Re: academics and employment
Gene
I don't kno the wording, but I am familiar enough
with the ADA to know that it specifically doesn't mandate how accomodation shall
be done in most cases. If the employer provides satisfactory
accomodations, the law doesn't give the employee the right to micromanage
it.
No company would hire blind employees to do work
where the employee uses a computer if any employee could demand that whatever
screen-reader he wants must be used. You simply do not, and should not,
have the right to dictate such things regarding implementation of accomodations
to an employer. Who is going to pay to have any screen-reader an employee
demands, be evaluated for its fitness for the job and systems used by the
employer. Who is going to write the scripts for multiple screen-readers
and who is going to pay for them? An
Like it or not, employers may have security
concerns about a screen-reader. A wonderful way to ensure blind people
would be very unlikely to be hired would be to give the employee dictatorial
power of this kind.
Does a sighted employee get to mandate that an
employer provide a tool he particularly likes for a job? Should an
employee who doesn't like a certain kind of truck be able to demand that the
truck he wants be used? An employer can demand that an employee use the
tools provided. If an employee doesn't like Microsoft word, does he have
the right to demand that the employer use Open Office?
Just having a disability doesn't make every
preference a right.
Accomodation is a right, if it is adequate, specifically how it is done is not a right. If your position were adopted into law, the
unemployment rate among blind people could well increase
dramatically.
----- Original Message -----
Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate to us what screen reader we will use. If nvda is more effective for us than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law. You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use. Brian Sackrider On 8/23/2018 12:10 AM, Gene wrote:
|
||
|
||
Re: regular expression and speech dic
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 01:52 PM, JM Casey wrote:
I’m really interested in learning and mastering this [regular expressions] myself.Good luck with that!! And I say that both sincerely and with a huge dose of snark, because almost everyone who delves into regular expression syntax comes to believe, and very quickly, that mastery in any conventional sense of the word is unattainable! You can become incredibly proficient and know more than anyone else you know, and there's still more you don't know. I would love to know what perverse genius first thought up the concept of regular expressions, which come as close as any formal pattern matching syntax I've seen to being able to be "almost human" in the way alternatives in the original text can all be recognized, but those regular expressions are often nightmarish to look at and understand. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind. ~ Richard Dehmel
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Ervin, Glenn
That is what I was noticing about it too, but this guy just wants to read and reply, and it seems to be working for him, and he is an hour and a half away, and he has to mail his laptop to me, so when changes need to be made, it is not too often.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:44 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email My main gripe with the 10 mail client is that its really poor on features. If it has message sorting rules, I could not find them, and it does not appear to do usenet either, which i still use. It has its own way of dealing with email addresses, completely unlike most other email clients. It does not seem to have identities and 6 email accounts in a tree view does my head in. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans" <lasthans@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email Hi, Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the question about Windows 10 Email clients. I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live Mail started acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a message. I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue here. Hans Last Email; lasthans@gmail.com Skype: hanslast Twitter: hlast Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Ervin, Glenn
I do use Jaws primarily.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:38 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email Well maybe you should be a Jaws user then.. grin. However I seem to recall that there are programs to convert menus, but each time windows updates it needs to be reinstalled, and I am not sure if the office one still will work. Office 2019is about I notice. What is new there I wonder. I am still using office 2003 and 2 with nvda as far as word is concerned. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows
|
||
|
||
Re: academics and employment
brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate to us what screen reader we will use. If nvda is more effective for us than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law. You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use. Brian Sackrider
On 8/23/2018 12:10 AM, Gene wrote:
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
My main gripe with the 10 mail client is that its really poor on features. If it has message sorting rules, I could not find them, and it does not appear to do usenet either, which i still use.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It has its own way of dealing with email addresses, completely unlike most other email clients. It does not seem to have identities and 6 email accounts in a tree view does my head in. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans" <lasthans@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email Hi, Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the question about Windows 10 Email clients. I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live Mail started acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a message. I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue here. Hans Last Email; lasthans@gmail.com Skype: hanslast Twitter: hlast Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
I was under the impression that google had just made its email online full of rubbish and almost unusable. I think I'd use gmail if I only had gmail accounts, but I don't and attempting to use different web interfaces for different providers did my head in so I use pop3 mostly with Imap when I need to see the spam folder.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email I use gmail.com and the basic html view. Works here. I don’t use nor
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
Well maybe you should be a Jaws user then.. grin.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
However I seem to recall that there are programs to convert menus, but each time windows updates it needs to be reinstalled, and I am not sure if the office one still will work. Office 2019is about I notice. What is new there I wonder. I am still using office 2003 and 2 with nvda as far as word is concerned. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows 10, but when it updated, it quit working.
