Date   

Re: accessible money

Laurie Mehta
 

What is unreasonable is making silly statements like:
Gene <gsasner@...>
wrote, in part:
Even if you win, the public resentment and ridicule will create
enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole cause of acceptance and integration back significantly.
Gene

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/9/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 8:07 PM
It doesn't insult
anyone.  Coins are not used
in the ways paper money are for a reason.  If blind
people demand the
elimination of bills, they won't be taken
seriously.  Accessibility doesn't
mean imposing unreasonable practices on the rest of
society.  and replacing
bills with coins is unreasonable. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----


From: Laurie
Mehta via Groups.Io

Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 9:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
money

Gene <gsasner@...>
wrote, in
part:
Even if you win, the public resentment and ridicule will
create
enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole
cause of acceptance
and integration back significantly.
Gene
---My response:
I think that
this sort of reasoning insults the intelligence of almost
everyone, and it does
not make sense either.
I am not worried about ill will being spread on
account of me wanting to be sure of what money I am
exchanging with a business.

Canadian money and Indian money are reasonably accessible,
for just two
examples I've used. There is no reason for US money to
lag in this
respect.
-LM

--------------------------------------------
On Sat,
6/9/18, Gene <gsasner@...>

wrote:

 Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 Date:
Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:40 PM
 
 
 But using that
argument,
 making money accessible
 when it may not be around
much longer can be argued to be
 spending a good deal
 of money
to correct a problem that may not exist so it
 shouldn't be done. 

 After all, it would be hard to justify making a
building
 wheelchair accessible
 if that building were likely
to be torn down in two years
 and it wasn't
 providing an
essential service.
  
 Paper money is so much
more
 convenient than coins,
 that that is why it was adopted
in the first place. 
 Accessibility is a
 worthy goal, but
if accessibility is done at the expense of
 what is generally a

 much better system of doing something for people in
general,
 it's a pyric
 victory.  Even if you win, the
public resentment and
 ridicule will create
 enormous ill will
toward the recipients and set the whole
 cause of acceptance

 and integration back
significantly.
  
 Gene
 
 ----- Original
Message
 -----
 
 
 From: Ron
 Canazzi

 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:02 AM
 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 
 Subject:
Re: [nvda] accessible
 money
 
 
 Well, we
wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more
 coins.  They could

 be differently shaped for ease of accessibility. 
As far
as
 the jingling,
 to be honest, less and less people use real
money any
 more.  So this may
 become a moot point
anyway.  For example, we are getting a
 group of

 Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo,
New York
 area
that will accept
 nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how
long
 there will actually be
 any so called legal tender any
more anyway.
 
 
 
 On 6/8/2018
11:03
 PM, Gene wrote:
 
 
   It
isn't
 reasonable to ask that switching to coins be
done. 

    
   I'll use American denominations in
examples since
 I don't know your
   denominations. 
Who is going to be willing to carry
 nothing but
  
coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin,
 I'm not
going to
   want to get four coins for dollars and two
quarters,
a
 dime and a nickel
   back.  If I pay for something
with a ten dollar coin and
 I'm owed eight
   dollars and
twenty cents, I am not going to want to
 receive a five dollar

   coin, three one dollar coins and two
dimes. 
People
 aren't going to walk
   around with lots of heavy
coins jingling in their pockets
 and wearing out the
  
material in their clothes. 
    
   and
think of all the different coins you would have
 to learn.  The

   penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five
dollar,
ten,
 twenty, fifty,
   assuming you never have a higher
denomination. 
    
   Gene
  

   ----- Original Message -----
 
  

   From: Ron
 Canazzi
  
  
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 
  
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
 money
  

 
   Hi Kerryn,
  
 
  
If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to
 switch to all
coinage
   rather than paper money, that would be the
ideal thing
to
 do.  Most blind
   people here in the United
States have no difficulty with
 coinage.  The
  
pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently
 rimmed and of

   different sizes and weights.  In the
United States,
we
 like our paper
   money.  There was great
resistance to any change for
 large denominations
   than
quarters.  However in a smaller country like
 Trinidad, you might

   have less resistance.  Good luck.
  

 
 
   On 6/8/2018 8:29
 PM, Kerryn
Gunness via Groups.Io
   wrote:
 
  

    
     hi

     we in trinidad would like to make
our
money
 accessible to our blind or
    
visually  impaired persons
     what guidelines we
should work with as to approach
 the powers that be,

     in our meeting on tuesday 12th
june, in having
this
 done, in terms of
     technology, tack
tile immages etc
     thanks
    
 
 --
 They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
 They
ask: "How Happy are You?"
 I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away
chimpanzee on a
 banana boat!"
 --
 They Ask Me If I'm
Happy; I say Yes.
 They ask: "How Happy are You?"
 I Say: "I'm
as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
 banana
boat!"


Re: ++OFFTOPIC++ How I change it?

 

Ok, thanks a lot :)
Em 10/06/2018 01:14, Gene escreveu:

I don't think you can.  Maybe if you use another e-mail provider.  I read about this six moths or more ago.  This is a way to deal with a rather new antispam measure that keeps some people from getting list msil.  It really doesn't matter from a practical point of view.  If you want someone to have your address, you can give it to them. 
 
Most people don't know how to send messages to individuals from a list message anyway.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 11:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] ++OFFTOPIC++ How I change it?

Hi all,
It should've a few days I noticed this thing on my e-mails.
I see, after my name, the word "via" and the list's name.
For example, sending an e-mail to you, I see "marcio via NVDA
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<". I would like to know how to show my original
e-mail instead of it, as I see on the others's messages here.

Well, that's all.

Thanks in advance,
Marcio




Re: accessible money

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Robert,


I do have a debit card that's in my name. I do use it to purchase groceries online and order books from National Braille Press but that's about all I do with it. Most of the time I prefer cash.


