Date   

Re: Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I seem to have missed this thread, but I gather its once again our old friend Eloquence.
I thought that we had established ages ago that only legitimate legal ways to use it were allowed.
Of course there are grey areas in this argument, but looking at the products you can now get and how many other voices you can get as well seems to me to make it a no brainer.
The only issues that never seemed to get sorted are the status of IBM Via Voice which is still around, but sapi 4 and pretty poor, and what about users of nvda in countries like Iran where I believe many countries will not allow any company to export to at the moment.


I'm not going to say any more as more or less I agree that with is bad to appear to condone piracy.
If we are talking about the other place where add ons are held. Maybe somebody could make representations to the guy to remove the old add on for Eloquence, as apart from the piracy issue, it also is known to not be very good with the latest nvda releases and will cause issues for users who might not understand what is going on here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software


The problem with that position is that the current illegal copy wasn’t made legally in the first place. Sure, it uses Eloquence libraries, but Nuance isn’t selling Eloquence themselves. Yes, there is a legal copy, and sure maybe the use of the illegal version may hurt their sales, but those who use the illegal add-on aren’t pirating a legal add-on, they’re pirating the Eloquence DLL’s and libraries. Technical, yes, but it’s a distinction I feel must be taken into account. I’m not saying that it is right to use the add-on, even if Nuance doesn’t sell Eloquence to end-users, and barely makes anything with the licenses, which I think must be pretty strict owing to the DRM on PC and Android.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:03 PM, ely.r@comcast.net wrote:

Gene, ,
No, I fully understand the list position. The issue is theft.
However when it comes to software, it is easy to convince one’s self that it doesn’t really hurt anyone as they will never know. Sorry if this sounds pretentious , but I have been and friends have been on the opposite side of this issue, and it can make a real difference for a developer who puts in enormous time creating software and knowing that a percent of copies are simply Pirated.
Rick


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software

The question isn't whether NVDA has adequate selection of synthesizers nor whether it is free. The question is whether the list should be exposed to legal liability by the promotion of any kind of illegal software.

If someone promoted illegal software to perform OCR, the same restriction would apply or to an illegal word processing program.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: ely.r@comcast.net <mailto:ely.r@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 12:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software

Gene
Thanks for this post. I have been wondering over the last few days what the position of the list owner would be on supporting the illegal piracy of software. NVDA comes free to those who cannot afford the cost of a screen reader. NVDA has a more than adequate selection of synthesizers as part of its install. Our visual conditions, whatever they may be, do not include an exemption for theft.
Again thanks for your reminder,
Rick



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Admin. Important. On promoting illegal software

I'm sending this as an administrative message along with sending it in the thread where this problem is currently occurring. I have slightly expanded this message with another explanatory comment.

I've stated before, as much as two or three days ago, that promoting illegal software is not, I emphatically repeat not, allowed on list. This is not my policy. It is the policy of the list owner and it is standard policy on a lot of lists. Gratuitously mentioning and impliedly recommending illegal software is not allowed.

If someone wants to express a general opinion about when it is ethically acceptable to use illegal software, as I understand list policy, that is allowed. Promoting or discussing specific programs is not.

I support this list policy. It doesn't matter what my personal feelings are about when and if it is justifiable to use illegal software as an ethical question. As moderator, I am responsible for enforcing list policy. The policy is in place not because of the views of those who run the list on the the question. It is in place because promoting illegal software exposes the list to legal liability. If people continue to disregard my warnings on this subject, they will be moderated temporarily. I'm sorry to have to send this kind of stern message. I moderate with a lite toch whenever possible. But it's time for such discussions and implied endorsements to stop.

Gene, Moderator


Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

 

Hi,
We'll see. Right now, it is too early to talk about what's coming in Skype 14 (the next version of Skype for Windows 10 users), but suffice to say that I'm keeping a very close eye on changes.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Well I hope that the end of skype7 sees more access and ease of use put into skype now.




