Date   

Re: Braille Formatting

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Gentlemen,

The setting for this is sometimes called “Compress blank spaces” as it is called in the Orbit Reader. I would expect the Braille display to manage this rather than NVDA. Does the Brailliant offer such a choice?

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 10:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille Formatting

 

Not that I can think of.  There is a Braille setting to "Read by paragraph" but I think it uses the Word model of hard line break (eg when you've pressed enter while typing) = new paragraph.

 

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:41 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:

Thanks, Quentin.  I didn’t, but you are correct in that the panning works well for long sentences.  However, I’m assuming there isn’t a way to set the display to bring the next sentence up to fill the rest of the display where the previous sentence ended?

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 9:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille Formatting

 

Did you get an answer to this?  The only thing I can think of is could it simply be the document?  EG this first line of my reply is quite long and although visually it likely wraps to a second line, it is one "line" and should pan correctly on a Braille display.

This line is short.

This too.

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 12:17 AM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:

Hi All,

 

While reading a document with my Brailliant BI 40, the text fills the entire display for the first several pans, but then I may see one or two words and a mostly blank line until I advance the display again.  I am seeing this in Google Docs, Word and even Notepad.  Which setting do I need to change within NVDA to ensure that each advance of the display fills the entire display with text?


Thanks,
Jonathan

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: accenting letters

 

Although all who have mentioned that accented characters are indeed separate characters with separate character codes, and that these can be inserted using the ALT+ unicode method, there are programs, MS-Word being one, where you can get these by entering "the accent mark sequence," usually CTRL+ the accent mark you want, BEFORE typing the character upon which you want that accent placed.

See:  

Keyboard shortcuts to add language accent marks in Word

or any of a number of the tutorials returned by: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=accented+characters+MS-Word 

Word processors (and, maybe, office suite programs in general) make this somewhat easier via "accent followed by character" technique than many other types of programs do, and where the ALT+ unicode is required.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Braille Formatting

Quentin Christensen
 

Not that I can think of.  There is a Braille setting to "Read by paragraph" but I think it uses the Word model of hard line break (eg when you've pressed enter while typing) = new paragraph.


On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:41 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:

Thanks, Quentin.  I didn’t, but you are correct in that the panning works well for long sentences.  However, I’m assuming there isn’t a way to set the display to bring the next sentence up to fill the rest of the display where the previous sentence ended?

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 9:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille Formatting

 

Did you get an answer to this?  The only thing I can think of is could it simply be the document?  EG this first line of my reply is quite long and although visually it likely wraps to a second line, it is one "line" and should pan correctly on a Braille display.

This line is short.

This too.

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 12:17 AM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:

Hi All,

 

While reading a document with my Brailliant BI 40, the text fills the entire display for the first several pans, but then I may see one or two words and a mostly blank line until I advance the display again.  I am seeing this in Google Docs, Word and even Notepad.  Which setting do I need to change within NVDA to ensure that each advance of the display fills the entire display with text?


Thanks,
Jonathan

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: accenting letters

Quentin Christensen
 

You can hold down ALT, type a number and release alt.  For instance, to type an "a acute", á, press alt, type the numbers 0 2 2 5 and let go.  Here's a chart: https://sites.psu.edu/symbolcodes/windows/codealt/

If you have to type a particular letter regularly, you will likely get used to that sequence.  For instance, I've used the British pound symbol a few times, and remember that it is alt 1 5 6: £.

In some cases, you might find creating a reference file you can quickly access to pull up commonly used symbols.  EG if you work with a lot of different currencies, or music symbols.

If you need to type the letters from a particular language regularly, then you can set Windows up to use the keyboard for that language in Windows Language settings, then you can switch between them with WINDOWS+spacebar.

Regards

Quentin.
Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 10:18 PM Robert Doc Wright godfearer <godfearer@...> wrote:
What do I need to do to accent a letter. I tried what google suggested, pressing ctrl+(apostrophe) then quickly releasing and pressing the letter. this doesn't seem to work.
 
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Re: accenting letters

JM Casey
 

Hey Robert.

 

Every accented letter will have a different character code. They are each their own symbol; you don’t “add the accents to letters”, as such, as far as the pC is concerned.

So, for the specific accent you want, you can look up the character code (alt code) on the web (or in the windows character map if you can figure it out – it’s gotten a bit more complicated since the XP days and I think I’ve more or less given up on it)…and enter it.

I usually do this by turning the numlock on on my number pad, and entering in the code while holding down the alt key.

So for example, for an e acute, I would enter alt 130.