Rosemarie




On 6/9/2018 5:33 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

Hi, Rosemary, and others

I feel the same sentiments here in our country in Philippines has no braille embedded to its specially in paper bill. Though this has been raised and hoping they will come out soon for implementation. Sometimes having a smartphone could takes times to read the paper bill or you mentioned folding wasn't enough to organize it to your purse or wallet. Like to share this one time when I was in a store in shopping mall could takes time for me and could build filed up but lucky enough that there are some good personnel who facilitate us for paying the items. But more or less sighted is helpful but not allow to wait to give assistance all the time. It is really needs to be independent not allowing by giving chance of being burden to other. About the credit or debit card there are some banks offering but majority is not allowing blind or visual impaired to have it one not unless someone from your family acts as their main account holder. We are trying to communicate here our local agency to push this and trying our best to reach to some organization who is helping blind and visual impairment community.  I know this could be hurdles and we need to prove to them in order to get this for real. Plus the fact, the lacking and awareness of some technology here sometimes as show stopper and that is the reason why I got involved with different advocacy to enable  to find research and letting them to realize that this concerned is vital.

Robert Mendoza


On 6/10/2018 7:13 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,


I too wish we had accessible money. One time when the guy from Buy Right Pharmacy came to deliver a medication for me, I accidentally handed him a 5-dollar bill thinking it was a one-dollar bill. It's true that not everybody has a smart phone. I can't even afford one because they're so expensive.


Rosemarie




On 6/9/2018 4:04 PM, brian wrote:

    Lets not forget that not everyone has a smart phone and not everyone has a credit card or a debit card because they don't have a bank account.  They are just defying the judgment against them they are just lazy and they are hoping that the total cashless society will come quick enough so they don't have to make our money accessable.  The Usa is the only country that does not have accessable money how sad.  We have to depend on sighted people to tell us what our money is and trust them to tell us the truth.  This does not make me proud to be an american.  our goverment is telling us loud and clear that they don't care about our needs and we are American citizens what a shame.  I hope that those of you who live in countries and do have accessable curency are most greatful and thankful for the gift of financial independence.  We Americans would love to have this but who knows if we will ever have it.  Our paper money just all feels the same.  a hundred dollar bills feels like a one dallar bill.  I do wish that we had the kind of money that Canada has they have done it right so if they can do it then so can the Usa.  We have been provided with money readers by nls as a sulution but try to use this device at the check out counter and see what happens you will be holding up the line.  this is a very bad sulution to the problem of inaccessable curency.  It does not matter if you fold your bills in different ways or you have a billfold with 4 compartments as I have you first have to know what the bills are.  If you get in a hury you could miss fold the bill or put it in the wrong compartment I have done this.  We need to be able to identify our paper curency quickly and acuratly.

Brian Sackrider


On 6/8/2018 11:37 PM, Holger Fiallo wrote:
Do we need it? Now that we have apps that can tell us what is what?  Just asking.
 
From: Andy
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 
In 2008 the Federal courts ruled that the U. S. Treasury Dept. had to make currency accessible. They have diddled around for years, with study after study, and still no accessible money. They just don't want to do it, and are hoping that people will use credit and devit cards, etc.
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaffar Sidek
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi.  I am in a rather unique position because i get to experience both sides of money, accessible and inaccessible.  Here in Singapore, we have currency notes of different sizes and made of different materials.  $2, $5 and $10 are of different sizes and are made of plastic, $2 being the smallest and $10 being the biggest size of this sub group.  Then there

is the group of $50, $100, $500 and $1000 currency notes.  These are made of tough paper, again of different sizes.  It is easy to tell the diference between one denomination from the other once you get use to it.  On the other hand, I am married to a Filipina, and The Philippines Peso notes are all of the same size, no matter which currency, so i need guidance on that score when I am back in the philippines with wife and family.  Cheers!
On 6/9/2018 11:03 AM, Gene wrote:
It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 
 
I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes. 
 
and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi Kerryn,

 

If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.

 


On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
hi
we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons
what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
thanks
 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"






Re: accessible money

Gene
 

I don't know enough about the subject to discuss security in those terms.  But clearly, when the Internet of things allows countless devices to be used in denial of service attacks and when devices can be used to get information about the user's account and information on their computers, when a credit agency in The United States is hacked and millions of account holders' information is stolen, when malware like Wanna Cry can spread throughout the world, it is the height of irresponsibility to do things like mostly move to a no money economy. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

Well there is no way to mitigate security type things.

At least not in a reality type deal.

During one of my security classes at university the question was asked
of the professer did anyone make a fully secured os and a fully secured
network with the right software etc.

His responce was short and to the point.

Yes.

Was it secure.

Yes.

However, it was totally useless at the same time.

Since everything was potentially a virus, and everything was protected,
to do anything required so many prompts and quearies to the user that it
became unusable.

So to be honest to not be secure is a bad idea.

But to be to secure is a bad idea to.

For the average user we need to be as secure enough that we feel
comfortable.

Sadly with today's tech, we want simpler and simpler same goes for
accessibility.

Accessibility breaks security, simple systems break security.

Removing simple interfaces and accessibility makes everything more secure.

But the users wouldn't be happy.

For governments and larger corperations you tend to try to hide security
so while it is secure the user probably never sees a problem.

And it can go against you big time.

I was working on a server for my uncle's business.

All files were encripted and using something like cryptolocking software
was stored on a drive on a computer fully secured with a key and a
special board linked to its raid card.

It worked perfectly but last year it started to start slowly, and not
run well.

Suspecting the system was on its last legs, and since also the laptop
that was used to access some of its functions was also having issues
plans were made to do some cloud transfers as well as replace both systems.

Both systems were replaced.

Both systems were re cryptolocked.

Both systems were made ready for the transfer but the server didn't
start when I tried to do so.

No one knows what happened as such but the system was on fire when the
techs looked at it.

Our guess was the raid card or the special board blew due to age or
something else maybe something else.

No one knows how, however, the drive and all its data were basically
locked to us, the technition tried everything my uncle even took it for
special recovery and they couldn't get the drive to work.

Eventually the technition got to some contact in the government that
handled cyber crime and hacking.

He was able to gain access to the drive and transfer all the data off in
its completeness but it took 6 months to complete that process.

And even though all the data was there, all the folders, alld the
directories, and everything else that was organised was destroyed, the
data was in one folder and it was totally rubbish.

Eventually things got sorted out, I almost had this when 2 of my backup
drives suddenly died one of them new.

I lost everything and what I got back half was corrupted.

I was able to eventually get everything back mostly from the drive that
had stopped working but still.

Point is, part of security is putting stuff you can't get back in other
places and making sure you have backups.

I have had so called secured systems that I have forgotten their
decryption keys because I don't need access all the time.

In the end, I actually dropped my security level.

Things are still secured, but if I need my important stuff I know I can
get access without trouble now.