On 7/17/2018 8:30 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
If I remember correctly, the layout of Skype 8 for Desktop is essentially a web document. Note that for Windows 10 users, you'll be redirected to UWP version, although that, too, is changing (more to come later).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went into the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks like the app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the skype 8 version will when you hit alt ke

+ lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if it is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 5:28 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1








Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

 

Well I hope that the end of skype7 sees more access and ease of use put into skype now.

On 7/17/2018 8:30 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
If I remember correctly, the layout of Skype 8 for Desktop is essentially a web document. Note that for Windows 10 users, you'll be redirected to UWP version, although that, too, is changing (more to come later).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went into the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks like the app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the skype 8 version will when you hit alt ke

+ lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if it is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 5:28 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1







Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

 

I have not needed to use them but I have loaded them on a 4th gen and a 7th gen processer and they work fine enough.

On 7/17/2018 8:27 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Hi, Shaun were you able to test and try the Skype apps in Windows 10?
As far I noticed from the apps unlikely loads so slow not sure if this is normal or does you heard of anything to others the same scenario

But I played around awhile some basic keystroke shared by David Moore in the earlier post. I could not go further to extend my judgement in terms of interface, but seems doable and consider as alternative option in case September comes fully in place.

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 1:10 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well aparently new skype is supposed to be having the same interface so maybe I try it and see.




On 7/17/2018 3:06 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Alright then, Shaun I will wait further instructions more on how to shift to new line of Skype version from here but surely the rest of the folks here are vastly impacted by this killing of the classic interface if there will be a time to be out in the space soon for sure the pressure will be more intense as it was generally specially for the blind who uses themselves the classic for their job calls, Or rather look for alternative VOIP service that is accessible

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 8:07 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Every platform, however to be honest you will have to learn the new skype if you need it I for myself don't but if you do you will have to use the new one as best as you can.




On 7/17/2018 10:35 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Hi, can someone validate this statement are true for the sake of the welfare of others. For I know it's been almost years been using Skype for call and video conferencing to my folks. And how this will be going to be severely impacted some of us using of the Skype. The reason of this is because here in my area some of the folks and businesses uses Skype for their jobs, and useful to consider as well. Better to provide link that could shed details for this matter.Is this concern for the Windows 10 only or to other platform?

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 5:56 AM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
I'm on a family plan with TMobile. It's unlimited, with no overage
charges.  But iy ou use a certain amount of data in one month, they
throttle the connection, making it much slower.  I only use it during
the day when in the backyard or when on trips. Otherwise, I use our
home wifi, so it's not an issue.  I would never use a pay as you go
plan, because I use the Internet for many hours per day, and my Skype
conversations are a minimum of three hours each.

I don't pay for the home wifi, and other things, which are not mine,
are connected to it.  Plus, my parents know very little about
computers, so I'm not going to play with their modem.

On 16/07/2018, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Sean,

I like Chrome, so therefore, I like hangouts.  I'd rather have Chrome than
Edge any day.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: 16 July 2018 22:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

I am not exactly happy with leaving skype, since skype has been something I
have had to use on and off, however while there was a potential time that I
may have had to use skype, fact is there for business it never happened that
way.

Hangouts needs chrome, I would really like a stand alone client if I could
have that.

I have not decided but I may try to learn the new skype, however a lot of
family use whats app on a newer mobile device and there is also skype and
others and who knows.

I like my pc though.




On 7/17/2018 9:25 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
This is a serious question from someone who is aware of Skype, and dabbled
with it, but never adopted it for regular use:   Why is this such an
issue?

It doesn't just seem to me, but it's been confirmed here, that there are
many alternatives to Skype many of which are accessible. It will also be
interesting to see what UI interface changes occur, particularly with
regard to accessibility, with Skype 8.0.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

             ~ Richard Dehmel













.










Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

 

Hi,
If I remember correctly, the layout of Skype 8 for Desktop is essentially a web document. Note that for Windows 10 users, you'll be redirected to UWP version, although that, too, is changing (more to come later).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went into the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks like the app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the skype 8 version will when you hit alt ke

+ lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if it is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 5:28 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16333
7/microsoft-killing-skype-classic-september-1


Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


How much more different is skype 8 from the desk top app? I just went
into the desk top version and i think it has been upgraded and looks
like the app version on windows 10 Or am i getting it wrong? I think the
skype 8 version will when you hit alt ke

 + lettr F will do a drop down menu but i think that is in the app as well?

I am just going to check if it is skype 8 and see how much different if
it is as there is a tutorial for the app version.

Gene nz


Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Robert Mendoza
 

Hi, Shaun were you able to test and try the Skype apps in Windows 10?
As far I noticed from the apps unlikely loads so slow not sure if this is normal or does you heard of anything to others the same scenario

But I played around awhile some basic keystroke shared by David Moore in the earlier post. I could not go further to extend my judgement in terms of interface, but seems doable and consider as alternative option in case September comes fully in place.

Robert Mendoza

On 7/17/2018 1:10 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well aparently new skype is supposed to be having the same interface so maybe I try it and see.




On 7/17/2018 3:06 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Alright then, Shaun I will wait further instructions more on how to shift to new line of Skype version from here but surely the rest of the folks here are vastly impacted by this killing of the classic interface if there will be a time to be out in the space soon for sure the pressure will be more intense as it was generally specially for the blind who uses themselves the classic for their job calls, Or rather look for alternative VOIP service that is accessible

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 8:07 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Every platform, however to be honest you will have to learn the new skype if you need it I for myself don't but if you do you will have to use the new one as best as you can.




On 7/17/2018 10:35 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Hi, can someone validate this statement are true for the sake of the welfare of others. For I know it's been almost years been using Skype for call and video conferencing to my folks. And how this will be going to be severely impacted some of us using of the Skype. The reason of this is because here in my area some of the folks and businesses uses Skype for their jobs, and useful to consider as well. Better to provide link that could shed details for this matter.Is this concern for the Windows 10 only or to other platform?

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 5:56 AM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
I'm on a family plan with TMobile. It's unlimited, with no overage
charges.  But iy ou use a certain amount of data in one month, they
throttle the connection, making it much slower.  I only use it during
the day when in the backyard or when on trips.  Otherwise, I use our
home wifi, so it's not an issue.  I would never use a pay as you go
plan, because I use the Internet for many hours per day, and my Skype
conversations are a minimum of three hours each.

I don't pay for the home wifi, and other things, which are not mine,
are connected to it.  Plus, my parents know very little about
computers, so I'm not going to play with their modem.

On 16/07/2018, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Sean,

I like Chrome, so therefore, I like hangouts.  I'd rather have Chrome than
Edge any day.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: 16 July 2018 22:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

I am not exactly happy with leaving skype, since skype has been something I
have had to use on and off, however while there was a potential time that I
may have had to use skype, fact is there for business it never happened that
way.

Hangouts needs chrome, I would really like a stand alone client if I could
have that.

I have not decided but I may try to learn the new skype, however a lot of
family use whats app on a newer mobile device and there is also skype and
others and who knows.

I like my pc though.




On 7/17/2018 9:25 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
This is a serious question from someone who is aware of Skype, and dabbled
with it, but never adopted it for regular use:   Why is this such an
issue?

It doesn't just seem to me, but it's been confirmed here, that there are
many alternatives to Skype many of which are accessible. It will also be
interesting to see what UI interface changes occur, particularly with
regard to accessibility, with Skype 8.0.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

             ~ Richard Dehmel













.







Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Steve Nutt
 

Conversely, if you open NVDA and use Skype, then try to read conversations
before they are refreshed, then you don't get them all. So they both have
their plus points. NVDA is faster, but reads even if the screen hasn't
settled.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: 17 July 2018 06:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Got any tips then? As an example, if I open up Skype, and pick a
conversation, sometimes it thrashes around with it's messaging model or
whatever until it settles down. Then I have to tab to the actual
conversation and get down to the last messages or tab to the edit field or
whatever. I'm not saying it doesn't work or anything, but it just seems to
take a bit to do stuff.


On 7/16/2018 23:21, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Odd, yeah I can get around it very very quickly. It pretty  much is
like skype 8 on the mac, very easy to flip between stuff.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, John Isige <gwynn@tds.net
<mailto:gwynn@tds.net>> wrote:

Pretty sure Skype for Win. 10 doesn't have menus. I'm not talking
about Skype 8, but Skype for Win. 10. It mostly works, though it's
kind of slow, but I haven't gotten sending files to work from it yet,
though I did receive one the other day. If classic's going away,
that's what I'll be using and I think that's the one feature I
haven't gotten working yet.


On 7/16/2018 15:48, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I have done it through the menus, I haven't tried a hotkey for it.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of John
Isige
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September
1 -

Have you gotten sending files to work in Skype on Windows 10? If so,
how? I'm fairly sure the keystroke is supposed to be shift-ctrl-f to
send a file but I've never gotten it to work, it does something else
instead, can't recall what at the moment and I'm not on the machine
running it to check.





Re: NVDA vs. Narrator: NVDA still wins.

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

Try Narrator with Chrome. I find firefox is officially awful now.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: 17 July 2018 02:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA vs. Narrator: NVDA still wins.

So I listened to a very nice podcast about one of the new Narrator features on the Insiders build, the start guide. I fired up Narrator, just to see what it was like. Opened Firefox, and Narrator pretty much wouldn't read or navigate a site, Youtube as it happens. Popped NVDA back on, and it worked just fine.


Not to turn this into a Narrator thread, but does Narrator only work, or mostly work, with Microsoft apps? I periodically test Narrator because it's there so why not? Plus Windows is integrating it more, e.g. you can supposedly install 10 from scratch using Narrator, Narrator in safe mode, and so on. I figure that makes it worth getting familiar with if for no other reason than I'll know how to use it when it's the thing I'll need to use. But it's gonna be hard to become familiar with it if it doesn't work with chunks of the stuff I use. Is there a Narrator list or something, like this list basically? I tried looking around for something like "using Microsoft narrator with Firefox", but I just get stuff about using Narrator generally or occasional reviews of using older versions of Narrator.


I'm thankful Microsoft is making accessibility a bigger priority and giving us things like installation and safe mode, well I've never really tried either but you know, I'm glad they're there if something comes up.
But for me, Narrator's nowhere near NVDA. I know some people have implied that it is, and I'm not trying to make this a fight or anything.
So I'm sort of trying to find out, you know does all of this great functionality come from sticking solely to Microsoft's stuff? Because I don't get the hype. I can't imagine using it as my primary screen reader for any length of time. People say it's getting closer to things like NVDA. But for me, I just don't see it. Am I missing something? Because right now I think my dream scenario would be NVDA from power on, or as close as it could be managed.


Re: Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Steve Nutt
 

For its class yues, but it isn’t the best is my point.

 

Also, in Android, Google TTS is not a cloud solution, it reads offline, even in airplane mode and still gets pronunciations right.

 

So I maintain that it beats Eloquence hands down.  It’s clear, it doesn’t chop at speed and pronounces pretty much everything correctly.  If you can find a common word that Google TTS can’t pronounce, then post it, as I’m intrigued.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 July 2018 23:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

 

That's not surprising.  I just looked it up and it is a cloud-based system.  It's interesting and I'm going to play with the demo.  But in fairness to Eloquence, it's like comparing a calculator to a supercomputer.  Eloquence is remarkably good for its class.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

 

Actually, Eloquence is beaten now for best pronunciation, by a synth that is not on Windows.  Google TTS beats Eloquence hands down for pronunciation.  I can’t find anything in the dictionary that it pronounces wrong, but I can with Eloquence.  For example, Samhain, a Pagan festival is pronounced Sowan with a hard OW as in Cow, Eloquence completely mangles that and pronounces it Samhain as spelled.

