Date   

Re: Column shifting in large tables

Jonathan Milam
 

It isn’t unfortunately.  It is part of my employer’s intranet and requires VPN access.

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 10:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Column shifting in large tables

 

Is the page where this table occurs accessible to the general public?  If so, would you share the URL?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Column shifting in large tables

 

Is the page where this table occurs accessible to the general public?  If so, would you share the URL?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Column shifting in large tables

Jonathan Milam
 

I have, actually.  Voiceover doesn’t even see it as a table, but I am not seeing the shifting issue with JAWS, however, the latency navigating with JAWS prevents it from even being a solution.  I even tried Chromevox in Chrome but I am unable to navigate the table with it either, due to the latency.  I think much of the issue is caused by the sheer size of the table, the fact that it’s HTML, and also due to the many sorting options it offers.  I’m trying to get a CSV version of it for offline testing, or perhaps they can break up the table into several pages, because it also takes forever to fully load.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Column shifting in large tables

 

Jonathan,

             Interesting.  It still might not be NVDA, as I've seen some very sloppy HTML that, while it presents visually, is an absolute mess to parse out.

             And I hasten to add I'm not trying to say it's not NVDA, either.  By any chance have you tried another screen reader or screen readers to see how they react?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: How to read status bar word by word or character by character of Excel or any other App

Gene
 

I don't use the laptop layout but that sounds like a laptop layout command. the desktop layout command the default, is NVDA key end twice to read by character and once to read the entire line. if you want to read by word, stopping after any word you wish, you would have to use screen review or object review.

Gene.

gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Sim Kah Yong
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 5:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to read status bar word by word or character by character of Excel or any other App



Press NVDA + Shift + End key twice.


On 2/5/2021 5:32 PM, Ramesh Patil wrote:


Sir,

How to read status bar word by word or character by character of Excel or any other App.


Re: How to read status bar word by word or character by character of Excel or any other App

Sim Kah Yong
 

Press NVDA + Shift + End key twice.

On 2/5/2021 5:32 PM, Ramesh Patil wrote:

Sir,

How to read status bar word by word or character by character of Excel or any other App.


How to read status bar word by word or character by character of Excel or any other App

Ramesh Patil
 

Sir,

How to read status bar word by word or character by character of Excel or any other App.


Re: NVDA with mainframe terminal emulators

David Mehler
 

Hello,

Sorry, I've not heard not heard of that one, I just use Teraterm and
trying to get SecureCRT working.

Dave.

On 2/4/21, Eric Brinkman <eric.brinkman1@gmail.com> wrote:
We use Rumba at my company.

Eric

On 2/4/21, David Mehler <dave.mehler@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,

Which program(s) do you use or have you used in the past?

Thanks.
Dave.


On 2/4/21, Eric Brinkman <eric.brinkman1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

I work as a mainframe programmer and have been using Jaws with Glen
Sepke's terminal scripts to use the terminal emulator at my company.
Have any of you found a way to get NVDA to work well with terminal
emulation programs?

Thanks,
Eric














Re: Error-logging and Reporting

Quentin Christensen
 

It's usually easiest to send the whole log - the information from when NVDA started can provide good background information eg about add-ons or startup settings, and the section around the error will hopefully give useful information.

If you're sending it to us (info@...) then we'll keep it confidential unless we agree otherwise (eg if you're happy for us to create a GitHub issue and which information we'll include).  If you are creating an issue yourself and you're not sure if there is any sensitive information in the log, then do feel free to forward to me and I can check for you.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 5:37 AM Louise Pfau <louise.pfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  How much of the log do you need to submit when you encounter an error?  I've just installed 2020.4 beta 4, and received the error tone a couple of times.  I haven't been able to replicate the situations yet though.  I red through the information at the end of the log, and I couldn't make sense of it.

Thanks,

Louise



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA with mainframe terminal emulators

Eric Brinkman
 

We use Rumba at my company.

Eric

On 2/4/21, David Mehler <dave.mehler@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,

Which program(s) do you use or have you used in the past?

Thanks.
Dave.


On 2/4/21, Eric Brinkman <eric.brinkman1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

I work as a mainframe programmer and have been using Jaws with Glen
Sepke's terminal scripts to use the terminal emulator at my company.
Have any of you found a way to get NVDA to work well with terminal
emulation programs?

Thanks,
Eric










Re: Column shifting in large tables

 

Jonathan,

             Interesting.  It still might not be NVDA, as I've seen some very sloppy HTML that, while it presents visually, is an absolute mess to parse out.

