Gene this law does need to be changed we should have the right to use the screen reader that will be the most effective for us on a job we should not have to learn a new screen reader just they want to dictate to us what screen reader we will use.  If nvda is more effective for us than jaws then we should have the right to use it under the ada law.  You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. No imployer should ever have the right to tell what screen reader we will use.

Brian Sackrider

Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from having a disability confers a right.  The employer has the right under law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the accomodation is effective.  The law will never give the employee the right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround. 
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
> have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
> After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
> for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
> very well.
>
> Rosemarie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
> Shook
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment
>
> THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
> ask.
> Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
> different viewpoints on issues.
> I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
> THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
> Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
> just agree to disagree?"
>
>
>
>
>
>

I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows
10, but when it updated, it quit working.
I prefer 2000.
I hate the ribbon stuff.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook
2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled"
licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for
Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and
if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to
extract the Office license for use on another. Well, this has resulted
in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of
computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to
Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I
want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was
purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine. I just
paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

~ Richard Dehmel

Perhaps you should have the option to make a case for the screen-reader you want but not everything in life that flows from having a disability confers a right.  The employer has the right under law to accommodate disabled workers as he/she sees fit if the accomodation is effective.  The law will never give the employee the right to dictate to an employer how he runs his business. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:44 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment

    I do think that we should have the right to use the screen reader
of our choice on a job.  No imployer should have a right to tell us what
screen reader we will use.   We may have to use both jaws and nvda to be
as productive as we possible as we can be.  I do prefer nvda when I had
jaws 10 I did not care for it as much as I do nvda.  My friend prefers
jaws to nvda but he will use nvda when it does things that jaws doesn't
read.  It seems that if we ever say anything like this needs to be
improved we are being critical and that we don't appreciate the work
that is done for us.  Thats just not true at all we are not bashing in
anyway but in everything there is always room for improving but if we
dare to state this then we get bashed on lists.  There is nothing wrong
with using both jaws and nvda just like there is nothing wrong with
using more than one internet brouser.  We use what ever works when we
need it and that may change over time so it's good to be very flexable
and be willing to conciter all of your options.  A jaws user may
conciter using nvda and a nvda user might conciter using jaws when it
might be necessary to do so.  This does not mean that you are changing
your screen reader you are just using annother tool to get the job
doneand thats all it is.  some people seem to make it sound like the
oposite screen reader of theirs is almost usless because it is not the
one they use.  If either really was almost usless it might be arround. 
I know that of basic pc users just can't justify the high price of jaws
but that does not mean that they don't think that jaws ins is a bad
screen reader they just don't need all of the bells and whistles of
jaws.  The fact that we can't make payments on jaws is a big deal
breaker for many blind people and nvda is free.  They also feel after
nvda is free so if it does not read everything it's free anyway so I
will read what I can and I won't wory about what I can't read.

Brian Sackrider


On 8/18/2018 1:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Hi, Chris,
>
> Yes, it appears from what I read that Gene prefers Jaws over NVDA. We all
> have the right to our own opinions. We should be able to agree to disagree.
> After all, that's what life is all about--differing viewpoints. I used Jaws
> for years and both Jaws and NVDA are great programs. NVDA serves my needs
> very well.
>
> Rosemarie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
> Shook
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] academics and employment
>
> THis really has nothing to do with the current conversation, but I have to
> ask.
> Since when did human society degrade to such a point that people cannot have
> different viewpoints on issues.
> I happen to agree with Michael that I do like NVDA better than JAWS.
> THat is not to say JAWS is a bad product. I just prefer NVDA over JAWS.
> Jean, it appears that you prefer JAWS over NVDA. That's cool to. Can't we
> just agree to disagree?"
>
>
>
>
>
>

I use gmail.com and the basic html view. Works here. I don’t use nor
like any email programs on windows.

Take care

On 23 Aug 2018, at 0:33, Kwork wrote:

I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use
in
Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out of
the
box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps, etc.
Thanks
for any help!