There are different encoding systems so there are several ways of getting the same characters. But this method works for most common accented letters.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: March 30, 2021 07:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: **** [SUSPECTED SPAM] ****[nvda] accenting letters

 

What do I need to do to accent a letter. I tried what google suggested, pressing ctrl+(apostrophe) then quickly releasing and pressing the letter. this doesn't seem to work.

 

*********
family Times weekly Movie times

 


go to Doc's Stream
http://stream.wrighthere.net:8000/stream.mp3
Ask Miss A to play family times on tuneIn
You can also find family times on OoTunes.

 

 


walking in VictoryI welcome all that are interested in joining our devotionals on Monday thru saturdays at 8am EST. join the devotion channel.
Also, there is a weekly bible study at 8pm EST in the Walking with Jesus channel.

 


Add the following information in your TeamTalk
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entry name: walking in Victory
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Re: problems with a punctuation mark

Arlene
 

Hi, I’ve seen that with windoweyes and I think they do it with Jaws if you want it to. NVDA’S had been using Bang as the exclamation mark for some time. I have Jaws say Bang just as NVDA does.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Louise Pfau
Sent: March 30, 2021 11:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problems with a punctuation mark

 

Using "bang" for the exclamation mark doesn't make sense for North American

users either, since it's not called that in North America.  Both "Espeak NG"

and "Windows OneCore" call it "Bang", and I couldn't figure out what was

meant.

 

Louise

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: problems with a punctuation mark

 

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 02:50 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
Using "bang" for the exclamation mark doesn't make sense for North American users either, since it's not called that in North America.
-
And so does NVDA itself.  Check the punctuation settings.

While this is not "dirt common" for someone trying to describe that punctuation in an English class, or when discussing it, it is very, very common in computing circles worldwide, and has been for decades.  I first learned bang as an alternative name for exclamation point back in the very early 1980s, and not in the context of screen readers.  Brevity is important when an auditory stream is involved and, as such, hearing bang increases speed significantly.  "Bang,bang,bang," reads a heck of a lot faster than "exclamation point,exclamation point,exclamation point."

But regardless of what the "short version" of certain punctuation marks might be chosen, someone's not going to be familiar with them initially.  That's where asking comes in, along with changing if you really just can't stand it.

Another one, not discussed here and not nearly as common as either tick or bang is hook for question mark.  Same concept.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: problems with a punctuation mark

Louise Pfau
 

Using "bang" for the exclamation mark doesn't make sense for North American users either, since it's not called that in North America. Both "Espeak NG" and "Windows OneCore" call it "Bang", and I couldn't figure out what was meant.

Louise


locked Announcement Only: Asking whether a specific program is accessible with NVDA #adminnotice

 
Edited

Hello All,

Let me open this notice with my sincere thanks to members who have been consistently making an effort to think about whether the question they're about to ask, or whatever they're about to discuss, is better placed here on the NVDA Main Group or the Chat Subgroup.  This has really made the content in both venues more productive and (for the main group) focused.

That being said, I am going to repeat something that is in our Welcome Notice, Monthly Reminder Notice, and our main group description on Groups.io:

The central purpose of the NVDA Group is discussing how to use NVDA. This includes configuring NVDA's settings or familiarizing oneself with its modes and commands.  Discussions about which programs are accessible using NVDA, NVDA add-ons, NVDA tutorials and documentation, and configuring synthesizers or Braille displays for use with NVDA are also permitted. 

Note that the third sentence starts with a statement that, "Discussions about which programs are accessible using NVDA," are permitted.  I don't want to drive questions about whether something is accessible if you're using the NVDA screen reader off the main group.  This is vital information to know, and the answer can change over time.  It's a very good thing to be asking here.

It's only if questions are about, "How do I do thing X in program Y?," where the discussion is not really about NVDA, but about program Y.  Those sorts of deep dives (or even not so deep dives) about how to do something in program Y or how program Y works in general or the features it has, do belong in the Chat Subgroup.  They're about program Y and any NVDA commands are incidental to the answers.

But don't hesitate to ask about whether program Y is accessible using NVDA on the main group.  In fact, please do when you have that question.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: How to get NVDA speak a word

 

Luke,

        Even more simply put:  I don't want my replacement text subject to replacement again.   I know what the original input is, and I expect that and only that to be used, as the basis for what the dictionary processing is looking at.  Partially tweaked text should not be substuted as though it were original for the rest of the processing, and what has been examined in order to make the initial change should now be severed from what remains if additional processing (or even processing from the beginning) is to be done.

         Once something within an initial input string is changed, it is only what is subsequent to it in that initial intput string that should continue to be processed.

