Date   

Re: FW: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The only issues I have had is that it seems that auto updates, although apparently downloading, do not work or install, ie, If I download them from the page and run them, I can update the target version manually in the old way, but the auto updater fails to run the snaps downloaded and says download failed At least this has happened with master to beta , and I have left it and used the downloaded manually build as a portable version. I suspect something in the existing master build might well be seeing the new name as an error. If this is the case the only work around might be to ask people to manually download the first time.
Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2018 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process


Hi Joseph!
Thanks a lot.
I like using the latest code possible, so I will use the alpha snapshots. I will make comments on how everything is working in that snapshot.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 7:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

Hi,
Please read Mick's follow-up post below. Thanks.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Curran <mick@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 3:32 PM
To: NVDA screen reader development <nvda-devel@...>
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

Hi all,


The Release process article has been updated again based on user feedback.


The most important parts are in the Changes for Testers:

* The next branch and next snapshots will no longer exist. Anyone currently on a next snapshot will be automatically updated to new "alpha" snapshots. Alpha snapshots are created directly from Master each time it changes (I.e. when a pull request is merged). As the name suggests, these snapshots are alpha quality. And although automated tests pass, these builds have had no user testing.
* Anyone currently on master snapshots will be upgraded to the first available tagged beta for the current release. Beta builds, as the name implies, are beta quality and have had some testing by users. Note that as new betas are made available you will keep automatically upgrading, and then also upgrade to the final stable release. To get back to beta testing for the next release you will need to manually download a new beta for that release.
* The snapshots page at https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/
now lists both alpha snapshots and all beta releases.

Everything is now in place and snapshots should now start asking to upgrade to their respective new version types.


Please note: as the new Alpha snapshots are based on current master, not
all previously incubating PRs are yet included. E.g. wxPython4 is not
yet in the alpha snapshots. These previously incubating PRs will be
merged within the near future when we are sure the infrastructure is
working.


Mick





On 4/07/2018 6:28 PM, Mick Curran wrote:
Hi Brian,


I appreciate your constructive feedback. We will certainly think about
your proposal and see what we can manage.

Although we have published the new process, we have not yet removed
any branches or switched anyone over, so we can still make some
changes before committing to this fully.


The reasons for sticking with the name master for the default
development branch are:

1. We don't want to break existing pull requests which are currently
open against master. There are more than 40 or so.

2. We don't want new contributors submitting pull requests against an
old (defunct) version of master (if we do move).

3. master is the generally accepted name for the default branch of git
repositories for most projects on github.


There may be another way to solve this specifically for snapshots.
I'll have to research this further.


We will wait for more feedback and think on this more.


Mick





But,




On 4/07/2018 4:59 PM, Brians old account via Nvda-devel wrote:
While I can see the reasoning for this change. I do think that a
number of us are going to have to do the following. When the Next
becomes master, we are going to have a period when the new beta
branch does not exist, Now taking my own case as a for instance. I
currently use master as my working version though I of course do have
a portable of the latest stable version, That will mean if I do
nothing result in effectively my master becoming next, which means my
normal copy is now bleeding edge code. I may have to wait till the
new beta is created for the ability to change this around, and make
next master and master beta. Would it not be more sensible to just
remove master, and use next as you propose master is to be, then
create a new beta when applicable?
That way folk used to using master as pretty stable will not be
affected. They will stay on master, then when a new beta comes out
they will be migrated to this for their working versions.
if you want users to participate, as I think is a good thing, in my
view the proposal I outline above will carry more people with you.
also please remember to formerly tell people on the user list about
what you are doing so you do not suddenly find a lot of folk with
problems.
I do realise that there are now a lot more checks done
automatically, but in the end its the user that will be running the
code more than anyone else, and feedback from that cohort of people
is worth its weight in gold. we all know that many programmers are
the worst testers as they are predictable. its the newbie and the
less confident user who finds the bugs.
So what do you think?

Brian

bgaff@...
Brian Gaff's other account.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Curran" <mick@...>
To: "NVDA screen reader development"
<nvda-devel@...>; <nvda-translations@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 2:43 AM
Subject: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process


Hi contributors,


We have made some small changes to the NVDA release process. Please
read the updated Release Process article carefully to understand the
changes and how they will affect you.

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/ReleaseProcess


In short, Next/incubation is going away, and prs are going to be
merged straight to master. Periodic betas will be offered startin
from 5 weeks before a release.

Please read the entire article to understand the changes fully.


Translators should not be directly affected by this change. Though
technically, translations are now based on a new "beta" branch
rather than master.


Mick









--
--
Mick Curran
Executive Director, NV Access Limited
PH: +61 7 3149 3306 ext. 101
www: http://www.nvaccess.org/
Twitter: @NVAccess
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess


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--
--
Mick Curran
Executive Director, NV Access Limited
PH: +61 7 3149 3306 ext. 101
www: http://www.nvaccess.org/
Twitter: @NVAccess
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: nvda on xbox one s?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I am told Narrator is on x box, well the newer ones obviously. I do not do gaming, but exactly how do you do some of the keys, Is not this purely a game box, You presumably add a keyboard. There is in development a windows store version of nvda, but at present I don't think you can use add ons on it.
Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda on xbox one s?


