Date   

Re: Using the num pad keys to review text

Gene
 

I suspect a lot of people don't realize why numpad 4 and 6 do what they do when using JAWS. I doubt your friend understands that 4 and 6 will often seem to review text in the same way in NVDA but that the cursor will not move. That's why I made my point. Many people transitioning from JAWS to NVEDA may find when experimenting that Numpad 4 and 6 seem to do the same thing, but they don't.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text



We sorted that little bit out. Thanks for extra information.












On 7/29/2020 5:34 PM, Gene wrote:
Also, switch to object review before you open Word so the object navigator will track the cursor properly.

I should add that I'm using an older version of Word and I don't know if newer versions will work this way with NVDA, but I suspect they will.

Also, adding to Joseph Lee's comment, it is important to understand the following points:
in JAWS, when you use numpad 4 and 6, you are doing exactly the same thing as when you use the left and right arrow keys on the main keyboard. When you are in the pc cursor, JAWS doesn't do anything to change the function of numpad 4 and 6. Whether JAWS or no screen-reader is running, 4 and 6 duplicate the left and right arrow keys unless a program takes them over. This is a Windows design. If the person wants exactly the same response as with JAWS, he should use the main arrow keys on the keyboard. Also, if you use 4 and 6 in NVDA's object navigation mode, you are moving the object navigator, not the cursor. The person expects the cursor to move when he uses numpad 4 and 6 in JAWS. It won't in NVDA.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

check to see which mode you are in. You needd to be in object review, not
screen review for the commands you are discussing to work when you are in
Word, according to the very little testing I just did, based on your
question.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his
Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues
as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to
review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there
something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I
open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4
and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the
document, but, the name of the document and menu options.


Re: Using the num pad keys to review text

 

We sorted that little bit out. Thanks for extra information.





On 7/29/2020 5:34 PM, Gene wrote:
Also, switch to object review before you open Word so the object navigator will track the cursor properly.

I should add that I'm using an older version of Word and I don't know if newer versions will work this way with NVDA, but I suspect they will.

Also, adding to Joseph Lee's comment, it is important to understand the following points:
in JAWS, when you use numpad 4 and 6, you are doing exactly the same thing as when you use the left and right arrow keys on the main keyboard.  When you are in the pc cursor, JAWS doesn't do anything to change the function of numpad 4 and 6.  Whether JAWS or no screen-reader is running, 4 and 6 duplicate the left and right arrow keys unless a program takes them over. This is a Windows design.  If the person wants exactly the same response as with JAWS, he should use the main arrow keys on the keyboard.  Also, if you use 4 and 6 in NVDA's object navigation mode, you are moving the object navigator, not the cursor.  The person expects the cursor to move when he uses numpad 4 and 6 in JAWS.  It won't in NVDA.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

check to see which mode you are in.  You needd to be in object review, not
screen review for the commands you are discussing to work when you are in
Word, according to the very little testing I just did, based on your
question.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his
Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues
as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to
review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there
something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I
open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4
and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the
document, but, the name of the document and menu options.








Re: Using the num pad keys to review text

Gene
 

Also, switch to object review before you open Word so the object navigator will track the cursor properly.

I should add that I'm using an older version of Word and I don't know if newer versions will work this way with NVDA, but I suspect they will.

Also, adding to Joseph Lee's comment, it is important to understand the following points:
in JAWS, when you use numpad 4 and 6, you are doing exactly the same thing as when you use the left and right arrow keys on the main keyboard. When you are in the pc cursor, JAWS doesn't do anything to change the function of numpad 4 and 6. Whether JAWS or no screen-reader is running, 4 and 6 duplicate the left and right arrow keys unless a program takes them over. This is a Windows design. If the person wants exactly the same response as with JAWS, he should use the main arrow keys on the keyboard. Also, if you use 4 and 6 in NVDA's object navigation mode, you are moving the object navigator, not the cursor. The person expects the cursor to move when he uses numpad 4 and 6 in JAWS. It won't in NVDA.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

check to see which mode you are in. You needd to be in object review, not
screen review for the commands you are discussing to work when you are in
Word, according to the very little testing I just did, based on your
question.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his
Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues
as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to
review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there
something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I
open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4
and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the
document, but, the name of the document and menu options.


Re: how do I silence the "space" bar?

Curtis Delzer
 

thanks, I'll definitely look into this.

Curtis Delzer
HS
K 6 V F O
Rialto, CA

curtis@...

