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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Andy
When I worked for the VA they had a sweetheart contract with VFO. You could have any AT you wanted as long as it came from VFO.
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Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com> To: "Nvda List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8 years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting better on a daily basis. On Jul 18, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Well nvda is not jaws, the only reason jaws is better than nvda is its older than us and thats just about it.
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But I think we will get there. We have a scripting language which is a standard language that people use, we use standard libraries and formats, there is no custom company proprietry code anywhere. Saying that, nvda was built for the cloud and web systems a lot of the newer apps handle well with it. Universal we are not there just yet but we are damn close now to that. Jaws is older, we don't have what jaws has right now so jaws is still better than nvda but we will catch up, and quickly.
On 7/19/2018 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:
That is not true. There are many cases where JAWS is superior for business uses and where the user can define things that may mean the difference between immediate productivity or waiting for someone to develop an NVDA script.
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Gene
That is not true. There are many cases where
JAWS is superior for business uses and where the user can define things that may
mean the difference between immediate productivity or waiting for someone to
develop an NVDA script.
You can't create frames in NVDA. That is
essential for a product that would be represented as on a par with JAWS for
business and academic and other specialized uses.
You can't redefine structures such as something
that presents itself as a list and you want it represented as something else to
get proper functionality.
You don't have the control over how much is spoken
automatically as you do with JAWS. That is, there is no screen echo setting as
there is in JAWS. At times, such a setting is very valuable.
I helped a woman who was using a VPN for medical
transcribing from home. I defined frames that read specific things, such
as only the relevant lines of screens and only when needed such as announcing
very specific text on the log in screens. I don't remember if I had the
frames do anything else such as move the cursor to the proper
fields.
This kind of bashing is inaccurate and is
ideological. Many of the features people use daily and love in NVDA were
either developed in JAWS or refined there. Don't disparage the sholders of
those who developed screen-readers and made invaluable contribution to their
general design that NVDA stands on.
None of which is to say that NVDA isn't a powerful
screen-reader. It is. But there are certain uses where JAWS is still
superior and that superiority may mean the difference between employment or not
in some settings.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:03 AM
To: Nvda List
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about
NVDA > On Jul 18, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote: > > I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about NVDA Though not actually trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned! > Brian > > bglists@... > Sent via blueyonder. > Please address personal E-mail to:- > briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' > in the display name field. > > >
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Lino Morales
Hi. Just herd part of the audio you posted and thank you BTW. Of course Eric Damery is going to tow the VFO line. I don’t see Narrator disrupting what NV Access has done so well since 2006. I’m a very happy NVDA user. I’ve been using it since 2011 full time. It has gotten better and better in the past 3 years since MS brought WIN 10 into the picture. I think NVDA will be around for years to come and VFO Group will still push for the stupid screwed up pricing model which is totally uncalled for for those of us who live with fixed incomes here in the US and the poor who are blind worldwide. Viva la NVDA as I always say.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Chaffin <chaffin102468@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:20:37 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA Joseph,
You can find the podcast episode on this page:
Hope this helps,
Chris
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Re: Lost the pound sign
Gene
It may be a change in Word, it may not. It
may be a change in the keyboard language input in Windows. Whatever the
case, the change almost certainly resulted in accidentally pressing a short cut
command and the question is, what shortcut command changes the language language
in Windows and what command changes the language Word is using.
