December 2020 localization updates: Add-on Updater, StationPlaylist, Windows 10 App Essentials
#addonrelease
Hello all, Three add-ons with localization updates are now available:
A few notes:
As always, you can check for these add-on updates via an add-on that’s also being updated today (no, I’m not a poet, but…). Cheers, Joseph
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Re: Object Location Tones 20.12, final version of the add-on
#addonrelease
mike mcglashon
What is object location tones? Is it n v d a addon? And if so , what does it do?
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 12:52 AM To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Object Location Tones 20.12, final version of the add-on #addonRelease
Hello everyone, Object Location Tones 20.12 is now available. This release includes compatibility range updates and nothing else.
IMPORTANT: version 20.12 is the last version of Object Location Tones. Effective January 31, 2021, I will be stepping down from actively maintaining this add-on. Thank you for your support of Object Location Tones for the last few years, and I hope someone will make this add-on great in the future. Cheers, Joseph
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Object Location Tones 20.12, final version of the add-on
#addonrelease
Hello everyone, Object Location Tones 20.12 is now available. This release includes compatibility range updates and nothing else.
IMPORTANT: version 20.12 is the last version of Object Location Tones. Effective January 31, 2021, I will be stepping down from actively maintaining this add-on. Thank you for your support of Object Location Tones for the last few years, and I hope someone will make this add-on great in the future. Cheers, Joseph
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Re: NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of participants panel in Zoom
hurrikennyandopo ...
Hi
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Is that with the zoom add on you still get that result or is it without it? Gene nz
On 9/12/2020 4:26 pm, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
I am in a Zoom meeting right now, and can confirm that NVDA does not
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Re: Trying to build NVDA from source using the directions I found on GitHub and having problems with liblouis
Hi all, Apart from directing folks there, the real issue (based on the SCons output) is incomplete build environment – to build liblouis.dll, you must install Clang and the path must be added by Clang installer (you must do this while installing Visual Studio 2019 Community or above). Cheers, Jsoeph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 8:51 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Trying to build nvda fr9om source using the directons I found on github and having problems with libluies
Matthew,
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Re: add-on for accessing the system tray
g melconian
That’s true.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 7:31 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] add-on for accessing the system tray
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Re: Trying to build NVDA from source using the directions I found on GitHub and having problems with liblouis
Matthew,
I suggest you try asking about this on the NVDA Screen Reader Development Group: This list is provided for discussion about development for the NVDA (NonVisual Desktop Access) screen reading software. This includes questions and discussion about the code, user experience, design and documentation, both between regular developers and new or potential developers.
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Re: add-on for accessing the system tray
Actually I was never taught that in my training classes. I learned these things years and years and years after I got my training. In fact I was told, never press enter on a button, ever, it's space or nothing at all, which is what I do 20 years later. All I was told about the sighted keys is "click is space" and that's it. -- Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. Check out my adventures with a shadow machine. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
On 8 Dec 2020, at 19:04, Brian Vogel wrote:
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Trying to build NVDA from source using the directions I found on GitHub and having problems with liblouis
matthew dyer <ilovecountrymusic483@...>
Hi all,
Not sure if this is the list to get the help for this, but with some extra time on my hands, thought I would try learning how to run and build nvda from source. I find that I do just fine except that scons complains about liblooies. Here is the output I get. I will try to clean it up so it is not so long. I tried to get a copy of liblooies but did not find a way to install it so that it would find it during the build prosses. And now here is the output. Creating 'build\x86\liblouis\liblouis.h' clang-cl /Fobuild\x86\liblouis\compileTranslationTable.c.obj /c include\liblouis\liblouis\compileTranslationTable.c /W2 /D_CRT_SECURE_NO_DEPRECATE /DLOGLEVEL=15 /D_WIN32_WINNT=_WIN32_WINNT_WIN7 /DNDEBUG /D_CRT_NONSTDC_NO_DEPRECATE /DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"3.15.0\" /DWIDECHARS_ARE_UCS4 /D_EXPORTING /Ibuild\x86\liblouis /Iinclude\liblouis\liblouis /Iinclude /Imiscdeps\include /Ibuild\x86 /Z7 'clang-cl' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. scons: *** [build\x86\liblouis\compileTranslationTable.c.obj] Error 1 scons: building terminated because of errors. PS C:\Users\ilove\nvda>
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Re: NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of participants panel in Zoom
Bob Cavanaugh
Okay, now that my meeting is over I can give more detail.
