Date   

Re: StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #addonrelease

 

Hi,

One major clarification: my statement regarding “not providing a meaningful fix” should not be taken as an indication that I’m giving up. In the past, I’ve been known for seemingly forgetting an issue, only to come back to it months later.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 6:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #AddonRelease

 

Hi,

When I go to Historical weather tab and select temperature, then press Tab to move around, each month button is labeled with high, low and other information. When one presses Enter to activate the button, the stats do change on screen but isn’t announced by Narrator nor NVDA. When I probe UIA event activities, it does allow NVDA to see that name change took place, but it is done on a per item basis – for example, for January, one of the name change text is just the year (2017) instead of a more meaningful summary. Because it is known that property change events may happen out of order (observed multiple times with live region change events in some universal apps), I’m a bit hesitant as to how to proceed with providing a meaningful fix for you.

Sorry about that.

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 5:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #AddonRelease

 

Hi Joseph,

 

You keep updating the Windows Ten App essentials almost monthly for several months now.  I am wondering if the issue with weather history will be improved.  Sighted people say that when they click on an item such as temperature and then on a month, another box opens and they see the highs and lows for every day within that month and other information.  The same goes for rainfall and snowfall.  Yet with all these incessant updates, this issue has not changed.  All we get is the monthly average with a button that doesn't activate anything or open any new boxes or screens.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

On 12/28/2018 2:38 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

First, for those celebrating it, hope your New Year’s Day preparation is going well. May 2019 be a great year for the NVDA community.

 

I’m delighted to announce the release of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01. StationPlaylist Studio add-on is used to help broadcasters using SPL suite of application with producing their shows, and Windows 10 App Essentials is a must have add-on for improved usability of Windows 10.

 

The most important thing you’ll notice with these releases is saying goodbye to standalone add-on update checks. Until Add-on Updater appeared, these two were part of a handful of add-ons that can check for updated versions of themselves. Now that Add-on Updater is stable and recommended by add-on authors, I hereby announce that, starting from this release, the ability to check for updated versions of these add-ons will be assumed by Add-on Updater, not by these add-ons. As a consequence of this, when you restart NVDA after installing these releases for the first time, you’ll get a message informing you of this change (for those using StationPlaylist add-on, the first time you start Studio after installing add-on 19.01).

 

Additional notes:

 

StationPlaylist Studio:

  • Version 19.01 isn’t the only release today – if you’re using 18.09.5-LTS (longterm channel) release, you’ll be asked to update to 18.09.6-LTS. Just like 19.01, 18.09.6-LTS will also present add-on update check warning.
  • The source code that powers standalone add-on update checks will be removed in 19.02; it’ll be kept in 18.09.x series (although to be disabled in the next LTS release) to serve as a reference for anyone wishing to learn how Add-on Updater’s update check facility came to be.
  • Version 19.01 (for LTS people, 18.09.6-LTS) is first of two mandatory updates (the next one is 19.02, and for LTS, 18.09.7 in March 2019).
  • Today’s releases require NVDA 2018.4 or later. In terms of Studio, 19.01 requires 5.11, whereas 18.09.6 will run happily on 5.10.
  • Sometime in 2019, a 19.x version will ask you to update to studio 5.20 or later. I’ll give you sixty days’ notice before making the switch.
  • For those on longterm (LTS) channel, 18.09.6 is one of the last mainstream maintenance versions where features from 19.x can be backported. After NVDA 2019.1 is released (later in 2019), 18.09.x will enter bug fix only mode.

 

Windows 10 App Essentials:

  • Version 19.01.x is the last release series to run on Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299). Version 19.02 will require Version 1803 (April 2018 Update/build 17134) or later.
  • Although this release supports expanded input panel in latest Windows Insider Preview build, things can change without notice.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

get the blind swordsman from the below link;

http://evildogserver.com/theblindswordsman/theblindswordsmanPC.zip



This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons.


Homepage; 

On 29 Dec 2018, at 9.03 AM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (brainardmolly@...) Add cleanup rule | More info

Hey guys.

There used to be this game for Windows called The Blind Swordsman. It was an audio game. I don’t know if it’s still around, though. I believe it was free or something.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.

Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal

 


Re: StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #addonrelease

 

Hi,

When I go to Historical weather tab and select temperature, then press Tab to move around, each month button is labeled with high, low and other information. When one presses Enter to activate the button, the stats do change on screen but isn’t announced by Narrator nor NVDA. When I probe UIA event activities, it does allow NVDA to see that name change took place, but it is done on a per item basis – for example, for January, one of the name change text is just the year (2017) instead of a more meaningful summary. Because it is known that property change events may happen out of order (observed multiple times with live region change events in some universal apps), I’m a bit hesitant as to how to proceed with providing a meaningful fix for you.

Sorry about that.

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 5:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #AddonRelease

 

Hi Joseph,

 

You keep updating the Windows Ten App essentials almost monthly for several months now.  I am wondering if the issue with weather history will be improved.  Sighted people say that when they click on an item such as temperature and then on a month, another box opens and they see the highs and lows for every day within that month and other information.  The same goes for rainfall and snowfall.  Yet with all these incessant updates, this issue has not changed.  All we get is the monthly average with a button that doesn't activate anything or open any new boxes or screens.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

On 12/28/2018 2:38 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

First, for those celebrating it, hope your New Year’s Day preparation is going well. May 2019 be a great year for the NVDA community.

 

I’m delighted to announce the release of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01. StationPlaylist Studio add-on is used to help broadcasters using SPL suite of application with producing their shows, and Windows 10 App Essentials is a must have add-on for improved usability of Windows 10.

 

The most important thing you’ll notice with these releases is saying goodbye to standalone add-on update checks. Until Add-on Updater appeared, these two were part of a handful of add-ons that can check for updated versions of themselves. Now that Add-on Updater is stable and recommended by add-on authors, I hereby announce that, starting from this release, the ability to check for updated versions of these add-ons will be assumed by Add-on Updater, not by these add-ons. As a consequence of this, when you restart NVDA after installing these releases for the first time, you’ll get a message informing you of this change (for those using StationPlaylist add-on, the first time you start Studio after installing add-on 19.01).

 

Additional notes:

 

StationPlaylist Studio:

  • Version 19.01 isn’t the only release today – if you’re using 18.09.5-LTS (longterm channel) release, you’ll be asked to update to 18.09.6-LTS. Just like 19.01, 18.09.6-LTS will also present add-on update check warning.
  • The source code that powers standalone add-on update checks will be removed in 19.02; it’ll be kept in 18.09.x series (although to be disabled in the next LTS release) to serve as a reference for anyone wishing to learn how Add-on Updater’s update check facility came to be.
  • Version 19.01 (for LTS people, 18.09.6-LTS) is first of two mandatory updates (the next one is 19.02, and for LTS, 18.09.7 in March 2019).
  • Today’s releases require NVDA 2018.4 or later. In terms of Studio, 19.01 requires 5.11, whereas 18.09.6 will run happily on 5.10.
  • Sometime in 2019, a 19.x version will ask you to update to studio 5.20 or later. I’ll give you sixty days’ notice before making the switch.
  • For those on longterm (LTS) channel, 18.09.6 is one of the last mainstream maintenance versions where features from 19.x can be backported. After NVDA 2019.1 is released (later in 2019), 18.09.x will enter bug fix only mode.

 

Windows 10 App Essentials:

  • Version 19.01.x is the last release series to run on Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299). Version 19.02 will require Version 1803 (April 2018 Update/build 17134) or later.
  • Although this release supports expanded input panel in latest Windows Insider Preview build, things can change without notice.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hey guys.

There used to be this game for Windows called The Blind Swordsman. It was an audio game. I don’t know if it’s still around, though. I believe it was free or something.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.

Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal

 


Re: I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I think the Windows insider was not for me. It was great at first but then things went terribly wrong. It feels so good to have a stable machine  😊

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Let others swim in the deep water. If you get a lab machine, have at Windows Insider. 😊

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

As I may have mentioned last week or so, I had a problem where when installing add-ons, they would not install correctly. This kept occurring. Well, I did a new install of Windows, going back to what I guess is the current stable version of Windows, version 17763. Well, not only did it fix all the problems I’d been experiencing, but I now have no issues at all installing add-ons. The issue must have been the insider program, which I am officially opted out of.  The machine works so much better now. I am happy.  😊


Re: NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

 

I don't know about it but got interested too. Waiting on this.
Em 28/12/2018 23:21, Pascal Lambert escreveu:

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal



Re: I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Let others swim in the deep water. If you get a lab machine, have at Windows Insider. 😊

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

As I may have mentioned last week or so, I had a problem where when installing add-ons, they would not install correctly. This kept occurring. Well, I did a new install of Windows, going back to what I guess is the current stable version of Windows, version 17763. Well, not only did it fix all the problems I’d been experiencing, but I now have no issues at all installing add-ons. The issue must have been the insider program, which I am officially opted out of.  The machine works so much better now. I am happy.  😊


Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Nimer Jaber
 

I don't have a lot to contribute to this discussion except to say that I do observe lag in NEVADA, especially as compared to JAWS, but more extreme as it relates to Narrator. Narrator in Edge on the web is veery, very responsive, particularly in web apps. NVDA, not so much. When talking about lag, it is a bit subjective because you may not observe lag if you are used to using something and it has worked the same way for you. But when you compare to other options, I think the lag is noticeable. It is for me at any rate. And as for Facebook... I think many blind individuals find the regular site cluttered because they are trying to navigate it like a regular web page, or maybe they notice the lag that is present when navigating it. Facebook is intended to be used like other web apps, with shortcuts and hotkeys that are native to Facebook. It is not intended to be used by navigating it like a regular web page. It should be able to be used that way, and NVDA should not hang and lag on "cluttered" sites, but the best experience with the regular Facebook, as is with Twitter and Gmail and others, is to use the hotkeys supplied by the site as intended.

Thanks.

On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 6:09 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
These kinds of problems were discussed perhaps two weeks ago.  I'm surprised no one has commented on that discussion.  I don't have the technical knowledgte to discuss it knowledgeablely but maybe my comments will elicit a response from those who know more. 
 
The discussion was about NVDA changing focus on web sites where events cause something to happen as you move around the site.  I think its JAVA scripts that cause events to happen of the kind discussed.  There is some problem with the way NVDA moves or responds or doesn't respond quickly enough to such events and Facebook was discussed as one of the sites. 
 
I don't know what is or isn't being considered as far as remedying the problem.  Maybe we'll find out more now.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Annette,
Why do you think it's Amazon or Firefox to blame for sluggishness and
not NVDA? Why do you think it's the website that decides to play nice
occasionally, and not NVDA?

--Tony


On 12/28/18, Annette Moore <angelgirl52376@...> wrote:
> I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
> amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or
> firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has
> anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play
> nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the
> "buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to
> get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way
> too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't
> like it at all, so I don't use it.
>
> Annette
>
> On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
>> I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or
>> faster speed.  I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that.  I use
>> all kinds of websites;  n g os, corporate, government and private.
>> N v d a is not perfect, but it  does 99 percent  of what I need.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
>> Malykh
>> Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook
>>
>> Hi Felix,
>> I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a
>> big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
>> Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the
>> same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have
>> to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these
>> symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely
>> unusable.
>>
>> I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
>> users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on
>> this list. I think that:
>>
>> 1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which
>> probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not
>> be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into
>> edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
>> Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
>> 2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot
>> figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people
>> will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead.
>> It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that
>> doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the
>> issue is there to begin with.
>> 3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser.
>> Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in
>> Firefox.
>>
>> Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA
>> devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this
>> problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's
>> going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered
>> by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have
>> tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So
>> in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.
>>
>> Best
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
>>> Hello Enes and list,
>>> sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
>>> user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
>>> that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
>>> screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
>>> So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
>>> reader theology, with the following results:
>>> The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
>>> of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
>>> You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
>>> answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
>>> supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
>>> JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
>>> in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
>>> mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
>>> snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
>>> NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
>>> middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
>>> it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
>>> unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
>>> spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
>>> has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
>>> being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
>>> the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
>>> using Facebook.
>>> If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
>>> of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
>>> approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
>>> reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
>>> suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
>>> decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
>>> demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
>>> isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
>>> permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
>>> All the best,
>>> Felix
>>>
>>> Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
>>> <enes.saribas@...>:
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
>>>> heard more about by now.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
>>>>> browser one?
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Felix
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
>>>>> <enes.saribas@...>:
>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
>>>>>> which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
>>>>>> facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
>>>>>> or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
>>>>>> database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
>>>>>> NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
>>>>>> implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>> is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
>>>>>>> navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
>>>>>>> down to a crawl?
>>>>>>> In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
>>>>>>> jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
>>>>>>> and random switches to focus mode.
>>>>>>> Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
>>>>>>> mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
>>>>>>> Facebook itself?
>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>> Felix
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