I use Office 2000 at home on my 7 machine, and I had on my friend’s Windows 10, but when it updated, it quit working.
I prefer 2000.
I hate the ribbon stuff.
Glenn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook 2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled" licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to extract the Office license for use on another. Well, this has resulted in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine. I just paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

~ Richard Dehmel

I haven't been happy with Thunderbird on my windows 7 computer, it seemed too much, I just wanted something like Outlook Express, so when I set up a client's computer to use OE, and the windows 10 update removed it on its own, I set his computer to use the default windows mail program.
It is pretty good, but it seems much less configurable than OE.
For example, I could not find a way to change the order of messages to have the newest at the bottom.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 and email

I use thunderbird 60.

If you want something thats fully accessible and need addons 52.9.1 is the last version of thunderbird that mozilla has before it switched over to the 60x and higher series.

One word of warning though, according to the main thunderbird website that version is never going to get updated again so its going to eventually probably expire probably.

If you don't need addons at all, then the quantom interface for thunderbird works well enough as long as you set messages to open in the same window and turn off tabbed brousing in settings as well as set the home page to inbox.

You may or may not need sighted help to turn off the lightning addon for calendar.

Last time I set it up it did itself.



On 8/23/2018 7:33 PM, Kwork wrote:

I imagine I'll get more than one opinion here, but what do people use
in Windows 10 for email? Other questions would include, accessible out
of the box, and if not, what needs to happen, additional tweaks, apps,
etc. Thanks for any help!

As an aside to this conversation, for those who would like to use Outlook 2016, it's now far cheaper, and completely legal, to get "recycled" licenses for Office 2016.

There was some change to the laws in the EU that have made it illegal for Microsoft to tie the license for Office to a single machine literally, and if that single machine is being tossed out it is legal for its owner to extract the Office license for use on another.   Well, this has resulted in a cottage industry of computer geeks buying up mass quantities of computers being junked and extracting and reselling the licenses.

I have just upgraded 4 computers in my household from Office 2010 to Office 2016 (actually, I've got both running side by side, just in case I want to do something in 2010), and each Office 2016 Pro Plus license was purchased on eBay for under $10, and they all activated just fine.  I just paid attention to the seller's reputation when purchasing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:38 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

For example, I could not find a way to change the order of messages to have the newest at the bottom.

Like any e-mail client I've ever worked with, this is nothing more than a "click"/activate on the column heading, typically, to set the column used to sort and to reverse the sort order on said column from ascending to descending or vice versa.

Many people still like Windows Live Mail 2012, which is the thing most like Outlook Express, but it's no longer officially supported but does work just fine for POP or IMAP access.  I archived the last Microsoft Essentials 2012 installer, which allows you to pick from among the "essentials" to get only the one or ones you want, about a week before it was pulled from Microsoft's download pages.  You can snag it from my Google Drive, Microsoft Essentials 2012, in ZIP format if you want it.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

Cearbhall,

              My Excel experience itself is relatively limited, and last night was my first foray into conditional formatting.

              This is one of those times where there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to figuring out exactly what's going on with the screen reader itself, which is behaving as it should, but with a dialog setup that is quite atypical and where what you hear isn't always exactly indicative of what's going on.  The fact that "No Color" is a button with a value of its own, and the first one, can lead to the utterly incorrect conclusion if one lands on it again that you've somehow undone a color you set earlier, but you haven't unless you press it.  The screen reader also never lands on the large graphic at the bottom of that dialog that is showing the color sample in a broad swath that you selected above, which does make sense since you can't interact with it, it's meant as an obvious visual cue for the sighted, but even they can't interact with it, it's just there.

I do all these sorts of checks "as needed" because I've learned over time that non-intuitive dialogs can be confusing enough when you can see them, but when all you can do is hear them, and you aren't quite certain of how they are traversed, it makes it even worse.   I was actually surprised at the whole need to right arrow through the "short list" of colors at the top before landing in the grid where all the directional arrows work.  This is not something I'd expect anyone, including myself, would know unless they'd already had experience with it.  It's quite peculiar.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: August 23, 2018 9:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] regular expression and speech dic

William,

           You are quite welcome.  There was a time, now a bit over 20 years past, when I became a "regular expression guru" of necessity and was using them for complex search matches on a routine basis.   I probably couldn't read and understand some of what I actually created back then, but for the "simpler stuff" I can still generally churn out a regular expression that matches what's desired and nothing else.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kwork
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 and email