Date   

Re: academics and employment

Gene
 

I don't kno the wording, but I am familiar enough with the ADA to know that it specifically doesn't mandate how accomodation shall be done in most cases.  If the employer provides satisfactory accomodations, the law doesn't give the employee the right to micromanage it. 
 
No company would hire blind employees to do work where the employee uses a computer if any employee could demand that whatever screen-reader he wants must be used.  You simply do not, and should not, have the right to dictate such things regarding implementation of accomodations to an employer.  Who is going to pay to have any screen-reader an employee demands, be evaluated for its fitness for the job and systems used by the employer.  Who is going to write the scripts for multiple screen-readers and who is going to pay for them?  An
 
Like it or not, employers may have security concerns about a screen-reader.  A wonderful way to ensure blind people would be very unlikely to be hired would be to give the employee dictatorial power of this kind. 
 
Does a sighted employee get to mandate that an employer provide a tool he particularly likes for a job?  Should an employee who doesn't like a certain kind of truck be able to demand that the truck he wants be used?  An employer can demand that an employee use the tools provided.  If an employee doesn't like Microsoft word, does he have the right to demand that the employer use Open Office? 
 
Just having a disability doesn't make every preference a right. 
Accomodation is a right, if it is adequate, specifically how it is done is not a right. 
 
If your position were adopted into law, the unemployment rate among blind people could well increase dramatically.
 

----- Original Message -----

From: brian
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate to us what screen reader we will use.  If nvda is more effective for us than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law.  You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/23/2018 12:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from having a disability confers a right.  The employer has the right under law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the accomodation is effective.  The law will never give the employee the right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround. 
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
> have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
> After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
> for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
> very well.
>
> Rosemarie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
> Shook
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment
>
> THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
> ask.
> Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
> different viewpoints on issues.
> I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
> THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
> Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
> just agree to disagree?"
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: regular expression and speech dic

 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 01:52 PM, JM Casey wrote:
I’m really interested in learning and mastering this [regular expressions] myself.
Good luck with that!!    And I say that both sincerely and with a huge dose of snark, because almost everyone who delves into regular expression syntax comes to believe, and very quickly, that mastery in any conventional sense of the word is unattainable!    You can become incredibly proficient and know more than anyone else you know, and there's still more you don't know.

I would love to know what perverse genius first thought up the concept of regular expressions, which come as close as any formal pattern matching syntax I've seen to being able to be "almost human" in the way alternatives in the original text can all be recognized, but those regular expressions are often nightmarish to look at and understand.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

That is what I was noticing about it too, but this guy just wants to read and reply, and it seems to be working for him, and he is an hour and a half away, and he has to mail his laptop to me, so when changes need to be made, it is not too often.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

My main gripe with the 10 mail client is that its really poor on features.
If it has message sorting rules, I could not find them, and it does not appear to do usenet either, which i still use.
It has its own way of dealing with email addresses, completely unlike most other email clients.
It does not seem to have identities and 6 email accounts in a tree view does my head in.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans" <lasthans@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


Hi,
Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the question about
Windows 10 Email clients.
I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live Mail started
acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a message.
I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue here.

Hans Last
Email; lasthans@gmail.com
Skype: hanslast
Twitter: hlast
Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast


Re: Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

I do use Jaws primarily.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

Well maybe you should be a Jaws user then.. grin.
However I seem to recall that there are programs to convert menus, but each time windows updates it needs to be reinstalled, and I am not sure if the office one still will work. Office 2019is about I notice. What is new there I wonder. I am still using office 2003 and 2 with nvda as far as word is concerned.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows
10, but when it updated, it quit working.
I prefer 2000.
I hate the ribbon stuff.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook
2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled"
licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for
Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and
if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to
extract the Office license for use on another. Well, this has resulted
in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of
computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to
Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I
want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was
purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine. I just
paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

~ Richard Dehmel









Re: academics and employment

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

    Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate to us what screen reader we will use.  If nvda is more effective for us than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law.  You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/23/2018 12:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from having a disability confers a right.  The employer has the right under law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the accomodation is effective.  The law will never give the employee the right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround. 
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
> have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
> After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
> for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
> very well.
>
> Rosemarie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
> Shook
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment
>
> THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
> ask.
> Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
> different viewpoints on issues.
> I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
> THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
> Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
> just agree to disagree?"
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

My main gripe with the 10 mail client is that its really poor on features. If it has message sorting rules, I could not find them, and it does not appear to do usenet either, which i still use.
It has its own way of dealing with email addresses, completely unlike most other email clients.
It does not seem to have identities and 6 email accounts in a tree view does my head in.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans" <lasthans@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


Hi,
Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the question about Windows 10 Email clients.
I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live Mail started acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a message. I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue here.