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I think I know what caused my Nvda add-ons not to install correctly

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hey guys, Molly here again.

As I may have mentioned last week or so, I had a problem where when installing add-ons, they would not install correctly. This kept occurring. Well, I did a new install of Windows, going back to what I guess is the current stable version of Windows, version 17763. Well, not only did it fix all the problems I’d been experiencing, but I now have no issues at all installing add-ons. The issue must have been the insider program, which I am officially opted out of.  The machine works so much better now. I am happy.  😊


Re: StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #addonrelease

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Joseph,


You keep updating the Windows Ten App essentials almost monthly for several months now.  I am wondering if the issue with weather history will be improved.  Sighted people say that when they click on an item such as temperature and then on a month, another box opens and they see the highs and lows for every day within that month and other information.  The same goes for rainfall and snowfall.  Yet with all these incessant updates, this issue has not changed.  All we get is the monthly average with a button that doesn't activate anything or open any new boxes or screens.


Thanks for any help.


On 12/28/2018 2:38 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

First, for those celebrating it, hope your New Year’s Day preparation is going well. May 2019 be a great year for the NVDA community.

 

I’m delighted to announce the release of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01. StationPlaylist Studio add-on is used to help broadcasters using SPL suite of application with producing their shows, and Windows 10 App Essentials is a must have add-on for improved usability of Windows 10.

 

The most important thing you’ll notice with these releases is saying goodbye to standalone add-on update checks. Until Add-on Updater appeared, these two were part of a handful of add-ons that can check for updated versions of themselves. Now that Add-on Updater is stable and recommended by add-on authors, I hereby announce that, starting from this release, the ability to check for updated versions of these add-ons will be assumed by Add-on Updater, not by these add-ons. As a consequence of this, when you restart NVDA after installing these releases for the first time, you’ll get a message informing you of this change (for those using StationPlaylist add-on, the first time you start Studio after installing add-on 19.01).

 

Additional notes:

 

StationPlaylist Studio:

  • Version 19.01 isn’t the only release today – if you’re using 18.09.5-LTS (longterm channel) release, you’ll be asked to update to 18.09.6-LTS. Just like 19.01, 18.09.6-LTS will also present add-on update check warning.
  • The source code that powers standalone add-on update checks will be removed in 19.02; it’ll be kept in 18.09.x series (although to be disabled in the next LTS release) to serve as a reference for anyone wishing to learn how Add-on Updater’s update check facility came to be.
  • Version 19.01 (for LTS people, 18.09.6-LTS) is first of two mandatory updates (the next one is 19.02, and for LTS, 18.09.7 in March 2019).
  • Today’s releases require NVDA 2018.4 or later. In terms of Studio, 19.01 requires 5.11, whereas 18.09.6 will run happily on 5.10.
  • Sometime in 2019, a 19.x version will ask you to update to studio 5.20 or later. I’ll give you sixty days’ notice before making the switch.
  • For those on longterm (LTS) channel, 18.09.6 is one of the last mainstream maintenance versions where features from 19.x can be backported. After NVDA 2019.1 is released (later in 2019), 18.09.x will enter bug fix only mode.