On 6/10/2018 9:13 AM, Gene wrote:
> With the continued and increasing vulnerability of essential services in societies to disruption by hackers, private or national, it is the height of foolhardiness to rush headlong into more reliance on computerizing things to the extent you are describing.  If I had my way, I would not allow any more computerization of essential services until effective and credible protections are known to be in place.
>
> Mostly eliminating actual money in this environment is dangerous and foolish and so typical of our suicidal societies.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Antony Stone
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 8:50 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
>
>
> Sweden has become largely cash-free during the past few years (ironically
> enough, partly encouraged by a redesign of the banknotes, which instead of
> accepting the change, people to a large extent simply stopped using them
> completely).
>
> There are many shops, restaurants and bars with signs saying "no cash" or "we
> do not take cash" - they only take payment by card.
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Saturday 09 June 2018 at 14:02:37, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>
>> Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more coins.  They could
>> be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as the
>> jingling, to be honest, less and less people use real money any more.
>> So this may become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a
>> group of Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York area
>> that will accept nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long
>> there will actually be any so called legal tender any more anyway.
>>
>> On 6/8/2018 11:03 PM, Gene wrote:
>>> It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done.
>>> I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your
>>> denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but
>>> coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going
>>> to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a
>>> nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm
>>> owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive
>>> a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People
>>> aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their
>>> pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes.
>>> and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The
>>> penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty,
>>> assuming you never have a higher denomination.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] accessible money
>>>
>>> Hi Kerryn,
>>>
>>>
>>> If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all
>>> coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.
>>> Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with
>>> coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently
>>> rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we
>>> like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for
>>> large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like
>>> Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.
>>>
>>> On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
>>>> hi
>>>> we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind
>>>> or visually  impaired persons
>>>> what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that
>>>> be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in
>>>> terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
>>>> thanks




Re: ++OFFTOPIC++ How I change it?

Gene
 

Also, I just checked.  Your address is still in the full headers of the message.  Those who know how to look at message headers can still see it.
 
Also, I was right.  You would have to change e-mail providers to stop this behavior.  Yahoo is one of the e-mail providers using the antispam protocol I spoke of.  I think you are seeing this syntax in the address line because of that.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 11:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] ++OFFTOPIC++ How I change it?

Hi all,
It should've a few days I noticed this thing on my e-mails.
I see, after my name, the word "via" and the list's name.
For example, sending an e-mail to you, I see "marcio via NVDA
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<". I would like to know how to show my original
e-mail instead of it, as I see on the others's messages here.

Well, that's all.

Thanks in advance,
Marcio



Re: accessible money

 

Well breaches happen all the time via the net, people read cards, etc.

I do think cash will continue to live for ages yet.

It started way before digital, and digital can be a problem, lifting of databases, mistakes or even data outages.

When something fails there is always cash.

On 6/10/2018 9:27 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Sean,


In 2013 Mom went to Target to do some Christmas shopping. When she went to pay for the things, she found out that her information had been stolen. She had to end up getting a new card. I was fortunate not to have that happen to me because I did my shopping at Best Buy. That was when I got a boom box.


Rosemarie




On 6/9/2018 1:50 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
And what if the banks go down.

Actually I can think of another reason, I was traveling with my dad on a holiday to australia, its not far from here its not third world its not  to bad its a western country.

We had enough cash between us but my dad had some issues with one of his credit cards, he had told the local bank I think it was westpack he was going to australia and was assured it would be fine, westpack being an australian bank so didn't need to take precautions you take in other parts of the world.

He got to the machines, and tried to pay, and then tried again, nothing.

He got to the banked and they said his account was compromised.

It took us a huge toll call to ring up the local branch in nz to talk to their managers over there to transfer rights over.

So electronic cash isn't really an option when traveling and in markets and with street people you need cash.

Now with your mobile phone previded you don't drop it, get it locked in a shop by mistake, stolen, or anything else that would have all your data stolen your bank direct app of choice may be able to scale global for you with nfc.

But as for cash, I do have a identifier however I usually keep 20 dollar notes, they are easier to handle than moving 50 dollars out, there are ways to identify them but usually I get a trusted friend to handle my cash or just run 20 and 10 dollar notes.

20 50 10 1 and 2 dollar coins are marked for access.

Having extra coins would be a weight to be honest.

I had a wallet split for having to many coins.




On 6/10/2018 6:19 AM, JM Casey wrote:
I think physical cash money will be around for a very long time yet. Even though it’s true some places are trying to go cash-free, I still see places both here in Canada and in the uS that are cash only. They just prefer it that way, and they have their reasons. I’m mostly for the progress of technology and convenience but I, too, prefer cash for a lot of things. But, I guess we will see how things go. I understand that some countries have already mostly made a transition to being cash-free, so maybe, indeed, it is only a matter of time.




From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: June 9, 2018 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money


Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more coins. They could be differently shaped for ease of accessibility. As far as the jingling, to be honest, less and less people use real money any more.  So this may become a moot point anyway. For example, we are getting a group of Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York area that will accept nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long there will actually be any so called legal tender any more anyway.



On 6/8/2018 11:03 PM, Gene wrote:

It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done.


I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes.


and think of all the different coins you would have to learn. The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money


Hi Kerryn,


If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.



On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

hi

we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons

what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc

thanks









.


Re: ++OFFTOPIC++ How I change it?

Gene
 

I don't think you can.  Maybe if you use another e-mail provider.  I read about this six moths or more ago.  This is a way to deal with a rather new antispam measure that keeps some people from getting list msil.  It really doesn't matter from a practical point of view.  If you want someone to have your address, you can give it to them. 
 
Most people don't know how to send messages to individuals from a list message anyway.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 11:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] ++OFFTOPIC++ How I change it?

Hi all,
It should've a few days I noticed this thing on my e-mails.
I see, after my name, the word "via" and the list's name.
For example, sending an e-mail to you, I see "marcio via NVDA
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<". I would like to know how to show my original
e-mail instead of it, as I see on the others's messages here.

Well, that's all.

Thanks in advance,
Marcio



Re: accessible money

 

Well there is no way to mitigate security type things.

At least not in a reality type deal.

During one of my security classes at university the question was asked of the professer did anyone make a fully secured os and a fully secured network with the right software etc.

His responce was short and to the point.

Yes.

Was it secure.

Yes.

However, it was totally useless at the same time.