It can be easily determined if the change is in the
keyboard input for Windows setting or the Word language. Open
Notepad. Press shift 3. What do you hear? If you hear what you
expect to hear, the change is in Word. If you still hear the wrong thing,
the change is in Windows.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign have system restore on and be able to go back to a couple of days ago, or is it off in 10 by default. Even then, I'm not sure it has any effect on the installed keyboard language. i have had issues in the past with word deciding to use American english templates for documents for no good reason which really fouls up the spell checker big time! Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign > It sounds like your computer has switched from thinking it has a UK > keyboard > layout (which has a pound sign on shift-3) to a US layout (which has a > hash > symbol on shift-3, and is often read as "number"). > > To confirm this, what do you get by pressing shift-2? > > A UK layout will give you double quote marks; a US layout will give you an > "at" sign. > > > Antony. > > On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 16:18:29, Sakina wrote: > >> Dear Gene and friends, >> Thank you for your help regarding adding new email address in my people >> app. I am sorry for I am not too clever and am still trying to figure it >> out. Sadly, I do not have many addresses and therefore would be happy >> doing it manually. For now I am cutting and pasting the address in the to >> field. >> Now today please I have lost my pound sign in my word document. I always >> used to press shift key and press number 3 for the pound sign. Now when I >> press shift key and number 3 it keeps saying number. >> I do not know what I must have pressed accidently on the key board as I >> am one hundred % user of keyboard and do not know what to do. I will >> greatly appreciate any help. >> Always thanking you all >> Sakina > > -- > If you were ploughing a field, which would you rather use - two strong > oxen or > 1024 chickens? > > - Seymour Cray, pioneer of supercomputing > > Please reply to the > list; > please *don't* CC > me. > > >
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Re: Lost the pound sign
Gene
Don't try that combination unless you know what it
does. It may be a short cut command that changes a setting in Word you
won't know about until you print a document and it isn't formatted
correctly. Don't use alt anything combinations unless you know what they
do.
There are some combinations that are so standard
that you can assume that they do this or something similar. Alt f usually
opens the file menu. That is safe to try. But trying combinations
that are not standardized and you have no idea what they do, if anything, is a
bad idea. And it definitely won't do what you want since combinations like
that are commands, if they do anything.
It is possible you changed the language your
computer keyboard input is set to. There is a short cut for that
purpose. You may have pressed the short cut command without knowing
it. Someone will probably tell you the command if you don't know it.
You can try it and see what happens. I don't know it, I just know there is
one. I also believe that you will hear the language announced that you
have switched to and that you can keep pressing it until you get to the language
you want. I don't know this, but based on comments earlier in the thread,
it will probably say Brittish English or something similar when you get to the
one you want.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign Give alt-shift a try…
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Sakina
Friend, For 7 years I have been using the same keyboard. It I am sure is not US keyboard. Since last night, it always did the proper action. When I just want letter 3 it gave and still gives letter 3 And used to with shift key give me # pound sign But now when I need pound sign instead it says number. Sakina Letter 3 by itself.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Chris via
Groups.Io
That’s odd, mine says pound sign as it should I guess you are using US keyboard layout rather than the UK keyboard
From: Ian Blackburn
When the computer says the word number in that situation it means the pound sign
Dear Gene and friends, Thank you for your help regarding adding new email address in my people app. I am sorry for I am not too clever and am still trying to figure it out. Sadly, I do not have many addresses and therefore would be happy doing it manually. For now I am cutting and pasting the address in the to field. Now today please I have lost my pound sign in my word document. I always used to press shift key and press number 3 for the pound sign. Now when I press shift key and number 3 it keeps saying number. I do not know what I must have pressed accidently on the key board as I am one hundred % user of keyboard and do not know what to do. I will greatly appreciate any help. Always thanking you all Sakina
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Devin Prater
The only thing JAWS has going for it now is Braille support, and now with the Braille extender addon, even that is being challenged seriously.
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Devin Prater Assistive Technology Instructor certified by World Services for the Blind JAWS certified
On Jul 18, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Sky Mundell
Hi Eric. So how many years would the guy have? The guy has been there since 1993. I agree with you 100 percent.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:02 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA
I listened to the interview. I don't think the comments were too bad. I don't agree with him at all. There's no comparison between voiceover and narrator for example. It seems extreme to say that apple is merely "checking a box". I also don't agree with his assessment of apple updates vs jaws updates. Some things get fixed quickly. Others do not. That's development. Jaws is the same way. I don't agree that most people who have NVDA also have jaws. That may be all well and good for gene, but most recognize that a one screen reader approach, while not covering absolutely every eventuality known to man, provides huge benefits in learning curve, performance, and in the case of NVDA, cost. Even if some nvda users do also have a jaws on their machine, it is most likely a demonstration version. Anyhow, he's wrong, but we all know it, and he's entitled to his opinion and we all know that too. Eventually all the exclusivity agreements in the world won't save VFO no matter how many companies they gobble up. Let him do his thing. He's only got a few more years left tops. Best, Erik On July 18, 2018 1:21:36 PM "Chris Chaffin" <chaffin102468@...> wrote:
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Ron Canazzi
Well,I guess the bad influence of the toxic political environment that exists in Western Europe and the United States is spilling over into the product wars. It figures that a company that has become more and more monopolistic in the past few years and which is involved in buying up all its competitors would spread rumors about NVDA being some sort of virus or malware.