 

Windows 10 App Essentials:

  • Version 19.01.x is the last release series to run on Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299). Version 19.02 will require Version 1803 (April 2018 Update/build 17134) or later.
  • Although this release supports expanded input panel in latest Windows Insider Preview build, things can change without notice.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


NVDA and Battleship and Memory games

Pascal Lambert <coccinelle86@...>
 

Hi All,

First best wishes for a happy, serene, and successful new year 2019 to all.

Anyone would know where to get the classic games Battleship and Memory, I believe, created by Robert Bates for Win 10?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal


Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Gene
 

These kinds of problems were discussed perhaps two weeks ago.  I'm surprised no one has commented on that discussion.  I don't have the technical knowledgte to discuss it knowledgeablely but maybe my comments will elicit a response from those who know more. 
 
The discussion was about NVDA changing focus on web sites where events cause something to happen as you move around the site.  I think its JAVA scripts that cause events to happen of the kind discussed.  There is some problem with the way NVDA moves or responds or doesn't respond quickly enough to such events and Facebook was discussed as one of the sites. 
 
I don't know what is or isn't being considered as far as remedying the problem.  Maybe we'll find out more now.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Annette,
Why do you think it's Amazon or Firefox to blame for sluggishness and
not NVDA? Why do you think it's the website that decides to play nice
occasionally, and not NVDA?

--Tony


On 12/28/18, Annette Moore <angelgirl52376@...> wrote:
> I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
> amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or
> firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has
> anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play
> nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the
> "buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to
> get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way
> too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't
> like it at all, so I don't use it.
>
> Annette
>
> On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
>> I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or
>> faster speed.  I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that.  I use
>> all kinds of websites;  n g os, corporate, government and private.
>> N v d a is not perfect, but it  does 99 percent  of what I need.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
>> Malykh
>> Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook
>>
>> Hi Felix,
>> I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a
>> big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
>> Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the
>> same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have
>> to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these
>> symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely
>> unusable.
>>
>> I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
>> users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on
>> this list. I think that:
>>
>> 1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which
>> probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not
>> be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into
>> edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
>> Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
>> 2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot
>> figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people
>> will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead.
>> It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that
>> doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the
>> issue is there to begin with.
>> 3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser.
>> Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in
>> Firefox.
>>
>> Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA
>> devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this
>> problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's
>> going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered
>> by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have
>> tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So
>> in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.
>>
>> Best
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
>>> Hello Enes and list,
>>> sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
>>> user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
>>> that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
>>> screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
>>> So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
>>> reader theology, with the following results:
>>> The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
>>> of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
>>> You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
>>> answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
>>> supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
>>> JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
>>> in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
>>> mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
>>> snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
>>> NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
>>> middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
>>> it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
>>> unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
>>> spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
>>> has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
>>> being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
>>> the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
>>> using Facebook.
>>> If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
>>> of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
>>> approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
>>> reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
>>> suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
>>> decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
>>> demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
>>> isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
>>> permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
>>> All the best,
>>> Felix
>>>
>>> Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
>>> <enes.saribas@...>:
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
>>>> heard more about by now.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
>>>>> browser one?
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Felix
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
>>>>> <enes.saribas@...>:
>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
>>>>>> which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
>>>>>> facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
>>>>>> or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
>>>>>> database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
>>>>>> NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
>>>>>> implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>> is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
>>>>>>> navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
>>>>>>> down to a crawl?
>>>>>>> In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
>>>>>>> jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
>>>>>>> and random switches to focus mode.
>>>>>>> Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
>>>>>>> mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
>>>>>>> Facebook itself?
>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>> Felix
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Richard Wells
 

The latest version of Sharp Keys is 3.8 and it can be obtained here: http://www.randyrants.com/sharpkeys38.zip and you can literally map any key to any other key. I have hit a rash of machines lately without an application-key and I just remap some useless key to that one. It is a wonderful thing and is read perfectly with NVDA.

On 12/28/2018 3:58 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Sharp keys is an app that allows you to map a lot of keys. It is a bit daunting to set up but very doable if u just go slowly through the process. I can't remember the dev at this time but if you search for "sharpkeys" on google you should be able to find it.

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:50, Darren Harris via Groups.Io wrote:

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Annette Moore
 

Because firefox tends to be sluggish anyway, and Amazon is becoming more and more cluttered. It's like that with System Access too, not just NVDA. I don't use JAWS so I can't comment there. And if NVDA were totally to blame, I would think it would be sluggish in other areas as well. Of course, my laptop is over five years old now, so that could be a contributing factor as well. Computers tend to slow down somewhat as they age. It's nothing I can't live with, though, and since I like the layout of Firefox, I just deal with the occasional sluggishness, especially when it first opens. I wish you the best in finding a solution to the sluggishness you're experiencing, whatever the cause of the issue. If it is on the part of NVDA, I'm sure it'll be addressed. Everyone out here seems to be very gracious and helpful.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 4:29 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:

Annette,
Why do you think it's Amazon or Firefox to blame for sluggishness and
not NVDA? Why do you think it's the website that decides to play nice
occasionally, and not NVDA?

--Tony


On 12/28/18, Annette Moore <angelgirl52376@gmail.com> wrote:
I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or
firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has
anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play
nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the
"buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to
get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way
too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't
like it at all, so I don't use it.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or
faster speed. I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that. I use
all kinds of websites; n g os, corporate, government and private.
N v d a is not perfect, but it does 99 percent of what I need.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
Malykh
Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a
big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the
same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have
to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these
symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely
unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on
this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which
probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not
be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into
edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot
figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people
will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead.
It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that
doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the
issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser.
Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in
Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA
devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this
problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's
going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered
by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have
tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So
in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
heard more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
browser one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
down to a crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
and random switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
Facebook itself?
All the best,
Felix







Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

Try m.facebook.com with Firefox. That works best for me.
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...


Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Tony Malykh
 

Annette,
Why do you think it's Amazon or Firefox to blame for sluggishness and
not NVDA? Why do you think it's the website that decides to play nice
occasionally, and not NVDA?

--Tony

On 12/28/18, Annette Moore <angelgirl52376@gmail.com> wrote:
I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or
firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has
anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play
nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the
"buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to
get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way
too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't
like it at all, so I don't use it.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or
faster speed. I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that. I use
all kinds of websites; n g os, corporate, government and private.
N v d a is not perfect, but it does 99 percent of what I need.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
Malykh
Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a
big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the
same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have
to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these
symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely
unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on
this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which
probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not
be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into
edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot
figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people
will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead.
It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that
doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the
issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser.
Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in
Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA
devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this
problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's
going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered
by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have
tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So
in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
heard more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
browser one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
down to a crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
and random switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
Facebook itself?
All the best,
Felix










Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Gene
 

If I had a laptop without a numpad, I would use a USB numpad.  I really don't like the laptop layout and since the external numpad would have an insert, that would be much more convenient than using other possible mapped keys or caps lock for most things.  I use caps lock but only for the speak to end command.  I use numpad insert for the NVDA key for all other commands that use the NVDA key.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Do you think it could be the keyboard that is an issue if that is the case I wonder if it’s worth while just to prove a point trying an external one?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Sharp keys is an app that allows you to map a lot of keys. It is a bit daunting to set up but very doable if u just go slowly through the process. I can't remember the dev at this time but if you search for "sharpkeys" on google you should be able to find it.

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:50, Darren Harris via Groups.Io wrote:

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Darren Harris
 

Do you think it could be the keyboard that is an issue if that is the case I wonder if it’s worth while just to prove a point trying an external one?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Sharp keys is an app that allows you to map a lot of keys. It is a bit daunting to set up but very doable if u just go slowly through the process. I can't remember the dev at this time but if you search for "sharpkeys" on google you should be able to find it.

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:50, Darren Harris via Groups.Io wrote:

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Sarah k Alawami
 

Sharp keys is an app that allows you to map a lot of keys. It is a bit daunting to set up but very doable if u just go slowly through the process. I can't remember the dev at this time but if you search for "sharpkeys" on google you should be able to find it.

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:50, Darren Harris via Groups.Io wrote:

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Darren Harris
 

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.