          That is what I believe virtually anyone would believe should happen, absent any knowledge of the peculiarities that have been shared here.  It's predictable, it's manageable, and it's way less likely to end up in wildly weird results, particularly if a huge dictionary is involved. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: How to get NVDA speak a word

 

Luke,

         How things are broken into units upon which scanning is performed is a pivotal part of this.

         I maintain, at the level of words within a unit, if that unit is a sentence, once a substitution has taken place to an "atom in that molecule" that there should be no additional processing for *that* *atom*.  You can continue with the remainder of atoms in the molecule.

         Think about how regexes themselves work.  I have even seen recursive ones, but those are very, very seldom used.  They don't keep re-replacing what has already been replaced.  That's my issue.  I don't want something I've identified, as an atom of the original examined molecule, to be replaced more than once.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

Sarah k Alawami
 

Would editing directly in cells be in excel? I'm guessing yes. I recall seeing that setting somewhere. Oh wouldn't it be nice if I could search the settings panel for "editing" and get a narrow list of options? Oh well, such is life. I'm not in excel, not even on my windows computer right now so I'll look when I next launch excel, probably the next time I generate a report.

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to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

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On 30 Mar 2021, at 2:58, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

Sara, Brian and all who follow this thread,

 

I am running:

Microsoft Excel 2016

Windows 10 Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.867)

NVDA Version: 2020.4

 

After trying various combinations of the following two settings under the Advanced tab in the excel Options,

When I pressed the “=” key to edit  a cell,

I found

First, that NVDA says "Formula Bar editing Equals" When:

"Allow editing directly in cells" is disabled

“Show formula bar” is enabled

 

Next, I found that NVDA stops saying "Formula Bar editing Equals"

and says "Pane" instead When:

"Allow editing directly in cells" is disabled

“Show formula bar” is disabled.

 

The good news is that

I found that NVDA stops saying "Formula Bar editing Equals" and, instead, says "Editing Equals" When:

"Allow editing directly in cells" is enabled

“Show formula bar” is either enabled or disabled

 

Conclusion:

So, to disable the annoying "Formula Bar editing Equals”, the setting for Allowing editing in cells" needs to be enabled and it does not matter whether "Show formula bar" is enabled or disabled.

 

I hope this helps.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 11:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

 

I actually have that issue as well. When I edit my reports I hear "entering formula bar" when I hit f2 to edit and it doesn't matter what i enter, a call sign? Text? Numbers? What ever I enter I do hear it, and sometimes I do not.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Mar 2021, at 9:49, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 12:37 PM, Pele West wrote:

Is there a setting to stop NVDA saying "Formula Bar" every time I type in a cell in Excel?

-
What are you typing?

If it is indeed a formula, this is NVDA's way of letting you know that Excel has caught that fact and the cell formula is being entered in the formula bar.

If it's just text, or a number, or something else then you shouldn't hear that announcement, as a formula has not been detected.

I know of no way to turn that off and, for myself, would not want to.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Braille Formatting

Jonathan Milam
 

Thanks, Quentin.  I didn’t, but you are correct in that the panning works well for long sentences.  However, I’m assuming there isn’t a way to set the display to bring the next sentence up to fill the rest of the display where the previous sentence ended?

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 9:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille Formatting

 

Did you get an answer to this?  The only thing I can think of is could it simply be the document?  EG this first line of my reply is quite long and although visually it likely wraps to a second line, it is one "line" and should pan correctly on a Braille display.

This line is short.

This too.

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 12:17 AM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:

Hi All,

 

While reading a document with my Brailliant BI 40, the text fills the entire display for the first several pans, but then I may see one or two words and a mostly blank line until I advance the display again.  I am seeing this in Google Docs, Word and even Notepad.  Which setting do I need to change within NVDA to ensure that each advance of the display fills the entire display with text?


Thanks,
Jonathan

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: How to get NVDA speak a word

 

I use eSpeak. But I tried MS HPI4 and still the word in question was
still silent.
The strange thing is that I tried the fix in the default dictionary,
but did not work whereas in punctuation/symbol pronunciation settings
it did.
So do not ask me why, because I have no answer, but my problem is over
and that's what matters.

On 3/30/21, Andre Fisher <andrefisher729@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi.

There are only two possibilities here. The synthesizer in use might be
blocking out the word dot, or it has been added to a default or voice
dictionary as an entry to be replaced by nothing.

So, which synthesizer is in use here?





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Library of Congress Certified
Literary Braille Proofreader
C: 512 502 4403
e-mail: nevzatadil@gmail.com
Facebook: m.facebook.com/LiteraryBrailleProofreader


Re: Is there a more complete Emoji dictionary anywhere for Espeak?

Steve Nutt
 

Thanks Luke, that is what I meant.