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All I can say to that is I haven't used JAWS regularly in about 6 years now and I'm doing fine with productivity and general usage.
On 7/18/2018 12:21 PM, mikolaj holysz wrote:
Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or merely exaggerating. --
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Re: possible eloquence solution
I guess I have only had a certain synth type for ages.
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I started with the keynote gold for most of my life, briefly went to eloquence, still use it on my phone and with jaws at university and school and orpheus, but as an admin of a large home and remote network, espeak may sound crappy in parts but its clear enough for me to use for email, and other things I am not reading a book. Now don't get me wrong but remember what I said about good synths vs crappy espeak and other crappy synths and system resources. Try to run a good synth on a core2 duo and you kinda find out the hard way even this i3 third gen I wouldn't run one of those high quality ones all the time. Now run your espak crappyness on a single core on xp with 128mb of ram and you realise that unless you have the cash or something going full power is not always best as well as responce delays. Yes I agree, high quality voices are good for reading, good for gaming, but not day to day tasks, where you need responce and no delays from your system. Then again the only synth I ever used was vocaliser, everything else is just to expensive to even bother with, including acapella infovox. Acapella nvda, or maybe even vocaliser/eloquence may be in my price range but thats it. One core may be my next best solution to all this, there was a period where Iwent through everything from cracked to legal and legal if you want to buy a lot at once ie all english voices for x synth can be expensive. Now if I had an actual job, spending 200-600 bucks every year on speech synths could probably be not a problem but I don't, and while I must admit I do spend a bit to much on digital music and some programs, I rarely spend anything over 50 bucks a month sometimes if I get crazy 100 but I shouldn't, I don't have the cash really and I am a sucker for bargains. Sadly inoetics never played ball with eurofly and with the death of inoetics personal, I wasted 84 dollars on a synth which I could have used. Dectalk though some of it is rendered crappy volume wize is the only other synth I could even order and thats the honest to god truth, I am not bullshitting anyone here. TTs costs a lot, clarity and stuff, no artifacts, if all we are bitching over is how stuff is pronounced, well, vocaliser and some others have this to. I don't get any artifacts and its all internal, and officiant and its why I still like and use espeak.
On 7/19/2018 6:57 AM, Rob Hudson wrote:
Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:Hmmm well for us/uk language it appears espeak ng has gotten betterMaybe what it says has gotten better, but the tonal quality and overall synth is still the same. I do not hear any difference in sound quality between ng and pre ng. It still sounds like a tin can.
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Ralf Kefferpuetz
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2018 19:49 To: Nvda List <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA For the original poster , do you have a link to this podcast? I’m just cuirous is all, if you do can you provide it here and the time stamp to go to to hear the interview? Blessings and happy Wednesday On Jul 18, 2018, at 10:34 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@ca.inter.net> wrote:
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
erik burggraaf <erik@...>
I listened to the interview. I don't think the comments were too bad. I don't agree with him at all. There's no comparison between voiceover and narrator for example. It seems extreme to say that apple is merely "checking a box". I also don't agree with his assessment of apple updates vs jaws updates. Some things get fixed quickly. Others do not. That's development. Jaws is the same way. I don't agree that most people who have NVDA also have jaws. That may be all well and good for gene, but most recognize that a one screen reader approach, while not covering absolutely every eventuality known to man, provides huge benefits in learning curve, performance, and in the case of NVDA, cost. Even if some nvda users do also have a jaws on their machine, it is most likely a demonstration version. Anyhow, he's wrong, but we all know it, and he's entitled to his opinion and we all know that too. Eventually all the exclusivity agreements in the world won't save VFO no matter how many companies they gobble up. Let him do his thing. He's only got a few more years left tops. Best, Erik
On July 18, 2018 1:21:36 PM "Chris Chaffin" <chaffin102468@...> wrote:
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Re: possible eloquence solution
Well
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For me to even attempt to go legal with this for the price I am going to have to pay for even vocaliser sapi, that system holds me back from buying. Same with eloquence, there is a perfectly alegal version I can use. The legal one has that system and that doesn't settle with me, which is a shame, its not worth the cash if I forget to deactivate and have to either buy more licences or something just to get it fixed, in fact its not worth buying any code factory software if its all like this.