Hans Last
Email; lasthans@gmail.com
Skype: hanslast
Twitter: hlast
Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast


Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I was under the impression that google had just made its email online full of rubbish and almost unusable. I think I'd use gmail if I only had gmail accounts, but I don't and attempting to use different web interfaces for different providers did my head in so I use pop3 mostly with Imap when I need to see the spam folder.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I use gmail.com and the basic html view. Works here. I don’t use nor
like any email programs on windows.

Take care

On 23 Aug 2018, at 0:33, Kwork wrote:

I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use
in
Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out of
the
box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps, etc.
Thanks
for any help!





Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well maybe you should be a Jaws user then.. grin.
However I seem to recall that there are programs to convert menus, but each time windows updates it needs to be reinstalled, and I am not sure if the office one still will work. Office 2019is about I notice. What is new there I wonder. I am still using office 2003 and 2 with nvda as far as word is concerned.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows 10, but when it updated, it quit working.
I prefer 2000.
I hate the ribbon stuff.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook 2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled" licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to extract the Office license for use on another. Well, this has resulted in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine. I just paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

~ Richard Dehmel








Re: Windows 10 and email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No there is a hacked version of Outlook express but every time 10 does a large update it removes it, so you need to back it all up before you update 10, and then reinstall and put the messages and wab files back again. At least in Windows 7 it works. It costs for a key though as it uses a bit of extra code to deal with the different mailto code and html display code in the later windows.
Quite why after spending time getting OE to actually work with access tech, they did not fix it themselves and offer it as an alternative eludes me, the same with live mail, though I never did like it as it had no identities option.
That is something I really need to keep my charity and real life apart as much as possible!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email


I haven't been happy with Thunderbird on my windows 7 computer, it seemed too much, I just wanted something like Outlook Express, so when I set up a client's computer to use OE, and the windows 10 update removed it on its own, I set his computer to use the default windows mail program.
It is pretty good, but it seems much less configurable than OE.
For example, I could not find a way to change the order of messages to have the newest at the bottom.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

I use thunderbird 60.

If you want something thats fully accessible and need addons 52.9.1 is the last version of thunderbird that mozilla has before it switched over to the 60x and higher series.

One word of warning though, according to the main thunderbird website that version is never going to get updated again so its going to eventually probably expire probably.

If you don't need addons at all, then the quantom interface for thunderbird works well enough as long as you set messages to open in the same window and turn off tabbed brousing in settings as well as set the home page to inbox.

You may or may not need sighted help to turn off the lightning addon for calendar.

Last time I set it up it did itself.



On 8/23/2018 7:33 PM, Kwork wrote:
I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use
in Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out
of the box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps,
etc. Thanks for any help!








Add-on Updater (proof of concept) August 23rd build posted, selective add-on updates now in place

 

Hi all,

 

Add-on Updater (proof of concept) August 23rd build is now available. This build is notable in that it brings a preview of how you can tell NVDA to not update add-ons if add-on update dialog shows up. In order to support this, add-on updates list has gone significant changes.

 

To selectively allow add-on updates when add-on update dialog shows up:

 

  1. When one or more add-on updates are available, a list of checkboxes will be shown. By default, they are not checked.
  2. Check the add-on(s) you’d like to update.
  3. Select Update, and only the selected (checked) add-ons will be updated.

 

This scenario is useful if you wish to avoid updating to a later version of an add-on that’s known to cause problems. The next build will feature ability to select some add-ons to receive updates from development channel.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows 10, but when it updated, it quit working.

I prefer 2000.