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In Zoom, open the participants panel, and hit your down arrow. It reads the first six participants normally, then does not read anymore, I waited a couple seconds before pressing the arrow key to make sure there was no delay. If you keep pressing down arrow and there are only about a dozen participants as there were in my meeting tonight, you will soon loop back to the top of the list, and NVDA exhibits the same behavior. If you press your up arrow once, then press down arrow again, NVDA reads both participants encountered, but pressing down arrow a second time gives silence. To give a clearer example, let's say there are 15 participants in a meeting, as there were in mine tonight. I opened the participant panel, and saw that my name was at the top. I pressed down arrow five times, landing on the sixth participant in the list with no problem. I press down arrow again to navigate to the seventh participant, NVDA does not say a word. I press up arrow once, NVDA reads the name of the sixth participant again. I then press down arrow again, and it reads the seventh participant as expected. I then press down arrow to move to the eighth participant, which NVDA does not read. If I continue to press down arrow, NVDA continues to be silent, until it loops back to the top of the list, where as mentioned above, it reads the first six participants. If however I press my up arrow here, it reads the previous five participants, then goes silent until it gets to the bottom of the list, where just like the down arrow at the top of the list, it reads the bottom six. Using your down arrow after the up arrow has gone silent also reads the next five. I hope this makes sense.
On 12/8/20, Bob Cavanaugh via groups.io <cavbob1993=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I am in a Zoom meeting right now, and can confirm that NVDA does not
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Re: NVDA is not working in Excel 2019
Quentin Christensen
There have been issues on and off with formatting in Excel (well reading the formatting at least). My understanding of how things work at present: - If you have NVDA's document formatting (NVDA+control+d) set to report changes in font / colour etc, these are read out. - If you press NVDA+f on a cell, NVDA reports "No caret". - If you press F2 to edit a cell and immediately press NVDA+f (with the focus at the end of the text), nvda reads "No formatting information". - If you press F2 to edit a cell and then press left arrow to move before the last character, then press NVDA+f, NVDA WILL read the formatting information. Here are a couple of our issues on it: (I must go through and check the differences between those) The issue Brian mentioned about formatting information not being read in the cell format dialog (CONTROL+1) is a slightly different issue, it just coincidentally happens to be particularly noticeable on the formatting dialog. The issue is that NVDA can't read selected text in those edit boxes - and when you tab to any of those edit boxes, the text in the box you land on is selected. If you press an arrow key to unselect the text and then press NVDA+up arrow (or NVDA+l), NVDA will read the name of the font, or other information in the edit. Our issue on that is here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11504 As always, if you can add any extra information to any of those issues, please do comment on the issues, as it will prompt people to look at them again. Kind regards Quentin.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 4:23 AM Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías via groups.io <cesteban.martinez=nvda.es@groups.io> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Re: sudden changes to Hulu's website
True, a lot of the market seems to be going that way but not everyone wants to be on apps.
On 9/12/2020 12:45 pm, g melconian
wrote:
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Re: sudden changes to Hulu's website
Well I do help test for supernova and have my own reasons for doing so, but hmmm I'd never use that online, its not a problem I just don't agree with the methods of brousing the net with supernova at all. Its not that smooth. Basically not to start a war here, but when your wedded to using virtual cursers to access just about everything online when something like nvda doesn't need to do that just doesn't make much sence now I have used it. If hulu is actually against nvda, we can just complain how not accessible it is, sadly we can't sue though they must be breaking a lot of access laws and for what? No one is going to get jaws for hulu. To be honest thats another service I will have to tell others not to recommend, I'd cancle my subscription and such immediately.
On 9/12/2020 12:43 pm, Ame wrote:
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Re: Spellcheck: How do I read the misspelled word in context?
Gene
That isn't what is wanted. What is wanted is a way to hear the word in the sentence in which it occurs. I am not going to say that NVDA doesn't have this ability. I will say that I don't know of a way.
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Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Fresh Start Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 9:14 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Spellcheck: Howe do I read the mispelled word in context Reading a misspelled word in context in NVDA to read the word again, press Numpad 5 in Desktop keyboard layout, or NVDA+control+. In laptop keyboard layout. To spell the word again, press the keystroke twice quickly. To read the sentence again, press NVDA+up arrow or NVDA+l. -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 4:17 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Spellcheck: Howe do I read the mispelled word in context when checking a document for spelling, how do I get NVDA to read the sentence the word belongs to? Advanced versions of Word do offer their own solution, but in 2013 there is no external voicing of the sentence.
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Re: add-on for accessing the system tray
Gene
After this message, I will have said everything I have to say on the topic. I won't comment further. If you or others want to comment, I'll read comments with interest but anything more I would say would be repetition.
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On further reflection, the function of enter varies with the context. In the system tray, it is left double click. Clearly, it isn't in lists and tree views. You can press enter as often and as quickly as you want on an unselected item in a list and nothing will happen. In a list, you select something by moving to it with the arrow keys or by pressing the space bar. You then activate it by pressing enter. With the mouse, you click once to select, then click again to have the selected item take an action. You don't have to know these things to do a great deal in Windows as a blind person. You need to know that you select something in a list by moving to it and press enter. Most people do not know what I am talking about when it comes to enter having different functions depending on context. And they don't know that in the system tray enter is double click or what the other commands I've mentioned do in the system tray. Also, I don't have the endless plaint you speak of nor the common denominator position you state, but those things have nothing to do with the discussion. Either most blind people know what I am saying about the system tray and how enter varies depending on context or they don't. I didn't bring up the system tray documentation to generalize or discuss other questions. I am discussing the system tray and documentation. My point is that the manual should include a brief discussion on how to use the real system tray. the system tray dialog has buttons for doing these things. Most people don't know the system tray commands. Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 9:04 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] add-on for accessing the system tray On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 08:54 PM, Gene wrote: Most blind Windows users do not know that enter is the equivalent of a left double click, that space is equivalent of a left single click and that opening the context menu with the context menu key is equivalent to a right mouse click. this simply isn't thought consistently to blind people in general and it is this specific knowledge that is necessary to use the system tray directly.- Gene, plain and simple, I call BS! I have been around screen reader users for well over a decade now, ranging in age from under 15 years old up through individuals in their 80s. They absolutely do know these things, as a matter of routine, or they'd be unable to function with a screen reader. You don't have to be explicitly taught, instructed, etc., to figure out certain things you need to know on your own. Though I will never deny that instruction helps. I'm just not seeing these broad swaths of unaware individuals. I'm not new to this dance, and your assertions are in direct contradiction to my observations and experience since 2010. Your endless plaint that screen reader users cannot be expected to know the very basics of screen reader use is just not borne out in the real world, except in the case of complete neophytes, and that is not the bulk of the demographic that is here on this group, nor on any screen reader user group. And those who do identify themselves as neophytes, which they need to do when they are, tend to get a lot more guidance and patience than would be warranted otherwise. And I am completely out of patience with your endless insistence that the complete neophyte or the completely unaware are the common denominator. They are not. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Re: add-on for accessing the system tray
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
And for those who were formerly sighted and were former "point and clickers," they instantly know what the "to keyboard" translation is.- . . . somehow I deleted, "after being told, usually once, what those equivalent keyboard shortcuts/actions are." It's not something I've seen most computer users, blind or sighted, agonize over. You learn how to do what it is, in the way you need to do it, to achieve a result. I've seen a lot, lot, lot, more clueless sighted people about how things are done using the keyboard as the access method than I've met blind individuals who don't know exactly how to follow sighted directions doing their own "to keyboard" translations on the fly. They'd be cutting themselves off from the vast majority of documentation that's available in this world were they not prepared to do so. I've also encountered about as many computer users, sighted or blind, who've never been taught or learned "what controls what." By that I mean what commands are handled by the operating system, versus their screen reader (when it's a screen reader user), versus the application program they're using. That's something I actually try to teach people to think about every time they hit a stumbling block. You can't move forward unless you know which level of interaction is where that stumbling block lies. And it's generally not all that hard to figure out once you get used to doing it when required. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Re: NVDA goes silent when arrowing down the list of participants panel in Zoom
Bob Cavanaugh
I am in a Zoom meeting right now, and can confirm that NVDA does not
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
speak when arrowing down after six participants. Interestingly, if you go to the bottom of the list and use your up arrow, the same thing happens. I waited several seconds before pressing the arrow key again, and NVDA never spoke.