 

Google One, Eloquence definitely Nil.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 July 2018 17:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

 

What you listen to makes a difference, headphones allow for faster listening with fewer words missed at the same fast speed.  But the most important thing is what synthesizer you use.  I don't know about all the newer synthesizers so I don't know if any are as good at fast speeds as Eloquence.  In general, they aren't.  Eloquence is, in my sampling of synthesizers, the easiest to understand at fast speeds, 350, 400 or more words per minute.  It pronounces more words correctly without correcting with a speech dictionary.  The voice sounds annoying when listening at a normal rate.  It sounds raspy.  This raspiness is significantly reduced when listening at a fast rate and I don't find it bothersome.  Perhaps at first, it might be and I might have found it so.  But I quickly got used to it.  At times, for pleasure reading of long sections of text, a book, a very long article, I use a different voice such as the Dectalk synthesizer. 

 

But how anyone can stand most of the newer synthesizers is beyond my comprehension.  They slur words when joining them, leave off certain sounds when joining words, pause at unnatural times, use unnatural inflections, and I don't recall if I've left anything out.  these newer synthesizers work by sampling a specific person saying thousands or more words.  Then the synthesizer joins these actually spoken words together into speech.  They can produce words out of phonemes of the sampled voice as well but much of their speech is playing prerecorded words in the right order.  Think of how you would speak if you had prerecorded words in your brain and you spoke by a system combining prerecorded words.  Inflections would be wrong, words wouldn't be joined properly, in short, you would sound like these newer kind of synthesizers. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 10:23 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

 

I have found that what I am listening to makes a difference too.
If it is too fast, and there is a great deal of specifics to analyze, the information may need to be read at a slower speed.  If it is more conversational like, then a higher speed works because we can mentally predict the flow of the writing.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 2:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Unfortunately I think it depends on the person. I know people who regularly read so fast I simply cannot understand it. I also find that it gives me a headache if I set it too fast.
 I imagine it depends on the person, what their first language is and if they are listening in it and also the actual voice and synth in use.
 I never get anywhere near 95, but then I have no pressing need to most times.

I do find the more artifical voices better at spead than the so called human sounding ones probably due to the  whay certain sylables aare handled.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sociohack AC" <acsociopath@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 10:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers


Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular
basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial
if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I
would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at
higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in
NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move
forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It
is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you
guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a
different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there
a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers
on/

Regards









Re: NVDA vs. Narrator: NVDA still wins.

Akshaya Choudhary
 

As far as overall functionality goes, narrator is nowhere near NVDA. NVDA is far superior when it comes to navigating third party applications and complex websites on the internet. Plus, while using productivity applications like word and excel, NVDA is much superior. In fact, I would claim that NVDA is  at leas on par with JAWS, if not better. I have Both JAWS and NVDA on my system, and of course narrator, but I rarely use anything other than NVDA. And, due to its add on support and open source nature, it will get better and better. I can say things like cloud support and high quality voice performance at high speeds are not far ahead. 
regards
Sociohack


Re: Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Akshaya Choudhary
 

You get used to it. Words don't run into each other, you can recognize them as you do at slower speeds. Default speeds are too slow and inefficient for navigating around. You can easily go beyond default speeds, how high, that is a question. And, perhaps depends from person to person.
By flutter I mean, a kind of shiver in the voice or the voice getting more robotic than usual. In E-speak it occurs at 100% and at alll boost mode rates. It is still comprehensible, just annoying.
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: NVDA vs. Narrator: NVDA still wins.

 

what is stream labs and obs?