Since everything was potentially a virus, and everything was protected, to do anything required so many prompts and quearies to the user that it became unusable.

So to be honest to not be secure is a bad idea.

But to be to secure is a bad idea to.

For the average user we need to be as secure enough that we feel comfortable.

Sadly with today's tech, we want simpler and simpler same goes for accessibility.

Accessibility breaks security, simple systems break security.

Removing simple interfaces and accessibility makes everything more secure.

But the users wouldn't be happy.

For governments and larger corperations you tend to try to hide security so while it is secure the user probably never sees a problem.

And it can go against you big time.

I was working on a server for my uncle's business.

All files were encripted and using something like cryptolocking software was stored on a drive on a computer fully secured with a key and a special board linked to its raid card.

It worked perfectly but last year it started to start slowly, and not run well.

Suspecting the system was on its last legs, and since also the laptop that was used to access some of its functions was also having issues plans were made to do some cloud transfers as well as replace both systems.

Both systems were replaced.

Both systems were re cryptolocked.

Both systems were made ready for the transfer but the server didn't start when I tried to do so.

No one knows what happened as such but the system was on fire when the techs looked at it.

Our guess was the raid card or the special board blew due to age or something else maybe something else.

No one knows how, however, the drive and all its data were basically locked to us, the technition tried everything my uncle even took it for special recovery and they couldn't get the drive to work.

Eventually the technition got to some contact in the government that handled cyber crime and hacking.

He was able to gain access to the drive and transfer all the data off in its completeness but it took 6 months to complete that process.

And even though all the data was there, all the folders, alld the directories, and everything else that was organised was destroyed, the data was in one folder and it was totally rubbish.

Eventually things got sorted out, I almost had this when 2 of my backup drives suddenly died one of them new.

I lost everything and what I got back half was corrupted.

I was able to eventually get everything back mostly from the drive that had stopped working but still.

Point is, part of security is putting stuff you can't get back in other places and making sure you have backups.

I have had so called secured systems that I have forgotten their decryption keys because I don't need access all the time.

In the end, I actually dropped my security level.

Things are still secured, but if I need my important stuff I know I can get access without trouble now.

On 6/10/2018 9:13 AM, Gene wrote:
With the continued and increasing vulnerability of essential services in societies to disruption by hackers, private or national, it is the height of foolhardiness to rush headlong into more reliance on computerizing things to the extent you are describing. If I had my way, I would not allow any more computerization of essential services until effective and credible protections are known to be in place.

Mostly eliminating actual money in this environment is dangerous and foolish and so typical of our suicidal societies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 8:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money


Sweden has become largely cash-free during the past few years (ironically
enough, partly encouraged by a redesign of the banknotes, which instead of
accepting the change, people to a large extent simply stopped using them
completely).

There are many shops, restaurants and bars with signs saying "no cash" or "we
do not take cash" - they only take payment by card.


Antony.

On Saturday 09 June 2018 at 14:02:37, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more coins. They could
be differently shaped for ease of accessibility. As far as the
jingling, to be honest, less and less people use real money any more.
So this may become a moot point anyway. For example, we are getting a
group of Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York area
that will accept nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long
there will actually be any so called legal tender any more anyway.

On 6/8/2018 11:03 PM, Gene wrote:
It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done.
I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your
denominations. Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but
coins? If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going
to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a
nickel back. If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm
owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive
a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes. People
aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their
pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes.
and think of all the different coins you would have to learn. The
penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty,
assuming you never have a higher denomination.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Canazzi <mailto:aa2vm@...>
*Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] accessible money

Hi Kerryn,


If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all
coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.
Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with
coinage. The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently
rimmed and of different sizes and weights. In the United States, we
like our paper money. There was great resistance to any change for
large denominations than quarters. However in a smaller country like
Trinidad, you might have less resistance. Good luck.

On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
hi
we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind
or visually impaired persons
what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that
be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in
terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
thanks


++OFFTOPIC++ How I change it?

 

Hi all,
It should've a few days I noticed this thing on my e-mails.
I see, after my name, the word "via" and the list's name.
For example, sending an e-mail to you, I see "marcio via NVDA <nvda@nvda.groups.io<". I would like to know how to show my original e-mail instead of it, as I see on the others's messages here.

Well, that's all.

Thanks in advance,
Marcio


Re: accessible money

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yes I used to have one. It was called the iBill. It was good, but it would get stuff wrong some of the time especially if money I got  was washed.. It was also a bit slow, slower than money reader for iOs.. It was right htough about 90 percent of the time slow as it was.

On Jun 9, 2018, at 8:37 PM, Kevin <kleeva5@...> wrote:

U.S. is accessible, there is a little device you can purchase that you slip the end of a bill into the slot of the device.  There are two settings you can select, identify by vibration or have what denomination the bill is spoken to you.
You can buy this from Future Aids or Maxie Aids.
But I’m sure everyone knows this!
 
E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee
 
From: Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 7:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 
Gene <gsasner@...> wrote, in part:
Even if you win, the public resentment and ridicule will create enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole cause of acceptance and integration back significantly.
Gene
---My response:
I think that this sort of reasoning insults the intelligence of almost everyone, and it does not make sense either.
I am not worried about ill will being spread on account of me wanting to be sure of what money I am exchanging with a business.
Canadian money and Indian money are reasonably accessible, for just two examples I've used. There is no reason for US money to lag in this respect.
-LM
 
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/9/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
 
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:40 PM

 

 But using that argument,
making money accessible
 when it may not be around much longer can be argued to be
spending a good deal
 of money to correct a problem that may not exist so it
shouldn't be done. 
 After all, it would be hard to justify making a building
wheelchair accessible
 if that building were likely to be torn down in two years
and it wasn't
 providing an essential service.

 

Paper money is so much more
convenient than coins,
 that that is why it was adopted in the first place. 
Accessibility is a
 worthy goal, but if accessibility is done at the expense of
what is generally a
 much better system of doing something for people in general,
it's a pyric
 victory.  Even if you win, the public resentment and
ridicule will create
 enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole
cause of acceptance
 and integration back significantly.

 

Gene

 ----- Original Message
-----

 

 From: Ron
Canazzi
 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:02 AM

 Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
money

 

 Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more
coins.  They could
 be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as
the jingling,
 to be honest, less and less people use real money any
more.  So this may
 become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a
group of
 Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York
area that will accept
 nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long
there will actually be
 any so called legal tender any more anyway.

 

 

 On 6/8/2018 11:03
PM, Gene wrote:

 

   It isn't
reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 

    

   I'll use American denominations in examples since
I don't know your
   denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry
nothing but
   coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin,
I'm not going to
   want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a
dime and a nickel
   back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and
I'm owed eight
   dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to
receive a five dollar
   coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People
aren't going to walk
   around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets
and wearing out the
   material in their clothes. 

    

   and think of all the different coins you would have
to learn.  The
   penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten,
twenty, fifty,
   assuming you never have a higher denomination. 

    

   Gene

  

   ----- Original Message -----

   

   From: Ron
Canazzi

   

   Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM

   Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
money

  

 

   Hi Kerryn,

  

 

   If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to
switch to all coinage
   rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to
do.  Most blind
   people here in the United States have no difficulty with
coinage.  The
   pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently
rimmed and of
   different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we
like our paper
   money.  There was great resistance to any change for
large denominations
   than quarters.  However in a smaller country like
Trinidad, you might
   have less resistance.  Good luck.

  

 

 

   On 6/8/2018 8:29
PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io
   wrote:

   

     

     hi
     we in trinidad would like to make our money
accessible to our blind or
     visually  impaired persons
     what guidelines we should work with as to approach
the powers that be,
     in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this
done, in terms of
     technology, tack tile immages etc
     thanks

      

--
 They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
banana boat!"
--
 They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
banana boat!"

 

 

 
 


Re: accessible money

Kevin <kleeva5@...>
 

U.S. is accessible, there is a little device you can purchase that you slip the end of a bill into the slot of the device.  There are two settings you can select, identify by vibration or have what denomination the bill is spoken to you.

You can buy this from Future Aids or Maxie Aids.

But I’m sure everyone knows this!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

From: Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 7:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

 

Gene <gsasner@...> wrote, in part:

Even if you win, the public resentment and ridicule will create enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole cause of acceptance and integration back significantly.

Gene

---My response:

I think that this sort of reasoning insults the intelligence of almost everyone, and it does not make sense either.

I am not worried about ill will being spread on account of me wanting to be sure of what money I am exchanging with a business.

Canadian money and Indian money are reasonably accessible, for just two examples I've used. There is no reason for US money to lag in this respect.

-LM

 

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/9/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:40 PM

 

 But using that argument,

making money accessible

 when it may not be around much longer can be argued to be

spending a good deal

 of money to correct a problem that may not exist so it

shouldn't be done. 

 After all, it would be hard to justify making a building

wheelchair accessible

 if that building were likely to be torn down in two years

and it wasn't

 providing an essential service.

 

Paper money is so much more

convenient than coins,

 that that is why it was adopted in the first place. 

Accessibility is a

 worthy goal, but if accessibility is done at the expense of

what is generally a

 much better system of doing something for people in general,

it's a pyric

 victory.  Even if you win, the public resentment and

ridicule will create

 enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole

cause of acceptance

 and integration back significantly.

 

Gene

 ----- Original Message

-----

 

 From: Ron

Canazzi

 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:02 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

 Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible

money

 

 Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more

coins.  They could

 be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as

the jingling,

 to be honest, less and less people use real money any

more.  So this may

 become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a

group of

 Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York

area that will accept

 nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long

there will actually be

 any so called legal tender any more anyway.

 

 

 On 6/8/2018 11:03

PM, Gene wrote:

 

   It isn't

reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 

    

   I'll use American denominations in examples since

I don't know your

   denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry

nothing but

   coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin,

I'm not going to

   want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a

dime and a nickel

   back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and

I'm owed eight

   dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to

receive a five dollar

   coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People

aren't going to walk

   around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets

and wearing out the

   material in their clothes. 

    

   and think of all the different coins you would have

to learn.  The

   penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten,

twenty, fifty,

   assuming you never have a higher denomination. 

    

   Gene

  

   ----- Original Message -----

   

   From: Ron

Canazzi

   

   Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM

   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

   Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible

money

  

 

   Hi Kerryn,

  

 

   If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to

switch to all coinage

   rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to

do.  Most blind

   people here in the United States have no difficulty with

coinage.  The

   pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently

rimmed and of

   different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we

like our paper

   money.  There was great resistance to any change for

large denominations

   than quarters.  However in a smaller country like

Trinidad, you might

   have less resistance.  Good luck.

  

 

 

   On 6/8/2018 8:29

PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io

   wrote:

   

     

     hi

     we in trinidad would like to make our money

accessible to our blind or

     visually  impaired persons

     what guidelines we should work with as to approach

the powers that be,

     in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this

done, in terms of

     technology, tack tile immages etc

     thanks

      

--

 They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a

banana boat!"

--

 They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a

banana boat!"

 

 

 

 


Bookmarks in other browsers

Gene
 

I wrote a response to Brian's message but I accidentally sent it to the wrong list.  I no longer have the message so I'm sending it using a different subject line.
 
Gene
 
You would do better to ask about such things here where a lot of people have tried various things than to assume something isn't available and not seriously try or use something perhaps for months or longer because you assume something isn't available based on comments elsewhere without consulting the deep reservoir of experienced users on this list or on lists like Blindtech or Techtalk. 
 
You can use first letter navigation in Chrome as long as you save book marks in a folder other than the default.  I don't know why.
 
But there is a method that is much better and more efficient available in Firefox and in Chrome.  I should say, I haven't tried the Chrome method to any extent, but others have reported that this works well.  I haven't evaluated it enough to comment.
 
First, I'll point out that firefox allows first letter navigation in the default folder, just as Internet Explorer does.
Firefox has an excellent book mmarks search feature.  You toggle it on and off with control I.
Toggle it on, type part or all of a book mark, tab once and look through the list of results or move by first letter navigation in the list.
 
You don't have to type the first word.  It looks for whatever you type.
If you are looking for the new york times, if you type rk ti, that is r k space t I,  you will see anything with those letters in the result.
 
I never waste time organizing book marks any more.  I may use up arrow when I add a bookmark as long as it remains close to the bottom of the list.  But as I add more book marks and it takes more and more up arrows to reach it, I use the search to find it.  It's much more efficient than first letter navigation in most cases because in most cases, you have to type the first letter multiple times to find something or you have to waste time moving things up or down in the list. 
 
As far as Chrome is concerned, I've been told that there is a feature that works like this.  If you are on the address bar, and do a search such as I described above, you will have a list of results below.  I should add that it isn't clear from what people have reported if the search works quite the same.  You may have to type the full name or more of the name, starting from the beginning than in Firefox.  But this feature has been reported and I leave it to those who want to pursue it to experiment and see what they think.
 
Gene


Re: accessible money

Gene
 

It doesn't insult anyone.  Coins are not used in the ways paper money are for a reason.  If blind people demand the elimination of bills, they won't be taken seriously.  Accessibility doesn't mean imposing unreasonable practices on the rest of society.  and replacing bills with coins is unreasonable. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

Gene <gsasner@...> wrote, in part:
Even if you win, the public resentment and ridicule will create enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole cause of acceptance and integration back significantly.
Gene
---My response:
I think that this sort of reasoning insults the intelligence of almost everyone, and it does not make sense either.
I am not worried about ill will being spread on account of me wanting to be sure of what money I am exchanging with a business.
Canadian money and Indian money are reasonably accessible, for just two examples I've used. There is no reason for US money to lag in this respect.
-LM

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/9/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:40 PM
 
 
 But using that argument,
 making money accessible
 when it may not be around much longer can be argued to be
 spending a good deal
 of money to correct a problem that may not exist so it
 shouldn't be done. 
 After all, it would be hard to justify making a building
 wheelchair accessible
 if that building were likely to be torn down in two years
 and it wasn't
 providing an essential service.
  
 Paper money is so much more
 convenient than coins,
 that that is why it was adopted in the first place. 
 Accessibility is a
 worthy goal, but if accessibility is done at the expense of
 what is generally a
 much better system of doing something for people in general,
 it's a pyric
 victory.  Even if you win, the public resentment and
 ridicule will create
 enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole
 cause of acceptance
 and integration back significantly.
  
 Gene
 
 ----- Original Message
 -----
 
 
 From: Ron
 Canazzi
 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:02 AM
 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 
 Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
 money
 
 
 Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more
 coins.  They could
 be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as
 the jingling,
 to be honest, less and less people use real money any
 more.  So this may
 become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a
 group of
 Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York
 area that will accept
 nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long
 there will actually be
 any so called legal tender any more anyway.
 
 
 
 On 6/8/2018 11:03
 PM, Gene wrote:
 
 
   It isn't
 reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 
    
   I'll use American denominations in examples since
 I don't know your
   denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry
 nothing but
   coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin,
 I'm not going to
   want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a
 dime and a nickel
   back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and
 I'm owed eight
   dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to
 receive a five dollar
   coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People
 aren't going to walk
   around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets
 and wearing out the
   material in their clothes. 
    
   and think of all the different coins you would have
 to learn.  The
   penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten,
 twenty, fifty,
   assuming you never have a higher denomination. 
    
   Gene
  
   ----- Original Message -----
 
  
   From: Ron
 Canazzi
  
   Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 
   Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
 money
  
 
   Hi Kerryn,
  
 
   If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to
 switch to all coinage
   rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to
 do.  Most blind
   people here in the United States have no difficulty with
 coinage.  The
   pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently
 rimmed and of
   different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we
 like our paper
   money.  There was great resistance to any change for
 large denominations
   than quarters.  However in a smaller country like
 Trinidad, you might
   have less resistance.  Good luck.
  
 
 
   On 6/8/2018 8:29
 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io
   wrote:
 
  
    
     hi
     we in trinidad would like to make our money
 accessible to our blind or
     visually  impaired persons
     what guidelines we should work with as to approach
 the powers that be,
     in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this
 done, in terms of
     technology, tack tile immages etc
     thanks
      
 --
 They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
 They ask: "How Happy are You?"
 I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
 banana boat!"
 --
 They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
 They ask: "How Happy are You?"
 I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
 banana boat!"
 
 




Re: accessible money

Laurie Mehta
 

Gene <gsasner@...> wrote, in part:
Even if you win, the public resentment and ridicule will create enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole cause of acceptance and integration back significantly.
Gene
---My response:
I think that this sort of reasoning insults the intelligence of almost everyone, and it does not make sense either.
I am not worried about ill will being spread on account of me wanting to be sure of what money I am exchanging with a business.
Canadian money and Indian money are reasonably accessible, for just two examples I've used. There is no reason for US money to lag in this respect.
-LM

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/9/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:40 PM


But using that argument,
making money accessible
when it may not be around much longer can be argued to be
spending a good deal
of money to correct a problem that may not exist so it
shouldn't be done. 
After all, it would be hard to justify making a building
wheelchair accessible
if that building were likely to be torn down in two years
and it wasn't
providing an essential service.
 
Paper money is so much more
convenient than coins,
that that is why it was adopted in the first place. 
Accessibility is a
worthy goal, but if accessibility is done at the expense of
what is generally a
much better system of doing something for people in general,
it's a pyric
victory.  Even if you win, the public resentment and
ridicule will create
enormous ill will toward the recipients and set the whole
cause of acceptance
and integration back significantly.
 
Gene

----- Original Message
-----


From: Ron
Canazzi
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
money


Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more
coins.  They could
be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as
the jingling,
to be honest, less and less people use real money any
more.  So this may
become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a
group of
Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York
area that will accept
nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long
there will actually be
any so called legal tender any more anyway.



On 6/8/2018 11:03
PM, Gene wrote:


It isn't
reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 
 
I'll use American denominations in examples since
I don't know your
denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry
nothing but
coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin,
I'm not going to
want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a
dime and a nickel
back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and
I'm owed eight
dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to
receive a five dollar
coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People
aren't going to walk
around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets
and wearing out the
material in their clothes. 
 
and think of all the different coins you would have
to learn.  The
penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten,
twenty, fifty,
assuming you never have a higher denomination. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----


From: Ron
Canazzi

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible
money


Hi Kerryn,


If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to
switch to all coinage
rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to
do.  Most blind
people here in the United States have no difficulty with
coinage.  The
pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently
rimmed and of
different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we
like our paper
money.  There was great resistance to any change for
large denominations
than quarters.  However in a smaller country like
Trinidad, you might
have less resistance.  Good luck.



On 6/8/2018 8:29
PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io
wrote:



hi
we in trinidad would like to make our money
accessible to our blind or
visually  impaired persons
what guidelines we should work with as to approach
the powers that be,
in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this
done, in terms of
technology, tack tile immages etc
thanks
 
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
banana boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
banana boat!"


Re: accessible money

Robert Mendoza
 

Hi, Rosemary, and others

I feel the same sentiments here in our country in Philippines has no braille embedded to its specially in paper bill. Though this has been raised and hoping they will come out soon for implementation. Sometimes having a smartphone could takes times to read the paper bill or you mentioned folding wasn't enough to organize it to your purse or wallet. Like to share this one time when I was in a store in shopping mall could takes time for me and could build filed up but lucky enough that there are some good personnel who facilitate us for paying the items. But more or less sighted is helpful but not allow to wait to give assistance all the time. It is really needs to be independent not allowing by giving chance of being burden to other. About the credit or debit card there are some banks offering but majority is not allowing blind or visual impaired to have it one not unless someone from your family acts as their main account holder. We are trying to communicate here our local agency to push this and trying our best to reach to some organization who is helping blind and visual impairment community.  I know this could be hurdles and we need to prove to them in order to get this for real. Plus the fact, the lacking and awareness of some technology here sometimes as show stopper and that is the reason why I got involved with different advocacy to enable  to find research and letting them to realize that this concerned is vital.

Robert Mendoza


On 6/10/2018 7:13 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,


I too wish we had accessible money. One time when the guy from Buy Right Pharmacy came to deliver a medication for me, I accidentally handed him a 5-dollar bill thinking it was a one-dollar bill. It's true that not everybody has a smart phone. I can't even afford one because they're so expensive.


Rosemarie




On 6/9/2018 4:04 PM, brian wrote:

    Lets not forget that not everyone has a smart phone and not everyone has a credit card or a debit card because they don't have a bank account.  They are just defying the judgment against them they are just lazy and they are hoping that the total cashless society will come quick enough so they don't have to make our money accessable.  The Usa is the only country that does not have accessable money how sad.  We have to depend on sighted people to tell us what our money is and trust them to tell us the truth.  This does not make me proud to be an american.  our goverment is telling us loud and clear that they don't care about our needs and we are American citizens what a shame.  I hope that those of you who live in countries and do have accessable curency are most greatful and thankful for the gift of financial independence.  We Americans would love to have this but who knows if we will ever have it.  Our paper money just all feels the same.  a hundred dollar bills feels like a one dallar bill.  I do wish that we had the kind of money that Canada has they have done it right so if they can do it then so can the Usa.  We have been provided with money readers by nls as a sulution but try to use this device at the check out counter and see what happens you will be holding up the line.  this is a very bad sulution to the problem of inaccessable curency.  It does not matter if you fold your bills in different ways or you have a billfold with 4 compartments as I have you first have to know what the bills are.  If you get in a hury you could miss fold the bill or put it in the wrong compartment I have done this.  We need to be able to identify our paper curency quickly and acuratly.

Brian Sackrider


On 6/8/2018 11:37 PM, Holger Fiallo wrote:
Do we need it? Now that we have apps that can tell us what is what?  Just asking.
 
From: Andy
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 
In 2008 the Federal courts ruled that the U. S. Treasury Dept. had to make currency accessible. They have diddled around for years, with study after study, and still no accessible money. They just don't want to do it, and are hoping that people will use credit and devit cards, etc.
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaffar Sidek
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi.  I am in a rather unique position because i get to experience both sides of money, accessible and inaccessible.  Here in Singapore, we have currency notes of different sizes and made of different materials.  $2, $5 and $10 are of different sizes and are made of plastic, $2 being the smallest and $10 being the biggest size of this sub group.  Then there

is the group of $50, $100, $500 and $1000 currency notes.  These are made of tough paper, again of different sizes.  It is easy to tell the diference between one denomination from the other once you get use to it.  On the other hand, I am married to a Filipina, and The Philippines Peso notes are all of the same size, no matter which currency, so i need guidance on that score when I am back in the philippines with wife and family.  Cheers!
On 6/9/2018 11:03 AM, Gene wrote:
It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 
 
I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes. 
 
and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi Kerryn,

 

If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.

 


On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
hi
we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons
what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
thanks
 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





Re: accessible money

Kerryn Gunness
 


thank you  all for your input in this money issue
someone mentioned a money identifier device, if so, which one we in trinidad should use and how to allow a money identifier to recognise trinidad and tobago currency
also i did not no the  US  and phillipeens did not have accessible currency? hmmm
thankfully canada and singapore is on par with accessibility for their currency
i fully agree not everyone has a smart phone
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

When I order things like pizza or a sandwich from places like Dominos, I use cash. I don't think too many people are writing checks anymore because now they can pay bills online. I still pay my rent by check but we do have the option to pay it online here if we choose to.



On 6/9/2018 11:19 AM, JM Casey wrote:

I think physical cash money will be around for a very long time yet. Even though it’s true some places are trying to go cash-free, I still see places both here in Canada and in the uS that are cash only. They just prefer it that way, and they have their reasons. I’m mostly for the progress of technology and convenience but I, too, prefer cash for a lot of things. But, I guess we will see how things go. I understand that some countries have already mostly made a transition to being cash-free, so maybe, indeed, it is only a matter of time.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: June 9, 2018 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

 

Well, we wouldn't have to learn any more than 5 more coins.  They could be differently shaped for ease of accessibility.  As far as the jingling, to be honest, less and less people use real money any more.  So this may become a moot point anyway.  For example, we are getting a group of Starbucks's restaurants locally in the Buffalo, New York area that will accept nothing but credit or debit cards. So I wonder how long there will actually be any so called legal tender any more anyway.

 

 

On 6/8/2018 11:03 PM, Gene wrote:

It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 

 

I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes. 

 

and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money

 

Hi Kerryn,

 

If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.

 

 

On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

hi

we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons

what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc

thanks

 



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: FW: [win10] For Version 1803+NVDA users: if you need to enter a new product key and you can't enter it, restart NVDA

 

Hi,

Feedback Hub link: https://aka.ms/AA1jj4v

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 4:38 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] For Version 1803+NVDA users: if you need to enter a new product key and you can't enter it, restart NVDA

 

Hi,

The below advisory is considered a serious regression. I’ll come back once I obtain a short link to the feedback item.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 4:36 PM
To: win10@groups.io
Subject: [win10] For Version 1803+NVDA users: if you need to enter a new product key and you can't enter it, restart NVDA #ADVISORY #WinTen1803 #NVDASR

 

Hi,

 

The following was confirmed by at least three people and affects Version 1803+NVDA combination at the moment:

 

Issue: when trying to change product keys, NVDA does not respond when you try to tab through the product key entry screen in Version 1803.