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
No there is a hacked version of Outlook express but every time 10 does a large update it removes it, so you need to back it all up before you update 10, and then reinstall and put the messages and wab files back again. At least in Windows 7 it works. It costs for a key though as it uses a bit of extra code to deal with the different mailto code and html display code in the later windows.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Quite why after spending time getting OE to actually work with access tech, they did not fix it themselves and offer it as an alternative eludes me, the same with live mail, though I never did like it as it had no identities option. That is something I really need to keep my charity and real life apart as much as possible! Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email I haven't been happy with Thunderbird on my windows 7 computer, it seemed too much, I just wanted something like Outlook Express, so when I set up a client's computer to use OE, and the windows 10 update removed it on its own, I set his computer to use the default windows mail program.
|
||
|
||
Add-on Updater (proof of concept) August 23rd build posted, selective add-on updates now in place
Hi all,
Add-on Updater (proof of concept) August 23rd build is now available. This build is notable in that it brings a preview of how you can tell NVDA to not update add-ons if add-on update dialog shows up. In order to support this, add-on updates list has gone significant changes.
To selectively allow add-on updates when add-on update dialog shows up:
This scenario is useful if you wish to avoid updating to a later version of an add-on that’s known to cause problems. The next build will feature ability to select some add-ons to receive updates from development channel.
Cheers, Joseph
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Ervin, Glenn
I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows 10, but when it updated, it quit working. I prefer 2000. I hate the ribbon stuff. Glenn
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email
As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook 2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled" licenses for Office 2016. Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind. ~ Richard Dehmel
|
||
|
||
Re: [SUSPECT URL!]Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email
Ervin, Glenn
I can’t remember now, but either Windows 10 removed that too, or it did not allow me to install it. Glenn
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:15 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [SUSPECT URL!]Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:38 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
Like any e-mail client I've ever worked with, this is nothing more than a "click"/activate on the column heading, typically, to set the column used to sort and to reverse the sort order on said column from ascending to descending or vice
versa. Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind. ~ Richard Dehmel
|
||
|
||
Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803
George McCoy <slr1bpz@...>
I have the same issues as you have, Tony. I went so far as to buy another computer and I got exactly the same behavior on that one as I did on two others. I get the behaviors you described on two Toshiba Satellites and an HP Elitebook. The Toshibas run windows 10 home 1803. The HP runs windows 10 professional 1803.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I am restarting nvda every 5 to 15 minutes and refreshing the screens with nvda f5 almost every time I alt tab to another task. It pains me to say this, but in many cases these days, Narrator works better than nvda. I often have to start narrator to find out where I am and what is giving nvda a belly ache this time. Regards, George
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Ballou Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 6:55 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803 Howdy Folks, Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal. When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents. It also doesn't speak when I arrow through the list. Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen. To get things to properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't work. Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior. I've got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803. Thanks in advance. Tony
|
||
|
||
Re: Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016
Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Brian and Quentin,
After my last message I received a phone call from a person who was able to dial into my computer using TeamViewer. This allows his PC to become a clone of my terminal. We talked through the use of the Fill colour dialog and so he was able to hear and follow what prompts I was getting whilst he could see the visual information.
