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/enhancedTouchGestures.en.html

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2018 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] my experience using NVDA with a touchscreen

 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

I wanted to share my experience using NVDA with a touchscreen.

So I have a Microsoft Surface tablet. It’s one of those pc’s where you can disconnect the keyboard from the touchscreen. I love touchscreen devices, so I was hoping to use it like an iPad. However, it soon became clear that there are far more keyboard commands for NVDA than touch gestures. You can do basic things like swipe and double tap, and even activate the NVDA menu by doing a 2 finger double tap. However, you can’t start NVDA using the touchscreen. For some reason I found myself getting stuck in a particular area of the screen and unable to get out of it. I don’t think there’s a touch gesture to close apps.  I also haven’t found a way to check the time and battery status using the touchscreen. Basically, if you just use the touchscreen, you won’t have a lot of the commands you would have using the keyboard.  I found that  connecting the keyboard is much more efficient. Even using Narrator with the touchscreen is hard sometimes. While I appreciate that NVDA supports touch gestures, I would still recommend for anyone to use a physical keyboard. I’m glad I purchased the keyboard. Sold separately, apparently.  


Re: Want to resume chkdsk

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If its the drive you want to check, firstly, internal software automatically fixes the sector errors or replaces bad ones with spares and this goes for ssds and hard drives. Their firmware is very capable these days.
Secondly windows ordinary disc checking can do this over a time, but I've never known an issue. The main issue I have seen is some corruption of the ntfs file allocation table and the disc check fixes this and hopefully does not do any damage, but if it detects it may do it can prompt for an sfc or suggest it.
In the normal run of things this should not be an issue. Far more likely is loss of registration of a dll and I've yet to find a foolproof way to fix that one really though certain people on here suggest a reformat and reinstall.


One thing to do though is check all power connectors on or in the machine. particularly those to hard drives as they can and do work loose and this is the number 1 reason that disc corruption occurs other than a power cut during a vital write to disc, but even then its often able to be recovered.
Also do not perform defragas or other disc intensive stuff on SSDs as it can shorten their lives.
There should be no need as its not a physical problem.
The only thing I have found Is say every three months or so, do a registry compaction on it to get rid of dead stuff and making it smaller actually can speed things up a bit.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "farhan israk" <fahim.net.2014@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Want to resume chkdsk


Thank you. My computer doesn't have any issue. I want to check my harddisk
has bad sector or not. Capacity of drives are so high that I can't complete
in 3-4 hours.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018, 5:09 pm Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io wrote:

As far as I know you have to let it go to the end as it restarts again
after
a new start unless there are hidden files which tell it otherwise, but
that
would be a security issue I'd have thought.
Also be aware that if any software has changed any of the files it scans
to
ones modified, the old ones will be put back and this will mean those
programs will have to be reinstalled again. that has my experience even on
windows 7.
What exactly is the issue you are trying to fix?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "farhan israk" <fahim.net.2014@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 5:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] Want to resume chkdsk


I use Windows 10 1803. Is it possible to pause chkdsk, shut down computer
and resume after turning on computer?








Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

But Joseph, this is precisely why people do not understand its concepts. You will be talking to people who may be just about ok with a program open in a window the desktop in another, but not the hierarchy of sub windows inside the application other than, say an open box etc.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor


Hi,
I beg to differ somewhat:
1. Object hierarchy: without talking about that, object navigation won't make a lot of sense. This is because the commands defined in NVDA will refer to parents, children and so on, and one way to get a grasp of this is hierarchy (how interface elements are organized).
2. Splitting into multiple tutorials: I'd rather not at this point, as the aim is to talk about everything you need to know when it comes to using object navigation (this is the reason why I said I'll include concepts form the user guide along with experiences).

Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,

well, the add-on simplifies object navigation for the normal user. I thought the tutorial was intended to address the normal users incl. beginners. But yes, an advanced user tutorial would ofcourse include also the principles of object hierarchy and the difference between simple and detailed object hierarchy. I don't know if this is understandable for beginners. We must bare in mind that object navigation principles can be very complex and in some cases could overwelm users. I would try to explain it as simple as possible without much developping details. Maybe two or three practical examples would bring more benefits for users than the theoretical principles behind it. But this is only my opinion.

In a second tutorial theoretical principles could be addressed, if people want it.


Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:46
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,
I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on (what if some people do not wish to use the add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hey Joseph,

maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of siplings as it is in a browser for example.

Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,
The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi Joseph,
I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it.
Have a merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to all.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,
In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will).
I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.

On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion
of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
Goldfield
*Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
JAWS cursor

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I
first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0.
At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I
had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a
while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard
arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's
method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a
window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't
want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object
navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain
program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in
Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know
that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation.
However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat
review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may
not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard
review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8
and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous,
current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next
character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen
reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
WWW.David-Goldfield.Com <http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>

On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I
struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor
often does.




Re: fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

Dale Leavens
 

It appears to be impossible to nudge list traffic back into the direction of NVDA and associated resources without offending some or many listers and this list is not unique for that.  I selected this thread because although the problem had been long solved the traffic continues in the dozens of messages daily and any list on which the delete function is so heavily used is no longer of value to it’s subscribers and therefore becomes an encumbrance to the product it is intended to support.

This is not the only long redundant thread nor Molly any more than several others.  Several contributors seem unable to fire off message after message on every topic and this includes list monitors. Socialization is a wonderful facility of the Web but there are dozens of lists dedicated to it.