But I do notice that Emoji are sometimes not pronounced by NVDA with Espeak either, I don't think that dictionary is complete. I'll need to check some of them.

If we can get it to work with NVDA, then we can get it to work with ESpeak for Android, as it uses the same .dic format.

Thanks.

All the best
S
teve

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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: 30 March 2021 10:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is there a more complete Emoji dictionary anywhere for Espeak?

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021, Steve Nutt wrote:

I am using NVDA more and more now in my daily work, but I do find it
frustrating that Espeak doesn’t pronounce many Emojis correctly. For example, the Colon followed by Right Bracket, should be “Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes”. But it is oddly pronounced by Espeak as Twelve.
NVDA, provided you have the Unicode data turned on under speech settings, should be able to handle most or all common Emojis just fine.
But, I think you asked for Emojis, when you wanted Emoticons.

While you might find a list somewhere that equates the Emoticon colon right bracket, :], with the Emoji Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes, there's a good chance that most people will not know of that correlation these days.
Just use the real Emoji. I won't say that Emoticons are dieing, but I rarely see them any more beyond :) or :(.

Now, that said, since you are talking about emoticons, I have to say that neither Espeak nor OneCore handle Emoticons natively it appears.

Narrator handles a few, but it also simplifies them quite a bit to the basic smiley or frowney face description, and seems to ignore most of those I tried.
For example, both :) and :] are called "Smiley face" with Narrator, no matter what lists online claim :] should mean.

As to your terminology, please see:

Emoticon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
Emoji: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji

Luke


accenting letters

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

What do I need to do to accent a letter. I tried what google suggested, pressing ctrl+(apostrophe) then quickly releasing and pressing the letter. this doesn't seem to work.
 
*********
family Times weekly Movie times
 

go to Doc's Stream
http://stream.wrighthere.net:8000/stream.mp3
Ask Miss A to play family times on tuneIn
You can also find family times on OoTunes.
 
 

walking in VictoryI welcome all that are interested in joining our devotionals on Monday thru saturdays at 8am EST. join the devotion channel.
Also, there is a weekly bible study at 8pm EST in the Walking with Jesus channel.
 

Add the following information in your TeamTalk
host address: wiv.wrighthere.net
TCP/UDP ports: 10333
 
entry name: walking in Victory
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Re: Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Sara, Brian and all who follow this thread,

 

I am running:

Microsoft Excel 2016

Windows 10 Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.867)

NVDA Version: 2020.4

 

After trying various combinations of the following two settings under the Advanced tab in the excel Options,

When I pressed the “=” key to edit  a cell,

I found

First, that NVDA says "Formula Bar editing Equals" When:

"Allow editing directly in cells" is disabled

“Show formula bar” is enabled

 

Next, I found that NVDA stops saying "Formula Bar editing Equals"

and says "Pane" instead When:

"Allow editing directly in cells" is disabled

“Show formula bar” is disabled.

 

The good news is that

I found that NVDA stops saying "Formula Bar editing Equals" and, instead, says "Editing Equals" When:

"Allow editing directly in cells" is enabled

“Show formula bar” is either enabled or disabled

 

Conclusion:

So, to disable the annoying "Formula Bar editing Equals”, the setting for Allowing editing in cells" needs to be enabled and it does not matter whether "Show formula bar" is enabled or disabled.

 

I hope this helps.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 11:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Excel: Stop Saying "Formula Bar"

 

I actually have that issue as well. When I edit my reports I hear "entering formula bar" when I hit f2 to edit and it doesn't matter what i enter, a call sign? Text? Numbers? What ever I enter I do hear it, and sometimes I do not.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Mar 2021, at 9:49, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 12:37 PM, Pele West wrote:

Is there a setting to stop NVDA saying "Formula Bar" every time I type in a cell in Excel?

-
What are you typing?

If it is indeed a formula, this is NVDA's way of letting you know that Excel has caught that fact and the cell formula is being entered in the formula bar.

If it's just text, or a number, or something else then you shouldn't hear that announcement, as a formula has not been detected.

I know of no way to turn that off and, for myself, would not want to.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Is there a more complete Emoji dictionary anywhere for Espeak?

Luke Davis
 

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021, Steve Nutt wrote:

I am using NVDA more and more now in my daily work, but I do find it frustrating that Espeak doesn’t pronounce many Emojis correctly.  For example, the
Colon followed by Right Bracket, should be “Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes”. But it is oddly pronounced by Espeak as Twelve.
NVDA, provided you have the Unicode data turned on under speech settings, should be able to handle most or all common Emojis just fine.
But, I think you asked for Emojis, when you wanted Emoticons.