Your advice, Brian, on arrowing right in the first dialog where “no colour” is displayed was very effective. For all that he could see, he could not advise me how to move from that initial list into the grid of colours. When he grasped what I was doing, he was able to explain that the grid of colours is beside the list of basic theme colours that we have to traverse initially. It was then clear that the simple way to use this dialog is to follow what you described this morning, selecting the colour from the grid or from the primary themes and then clicking OK.
After making my selection of a colour in the initial dialog, he confirmed that it was now displayed in the Sample window which, as you say, we cannot get to. I can see it in screen review but, anyway, as a graphic the screen reader couldn’t use it. He made a good point that I must raise with the NVDA team, that Microsoft might add an alt text container to the Sample, what do you think?
Anyway, that proved to me that I can take it for granted that once I have made a selection within the initial set of colours, that selection remains valid no matter what else I explore and remains available until I get to the OK button.
The above makes a flat colour that fills the whole cell. Sometimes, a client wants a two-tone fill and that needs the next step.
This calls on the other four tabs which are to do with stetting a pattern and changing the background into two colours. Once I enter these elements, I immediately upset my original selection which they are designed to replace.
Using this dialog involves a lot of acting in good faith, unfortunately, but it can be done, I am relieved to find.
My next issue is with the conditional formatting rule which failed to make the change. I must see if my new-found knowledge helps me to get the rule working!
Thanks, both of you, for responding and encouraging my effort.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Cearbhall, Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind. ~ Richard Dehmel
|
||
|
||
Re: regular expression and speech dic
JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
I’m really interested in learning and mastering this myself. It’s one of my many computer-related ongoing projects. *grins*
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
William, Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind. ~ Richard Dehmel
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Hans
Hi,
Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the
question about Windows 10 Email clients.
I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live
Mail started acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a
message. I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue
here.
Hans
Last Email; lasthans@... Skype: hanslast Twitter: hlast Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Jason White
Microsoft Outlook (the Windows version from Office 365, monthly channel) – it works very well with NVDA in my experience.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kwork
I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use in Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out of the box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps, etc. Thanks for any help!
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Hans,
Your message contained nothing but your signature. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind. ~ Richard Dehmel
|
||
|
||
Re: Windows 10 and email
Hans
Hans
Last Email; lasthans@... Skype: hanslast Twitter: hlast Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast
|
||
|
||
Re: Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 07:12 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Cearbhall, I do have experience with the "More Colors" dialog, and for screen reader users the "Standard" tab in the dialog that pops up should be avoided like the plague. Although I was able to navigate the color honeycomb (and that's what the setup for standard colors has looked like forever) you get absolutely nothing back from the screen reader about what color you're on. As I noted last night, if you know the actual RGB values for the background color you want it's probably easiest and fastest to use the "More Colors" button and the "Custom" tab on the dialog that comes up, going to the R and G and B edit boxes and entering the respective values. I have used Fill Effects before, but in Publisher, and it's the same here in Excel. It allows you to make the background a one-color, two-color, or preset gradients. In the case of Excel and for the cells on the spreadsheet I posted last night, I'm only getting the two color variant, the others being stippled out. You pick the two colors (and, by default, the first will be white and the second whatever color you chose earlier) and the gradient transitions from one to the other. There are a bunch of controls at the bottom specifying what orientation the gradient will take when filling the cell. Unless one had really a really large cell the use of a color gradient would not be particularly useful. I just looked at pattern color and pattern style. This allows you to overlay pattern effects (style) on the background color you've chosen either allowing Excel to pick the pattern color (Automatic) or you can pick a specific color like you did for the background itself. There are styles like x percent gray (which is a bit of a misnomer if you pick a custom color for the pattern color, but they have to pick a name) which places a series of what amount to micro polka dots on the background color you chose in the pattern color you chose, horizontal stripes, vertical stripes, cross hatching, etc. By the way, if you are going through these and pick "solid" as the pattern, it does nothing, because you can't overlay a solid color on another solid color, so what you get is whatever you originally chose as your background color. The pattern is only meaningful if you choose something other than solid which can be overlayed/combined with the base background color (which could be "no color" by the way) that is in effect. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind. ~ Richard Dehmel
|
||
|