On 7/19/2018 4:10 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I also disagree with that system. Has anyoen contacted themand voiced their experiences and if so what was the response. I think it might have ben something nlike”we don’t care.” not surprising. I tried to sign up for the beta for elocrash on android and they said that they have internal testing and don’t want or need beta testers at this time.On Jul 18, 2018, at 6:32 AM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@gmail.com> wrote:
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Re: possible eloquence solution
Rob Hudson
Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm well for us/uk language it appears espeak ng has gotten better Maybe what it says has gotten better, but the tonal quality and overall synth is still the same. I do not hear any difference in sound quality between ng and pre ng. It still sounds like a tin can.
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Re: possible eloquence solution
I agree.
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Windows servicing model doesn't handle old licences that well.
On 7/19/2018 1:32 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
Oh my that would be excellent! I would just love it, if eloquence and my copy of jaws were tied into my microsoft account or my windows account! then I could update windows without fear of losing anything! The cost of sapi5 eloquence is not really bad. because $70 for 10 languages comes out to around $7 per language. Not bad. It's the stupid licensing system that has to catch up to the 21st century. that is the major issue i do not like about how eloquence and other nuance products are registered. I did purchase sapi5 eloquence. i just disagree with their activation methods.
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Re: possible eloquence solution
Hmmm well for us/uk language it appears espeak ng has gotten better unless that is I have just gotten used to it, yes, they have screwed up a few things but nothing more has been screwed up.
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Espeak pre ng was better in some ways but oh well.
On 7/19/2018 12:51 AM, Elshara Silverheart wrote:
Espeak used to be good. but Espeak NG is trash to the extent that
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Yes, flexable is probably a better term. And yes I ave to agree. I used to be a jaws fan until 2010 and I have not looked back. I had to use jaws for one of my jobs in 2015 an di complained heavely, but it was jaws or nothing at all. Since I needed the work I used jaws. It sucked for 2 years.
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Gerardo Corripio
Definitely sad the approach of those guys. NVDA is definitely more how can I call it? I can't think of the word, right now, but more like apart from being free, flexible. Yes there are things it can't do yet, but hopefully someday it can, but for our needs?
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El 18/07/2018 a las 12:56 p.m., Sky Mundell escribió:
No they don't. Its like going back to the days of the institutions --
Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
I do actully agree. Is theer a way we can call him out on his bogus statements and prove him wong? I mean, let’s face it, jaws has to die, nvda is over all the best screen reader I’ve used, and free to.
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Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Hi, I see. Based on what Eric Damery is saying and the overall context (starting at around 16 minutes into the podcast), his statement is somewhat justified when we plug in latest happenings with Narrator. I say “somewhat justified” because there are truths to what he is trying to say (with some bias): with speed of development with Narrator these days, Microsoft and some advocates will say that Narrator is enough. But when we take this argument apart, you’ll see business side of things: clearly, for many of us using third-party screen readers for various reasons, Narrator isn’t enough, and third-party screen readers are still required to fill the gap or provide additional features. Also the claim that open-source community could suffer as a result of Windows 10’s development speed, this argument is not new. Given proprietary nature of Narrator’s code, this is a valid concern. However, I would like to echo sentiments expressed by some on this forum and other places where open-source community did shine in times like this, and from business side of things, the claim is a form of subtle advertisement. We now have numerous proofs to challenge that claim: Windows 10 App Essentials is one such example. I have no comment on claims that companies and agencies would not recommend NVDA because it is open-source at this time. My overall assessment and recommendation is that proofs and context matter. Thus, I advise being careful about making a news out of just one statement from a business executive, because as it stands, we might lose based on taking things out of context. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:21 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA
Joseph,
You can find the podcast episode on this page:
Hope this helps,
Chris
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