I hate the ribbon stuff.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

 

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook 2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled" licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to extract the Office license for use on another.   Well, this has resulted in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine.  I just paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: [SUSPECT URL!]Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

Ervin, Glenn
 

I can’t remember now, but either Windows 10 removed that too, or it did not allow me to install it.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECT URL!]Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:38 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

For example, I could not find a way to change the order of messages to have the newest at the bottom.

Like any e-mail client I've ever worked with, this is nothing more than a "click"/activate on the column heading, typically, to set the column used to sort and to reverse the sort order on said column from ascending to descending or vice versa.

Many people still like Windows Live Mail 2012, which is the thing most like Outlook Express, but it's no longer officially supported but does work just fine for POP or IMAP access.  I archived the last Microsoft Essentials 2012 installer, which allows you to pick from among the "essentials" to get only the one or ones you want, about a week before it was pulled from Microsoft's download pages.  You can snag it from my Google Drive, Microsoft Essentials 2012, in ZIP format if you want it.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

George McCoy <slr1bpz@...>
 

I have the same issues as you have, Tony. I went so far as to buy another computer and I got exactly the same behavior on that one as I did on two others. I get the behaviors you described on two Toshiba Satellites and an HP Elitebook. The Toshibas run windows 10 home 1803. The HP runs windows 10 professional 1803.

I am restarting nvda every 5 to 15 minutes and refreshing the screens with nvda f5 almost every time I alt tab to another task.

It pains me to say this, but in many cases these days, Narrator works better than nvda. I often have to start narrator to find out where I am and what is giving nvda a belly ache this time.

Regards,
George

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Ballou
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 6:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] strange stuff happening with the latest version of NVDA and Windows 1803

Howdy Folks,


Not sure where to pinpoint this issue, but here's the deal.


When I try to read the list of files in my folders, NVDA simply will say
tree view and not tell me any of the folder contents. It also doesn't
speak when I arrow through the list.


Another thing that also happens is that windows will say task switching
when I try to press alt-tab to move around the screen. To get things to
properly function, I have to press the space bar to get it to tell me
what window I'm on. Another thing that happens is that I have to use the
f10 function key to navigate to the menus, because the alt key doesn't
work. Does anyone have any ideas about this strange behavior. I've
got the latest version of NVDA and windows 1803. Thanks in advance.


Tony


Re: Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Brian and Quentin,

 

After my last message I received a phone call from a person who was able to dial into my computer using TeamViewer. This allows his PC to become a clone of my terminal. We talked through the use of the Fill colour dialog and so he was able to hear and follow what prompts I was getting whilst he could see the visual information.

 

Your advice, Brian, on arrowing right in the first dialog where no colour is displayed was very effective. For all that he could see, he could not advise me how to move from that initial list into the grid of colours. When he grasped what I was doing, he was able to explain that the grid of colours is beside the list of basic theme colours that we have to traverse initially. It was then clear that the simple way to use this dialog is to follow what you described this morning, selecting the colour from the grid or from the primary themes and then clicking OK.

 

After making my selection of a colour in the initial dialog, he confirmed that it was now  

displayed in the Sample window which, as you say, we cannot get to. I can see it in screen review but, anyway, as a graphic the screen reader couldnt use it. He made a good point that I must raise with the NVDA team, that Microsoft might add an alt text container to the Sample, what do you think?

 

Anyway, that proved to me that I can take it for granted that once I have made a selection within the initial set of colours, that selection remains valid no matter what else I explore and remains available until I get to the OK button.

 

The above makes a flat colour that fills the whole cell. Sometimes, a client wants a two-tone fill and that needs the next step.

 

This calls on the other four tabs which are to do with stetting a pattern and changing the background into two colours. Once I enter these elements, I immediately upset my original selection  which they are designed to replace.

 

Using this dialog involves a lot of acting in good faith, unfortunately, but it can be done, I am relieved to find.

 

My next issue is with the conditional formatting rule which failed to make the change. I must see if my new-found knowledge helps me to get the rule working!

 

Thanks, both of you, for responding and encouraging my effort.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

 

Cearbhall,

              My Excel experience itself is relatively limited, and last night was my first foray into conditional formatting.