While you might find a list somewhere that equates the Emoticon colon right bracket, :], with the Emoji Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes, there's a good chance that most people will not know of that correlation these days.
Just use the real Emoji. I won't say that Emoticons are dieing, but I rarely see them any more beyond :) or :(.

Now, that said, since you are talking about emoticons, I have to say that neither Espeak nor OneCore handle Emoticons natively it appears.

Narrator handles a few, but it also simplifies them quite a bit to the basic smiley or frowney face description, and seems to ignore most of those I tried.
For example, both :) and :] are called "Smiley face" with Narrator, no matter what lists online claim :] should mean.

As to your terminology, please see:

Emoticon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
Emoji: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji

Luke


Re: How to get NVDA speak a word

Luke Davis
 

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021, Brian Vogel wrote:

----- Hence the reason I object to the dictionary processing not dropping out upon first match.  That result is insane, and it's something that no rational
person would ever predict, and were something similar happening by accident rather than intent, be able to untangle.
While I agree that the result is not intuitive, I think it is necessary.
The only alternative I can see to this "match then continue with further matches" method, is to "match then start over and look for further matches".
That has infinite loop potentials I don't want to consider.

This is supposition on my part, but I believe the reason it continues searching the dictionary, is because there is literally no other way it can be done.
It doesn't process by word, but by speech item. And that's a good thing.

Consider the following.

Dictionary entry 1:
- in: house
- replacement: horse

Dictionary entry 2:
- in: brown
- replacement: red

Input text: I observe that the house is brown

In your preferred model, I think, it would find house, convert it to horse, and that would be the end of it--stop processing.

Output text: I observe that the horse is brown

The difficulty comes when you consider that there may be further processing that needs to be done to that speech item (let's think of it as a line).

You still want "brown" to become "red", but if we stopped processing, that could never happen.

So, the dictionary's patterns that remain are applied to the speech item (line) progressively, and we finally end up with:

Output text: I observe that the horse is red

But wait, you might say, the house/horse and brown/red are different word matches, why can't it just match by word instead of by the whole speech item?

To further demonstrate the reason why it has to be this way, consider dictionary entry 3.

Dictionary entry 3:
- in (regex): the ([a-z]+) is ([a-z]+)
- Replacement (regex): the portion of the \1 that I can see is \2
- Comment: The Fair witness rule

Okay, I haven't tested that regex (or any of these), but the idea is that at some point, the line, whether handled by a prior entry or not, will need to pass through that regex rule (rule 3).
If processing stopped on first match, the "Fair Witness rule" would never be encountered.

It's because the dictionary entries are each matched, individually, against the ENTIRE input text element (line).
If it stops for one, it has to stop for the entire line. (N.B. not always an actual line, might be a fragment or dialog title or whatever.)

In order for regular expressions, or even arbitrary non-regex character matches, to be possible, a text chunk needs to be tested against ALL the entries, not just the one that matches first.

If I might beat a dead house:

Dictionary rule 4.
- in: observe
- replacement: witness

If the dictionary stopped processing on any of the earlier rules, the word "observe" would never be matched, even though it wasn't referenced in any of the earlier patterns.
That, I suggest, would very much be contrary to user expectations.

If you need another example, not using regular expressions, of why it must be like this, I give you:

Dictionary entry 5:
- in: testing,
- replacement: breaking,

Dictionary entry 6:
- in: , emergency
- replacement: , fake

In order for the input text:

I am testing, emergency broadcasting

To become:

I am breaking, fake broadcasting

Both tests need to see the whole line. If either one of them got only the word "testing" or "emergency", they would fail. That's what I mean by arbitrary text strings.

The entire chunk needs to be presented to each entry.
I'm sure the intent is not specifically so you can convert a word, then convert the result, and so on, and so on, until you've created a Rube Goldbergian nightmare of a dictionary. But in order for the things we love about the dictionaries to work as they do, fall through to future rules has no choice but to be the way it works.

Now, I await someone who has actually read the dictionary code to come along and tell me why I am completely wrong; but until they do, I will assume the above to be accurate.

Luke


Is there a more complete Emoji dictionary anywhere for Espeak?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi all,

 

I am using NVDA more and more now in my daily work, but I do find it frustrating that Espeak doesn’t pronounce many Emojis correctly.  For example, the Colon followed by Right Bracket, should be “Smiling Face with Smiling Eyes”. But it is oddly pronounced by Espeak as Twelve.

 

Also the Android version of Espeak NG is pretty crap at emojis as well, so I am after trying to fix both of these, but before I do, is there any more complete Emoji .dic files anywhere?

 

Thanks.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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