On 12/2/20, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
When testing a problem like this, it may be helpful to test for such things.
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Re: add-on for accessing the system tray
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:15 PM, Gene wrote:
They are taught to press enter to take an action after you select it with the arrow keys. they are not taught whether they are double or single clicking nor that what enter does appears to change with the context.- Potato, po-tah-to. This is the kind of hair splitting I'm not even going to try to address. It's about the mechanics of getting the same result. The exact how is not what's relevant here. Most blind users can read directions written for the sighted and know what click, double click, right click, left click, bring up the context menu, etc., mean in terms of the method(s) they use to do what the point and click equivalent does. It's not the how that's important, it's getting the desired action to take place. Most, with the exception of complete neophytes, already know this. And for those who were formerly sighted and were former "point and clickers," they instantly know what the "to keyboard" translation is. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Re: add-on for accessing the system tray
Gene
That simply isn't true and I have been around my share of blind windows users. If you know that you press enter to do things like play a file, or open something in a list, you can do that and not know you are executing a double left click. Indeed, on further reflection, you aren't. The purpose of a double left click is to first select something, then click it. In the case of moving in lists and tree views, the act of movement with the arrow keys selects something, thus performing the first click. When you press enter, you are performing the second click. Thus, what I stated, on further reflection, that enter is a double click is questionable as a generalization. You can't select and open something that isn't already selected by pressing enter. You can't take any action in a list or some other structures where you first click to select something then click to take an action on the selected item. You can press enter as often and as quickly as you like on an unselected item in a list and nothing will happen. Thus, I don't know how enter is defined as a Windows command. It appears to change with context. In the system tray, it is double click. In a list it isn't.
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Most blind windows users simply do not know or care about these kinds of distinctions. They are taught to press enter to take an action after you select it with the arrow keys. they are not taught whether they are double or single clicking nor that what enter does appears to change with the context. Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 9:04 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] add-on for accessing the system tray On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 08:54 PM, Gene wrote: Most blind Windows users do not know that enter is the equivalent of a left double clicck, that space is equivalent of a left single click and that opening the context menu with the context menu key is equivalent to a right mouse click. this simply isn't tought consistently to blind people in general and it is this specific knowledge that is necessary to use the system tray directly.- Gene, plain and simple, I call BS! I have been around screen reader users for well over a decade now, ranging in age from under 15 years old up through individuals in their 80s. They absolutely do know these things, as a matter of routine, or they'd be unable to function with a screen reader. You don't have to be explicitly taught, instructed, etc., to figure out certain things you need to know on your own. Though I will never deny that instruction helps. I'm just not seeing these broad swaths of unaware individuals. I'm not new to this dance, and your assertions are in direct contradiction to my observations and experience since 2010. Your endless plaint that screen reader users cannot be expected to know the very basics of screen reader use is just not borne out in the real world, except in the case of complete neophytes, and that is not the bulk of the demographic that is here on this group, nor on any screen reader user group. And those who do identify themselves as neophytes, which they need to do when they are, tend to get a lot more guidance and patience than would be warranted otherwise. And I am completely out of patience with your endless insistence that the complete neophyte or the completely unaware are the common denominator. They are not. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Re: Spellcheck: How do I read the misspelled word in context?
Fresh Start <dan@...>
Reading a misspelled word in context in NVDA
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
to read the word again, press Numpad 5 in Desktop keyboard layout, or NVDA+control+. In laptop keyboard layout. To spell the word again, press the keystroke twice quickly. To read the sentence again, press NVDA+up arrow or NVDA+l.
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 4:17 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Spellcheck: Howe do I read the mispelled word in context when checking a document for spelling, how do I get NVDA to read the sentence the word belongs to? Advanced versions of Word do offer their own solution, but in 2013 there is no external voicing of the sentence.
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