On 7/29/2020 2:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The first thing that springs to mind is using one of the speech dictionaries, presuming you have letters being pronounced, and substitute the space character with no replacement.
Since you mention "many applications" that implies "not all."  You may want to use application profiles as part of this, but I'm not quite clear at the moment how that would be tied in with dictionaries, which I believe are independent of the application profile being used, but I could be wrong.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363
*/Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth./*
~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in /New York Times/ article, /How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States/ <https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/health/anti-vaccination-movement-us.html>/,/September 23, 2019


Re: how do I silence the "space" bar?

 

The first thing that springs to mind is using one of the speech dictionaries, presuming you have letters being pronounced, and substitute the space character with no replacement.

Since you mention "many applications" that implies "not all."  You may want to use application profiles as part of this, but I'm not quite clear at the moment how that would be tied in with dictionaries, which I believe are independent of the application profile being used, but I could be wrong.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Using the num pad keys to review text

Gene
 

check to see which mode you are in. You needd to be in object review, not screen review for the commands you are discussing to work when you are in Word, according to the very little testing I just did, based on your question.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his
Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues
as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to
review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there
something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I
open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4
and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the
document, but, the name of the document and menu options.


how do I silence the "space" bar?

Curtis Delzer
 

How do I go about silencing the space bar in NVDA? I don't wish to silence letters, (guess I enjoy the security of haring them), but the space isn't necessary and there are many applications where I don't wish to hear the space bar.

--
Curtis Delzer
HS
K 6 V F O
Rialto, CA

curtis@...


Re: No exit sound on NVDA 2020.2 when I shut down my computer

David Goldfield
 

Hello. For me, the add-on in question which was causing the shut-down wav file to be suppressed was an older version of the Acapela speech engine. As it turned out Acapela corrected this problem in a later update which I did not have. Installing the newer speech engine fixed the problem.

On 7/29/2020 12:57 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Before trying anything else, try these two things:

1. Quit NVDA (NVDA+Q, then exit), without shutting down your machine.
Does the exit sound play in that context?
If it does, then the suggestions about windows messing with the shutdown priority could be your issue.

If it doesn't, as I suspect, then you have a much more likely issue:

2. Try restarting with add-ons disabled.  You can usually do that from the NVDA+Q exit menu, although if you have that turned off, you will need to turn it back on (show exit options) in NVDA's general settings (NVDA+Ctrl+G).
Once you have restarted with no add-ons, try shutting down or just exiting NVDA.
If you get the sound then, your problem is an add-on.

 As I recall, there was a topic here a few weeks ago in which someone (David Goldfield?) had the same problem, and it turned out to be an add-on causing it, although I can't recall which.
Search the list archives for that.

Luke

 On Wed, 29 Jul 2020, brian wrote:

I have my nvda set to play start and exit sounds checked. When I turn my computer on I do hear the start up nvda sound but when I shut down my computer I don't hear any exit sound.  I have no way to know if my computer is shut down or not. I have only had this problem with nvda 2020.2


Re: Using the num pad keys to review text

Christopher Gray
 

Hi:

This may explain why I sometimes find myself unable to review an entire window/screen. In a DOS box, things work well. But in other windows, I often can't find what I would expect, say, when using COBRA.

Is there a way in NVDA to move the caret and review in that way? If this is a complicated question, I would be happy for a pointer to the places to look in the UOser Guide/Help.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

Hi,
In NVDA world, numpad is strictly used to review contents of a control, not to move caret as you can do with JAWS.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4 and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the document, but, the name of the document and menu options.


Re: Using the num pad keys to review text

 

Thanks. That one was easy. Received and communicated.





On 7/29/2020 2:57 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
In NVDA world, numpad is strictly used to review contents of a control, not to move caret as you can do with JAWS.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4 and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the document, but, the name of the document and menu options.








Re: Using the num pad keys to review text

 

Hi,
In NVDA world, numpad is strictly used to review contents of a control, not to move caret as you can do with JAWS.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using the num pad keys to review text

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4 and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the document, but, the name of the document and menu options.


Re: Two problems with NVDA 2020.2

Sean
 

The second problem is also experienced with Espeak NG.
independently of  synthesizers.

On 29/07/2020 18:33, Tyler Spivey wrote:
Both of these are a problem with your synthesizer. NVDA relies on
indexing a lot more than it used to, and I'm guessing your synth can't
do it well enough.
On 7/29/2020 2:41 AM, Gloomy_Apple wrote:
Hello all!

   I have just finally moved on from the NVDA 2019.2 version and updated
to the newest one. However now I'm having two problems with it. I'm
pretty sure that the first one has been already mentioned in the group
though in regard to a different version, but can't find the topic for
the life of me so apologies if this is repetitive.

   1: I have the "Speak Typed Characters" option on most of the time,
and now after the update, when I'm on the desktop and navigating to a
specific icon by its first letter, NVDA will only say the letter but not
the name of the icon afterwards. I've heard that this was a problem in
the 2019.3 version with older speech synths however I'm using Acapela
(for Sapi5, not for NVDA) so was quite surprised to see this problem. I
turned the Speak Typed Characters option off for now but if this is
something I can fix myself, I'd really appreciate any advice.

   2: When using the NVDA+Down Arrow to read continuously, NVDA will
stop after a while. I assume that it stops when reaching the end of a
paragraph, or before a heading.

   Are these just some bugs in this version that will be removed later
or is it something that I can get back to working properly as someone
who's not extremely techy? Do you guys have any suggestions how to deal
with this.

   Best wishes.



--

Sean

👨‍🦯 I’m programmer. I coding often Python, sometimes Go and rarely C++.


Using the num pad keys to review text

 

This issue refers to the same friend of mine who has issues with his Braille display. I say that only as reference. I don't see these issues as linked.


He has opened a word document. He cannot use the numpad 4 and 6 keys to review text, like with Jaws. Is this expected functionality or is there something I've forgotten to tell my friend to help him better? When I open a word document and attempt to read word for word using numpad 4 and 6, I get the same result he does. I don't see any of the text in the document, but, the name of the document and menu options.


Re: Problems using NVDA 2020.2 With a Freedom Scientific Focus 40 Fifth Generation Braille Display

 

Slight modification to my message. The rocker switches work inside documents. However, they do not work on the desktop itself. I have another issue I'll ask about in another message.

On 7/29/2020 12:28 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Does your friend remember the last NVDA version where rocker buttons worked?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Problems using NVDA 2020.2 With a Freedom Scientific Focus 40 Fifth Generation Braille Display

This is on behalf of a friend who called me. He is doing a demo with NVDA and this Braille display, the Focus 40 Fifth Generation from Freedom Scientific. He is using the above Braille display and cannot get the rocker buttons to do what they should be assigned to do. He is using NVDA 2020.2. We reset NVDA back to factory defaults. He downloaded and installed the drivers he was asked to install. Could anyone help me troubleshoot this issue with my friend?


A further note: This issue with the rocker switches also occurs with the Focus 40 Fourth Generation as well. His version of Windows should be up to date. He does demos and such frequently. Any help with this is appreciated.






Announcement: NVDA 2020.2 and Joseph Lee's add-ons

 

Hello everyone,

Although I do encourage feedback about my add-ons on this list, if you have concerns you think should be brought up to me directly, please message me privately (this also includes sending logs that has to do with errors with my add-ons).

 

On behalf of many code contributors outside of NV Access, I would like to welcome you to NVDA 2020.2 era. The biggest highlight from this release is improved productivity – Windows Terminal support, more responsive Windows OneCore synthesizer, and much more. As always, feedback about NVDA 2020.2 is appreciated, and developers are working hard to bring improved user experience and other changes in NVDA 2020.3.

 

A few things to note regarding Joseph Lee’s add-ons now that NVDA 2020.2 stable version came out yesterday:

 

  • All maintained add-ons are compatible with NVDA 2020.2.
  • Add-on Updater: the policy for this add-on is to support the latest stable version only. At the moment NVDA 2020.1 or later is supported, but sometime in September, NVDA 2020.2 will be required to use Add-on Updater.
  • Enhanced Touch Gestures: a few weeks ago I announced that two features will be removed from this add-on: coordinate announcement beep and temporary touch passthrough. These features will be removed in September (20.09 release).
  • StationPlaylist: next week, version 20.08 will be released, containing scoped set of fixes and optimizations from upcoming version 20.09. Along with this, version 20.08 will present a message at startup if you happen to be running Studio 5.20, informing you that upcoming 20.09.x (LTS) will be the last release series to support Studio 5.20. These LTS (long-term support) releases won’t show up until fall. People using later Studio releases won’t have to worry about it, but note the following: sometime in early 2021, StationPlaylist add-on will require NVDA 2020.3 or later due to an important change that affects the graphical user interface of this add-on.
  • Windows 10 App Essentials: version 20.08 (requiring NVDA 2020.1 due to add-on support policy) was planned for release next week. However, a showstopper issue was discovered with upcoming Windows 10 Version 20H2 feature update (currently in beta) that necessitates delaying this release until after August Update Tuesday (August 11, 2020) in order to see if the next cumulative update for 20H2 beta resolves it (the showstopper issue has to do with NVDA and Narrator not announcing toast notifications, and Microsoft is aware of this bug). Coupled with the fact that Windows 10 App Essentials 20.08 will require NVDA 2020.1 or later, this delay would help more people meet NVDA 2020.2 and provide feedback to NV Access, along with fulfilling a promise I made a few days ago: I will wait two weeks after NVDA 2020.2 shows up prior to releasing the next WinTenApps update.

 

I’m giving you an early heads up so you won’t be caught off-guard and prepare accordingly. I’ll provide details on add-on releases when they show up, starting with StationPlaylist 20.08 next week.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: No exit sound on NVDA 2020.2 when I shut down my computer

 
Edited

Luke's suggestions are excellent.  Remember, too, that an upgrade to NVDA involves an uninstall of the existing NVDA and install of the new one, so even that can change the position of NVDA in the shutdown process.

In addition to Luke's recommendations, if you (any you who's reading) do not have the Add-On Updater add-on installed, I'd suggest doing so.  It is now configured such that it will detect when obsolete add-ons, such as Focus Highlight or Screen Curtain, are no longer needed when that functionality has been pulled into the NVDA core, and will remove them.

And as to searching the archives, which is always a good idea if you suspect something has been discussed in the past, here are step-by-step instructions for downloading: Searching the NVDA Group Archive
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: No exit sound on NVDA 2020.2 when I shut down my computer

Luke Davis
 

Before trying anything else, try these two things:

1. Quit NVDA (NVDA+Q, then exit), without shutting down your machine.
Does the exit sound play in that context?
If it does, then the suggestions about windows messing with the shutdown priority could be your issue.

If it doesn't, as I suspect, then you have a much more likely issue:

2. Try restarting with add-ons disabled. You can usually do that from the NVDA+Q exit menu, although if you have that turned off, you will need to turn it back on (show exit options) in NVDA's general settings (NVDA+Ctrl+G).
Once you have restarted with no add-ons, try shutting down or just exiting NVDA.
If you get the sound then, your problem is an add-on.

As I recall, there was a topic here a few weeks ago in which someone (David Goldfield?) had the same problem, and it turned out to be an add-on causing it, although I can't recall which.
Search the list archives for that.

Luke

On Wed, 29 Jul 2020, brian wrote:

I have my nvda set to play start and exit sounds checked. When I turn my computer on I do hear the start up nvda sound but when I shut down my computer I don't hear any exit sound.  I have no way to know if my computer is shut down or not. I have only had this problem with nvda 2020.2


Re: No exit sound on NVDA 2020.2 when I shut down my computer

brian
 

    No I have not.

Brian Sackrider

On 7/29/2020 12:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Have you, by any chance, installed any software between the time you installed NVDA 2020.1 and upgraded to 2020.2.

The playing of sounds during the shutdown process is entirely dependent on whether Windows has already shut down sound itself before another given process is terminated.  It can, and often does, happen that as additional software gets added something that used to be in position X in the shutdown sequence, which was before sound was terminated, gets bumped to position Y, after it has been terminated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: No exit sound on NVDA 2020.2 when I shut down my computer

 

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:34 PM, CARLOS-ESTEBAN wrote:
Is probably that the cause is that Windows stop the process of audio before of NVDA play exit.wav.
-
We're both on the same page here.  And based on my long experience with Windows (all versions) and the shutdown process this is by far and away the most likely reason.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Musescore and his accessibility with NVDA

CARLOS-ESTEBAN
 

Hello.
Well, Sivelius is accessible and also you can use Braille Music Editor with an addon for NVDA (if you write in Braille).
Regards.

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.
Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios con discapacidad visual en el
uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.
Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musicien (pianist) and also help to users with a visual disability in the use of screen readers and technology.
Certified expert in screen reader NVDA.



El mié., 29 de jul. de 2020 a la(s) 00:12, Marco Oros (marco.oros93@...) escribió:
Thank You.

But, are there also another accessible notation programs, or no?

Or which to use?