On 7/16/2018 9:22 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I have used narrator wiht firefox, chrome and edge. All work ok, some better thanothrs. I also use narrator with stream labs and obs.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 6:44 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

try chrome

from what I understand it is doable with narator or at least most of it is.




On 7/16/2018 6:21 PM, John Isige wrote:
So I listened to a very nice podcast about one of the new Narrator features on the Insiders build, the start guide. I fired up Narrator, just to see what it was like. Opened Firefox, and Narrator pretty much wouldn't read or navigate a site, Youtube as it happens. Popped NVDA back on, and it worked just fine.


Not to turn this into a Narrator thread, but does Narrator only work, or mostly work, with Microsoft apps? I periodically test Narrator because it's there so why not? Plus Windows is integrating it more, e.g. you can supposedly install 10 from scratch using Narrator, Narrator in safe mode, and so on. I figure that makes it worth getting familiar with if for no other reason than I'll know how to use it when it's the thing I'll need to use. But it's gonna be hard to become familiar with it if it doesn't work with chunks of the stuff I use. Is there a Narrator list or something, like this list basically? I tried looking around for something like "using Microsoft narrator with Firefox", but I just get stuff about using Narrator generally or occasional reviews of using older versions of Narrator.


I'm thankful Microsoft is making accessibility a bigger priority and giving us things like installation and safe mode, well I've never really tried either but you know, I'm glad they're there if something comes up. But for me, Narrator's nowhere near NVDA. I know some people have implied that it is, and I'm not trying to make this a fight or anything. So I'm sort of trying to find out, you know does all of this great functionality come from sticking solely to Microsoft's stuff? Because I don't get the hype. I can't imagine using it as my primary screen reader for any length of time. People say it's getting closer to things like NVDA. But for me, I just don't see it. Am I missing something? Because right now I think my dream scenario would be NVDA from power on, or as close as it could be managed.





-- 
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y




-- 
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y


Re: Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I don't try to listen at faster speeds than the default. How the hell can you notice a flutter when the speech is so fast the words run together?


On 17/07/2018 4:24 PM, Sociohack AC wrote:

I'm so used to E-speak that Eloquence is incoherent to me. But, the flutter you get in E-speak in the boost mode is hindering me to achieve faster speeds. So, I'm forcing myself to get used to Eloquence.

And yes, the so called natural sounding synthesizers are not as good at high speeds. But then, SAPI5 and one core voices aren't much behind if we compare them to these so called natural voices at moderate voices. I tried a demo of Acapella, didn't like it much. It's high quality voices do sound good, and more human like, but you can't use them at high speeds. The speech becomes incoherent. There is a clatter in the background.  When it comes to high speed functionality, there is nothing better than E[speak and Eloquence.
--
Regards,
Sociohack



Re: Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Akshaya Choudhary
 

I'm so used to E-speak that Eloquence is incoherent to me. But, the flutter you get in E-speak in the boost mode is hindering me to achieve faster speeds. So, I'm forcing myself to get used to Eloquence.

And yes, the so called natural sounding synthesizers are not as good at high speeds. But then, SAPI5 and one core voices aren't much behind if we compare them to these so called natural voices at moderate voices. I tried a demo of Acapella, didn't like it much. It's high quality voices do sound good, and more human like, but you can't use them at high speeds. The speech becomes incoherent. There is a clatter in the background.  When it comes to high speed functionality, there is nothing better than E[speak and Eloquence.
--
Regards,
Sociohack


Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Okay, so I updated to the latest Skype because I didn't want to lose
settings and whatnot.


It's ... not as bad as I feared. The latest version is 8.25 and the
interface is more understandable than I thought it was last year. Alt
doesn't do anything, which sucks, but the buttons and the dialogues that
open when you press them make more sense the more I delve into it. The
one issue I thought I'd have is being able to read my chat history, but
there's an option to export that as an HTML file and Google Chrome
doesn't flip a lid if the document is too big like Firefox sometimes
can. And my entire chat history for the last year and a half (since I
moved to this computer in other words) has been exported in that file. I
assume I can just keep doing that whenever I've had a super long
conversation.