Wow it would be awesome if NVDA could be on Xbox!



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 12:53 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda on xbox one s?



Hi,



In the future, is there any way that NVDA could be an app in the xbox one s app store? Then I could maybe use NVDA’s windows10 OCR feature to read game menus to more easily play games like madden nfl 2018 and others. Xbox one s runs on windows10.



Josh





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


Re: FW: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

 

Hi Joseph!
Thank you for your message, I will use the latest alpha version to do the translation test version.


Re: FW: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

David Moore
 

Hi Joseph!

Thanks a lot.

I like using the latest code possible, so I will use the alpha snapshots. I will make comments on how everything is working in that snapshot.

David Moore

               Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 7:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

 

Hi,

Please read Mick's follow-up post below. Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Mick Curran <mick@...>

Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 3:32 PM

To: NVDA screen reader development <nvda-devel@...>

Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

 

Hi all,

 

 

The Release process article has been updated again based on user feedback.

 

 

The most important parts are in the Changes for Testers:

 

* The next branch and next snapshots will no longer exist. Anyone currently on a next snapshot will be automatically updated to new "alpha" snapshots. Alpha snapshots are created directly from Master each time it changes (I.e. when a pull request is merged). As the name suggests, these snapshots are alpha quality. And although automated tests pass, these builds have had no user testing.

  * Anyone currently on master snapshots will be upgraded to the first available tagged beta for the current release. Beta builds, as the name implies, are beta quality and have had some testing by users. Note that as new betas are made available you will keep automatically upgrading, and then also upgrade to the final stable release. To get back to beta testing for the next release you will need to manually download a new beta for that release.

  * The snapshots page at https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/

now lists both alpha snapshots and all beta releases.

 

Everything is now in place and snapshots should now start  asking to upgrade to their respective new version types.

 

 

Please note: as the new Alpha snapshots are based on current master, not

all previously incubating PRs are yet included. E.g. wxPython4 is not 

yet in the alpha snapshots. These previously incubating PRs will be

merged within the near future when we are sure the infrastructure is

working.

 

 

Mick

 

 

 

 

 

On 4/07/2018 6:28 PM, Mick Curran wrote:

> Hi Brian,

> I appreciate your constructive feedback. We will certainly think about

> your proposal and see what we can manage.

> Although we have published the new process, we have not yet removed

> any branches or switched anyone over, so we can still make some

> changes before committing to this fully.

> The reasons for sticking with the name master for the default

> development branch are:

> 1. We don't want to break existing pull requests which are currently

> open against master. There are more than 40 or so.

> 2. We don't want new contributors submitting pull requests against an

> old (defunct) version of master (if we do move).

> 3. master is the generally accepted name for the default branch of git

> repositories for most projects on github.

> There may be another way to solve this specifically for snapshots.

> I'll have to research this further.

> We will wait for more feedback and think on this more.

> Mick

> But,

> On 4/07/2018 4:59 PM, Brians old account via Nvda-devel wrote:

>> While I can see the reasoning for this change. I do think that a

>> number of us are going to have to do the following. When the Next

>> becomes master, we are going to have a period when the new beta

>> branch does not exist, Now taking my own case as a for instance. I

>> currently use master as my working version though I of course do have

>> a portable of the latest stable version, That will mean if I do

>> nothing result in effectively my master becoming next, which means my

>> normal copy is now bleeding edge code. I may have to wait till the

>> new beta is created for the ability to change this around, and make

>> next master and master beta. Would it not be more sensible to  just

>> remove master, and use next as you propose master is to be, then

>> create a new beta when applicable?

>> That way  folk used to using master as pretty stable will not be

>> affected. They will stay on master, then when a new beta comes out

>> they will be migrated to this for their  working versions.

>> if you want users to participate, as I think is a good thing, in my

>> view the proposal I outline above will carry more people with you.

>> also please remember to formerly tell people on the user list about

>> what you are doing so you do not suddenly find a lot of folk with

>> problems.

>> I do realise that there are now a lot more checks  done

>> automatically, but in the end its the user that will be  running the

>> code more than anyone else, and feedback from that cohort of people

>> is worth its weight in gold. we all know that  many programmers are

>> the worst testers as they are predictable. its the newbie and the

>> less confident user who finds the bugs.

>> So what do you think?

>> 

>> Brian

>> 

>> bgaff@...

>> Brian Gaff's other account.

>> 

>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Curran" <mick@...>

>> To: "NVDA screen reader development"

>> <nvda-devel@...>; <nvda-translations@groups.io>

>> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 2:43 AM

>> Subject: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

>> 

>> 

>>> Hi contributors,

>>> 

>>> 

>>> We have made some small changes to the NVDA release process. Please

>>> read the updated Release Process article carefully to understand the

>>> changes and how they will affect you.

>>> 

>>> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/ReleaseProcess

>>> 

>>> 

>>> In short, Next/incubation is going away, and prs are going to be

>>> merged straight to master. Periodic betas will be offered startin

>>> from 5 weeks before a release.