It is easy enough to delete the Merry Christmas messages which clearly have no NVDA knowledge or technical value but missing valuable information by deleting messages which may have value is contrary to the point of the list

I’ve been told and of course there are other screen readers I can use where support and assistance may be less onerous.

In the current spirit I barbecued strip loin steak and shrimps last night for supper with mince tarts and rum butter for desert.  I am smoking pork back ribs tonight and my wife is making a turkey tomorrow. My daughter and her partner are visiting from down south and it is minus 20 outside this morning.  I had to change propane tanks to finish the steaks yesterday.

Hope you all enjoy the trivia 

Cheers. 

Dale Leavens

On Dec 23, 2018, at 11:48 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I understand.

In fact, I’ll be the first to admit that I go off topic for some reason at times.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 11:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

The person wasn’t upset that you wrote that your machine was working.  Of course, if you say you were having problems, people will want to know if you solved them.  The person was complaining about later messages and how the thread kept going and moving off topic.  See my previous message for my response.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

Guys, I’m really sorry if I upset anyone with this topic. I guess most people couldn’t care less if my machine works again, and I can understand why they feel that way. It was not very mature of me to make a post that my tablet is working, because… well,I guess it doesn’t have anything to do with Nvda. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

I agree. If someone doesn't like certain messages, all they have to do is hit the delete key--simple as that.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

Gene, if you allow me to do it, first I would like to congrat you for this answer.
Second, even a time after reading this message I'm not able to get the point of this if it's not free rage or something like that.
I really don't know why people who don't like something aparently just can't pass the message they don't like, whatever it is, and follow by other paths.
Some people seem just unable to make life a little lighter even when they don't need to do much to do it. Anyway...

Em 24/12/2018 01:01, Gene escreveu:

A certain amount of off topic discussion is allowed on list.  My opinion is that it helps build a sense of community on the list.  I say this as the moderator.  If you disagree or want to ask the owner his opinion, and that is the controlling opinion, please write using the owners address, found very close to the bottom of every message.  And your characterization of the messages you don’t like is, I believe personally almost attacking.  It is ridicule if nothing else and is unnecessary.

 

Gene, moderator

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

So your tablet now is talking when you use your keyboard.  It got fixed yesterday if my memory serves.

 

Can we close this topic now?and maybe that WeWalk too?  It is a long time since any messages had anything to do with anything but personal low self esteem or the convenience of carrying dog food and poop bags about as some sort of benefit over using a cane.

 

Merry Christmas!

Dale Leavens


On Dec 23, 2018, at 7:36 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

My surface lags slightly sometimes, but it’s no big deal. I’ll probably upgrade my surface next year. For now I love it… Most of the time.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 7:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

I can’t comment on the Surface and I don’t know why the computer you describe was so slow.  I am using a laptop at the moment, as I write this message which I bought in 2011.  It was a reasonably fast machine for its time but nothing out of the ordinary.  I can load Chrome using a blank home page in about three seconds.  The New York Times Home Page loads in

about three seconds.  I can load Windows Live Mail in slightly less than two seconds.

 

It takes about twentyy seconds to get to the login screen when booting and ten or fifteen seconds to get to the desktop when I press enter to log in. 

 

Computers using physical hard drives aren’t slow if they are reasonably fast machines.  And I’m using Windows 7, and many Windows 10 users say that Windows 10 is faster. 

 

And as I said, if I use sleep, I can resume from sleep in two or three seconds.  I just opened Wordpad.  It took about two seconds.  If I open word starter, it takes a good deal longer. It takes about ten seconds.  But after you open Word, you work with documents.  It should take no meanikngfully different time regardless of mechanical or solid state drive to edit a document.  

 

I’m not disputing that a SSD is faster.  I’m saying that for many users, I don’t think the faster time matters in any significant way.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 5:28 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

 

That sounds more like a memory issue than anything related to your
storage.  Windows these days isn't happy with less than 4GB of ram, and if
you had less than that on that pc, it's no wonder it was slow, since
windows had to swap all the time.  I'd wager that if you upgraded the ram
in that machine, it would run considerably better.

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018, Tyler Wood wrote:

> What world is that in? lol. Unless you're referring to the surface pro 6,
> then it is about on parr with other laptops with solid state storage.
>
>
> I mean, unless you want to go with a 1 tb spinning hard drive and in 2018,
> that's a hard sell.
>
>
> I was using a computer recently that had a core i7-7820HQ (that's a quad core
> processor with 8 threads). It had a mechanical 1 terabyte hard drive, and it
> was made last year.
>
>
> Browsing the web was so much slower than on a machine with a solid state
> drive. It shouldn't be - after all the web browser was already loaded - but
> it was truly painful. Restarting was just about as painful, to. Even
> comparing this to a cheap windows device with a solid state drive - even EMMC
> storage - and I truthfully can't recommend a mechanical hard drive these
> days. And I'm not even getting into general performance. Moving around the
> screen was painfully slow. Opening apps took far longer than a machine with a
> hard drive, even 4 or 5 years ago, used to. I'm not sure if it was the screen
> reader making performance that much worse, but it was similar to using a
> computer, back in the day, that had 256 mb of ram and ran windows xp.
> Browsing the web, while doable, was probably my biggest issue.
>
>
> So, yes, while the surface go is relatively expensive when you increase the
> storage space, it comes with the benefit of having a solid state drive. In
> todays day and age, we think windows 10 is very light on resources. It most
> assuredly is not.
>