On 17/07/2018 3:26 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
Hi


Do not forget the web version of skype 2 i here also use both skype desk
top at present and the app version.


There is a tutorial for desk top and app but not web yet it is written
and a audio one just not corrected yet.


Gene nz


On 7/17/2018 4:56 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
I just want to find something with a simple, accessible interface that
I can use for sending messages and making voice calls.

On 17/07/2018, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Odd, yeah I can get around it very very quickly. It pretty much is like
skype 8 on the mac, very easy to flip between stuff.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, John Isige <gwynn@tds.net> wrote:

Pretty sure Skype for Win. 10 doesn't have menus. I'm not talking about
Skype 8, but Skype for Win. 10. It mostly works, though it's kind of slow,
but I haven't gotten sending files to work from it yet, though I did
receive one the other day. If classic's going away, that's what I'll be
using and I think that's the one feature I haven't gotten working yet.


On 7/16/2018 15:48, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I have done it through the menus, I haven't tried a hotkey for it.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Have you gotten sending files to work in Skype on Windows 10? If so, how?
I'm fairly sure the keystroke is supposed to be shift-ctrl-f to send a
file but I've never gotten it to work, it does something else instead,
can't recall what at the moment and I'm not on the machine running it to
check.







Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


Do not forget the web version of skype 2 i here also use both skype desk
top at present and the app version.


There is a tutorial for desk top and app but not web yet it is written
and a audio one just not corrected yet.


Gene nz

On 7/17/2018 4:56 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
I just want to find something with a simple, accessible interface that
I can use for sending messages and making voice calls.

On 17/07/2018, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Odd, yeah I can get around it very very quickly. It pretty much is like
skype 8 on the mac, very easy to flip between stuff.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, John Isige <gwynn@tds.net> wrote:

Pretty sure Skype for Win. 10 doesn't have menus. I'm not talking about
Skype 8, but Skype for Win. 10. It mostly works, though it's kind of slow,
but I haven't gotten sending files to work from it yet, though I did
receive one the other day. If classic's going away, that's what I'll be
using and I think that's the one feature I haven't gotten working yet.


On 7/16/2018 15:48, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I have done it through the menus, I haven't tried a hotkey for it.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Have you gotten sending files to work in Skype on Windows 10? If so, how?
I'm fairly sure the keystroke is supposed to be shift-ctrl-f to send a
file but I've never gotten it to work, it does something else instead,
can't recall what at the moment and I'm not on the machine running it to
check.







Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

 

Well aparently new skype is supposed to be having the same interface so maybe I try it and see.

On 7/17/2018 3:06 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Alright then, Shaun I will wait further instructions more on how to shift to new line of Skype version from here but surely the rest of the folks here are vastly impacted by this killing of the classic interface if there will be a time to be out in the space soon for sure the pressure will be more intense as it was generally specially for the blind who uses themselves the classic for their job calls, Or rather look for alternative VOIP service that is accessible

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 8:07 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Every platform, however to be honest you will have to learn the new skype if you need it I for myself don't but if you do you will have to use the new one as best as you can.




On 7/17/2018 10:35 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Hi, can someone validate this statement are true for the sake of the welfare of others. For I know it's been almost years been using Skype for call and video conferencing to my folks. And how this will be going to be severely impacted some of us using of the Skype. The reason of this is because here in my area some of the folks and businesses uses Skype for their jobs, and useful to consider as well. Better to provide link that could shed details for this matter.Is this concern for the Windows 10 only or to other platform?

Robert Mendoza


On 7/17/2018 5:56 AM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote:
I'm on a family plan with TMobile. It's unlimited, with no overage
charges.  But iy ou use a certain amount of data in one month, they
throttle the connection, making it much slower.  I only use it during
the day when in the backyard or when on trips.  Otherwise, I use our
home wifi, so it's not an issue.  I would never use a pay as you go
plan, because I use the Internet for many hours per day, and my Skype
conversations are a minimum of three hours each.

I don't pay for the home wifi, and other things, which are not mine,
are connected to it.  Plus, my parents know very little about
computers, so I'm not going to play with their modem.

On 16/07/2018, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Sean,

I like Chrome, so therefore, I like hangouts.  I'd rather have Chrome than
Edge any day.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: 16 July 2018 22:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

I am not exactly happy with leaving skype, since skype has been something I
have had to use on and off, however while there was a potential time that I
may have had to use skype, fact is there for business it never happened that
way.

Hangouts needs chrome, I would really like a stand alone client if I could
have that.

I have not decided but I may try to learn the new skype, however a lot of
family use whats app on a newer mobile device and there is also skype and
others and who knows.

I like my pc though.




On 7/17/2018 9:25 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
This is a serious question from someone who is aware of Skype, and dabbled
with it, but never adopted it for regular use:   Why is this such an
issue?

It doesn't just seem to me, but it's been confirmed here, that there are
many alternatives to Skype many of which are accessible. It will also be
interesting to see what UI interface changes occur, particularly with
regard to accessibility, with Skype 8.0.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

     A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for
all humankind.

             ~ Richard Dehmel













.





Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

John Isige
 

Got any tips then? As an example, if I open up Skype, and pick a
conversation, sometimes it thrashes around with it's messaging model or
whatever until it settles down. Then I have to tab to the actual
conversation and get down to the last messages or tab to the edit field
or whatever. I'm not saying it doesn't work or anything, but it just
seems to take a bit to do stuff.

On 7/16/2018 23:21, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Odd, yeah I can get around it very very quickly. It pretty  much is
like skype 8 on the mac, very easy to flip between stuff.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, John Isige <gwynn@tds.net
<mailto:gwynn@tds.net>> wrote:

Pretty sure Skype for Win. 10 doesn't have menus. I'm not talking
about Skype 8, but Skype for Win. 10. It mostly works, though it's
kind of slow, but I haven't gotten sending files to work from it yet,
though I did receive one the other day. If classic's going away,
that's what I'll be using and I think that's the one feature I
haven't gotten working yet.


On 7/16/2018 15:48, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I have done it through the menus, I haven't tried a hotkey for it.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of John
Isige
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Have you gotten sending files to work in Skype on Windows 10? If so,
how? I'm fairly sure the keystroke is supposed to be shift-ctrl-f to
send a file but I've never gotten it to work, it does something else
instead, can't recall what at the moment and I'm not on the machine
running it to check.





Re: Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Eleni Vamvakari
 

I just want to find something with a simple, accessible interface that
I can use for sending messages and making voice calls.

On 17/07/2018, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Odd, yeah I can get around it very very quickly. It pretty much is like
skype 8 on the mac, very easy to flip between stuff.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, John Isige <gwynn@tds.net> wrote:

Pretty sure Skype for Win. 10 doesn't have menus. I'm not talking about
Skype 8, but Skype for Win. 10. It mostly works, though it's kind of slow,
but I haven't gotten sending files to work from it yet, though I did
receive one the other day. If classic's going away, that's what I'll be
using and I think that's the one feature I haven't gotten working yet.


On 7/16/2018 15:48, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I have done it through the menus, I haven't tried a hotkey for it.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is Killing Skype Classic on September 1 -

Have you gotten sending files to work in Skype on Windows 10? If so, how?
I'm fairly sure the keystroke is supposed to be shift-ctrl-f to send a
file but I've never gotten it to work, it does something else instead,
can't recall what at the moment and I'm not on the machine running it to
check.








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anyaudio.net: elvam2167

Skype: elvam2167