>>> 

>>> Please read the entire article to understand the changes fully.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Translators should not be directly affected by this change. Though

>>> technically, translations are now based on a new "beta" branch

>>> rather than master.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Mick

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> --

>>> --

>>> Mick Curran

>>> Executive Director, NV Access Limited

>>> PH: +61 7 3149 3306 ext. 101

>>> www: http://www.nvaccess.org/

>>> Twitter: @NVAccess

>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess

>>> 

>>> 

>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>> 

>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most

>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Nvda-devel mailing list

>>> Nvda-devel@...

>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> 

>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most

>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

>> _______________________________________________

>> Nvda-devel mailing list

>> Nvda-devel@...

>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel

 

--

--

Mick Curran

Executive Director, NV Access Limited

PH: +61 7 3149 3306 ext. 101

www: http://www.nvaccess.org/

Twitter: @NVAccess

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most

engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

_______________________________________________

Nvda-devel mailing list

Nvda-devel@...

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel

 

 

 

 


FW: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

 

Hi,
Please read Mick's follow-up post below. Thanks.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Curran <mick@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 3:32 PM
To: NVDA screen reader development <nvda-devel@...>
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process

Hi all,


The Release process article has been updated again based on user feedback.


The most important parts are in the Changes for Testers:

* The next branch and next snapshots will no longer exist. Anyone currently on a next snapshot will be automatically updated to new "alpha" snapshots. Alpha snapshots are created directly from Master each time it changes (I.e. when a pull request is merged). As the name suggests, these snapshots are alpha quality. And although automated tests pass, these builds have had no user testing.
* Anyone currently on master snapshots will be upgraded to the first available tagged beta for the current release. Beta builds, as the name implies, are beta quality and have had some testing by users. Note that as new betas are made available you will keep automatically upgrading, and then also upgrade to the final stable release. To get back to beta testing for the next release you will need to manually download a new beta for that release.
* The snapshots page at https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/
now lists both alpha snapshots and all beta releases.

Everything is now in place and snapshots should now start asking to upgrade to their respective new version types.


Please note: as the new Alpha snapshots are based on current master, not
all previously incubating PRs are yet included. E.g. wxPython4 is not
yet in the alpha snapshots. These previously incubating PRs will be
merged within the near future when we are sure the infrastructure is
working.


Mick





On 4/07/2018 6:28 PM, Mick Curran wrote:
Hi Brian,


I appreciate your constructive feedback. We will certainly think about
your proposal and see what we can manage.

Although we have published the new process, we have not yet removed
any branches or switched anyone over, so we can still make some
changes before committing to this fully.


The reasons for sticking with the name master for the default
development branch are:

1. We don't want to break existing pull requests which are currently
open against master. There are more than 40 or so.

2. We don't want new contributors submitting pull requests against an
old (defunct) version of master (if we do move).

3. master is the generally accepted name for the default branch of git
repositories for most projects on github.


There may be another way to solve this specifically for snapshots.
I'll have to research this further.


We will wait for more feedback and think on this more.


Mick





But,




On 4/07/2018 4:59 PM, Brians old account via Nvda-devel wrote:
While I can see the reasoning for this change. I do think that a
number of us are going to have to do the following. When the Next
becomes master, we are going to have a period when the new beta
branch does not exist, Now taking my own case as a for instance. I
currently use master as my working version though I of course do have
a portable of the latest stable version, That will mean if I do
nothing result in effectively my master becoming next, which means my
normal copy is now bleeding edge code. I may have to wait till the
new beta is created for the ability to change this around, and make
next master and master beta. Would it not be more sensible to just
remove master, and use next as you propose master is to be, then
create a new beta when applicable?
That way folk used to using master as pretty stable will not be
affected. They will stay on master, then when a new beta comes out
they will be migrated to this for their working versions.
if you want users to participate, as I think is a good thing, in my
view the proposal I outline above will carry more people with you.
also please remember to formerly tell people on the user list about
what you are doing so you do not suddenly find a lot of folk with
problems.
I do realise that there are now a lot more checks done
automatically, but in the end its the user that will be running the
code more than anyone else, and feedback from that cohort of people
is worth its weight in gold. we all know that many programmers are
the worst testers as they are predictable. its the newbie and the
less confident user who finds the bugs.
So what do you think?

Brian

bgaff@...
Brian Gaff's other account.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Curran" <mick@...>
To: "NVDA screen reader development"
<nvda-devel@...>; <nvda-translations@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 2:43 AM
Subject: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process


Hi contributors,


We have made some small changes to the NVDA release process. Please
read the updated Release Process article carefully to understand the
changes and how they will affect you.

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/ReleaseProcess


In short, Next/incubation is going away, and prs are going to be
merged straight to master. Periodic betas will be offered startin
from 5 weeks before a release.

Please read the entire article to understand the changes fully.


Translators should not be directly affected by this change. Though
technically, translations are now based on a new "beta" branch
rather than master.


Mick









--
--
Mick Curran
Executive Director, NV Access Limited
PH: +61 7 3149 3306 ext. 101
www: http://www.nvaccess.org/
Twitter: @NVAccess
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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Nvda-devel@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Nvda-devel mailing list
Nvda-devel@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nvda-devel
--
--
Mick Curran
Executive Director, NV Access Limited
PH: +61 7 3149 3306 ext. 101
www: http://www.nvaccess.org/
Twitter: @NVAccess
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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Re: nvda on xbox one s?

simon wheatcroft
 

B along these lines. Last I read ea were working on making madden play well without sight. Using narrator for starting the game and navigation of the dashboard 


On 5 Jul 2018, at 20:57, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

Wow it would be awesome if NVDA could be on Xbox!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 12:53 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda on xbox one s?

 

Hi,

 

In the future, is there any way that NVDA could be an app in the xbox one s app store? Then I could maybe use NVDA’s windows10 OCR feature to read game menus to more easily play games like madden nfl 2018 and others. Xbox one s runs on windows10.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: ocr with latest nvda on win7-64

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


This is off my how to install additional  components page.


Written stuff is below. I think there is a audio one but not on that page.


How to install and use the OCR plugin for NVDA
To give the new experimental OCR plugin (that Jamie created) a whirl,
you will need to download the plugin
from http://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/ocr.en.html and unzip the
file.  It will make a directory called OCR.  This will need to be copied
and pasted into the global plugin directory.

The easiest way to find out where to put the OCR plugin for the
installer version, (and once you have copied the OCR directory), is to
press the Windows key. Your start menu will come up. Go to programmes,
then another set of menus will come up with all of the programmes on
your PC. Once this comes up, find a menu called NVDA. Once there, a
submenu will come up and you will need to find one called explore user
configuration directory. Next, press enter. There will be some folders
in there and you will need to find one called global plugins. Paste the
OCR plugin into that directory. This is where other plugins will go for
the installer version.

For the portable version, the OCR plugin will have to be put into the
following directory: nvda...user configuration...global plugins. Make
sure that you paste the plugin for the portable version into that directory.

You will need to reload the plugins, by going to reload plugins under
the tools section in NVDA. (Insert N...tools...reload plugins). You will
also need to reload NVDA to update your settings. The object you are
going to scan must be in focus otherwise it will not work.  If you are
unsure, go to running locations and locate the item and press enter to
put you into focus.  To OCR the item (for example a pdf that has not
been done), use the Insert key and the letter r to start it.  It will
say performing OCR,  then say done.  To read what has been written
there, you will need to change over to the review cursor to read the
contents of that document.  Please read the section called reviewing
text in the user manual if you are unsure.  The information given back
to you will vary from scanned image to image, depending on the quality
of the things you have scanned. Please refer to step 4 above if needed.
Currently, the OCR only works with the snapshots.
Reviewing the text within your OCR'd document
NVDA allows you to read the contents of the current navigator object
(including flat review) by character, word or line using the numeric
keypad. This is mostly useful in places (including Windows command
consoles) where there is no system caret. For example, you might use it
to review the text of a long information message in a dialogue.
Reviewing text by character, word or line
To help you remember these commands, note that the basic text review
commands are organized in a grid of three by three, with top to bottom
being line, word and character and left to right being previous, current
and next. Using the numpad keys requires the NumLock key to be turned
off to work properly. Using your numeric keypad, the following are
reported by pressing the appropriate numbers:
Previous line 7
Current line 8
Next line 9
Previous word 4
Current word 5
Next word 6
Previous character 1
Current character 2
Next character 3
For a full list of other text review related commands (for example
report text formatting or copy from review cursor etcetera), please
refer to the Reviewing Text section in the user manual.


Gene nz

On 7/6/2018 2:36 AM, Rusty Perez wrote:
Hi folks,
I have the ocr addon installed but when I press nvda/R NVDA reports
that it is performing ocr, but I don't know what to do next.
When it is finished, I seem to be back in the exact same place where I started.
I'm trying to read a screen shot provided on a page of instructions.

Any help using OCR with NVDA would be appreciated since I'm also
trying to use software which may only be accessible using OCR..



thanks!
Rusty



Re: nvda on xbox one s?

Sarah k Alawami
 

That would be nice. Then  we could disable narrator, ocr the menues and then reenable narrator later.

On Jul 5, 2018, at 12:53 PM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:

Hi,
 
In the future, is there any way that NVDA could be an app in the xbox one s app store? Then I could maybe use NVDA’s windows10 OCR feature to read game menus to more easily play games like madden nfl 2018 and others. Xbox one s runs on windows10.
 
Josh
 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 


Re: nvda on xbox one s?

Sky Mundell
 

Wow it would be awesome if NVDA could be on Xbox!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 12:53 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda on xbox one s?

 

Hi,

 

In the future, is there any way that NVDA could be an app in the xbox one s app store? Then I could maybe use NVDA’s windows10 OCR feature to read game menus to more easily play games like madden nfl 2018 and others. Xbox one s runs on windows10.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


nvda on xbox one s?

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi,

 

In the future, is there any way that NVDA could be an app in the xbox one s app store? Then I could maybe use NVDA’s windows10 OCR feature to read game menus to more easily play games like madden nfl 2018 and others. Xbox one s runs on windows10.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: ocr with latest nvda on win7-64

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


If you are using the add on make sure the item is in focus then as you
know do the command nvda + R if i remember right.


With the add on as well you will need to use the review text or is it
the other way around text review commands.


You use the numeric keypad to do this.


7 is previous line 8 is current and 9 is next.

4 is previous word, 5 is current word and 6 is next.

1 is previous character, 2 is current and 3 is next.


If you want to copy the information use the nvda +key + F9 key to start
a mark at where you want to copy from and the nvda key + F10 key twice
to copy it to the clip board.




I do have a audio tutorial on what to do i would have to find it there
might even be a text one as well.

Sections in the user manual is 5.4 and 5.5 which is text review and
object navigation where the copy commands come from.

Gene nz

On 7/6/2018 2:36 AM, Rusty Perez wrote:
Hi folks,
I have the ocr addon installed but when I press nvda/R NVDA reports
that it is performing ocr, but I don't know what to do next.
When it is finished, I seem to be back in the exact same place where I started.
I'm trying to read a screen shot provided on a page of instructions.

Any help using OCR with NVDA would be appreciated since I'm also
trying to use software which may only be accessible using OCR..



thanks!
Rusty



Re: ocr with latest nvda on win7-64

Sarah k Alawami
 

Can you then read with your navigation and object keys the document that appears?

Take care

On Jul 5, 2018, at 7:36 AM, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:

Hi folks,
I have the ocr addon installed but when I press nvda/R NVDA reports
that it is performing ocr, but I don't know what to do next.
When it is finished, I seem to be back in the exact same place where I started.
I'm trying to read a screen shot provided on a page of instructions.

Any help using OCR with NVDA would be appreciated since I'm also
trying to use software which may only be accessible using OCR..



thanks!
Rusty



Re: Can one re register all dlls in the windows folders safely?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes, well I often notice some sound drivers on short sounds can play a bit of a previous sound before the new one. I think at present there are a lot of dodgy windows 10 sound drivers about particularly those from realtek or however they are spelled.
Microsoft needs to put its foot down with a firm hand.
Brian

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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can one re register all dlls in the windows folders safely?


The extra sounds i was getting before is not happening now. I am not
getting it on any of the versions must be one of those times when
windows maybe has a burk.


Gene nz



On 7/5/2018 9:04 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
Hi Brian


As mentioned before i have drop box on my computer as a app.


if i go down to the notification area where the drop box icon is and
then press the space bar on it a context menu will come up. It will read
all the items as i arrow down it.


if i then go into preferences i can tab around. I did notice though the
tabs are not spoken out.

There is a check box called like start drop box on system start up. this
will be spoken but if you shift/tab back up once you will not hear any
thing.. But this will put you on a tab called general. you can then use
the right or left arrow keys to navigate the tabs and they will be
spoken. This is with the latest version of drop box and nvda 2018.2.1


There is no add on that i am using for drop box..


But when you tab into the different sections these will be spoken but
the only way you know you are back on a tab is when you shift/tab a few
times and nothing is spoken. It seems to do it on all the sections there.


But when you hear nothing you are on the tab then you can use the right
or left arrow keys then tab key to go through each section.


if you go into the drop box app the ribbens are spoken etc plus
folders/files in drop box.


I have not tried the web version as this app is quite accessible.


Is the above with the tabs what you are talking about under the
preferences section in the notification area?


Also under program files x86 nvda will speak all folders/files that are
part of drop box as well.


Gene nz



On 7/5/2018 8:22 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
The sounds have not actually changed, but of course if you played with
them, then some may well be still there.
I have only the old ones.
Yes that message about delete from just this device etc, is sometimes
irritating but its not the whole story. The question is, can you use
the prefs and share on the context menu of explorer?
Prefs from the icon and share from the application menu in explorer.
You are using windows 10, but I am on 7. However I have had messages
from 7 users off list saying they cannot see any issues with these
dialogues, and of course log in used to work as it could no have been
originally installed and set up without it.
Also after the log in with sighted help on Tuesday, there appears to
be a rudimentary browser launched. this does not read one supposes due
to it not being seen as a system that virtual buffers are created for.
I seem to remember this was always a problem in Dropbox, so its all
very odd.
Dropbox got back to me saying nothing has been changed in the
dialogues, so it must be my end.
All roads seem to lead back to Windows.
I am not reinstalling windows though. That is silly.

There is a video on line on youtube where the guy explains how to
reregister all dll files but since he is using video there is a heck
of a lot of like this and you need to type in exactly what you see on
the screen here, including the funny arrow thing. Not a great deal of
help!

Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand"
<hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can one re register all dlls in the windows
folders safely?


Hi Brian

With a restart of the master snap shot now it reads that message. but
before it did not..

But i am wondering when you get the message that comes up for user
statistics it seems like if it crashes there you get some weird results
after that.

if it does not have a little crash then NVDA works aalright after that.


When i did a update to the next snapshot it was alright.

Weird one.

Another thing i just notice just then is when i start up the master snap
shot i am getting the old nvda sounds and seems like new ones just after
it i think it is the same when i shut it down.

Gene nz

7/5/2018 7:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I don't know how to do it, but I did hear a guy on a video doing it
but he seemed to have to back them all up first and unfortunately as
you can see here is not best for a blindy.

If it can be done safely, is there a tool for this I can use? Remember
I do not want to change any, I've already run sfc /scannow and had to
reinstall the email software afterwards. I'm assuming this does not
check if the dlls are registered.
The whole idea is of course to attempt to get nvda to see the dropbox
dialogues. I'm running out of options here and yes I have run the
file register utility in nvda with no sign of any improvements.
If I can do this safely, and that does not cure the issue, I'm open to
suggestions except installing windows 10 on this machine. I have
reasons for not doing it which are too complex to explain.
Thanks I await the experts to inform me what to do. I could not find
much on Microsoft's site, maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing!

Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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ocr with latest nvda on win7-64

Rusty Perez
 

Hi folks,
I have the ocr addon installed but when I press nvda/R NVDA reports
that it is performing ocr, but I don't know what to do next.
When it is finished, I seem to be back in the exact same place where I started.
I'm trying to read a screen shot provided on a page of instructions.

Any help using OCR with NVDA would be appreciated since I'm also
trying to use software which may only be accessible using OCR..



thanks!
Rusty


Re: Cannot press c or shift+C to jump to combobox

Chris Mullins
 

Hi
The l key will find the lists on the page including "Search by Category". You then have to press spacebar to switch to focus mode, then arrow up/down the list. However, using this method It doesn't seem to read the first item in the list, so you have to arrow up to that.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: 5 July 2018 03:55
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Cannot press c or shift+C to jump to combobox

Same thing for me, NVDA sees it as a clickable list. This will only help
for this page, or I guess any other pages on the site since I guess
they'd do things the same way, but there's an easy way to get right to
where you want to go. If you hit 'b' for "next button", you get taken to
the apply button. You can then arrow up or use shift-tab or whatever to
get to the clickable list and pick a category.


Re: Can one re register all dlls in the windows folders safely?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

And it is this part which has stopped working on my machine. Everything is totally silent but does in fact change. also of course the same issues exist in share and log in as well.
Something in Windows has broken but nobody seems to know what.
I strongly suspect Avast was the culprit when it was removed, but since i never thought to check back then, I have no way to get back without doing a complete restore from back ups and probably losing a lot of stuff and screwing stuff up. I think if there was a command to re register all the existing dll files, then that is likely to fix it. of course since windows throws no errors its hard to diagnose. Nvda merely seems to not be able to see it in the logs as one might expect. Jaws demo does exactly the same it announces the dropbox preferences title and the share title but can see nothing in the open window.
NVDA cannot see anything even with screen and object nave and nvda/b does not read anything either.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can one re register all dlls in the windows folders safely?


Hi Brian


As mentioned before i have drop box on my computer as a app.


if i go down to the notification area where the drop box icon is and
then press the space bar on it a context menu will come up. It will read
all the items as i arrow down it.


if i then go into preferences i can tab around. I did notice though the
tabs are not spoken out.

There is a check box called like start drop box on system start up. this
will be spoken but if you shift/tab back up once you will not hear any
thing.. But this will put you on a tab called general. you can then use
the right or left arrow keys to navigate the tabs and they will be
spoken. This is with the latest version of drop box and nvda 2018.2.1


There is no add on that i am using for drop box..


But when you tab into the different sections these will be spoken but
the only way you know you are back on a tab is when you shift/tab a few
times and nothing is spoken. It seems to do it on all the sections there.


But when you hear nothing you are on the tab then you can use the right
or left arrow keys then tab key to go through each section.


if you go into the drop box app the ribbens are spoken etc plus
folders/files in drop box.


I have not tried the web version as this app is quite accessible.


Is the above with the tabs what you are talking about under the
preferences section in the notification area?


Also under program files x86 nvda will speak all folders/files that are
part of drop box as well.


Gene nz



On 7/5/2018 8:22 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
The sounds have not actually changed, but of course if you played with
them, then some may well be still there.
I have only the old ones.
Yes that message about delete from just this device etc, is sometimes
irritating but its not the whole story. The question is, can you use
the prefs and share on the context menu of explorer?
Prefs from the icon and share from the application menu in explorer.
You are using windows 10, but I am on 7. However I have had messages
from 7 users off list saying they cannot see any issues with these
dialogues, and of course log in used to work as it could no have been
originally installed and set up without it.
Also after the log in with sighted help on Tuesday, there appears to
be a rudimentary browser launched. this does not read one supposes due
to it not being seen as a system that virtual buffers are created for.
I seem to remember this was always a problem in Dropbox, so its all
very odd.
Dropbox got back to me saying nothing has been changed in the
dialogues, so it must be my end.
All roads seem to lead back to Windows.
I am not reinstalling windows though. That is silly.

There is a video on line on youtube where the guy explains how to
reregister all dll files but since he is using video there is a heck
of a lot of like this and you need to type in exactly what you see on
the screen here, including the funny arrow thing. Not a great deal of
help!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand"
<hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can one re register all dlls in the windows
folders safely?


Hi Brian

With a restart of the master snap shot now it reads that message. but
before it did not..

But i am wondering when you get the message that comes up for user
statistics it seems like if it crashes there you get some weird results
after that.

if it does not have a little crash then NVDA works aalright after that.


When i did a update to the next snapshot it was alright.

Weird one.

Another thing i just notice just then is when i start up the master snap
shot i am getting the old nvda sounds and seems like new ones just after
it i think it is the same when i shut it down.

Gene nz

7/5/2018 7:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I don't know how to do it, but I did hear a guy on a video doing it
but he seemed to have to back them all up first and unfortunately as
you can see here is not best for a blindy.

If it can be done safely, is there a tool for this I can use? Remember
I do not want to change any, I've already run sfc /scannow and had to
reinstall the email software afterwards. I'm assuming this does not
check if the dlls are registered.
The whole idea is of course to attempt to get nvda to see the dropbox
dialogues. I'm running out of options here and yes I have run the
file register utility in nvda with no sign of any improvements.
If I can do this safely, and that does not cure the issue, I'm open to
suggestions except installing windows 10 on this machine. I have
reasons for not doing it which are too complex to explain.
Thanks I await the experts to inform me what to do. I could not find
much on Microsoft's site, maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.










Heads Up, Snapsots are changing

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No more master and Next. the page at this time only contains Alpha snaps.
Just in case anyone has not read the discussions on this subject.
Just so you don't moan there have been no updates of late!

Brian

bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: Can one re register all dlls in the windows folders safely?

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

The extra sounds i was getting before is not happening now. I am not
getting it on any of the versions must be one of those times when
windows maybe has a burk.


Gene nz

On 7/5/2018 9:04 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
Hi Brian


As mentioned before i have drop box on my computer as a app.


if i go down to the notification area where the drop box icon is and
then press the space bar on it a context menu will come up. It will read
all the items as i arrow down it.


if i then go into preferences i can tab around. I did notice though the
tabs are not spoken out.

There is a check box called like start drop box on system start up. this
will be spoken but if you shift/tab back up once you will not hear any
thing.. But this will put you on a tab called general. you can then use
the right or left arrow keys to navigate the tabs and they will be
spoken. This is with the latest version of drop box  and nvda 2018.2.1


There is no add on that i am using for drop box..


But when you tab into the different sections these will be spoken but
the only way you know you are back on a tab is when you shift/tab a few
times and nothing is spoken. It seems to do it on all the sections there.


But when you hear nothing you are on the tab then you can use the right
or left arrow keys then tab key to go through each section.


if you go into the drop box app the ribbens are spoken etc plus
folders/files in drop box.


I have not tried the web version as this app is quite accessible.


Is the above with the tabs what you are talking about  under the
preferences section in the notification area?


Also under program files x86 nvda will speak all folders/files that are
part of drop box as well.


Gene nz



On 7/5/2018 8:22 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
The sounds have not actually changed, but of course if you played with
them, then some may well be still there.
I have only the old ones.
Yes that message about delete from just this device etc, is sometimes
irritating but its not the whole story. The question is, can you use
the prefs and share on the context menu of explorer?
Prefs from the icon  and share from the  application menu in explorer.
You are using windows 10, but I am on 7. However I have had messages
from 7 users off list saying they cannot see any issues with these
dialogues, and of course log in used to work as it could no have been
originally installed and set up without it.
Also after the log in with sighted help on Tuesday, there appears to
be a rudimentary browser launched. this does not read one supposes due
to it not being seen as a system that virtual buffers are created for.
I seem to remember this was always a problem in Dropbox, so its all
very odd.
Dropbox got back to me saying nothing has been changed in the
dialogues, so it must be my end.
All roads seem to lead back to Windows.
I am not reinstalling windows though. That is silly.

There is a video on line on youtube where the guy explains how to
reregister all dll files but since he is using video there is a heck
of a lot of like this and you need to type in exactly what you see on
the screen here, including the funny arrow thing. Not a great deal of
help!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand"
<hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can one re register all dlls in the windows
folders safely?


Hi Brian

With a restart of the master snap shot now it reads that message. but
before it did not..

But i am wondering when you get the message that comes up for user
statistics it seems like if it crashes there you get some weird results
after that.

if it does not have a little crash then NVDA works aalright after that.


When i did a update to the next snapshot it was alright.

Weird one.

Another thing i just notice just then is when i start up the master snap
shot i am getting the old nvda sounds and seems like new ones just after
it i think it is the same when i shut it down.

Gene nz

 7/5/2018 7:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I don't know how to do it, but I did hear a guy on a video doing it
but he seemed to have to back them all up first and unfortunately as
you can see here is not best for a blindy.

If it can be done safely, is there a tool for this I can use? Remember
I do not want to change any, I've already run sfc /scannow and had to
reinstall the email software afterwards. I'm assuming this does not
check if the dlls are registered.
The whole idea is of course to attempt to get nvda to see the dropbox
dialogues. I'm running out of options here and yes I have run the
file register utility in nvda with no sign of any improvements.
If I can do this safely, and that does not cure the issue, I'm open to
suggestions except installing windows 10 on this machine. I have
reasons for not doing it which are too complex to explain.
Thanks I await the experts to inform me what to do. I could not find
much on Microsoft's site, maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.







Re: Can one re register all dlls in the windows folders safely?

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Brian


As mentioned before i have drop box on my computer as a app.


if i go down to the notification area where the drop box icon is and
then press the space bar on it a context menu will come up. It will read
all the items as i arrow down it.


if i then go into preferences i can tab around. I did notice though the
tabs are not spoken out.

There is a check box called like start drop box on system start up. this
will be spoken but if you shift/tab back up once you will not hear any
thing.. But this will put you on a tab called general. you can then use
the right or left arrow keys to navigate the tabs and they will be
spoken. This is with the latest version of drop box  and nvda 2018.2.1


There is no add on that i am using for drop box..


But when you tab into the different sections these will be spoken but
the only way you know you are back on a tab is when you shift/tab a few
times and nothing is spoken. It seems to do it on all the sections there.


But when you hear nothing you are on the tab then you can use the right
or left arrow keys then tab key to go through each section.


if you go into the drop box app the ribbens are spoken etc plus
folders/files in drop box.


I have not tried the web version as this app is quite accessible.


Is the above with the tabs what you are talking about  under the
preferences section in the notification area?


Also under program files x86 nvda will speak all folders/files that are
part of drop box as well.


Gene nz

On 7/5/2018 8:22 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
The sounds have not actually changed, but of course if you played with
them, then some may well be still there.
I have only the old ones.
Yes that message about delete from just this device etc, is sometimes
irritating but its not the whole story. The question is, can you use
the prefs and share on the context menu of explorer?
Prefs from the icon  and share from the  application menu in explorer.
You are using windows 10, but I am on 7. However I have had messages
from 7 users off list saying they cannot see any issues with these
dialogues, and of course log in used to work as it could no have been
originally installed and set up without it.
Also after the log in with sighted help on Tuesday, there appears to
be a rudimentary browser launched. this does not read one supposes due
to it not being seen as a system that virtual buffers are created for.
I seem to remember this was always a problem in Dropbox, so its all
very odd.
Dropbox got back to me saying nothing has been changed in the
dialogues, so it must be my end.
All roads seem to lead back to Windows.
I am not reinstalling windows though. That is silly.

There is a video on line on youtube where the guy explains how to
reregister all dll files but since he is using video there is a heck
of a lot of like this and you need to type in exactly what you see on
the screen here, including the funny arrow thing. Not a great deal of
help!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand"
<hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can one re register all dlls in the windows
folders safely?


Hi Brian

With a restart of the master snap shot now it reads that message. but
before it did not..

But i am wondering when you get the message that comes up for user
statistics it seems like if it crashes there you get some weird results
after that.

if it does not have a little crash then NVDA works aalright after that.


When i did a update to the next snapshot it was alright.

Weird one.

Another thing i just notice just then is when i start up the master snap
shot i am getting the old nvda sounds and seems like new ones just after
it i think it is the same when i shut it down.

Gene nz

 7/5/2018 7:39 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I don't know how to do it, but I did hear a guy on a video doing it
but he seemed to have to back them all up first and unfortunately as
you can see here is not best for a blindy.

If it can be done safely, is there a tool for this I can use? Remember
I do not want to change any, I've already run sfc /scannow and had to
reinstall the email software afterwards. I'm assuming this does not
check if the dlls are registered.
The whole idea is of course to attempt to get nvda to see the dropbox
dialogues. I'm running out of options here and yes I have run the
file register utility in nvda with no sign of any improvements.
If I can do this safely, and that does not cure the issue, I'm open to
suggestions except installing windows 10 on this machine. I have
reasons for not doing it which are too complex to explain.
Thanks I await the experts to inform me what to do. I could not find
much on Microsoft's site, maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.








Re: New release system and new snapshot names from Mick

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'm not saying they are wrong in their idea, merely that we have a problem since people have been able to treat master as a beta for some years now, and what is needed is some way to flag this change to those not often on here but who do come on when things go wrong. My work around ideas were just that. As long as when the change is made a simple way out I of it is given, then fine. I do know of a couple of people on this list from time to time who use master in a company, installed by admin so they can have the latest stable at all times, but these people will need to contact their admins in order to put them on the new beta channel. One assumes that master will be ported to that channel for the time being so that people can still have a working version.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io" <the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] New release system and new snapshot names from Mick


well, after reading about this I think I agree with the devs. I am also pleased to see Nvda improving the way it is being updated. I would hope that most people who run master or the new beta are aware that things may not work as expected.

On 04/07/2018 07:36, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.I wrote:
From: "Mick Curran" <mick@...>
To: "NVDA screen reader development" <nvda-devel@...>;
<nvda-translations@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 2:43 AM
Subject: [Nvda-devel] Changes to release process


Hi contributors,


We have made some small changes to the NVDA release process. Please read
the updated Release Process article carefully to understand the changes
and how they will affect you.

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/ReleaseProcess


In short, Next/incubation is going away, and prs are going to be merged
straight to master. Periodic betas will be offered startin from 5 weeks
before a release.

Please read the entire article to understand the changes fully.


Translators should not be directly affected by this change. Though
technically, translations are now based on a new "beta" branch rather than
master.


Mick









--
--
Mick Curran
Executive Director, NV Access Limited
PH: +61 7 3149 3306 ext. 101
www: http://www.nvaccess.org/
Twitter: @NVAccess
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess


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Brian comments. I think this is actually going to affect people on this list
like myself who use the bleeding edge code as portable versions and master
as a daily working version.
I worry a little hear about a large number of untested by users items
arriving in the beta all at once which might be a little scary if a lot of
people find issues. At the moment they hit next regularly and one can see
the wood for the trees so to speak.

If you have any comments, send them to Mick not me though, as I do not see
any kind of consultation with users on this one.
Brian

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