             And I hasten to add I'm not trying to say it's not NVDA, either.  By any chance have you tried another screen reader or screen readers to see how they react?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Column shifting in large tables

Jonathan Milam
 

That’s correct, Brian.  It is not happening when a sighted user views the table with different browsers.

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Column shifting in large tables

 

Are you certain that this issue does not lie with the webpage itself?

If anyone is available for sighted assistance, are they seeing the results after sorting "go wonky"?  If so, it's probably not NVDA's problem at all.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA User Guide doesn't open in default browser

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  The main NVDA website that was referenced earlier in the thread is correct.  It was open in Edge when I accidentally opened the user guide.  I had uninstalled Chrome for troubleshooting purposes, but then reinstalled it when the situation wasn't remedied.  I apologize for the confusion.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: Error-logging and Reporting

 

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 01:37 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
I haven't been able to replicate the situations yet though. 
-
Then there's nothing further to do, at least yet.

I direct you back to an earlier message, by me, in this topic:  https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/81365 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA with mainframe terminal emulators

David Mehler
 

Hello,

Which program(s) do you use or have you used in the past?

Thanks.
Dave.

On 2/4/21, Eric Brinkman <eric.brinkman1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

I work as a mainframe programmer and have been using Jaws with Glen
Sepke's terminal scripts to use the terminal emulator at my company.
Have any of you found a way to get NVDA to work well with terminal
emulation programs?

Thanks,
Eric






Re: The Most Basic Troubleshooting Steps for Suspected NVDA Issues

Gene
 

Sometimes, certain dll files become unregistered, that is the registry doesn't know about them. This can cause problems such as having unknown read when you move through web pages when you use a number of browsers and web pages not being able to be read. I don't mean that some pages can and some can't. You can't read web pages.

It shouldn't cause problems, running a tool to register files that may have become unregistered. At the same time, if you become familiar with the problems this tool attempts to correct, you may determine that your problem isn't related to the files it reregisters.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 12:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] The Most Basic Troubleshooting Steps for Suspected NVDA Issues

Hi. Is the com registration fixing tool an advanced function, and if so, is it safe to use? I tend to be careful what I get into with my technology.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: The Most Basic Troubleshooting Steps for Suspected NVDA Issues

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi Louise


Yes it is safe to use it basically re registers certain files in windows that Nvda uses to communicate to each other.


The directions are easy to follow .

Usually used if there are problems.


Gene nz


On 5/02/2021 7:44 am, Louise Pfau wrote:
Hi.  Is the com registration fixing tool an advanced function, and if so, is it safe to use?  I tend to be careful what I get into with my technology.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: The Most Basic Troubleshooting Steps for Suspected NVDA Issues

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  Is the com registration fixing tool an advanced function, and if so, is it safe to use?  I tend to be careful what I get into with my technology.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: Error-logging and Reporting

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  How much of the log do you need to submit when you encounter an error?  I've just installed 2020.4 beta 4, and received the error tone a couple of times.  I haven't been able to replicate the situations yet though.  I red through the information at the end of the log, and I couldn't make sense of it.

Thanks,

Louise


NVDA with mainframe terminal emulators

Eric Brinkman
 

Hi all,

I work as a mainframe programmer and have been using Jaws with Glen
Sepke's terminal scripts to use the terminal emulator at my company.
Have any of you found a way to get NVDA to work well with terminal
emulation programs?

Thanks,
Eric


Re: Learning to be efficient with screen review

Sarah k Alawami
 

For me arrows do not work when you turn off browse mode. Only tab as far as I have found, the same can be with electron apps. I cannot use arrows, only tab. Or if I do use arrows, there is a lag, and a big one. I can use the shortcuts dedicated to the websites though in focus mode. So yes, document view for me on those sites and electron apps is necessary if needed.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 9:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review

 

Hi,

 

Usually, if you turn off virtual mode (NVDA Space) then up and down arrows will work on those kinds of websites, so I contend, as Jean does, that you don’t really need document view, unless I’m missing something.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 04 February 2021 00:34
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review

 

If you go to http://qrz.com and try and access yoru profile you cannot unless you go to document view, find your call, click it, then use document review to find the expanded menu. Sometimes up and dow arrow will work, sometimes not, it depends on the site. Also if you go to http://simmarket.com you sometimes have to use document review to see what's going on especially when you are buying stuff. also at http://aavirtual.net, http://fdx.org, http://flyvirtual.net, etc. There are others where you were forced to use all 3 views, but I can't recall them as it's ben almost 10 years since i've been on those sites.

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Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 3 Feb 2021, at 16:03, Gene wrote:

I didn't notice you said document review. So I withdraw my comments about you confusing different views in large part. But there is your statement I commented about in a different message. I will leave that question opened as it isn't clarified.

But why use document review on web sites. You can move around on web pages using the virtual cursor as if you are in a document with arrow keys, tab, quick navigation keys, etc. I see no advantage in seeing how the document is laid out or in efficiency in using document review.

Of course, there are times when you are trying to activate something where you need to use the virtual mouse, but at those times, remaining in object navigation, routing the mouse to your location and clicking works fine. You may be able to do that in document review too, but I see no advantage.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review

That's why I said document view on a website, not screen review. I believe there is a screen review as well on the website side of things. I must look when I'm not working. Yes, you can go from object to object. I do not, I do use document view to explore though. So, it behooves the user to be Perficient at both, starting with screen review/document review, then object review. It to me makes sense work flow wise.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 2:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review

That is not necessarily true and is an over generalization. A user doesn't have to learn screen review first. It is easier to understand and learn screen review first and a lot of people know how to use it from using other screen-readers that have that feature. There are times when you can see something with screen review you can't see in object review. there are times you can see something in object review you can't in screen review. If the user is advanced to the point where he/she needs access in ways many less advanced users do, they should learn both for good access.

But you are making a certain statement that is not true. You can't use screen review on web pages. If you think you are, then you are using object review and you think you are using screen review.

When you are using screen review, you can still move from object to object as though you were in objecct review. I don't use the laptop layout, but if you use the commands NVDA key numpad 4 or NVDA numpad 6, those move you from object to object regardless of whether you are in screen review or object review.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



No, I'm talking about switching to screen review mode if there is only one
object. It for me is much easier because of the way the laptop layout is
designed, and most of the time, at least in the programs I use, screen
review is much better and faster to use than object mode. If you want to see
examples go to my lbry page and watch some of the videos I post, there. You
will hear me using screen review, a lot. You will also hear me switch to
screen review when I start the programs I need, then stay in screen review
for the deration of the video(s) You will also see that arrows do not make
any difference when I am using arrows which is, at least for what I do,
rare. There are also other examples here as well.



I dun no know as I said how to use all the views perfectly, but I can get
around fairly quickly in regard to what I need to do. I stress a user must
learn screen review first, then interact with each element of the screen via
object review.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



If there is only one object, you don't necessarily have to go into review
mode. You can simply use the review commands, numpad 8 for read current
line, numpad 7 for previous line, numpad 9 for next line, etc. When doing
so in object navigation, you are reviewing the current objject.



Going into screen review doesn't work on web pages because of how browsers
send data to the screen.



Are you talking about using commands such as numpad 8 while in object
navigation or are you talking about actually switching to screen review
mode?



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Sarah k Alawami

Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 10:36 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



I agree to a point, however I would learn how to use screen and document
view. There will come a time when you must use them because programs don't
work well in object mode. For example, there is only 1 object but a lot of
stuff on the screen that can be clicked, or using screen review is the only
way to get around the app/website. I know how to use all the views. I prefer
screen review and use it for getting around when I have a recalcitrant
app/website.



-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene

Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2021 8:44 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



You need to use object navigation. Screen review is much more limited in
Windows 10 for technical reasons someone else will have to explain. When
you use NVDA key b, you are actually reading all the objects available to
the program.



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Deborah Armstrong

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2021 7:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review





I have found the NVDA screen review inconsistent and I am trying to figure
out why and how to get around the problem.



Try this experiment:

1. Type Windows with R to issue the Run Command 2. Type an invalid drive
letter say M: or I: and press enter.

An Error message will appear.

3. Use Insert numpad 1 or Insert Numpad 7 to switch to screen review (you do
not want to be in object review).

4. Use the 8 and 9 numpad keys to read the error message.

This works fine.



Now press Windows I to go to settings.

1. Arrow down and right to Update and Security.

2. Use Insert-B to read the entire screen. That works..

3. But now try these review mode commands to review the screen.

Insert 1 or 7 to make sure you are in Screen review mode

7 8 and 9 on the numeric keypad to read the top, current and following lines
and keep pressing 9.

You will only hear the word "Bottom".

They do not work. You cannot read the Windows update screen in settings
using screen review.

You can explore your computer with object review, but I can't figure out how
to read that screen, slowly at my own pace with the screen review mode.



Why is this? When focus cannot go to all areas of a screen, how can I read
what's there? Or even if focus can go there, how can I select and copy with

NVDA-F9 and F10 or read it slower?

















































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