              This is one of those times where there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to figuring out exactly what's going on with the screen reader itself, which is behaving as it should, but with a dialog setup that is quite atypical and where what you hear isn't always exactly indicative of what's going on.  The fact that "No Color" is a button with a value of its own, and the first one, can lead to the utterly incorrect conclusion if one lands on it again that you've somehow undone a color you set earlier, but you haven't unless you press it.  The screen reader also never lands on the large graphic at the bottom of that dialog that is showing the color sample in a broad swath that you selected above, which does make sense since you can't interact with it, it's meant as an obvious visual cue for the sighted, but even they can't interact with it, it's just there.

I do all these sorts of checks "as needed" because I've learned over time that non-intuitive dialogs can be confusing enough when you can see them, but when all you can do is hear them, and you aren't quite certain of how they are traversed, it makes it even worse.   I was actually surprised at the whole need to right arrow through the "short list" of colors at the top before landing in the grid where all the directional arrows work.  This is not something I'd expect anyone, including myself, would know unless they'd already had experience with it.  It's quite peculiar.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: regular expression and speech dic

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

I’m really interested in learning and mastering this myself. It’s one of my many computer-related ongoing projects. *grins*

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: August 23, 2018 9:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] regular expression and speech dic

 

William,

           You are quite welcome.  There was a time, now a bit over 20 years past, when I became a "regular expression guru" of necessity and was using them for complex search matches on a routine basis.   I probably couldn't read and understand some of what I actually created back then, but for the "simpler stuff" I can still generally churn out a regular expression that matches what's desired and nothing else.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Windows 10 and email

Hans
 

Hi,
Appologies forthe blankmessage, but I was answering the question about Windows 10 Email clients.
I started using the windows 10 mail app, after Windows Live Mail started acting up, showing messages of Not Responding when trying to open a message.  I’m on a windows 7 computer at the moment so that’s not an issue here.
 
Hans Last
Email; lasthans@...
Skype: hanslast
Twitter: hlast
Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Windows 10 and email

Jason White
 

Microsoft Outlook (the Windows version from Office 365, monthly channel) – it works very well with NVDA in my experience.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kwork
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

 

I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use in Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out of the box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps, etc. Thanks for any help!


Re: Windows 10 and email

 

Hans,

           Your message contained nothing but your signature.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Re: Windows 10 and email

Hans
 

 
Hans Last
Email; lasthans@...
Skype: hanslast
Twitter: hlast
Instagram: http://instagram.com/hlast
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hlast

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 07:12 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

When I tab away from the first element that shows no colour, There are four other buttons:

Fill Effects...

More Colors...

Pattern Color Automatic

Pattern Solid Pattern control

Cearbhall,

            I do have experience with the "More Colors" dialog, and for screen reader users the "Standard" tab in the dialog that pops up should be avoided like the plague.  Although I was able to navigate the color honeycomb (and that's what the setup for standard colors has looked like forever) you get absolutely nothing back from the screen reader about what color you're on.  As I noted last night, if you know the actual RGB values for the background color you want it's probably easiest and fastest to use the "More Colors" button and the "Custom" tab on the dialog that comes up, going to the R and G and B edit boxes and entering the respective values.

I have used Fill Effects before, but in Publisher, and it's the same here in Excel.  It allows you to make the background a one-color, two-color, or preset gradients.  In the case of Excel and for the cells on the spreadsheet I posted last night, I'm only getting the two color variant, the others being stippled out.  You pick the two colors (and, by default, the first will be white and the second whatever color you chose earlier) and the gradient transitions from one to the other.  There are a bunch of controls at the bottom specifying what orientation the gradient will take when filling the cell.  Unless one had really a really large cell the use of a color gradient would not be particularly useful.

I just looked at pattern color and pattern style.   This allows you to overlay pattern effects (style) on the background color you've chosen either allowing Excel to pick the pattern color (Automatic) or you can pick a specific color like you did for the background itself.  There are styles like x percent gray (which is a bit of a misnomer if you pick a custom color for the pattern color, but they have to pick a name) which places a series of what amount to micro polka dots on the background color you chose in the pattern color you chose, horizontal stripes, vertical stripes, cross hatching, etc.   By the way, if you are going through these and pick "solid" as the pattern, it does nothing, because you can't overlay a solid color on another solid color, so what you get is whatever you originally chose as your background color.  The pattern is only meaningful if you choose something other than solid which can be overlayed/combined with the base background color (which could be "no color" by the way) that is in effect.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel