Hello everyone,

Object Location Tones 20.12 is now available. This release includes compatibility range updates and nothing else.

IMPORTANT: version 20.12 is the last version of Object Location Tones. Effective January 31, 2021, I will be stepping down from actively maintaining this add-on. Thank you for your support of Object Location Tones for the last few years, and I hope someone will make this add-on great in the future.

Cheers,

Joseph

I am in a Zoom meeting right now, and can confirm that NVDA does not
speak when arrowing down after six participants. Interestingly, if you
go to the bottom of the list and use your up arrow, the same thing
happens. I waited several seconds before pressing the arrow key again,
and NVDA never spoke.

On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

When testing a problem like this, it may be helpful to test for such things.

Assuming that something is or isn't happening may lead to an incorrect
description of a problem.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 11:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Nor have I done much testing with this, as I'm usually trying to focus
on the meeting I'm attending, but I do not expect my screen reader, no
matter what it is, to suddenly be delayed by several seconds after
arrowing down a half a dozen times with no problem whatsoever. I may
have a meeting on Saturday, so I will play around with this if that
meeting happens.

On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

How long do you wait before deciding that nothing will be read? The
meetings I attend generally don't have a lot of attendees. Generally
something like eight or ten. If I down arrow a lot of times, speech is
delayed, I didn't play with this much because I wanted to hear what was
going on in the meeting, but it seemed to me that in perhaps ten seconds,

I

would hear something.

It might help those analyzing the problem if they knew if speech stops or

is

very delayed. I didn't do enough testing to know on my machine. I may
when

I attend another meeting.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sim Kah Yong
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 8:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hi

I tried the read current line or the read the current line of the
navigation object and NVDA reads to me when I encounter the problem.
This is just a work-around, how nice if a solution can be found for
this. Thanks.

On 11/30/2020 11:07 AM, Gene wrote:

What happens if you down arrow and when speech stops, read the current
line. You can also try reading the current line of the navigator object,
in the desktop layout, numpad 8. I don't know the laptop layout. You
may

not hear anything but if this combination allows you to hear the names
as

you move, that may be a work around that is reasonable for now.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sky Mundell
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hello Bob. Just curious, does SA have that problem? System Access I
mean?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob
Cavanaugh
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 6:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

I have this issue too. What I've found to work is to hit your up arrow
when you get to the point where it goes silent, then your down arrow
again. That helps for a brief time, then you have to repeat that process
again. I agree, kind of annoying. I'm also having two additional issues
with NVDA not reading things properly in Zoom:
1. When typing anything in Zoom and you type something wrong, NVDA does
not read what you backspace. It reads if you type things normally, but
if

you try to review or correct an error, it will not read.
2. If you're in a meeting that initially isn't being recorded, then the
host starts recording, NVDA does not read the alert that tells you that
the meeting is now being recorded.

On 11/29/20, Sim Kah Yong <simkahyong@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Wish to report the above problem when using NVDA in Zoom. IN a zoom
meeting, if I wish to find out the list of participants, I will press
alt + U to call out the participants panel. I will then arrow down the
list. After severl down arrow, NVDA will stop speaking.

I am using the latest version of NVDA, Zoom enhancement app and Zoom.
This problem has been there even with the older version of NVDA and
Zoom. I am using Windows 8.1. I have tried the following with no avail:

1. Wit no apps

2. restart NVDA

3. Re-boot my computer.

Just wish to find out if any of you have similar problem and what can
be done? Perhaps this can help to improve future version of NVDA.

I have also use JAWS and this has not been a problem. Thanks all.

Matthew,

          I suggest you try asking about this on the NVDA Screen Reader Development Group:

This list is provided for discussion about development for the NVDA (NonVisual Desktop Access) screen reading software. This includes questions and discussion about the code, user experience, design and documentation, both between regular developers and new or potential developers.

• Post: nvda-devel@groups.io
• Subscribe: nvda-devel+subscribe@groups.io
• Unsubscribe: nvda-devel+unsubscribe@groups.io
• Group Owner: nvda-devel+owner@groups.io
• Help: nvda-devel+help@groups.io
• -- 

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

And for those who were formerly sighted and were former "point and clickers," they instantly know what the "to keyboard" translation is.

-
. . . somehow I deleted, "after being told, usually once, what those equivalent keyboard shortcuts/actions are."  It's not something I've seen most computer users, blind or sighted, agonize over.  You learn how to do what it is, in the way you need to do it, to achieve a result.  

I've seen a lot, lot, lot, more clueless sighted people about how things are done using the keyboard as the access method than I've met blind individuals who don't know exactly how to follow sighted directions doing their own "to keyboard" translations on the fly.  They'd be cutting themselves off from the vast majority of documentation that's available in this world were they not prepared to do so.

I've also encountered about as many computer users, sighted or blind, who've never been taught or learned "what controls what."  By that I mean what commands are handled by the operating system, versus their screen reader (when it's a screen reader user), versus the application program they're using.  That's something I actually try to teach people to think about every time they hit a stumbling block.  You can't move forward unless you know which level of interaction is where that stumbling block lies.  And it's generally not all that hard to figure out once you get used to doing it when required.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 08:54 PM, Gene wrote:

Most blind Windows users do not know that enter is the equivalent of a left double clicck, that space is equivalent of a left single click and that opening the context menu with the context menu key is equivalent to a right mouse click. this simply isn't tought consistently to blind people in general and it is this specific knowledge that is necessary to use the system tray directly.

-
Gene, plain and simple, I call BS!   I have been around screen reader users for well over a decade now, ranging in age from under 15 years old up through individuals in their 80s.  They absolutely do know these things, as a matter of routine, or they'd be unable to function with a screen reader.

You don't have to be explicitly taught, instructed, etc., to figure out certain things you need to know on your own.  Though I will never deny that instruction helps.  I'm just not seeing these broad swaths of unaware individuals.

I'm not new to this dance, and your assertions are in direct contradiction to my observations and experience since 2010.  Your endless plaint that screen reader users cannot be expected to know the very basics of screen reader use is just not borne out in the real world, except in the case of complete neophytes, and that is not the bulk of the demographic that is here on this group, nor on any screen reader user group.  And those who do identify themselves as neophytes, which they need to do when they are, tend to get a lot more guidance and patience than would be warranted otherwise.

And I am completely out of patience with your endless insistence that the complete neophyte or the completely unaware are the common denominator.  They are not.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 

I am in a Zoom meeting right now, and can confirm that NVDA does not
speak when arrowing down after six participants. Interestingly, if you
go to the bottom of the list and use your up arrow, the same thing
happens. I waited several seconds before pressing the arrow key again,
and NVDA never spoke.

On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

When testing a problem like this, it may be helpful to test for such
things.

Assuming that something is or isn't happening may lead to an incorrect
description of a problem.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 11:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Nor have I done much testing with this, as I'm usually trying to focus
on the meeting I'm attending, but I do not expect my screen reader, no
matter what it is, to suddenly be delayed by several seconds after
arrowing down a half a dozen times with no problem whatsoever. I may
have a meeting on Saturday, so I will play around with this if that
meeting happens.

On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

How long do you wait before deciding that nothing will be read? The
meetings I attend generally don't have a lot of attendees. Generally
something like eight or ten. If I down arrow a lot of times, speech is
delayed, I didn't play with this much because I wanted to hear what was
going on in the meeting, but it seemed to me that in perhaps ten
seconds,

I

would hear something.

It might help those analyzing the problem if they knew if speech stops
or

is

very delayed. I didn't do enough testing to know on my machine. I may
when

I attend another meeting.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sim Kah Yong
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 8:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hi

I tried the read current line or the read the current line of the
navigation object and NVDA reads to me when I encounter the problem.
This is just a work-around, how nice if a solution can be found for
this. Thanks.

On 11/30/2020 11:07 AM, Gene wrote:

What happens if you down arrow and when speech stops, read the current
line. You can also try reading the current line of the navigator
object,
in the desktop layout, numpad 8. I don't know the laptop layout. You
may

not hear anything but if this combination allows you to hear the names
as

you move, that may be a work around that is reasonable for now.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sky Mundell
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hello Bob. Just curious, does SA have that problem? System Access I
mean?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob
Cavanaugh
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 6:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

I have this issue too. What I've found to work is to hit your up arrow
when you get to the point where it goes silent, then your down arrow
again. That helps for a brief time, then you have to repeat that
process
again. I agree, kind of annoying. I'm also having two additional issues
with NVDA not reading things properly in Zoom:
1. When typing anything in Zoom and you type something wrong, NVDA does
not read what you backspace. It reads if you type things normally, but
if

you try to review or correct an error, it will not read.
2. If you're in a meeting that initially isn't being recorded, then the
host starts recording, NVDA does not read the alert that tells you that
the meeting is now being recorded.

On 11/29/20, Sim Kah Yong <simkahyong@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Wish to report the above problem when using NVDA in Zoom. IN a zoom
meeting, if I wish to find out the list of participants, I will press
alt + U to call out the participants panel. I will then arrow down the
list. After severl down arrow, NVDA will stop speaking.

I am using the latest version of NVDA, Zoom enhancement app and Zoom.
This problem has been there even with the older version of NVDA and
Zoom. I am using Windows 8.1. I have tried the following with no
avail:

1. Wit no apps

2. restart NVDA

3. Re-boot my computer.

Just wish to find out if any of you have similar problem and what can
be done? Perhaps this can help to improve future version of NVDA.

I have also use JAWS and this has not been a problem. Thanks all.

They probably want you to be on there mobile apps  whether that be I os or android .  that’s   where  they make most of  their profits from. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ame
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] sudden changes to Hulu's website

 

Well, this is no bug.  I was told by a chat agent that NVDA is no longer supported by Hulu.  That’s absolutely ridiculous.  I have NVDA because I can’t afford jaws,  Window eyes or any of the other commercial screen readers.  I can access Hulu’s content with narrator but it’s so clumsy as I said.  There’s no reason for them to do that.  I wonder who I could approach about getting them to reinstate support for NVDA.  Like I said, up till last Thursday afternoon, I never had a single problem navigating the site or accessing content.  The change was very sudden.  I’m beyond furious. 

Well, this is no bug.  I was told by a chat agent that NVDA is no longer supported by Hulu.  That’s absolutely ridiculous.  I have NVDA because I can’t afford jaws,  Window eyes or any of the other commercial screen readers.  I can access Hulu’s content with narrator but it’s so clumsy as I said.  There’s no reason for them to do that.  I wonder who I could approach about getting them to reinstate support for NVDA.  Like I said, up till last Thursday afternoon, I never had a single problem navigating the site or accessing content.  The change was very sudden.  I’m beyond furious. 

.

When testing a problem like this, it may be helpful to test for such things.

Assuming that something is or isn't happening may lead to an incorrect
description of a problem.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 11:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Nor have I done much testing with this, as I'm usually trying to focus
on the meeting I'm attending, but I do not expect my screen reader, no
matter what it is, to suddenly be delayed by several seconds after
arrowing down a half a dozen times with no problem whatsoever. I may
have a meeting on Saturday, so I will play around with this if that
meeting happens.

On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

How long do you wait before deciding that nothing will be read? The
meetings I attend generally don't have a lot of attendees. Generally
something like eight or ten. If I down arrow a lot of times, speech is
delayed, I didn't play with this much because I wanted to hear what was
going on in the meeting, but it seemed to me that in perhaps ten seconds,

I

would hear something.

It might help those analyzing the problem if they knew if speech stops or

is

very delayed. I didn't do enough testing to know on my machine. I may
when

I attend another meeting.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sim Kah Yong
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 8:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hi

I tried the read current line or the read the current line of the
navigation object and NVDA reads to me when I encounter the problem.
This is just a work-around, how nice if a solution can be found for
this. Thanks.

On 11/30/2020 11:07 AM, Gene wrote:

What happens if you down arrow and when speech stops, read the current
line. You can also try reading the current line of the navigator object,
in the desktop layout, numpad 8. I don't know the laptop layout. You
may

not hear anything but if this combination allows you to hear the names
as

you move, that may be a work around that is reasonable for now.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sky Mundell
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

Hello Bob. Just curious, does SA have that problem? System Access I
mean?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob
Cavanaugh
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 6:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of
participants panel in Zoom

I have this issue too. What I've found to work is to hit your up arrow
when you get to the point where it goes silent, then your down arrow
again. That helps for a brief time, then you have to repeat that process
again. I agree, kind of annoying. I'm also having two additional issues
with NVDA not reading things properly in Zoom:
1. When typing anything in Zoom and you type something wrong, NVDA does
not read what you backspace. It reads if you type things normally, but
if

you try to review or correct an error, it will not read.
2. If you're in a meeting that initially isn't being recorded, then the
host starts recording, NVDA does not read the alert that tells you that
the meeting is now being recorded.

On 11/29/20, Sim Kah Yong <simkahyong@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Wish to report the above problem when using NVDA in Zoom. IN a zoom
meeting, if I wish to find out the list of participants, I will press
alt + U to call out the participants panel. I will then arrow down the
list. After severl down arrow, NVDA will stop speaking.

I am using the latest version of NVDA, Zoom enhancement app and Zoom.
This problem has been there even with the older version of NVDA and
Zoom. I am using Windows 8.1. I have tried the following with no avail:

1. Wit no apps

2. restart NVDA

3. Re-boot my computer.

Just wish to find out if any of you have similar problem and what can
be done? Perhaps this can help to improve future version of NVDA.

I have also use JAWS and this has not been a problem. Thanks all.