 

Steps to reproduce:

 

  1. Open Settings.
  2. Go to Update and Security/Activation.
  3. Select “Change product key” link.

 

Expected: you can tab through this screen.

Actual: nothing.

Workaround: restart NVDA right then. After that, you’ll hear NVDA respond as you tab through product key entry screen.

 

Details:

 

  • Windows 10 release affected: Version 1803 (build 17134) only
  • Screen reader affected: NVDA.
  • Reproducible: yes.
  • Resolved in Insider Preview builds: yes.

 

This is a rather serious regression and I’m about to file a feedback about this – once it is filed, I’ll share the short link so folks who can access Feedback Hub and upvote this can do so.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


FW: [win10] For Version 1803+NVDA users: if you need to enter a new product key and you can't enter it, restart NVDA

 

Hi,

The below advisory is considered a serious regression. I’ll come back once I obtain a short link to the feedback item.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 4:36 PM
To: win10@groups.io
Subject: [win10] For Version 1803+NVDA users: if you need to enter a new product key and you can't enter it, restart NVDA #ADVISORY #WinTen1803 #NVDASR

 

Hi,

 

The following was confirmed by at least three people and affects Version 1803+NVDA combination at the moment:

 

Issue: when trying to change product keys, NVDA does not respond when you try to tab through the product key entry screen in Version 1803.

 

Steps to reproduce:

 

  1. Open Settings.
  2. Go to Update and Security/Activation.
  3. Select “Change product key” link.

 

Expected: you can tab through this screen.

Actual: nothing.

Workaround: restart NVDA right then. After that, you’ll hear NVDA respond as you tab through product key entry screen.

 

Details:

 

  • Windows 10 release affected: Version 1803 (build 17134) only
  • Screen reader affected: NVDA.
  • Reproducible: yes.
  • Resolved in Insider Preview builds: yes.

 

This is a rather serious regression and I’m about to file a feedback about this – once it is filed, I’ll share the short link so folks who can access Feedback Hub and upvote this can do so.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: accessible money

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,


I too wish we had accessible money. One time when the guy from Buy Right Pharmacy came to deliver a medication for me, I accidentally handed him a 5-dollar bill thinking it was a one-dollar bill. It's true that not everybody has a smart phone. I can't even afford one because they're so expensive.


Rosemarie




On 6/9/2018 4:04 PM, brian wrote:

    Lets not forget that not everyone has a smart phone and not everyone has a credit card or a debit card because they don't have a bank account.  They are just defying the judgment against them they are just lazy and they are hoping that the total cashless society will come quick enough so they don't have to make our money accessable.  The Usa is the only country that does not have accessable money how sad.  We have to depend on sighted people to tell us what our money is and trust them to tell us the truth.  This does not make me proud to be an american.  our goverment is telling us loud and clear that they don't care about our needs and we are American citizens what a shame.  I hope that those of you who live in countries and do have accessable curency are most greatful and thankful for the gift of financial independence.  We Americans would love to have this but who knows if we will ever have it.  Our paper money just all feels the same.  a hundred dollar bills feels like a one dallar bill.  I do wish that we had the kind of money that Canada has they have done it right so if they can do it then so can the Usa.  We have been provided with money readers by nls as a sulution but try to use this device at the check out counter and see what happens you will be holding up the line.  this is a very bad sulution to the problem of inaccessable curency.  It does not matter if you fold your bills in different ways or you have a billfold with 4 compartments as I have you first have to know what the bills are.  If you get in a hury you could miss fold the bill or put it in the wrong compartment I have done this.  We need to be able to identify our paper curency quickly and acuratly.

Brian Sackrider


On 6/8/2018 11:37 PM, Holger Fiallo wrote:
Do we need it? Now that we have apps that can tell us what is what?  Just asking.
 
From: Andy
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 
In 2008 the Federal courts ruled that the U. S. Treasury Dept. had to make currency accessible. They have diddled around for years, with study after study, and still no accessible money. They just don't want to do it, and are hoping that people will use credit and devit cards, etc.
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaffar Sidek
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi.  I am in a rather unique position because i get to experience both sides of money, accessible and inaccessible.  Here in Singapore, we have currency notes of different sizes and made of different materials.  $2, $5 and $10 are of different sizes and are made of plastic, $2 being the smallest and $10 being the biggest size of this sub group.  Then there

is the group of $50, $100, $500 and $1000 currency notes.  These are made of tough paper, again of different sizes.  It is easy to tell the diference between one denomination from the other once you get use to it.  On the other hand, I am married to a Filipina, and The Philippines Peso notes are all of the same size, no matter which currency, so i need guidance on that score when I am back in the philippines with wife and family.  Cheers!
On 6/9/2018 11:03 AM, Gene wrote:
It isn't reasonable to ask that switching to coins be done. 
 
I'll use American denominations in examples since I don't know your denominations.  Who is going to be willing to carry nothing but coins?  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin, I'm not going to want to get four coins for dollars and two quarters, a dime and a nickel back.  If I pay for something with a ten dollar coin and I'm owed eight dollars and twenty cents, I am not going to want to receive a five dollar coin, three one dollar coins and two dimes.  People aren't going to walk around with lots of heavy coins jingling in their pockets and wearing out the material in their clothes. 
 
and think of all the different coins you would have to learn.  The penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, five dollar, ten, twenty, fifty, assuming you never have a higher denomination. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible money
 

Hi Kerryn,

 

If you can convince the powers that be in Trinidad to switch to all coinage rather than paper money, that would be the ideal thing to do.  Most blind people here in the United States have no difficulty with coinage.  The pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all differently rimmed and of different sizes and weights.  In the United States, we like our paper money.  There was great resistance to any change for large denominations than quarters.  However in a smaller country like Trinidad, you might have less resistance.  Good luck.

 


On 6/8/2018 8:29 PM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:
hi
we in trinidad would like to make our money accessible to our blind or visually  impaired persons
what guidelines we should work with as to approach the powers that be, in our meeting on tuesday 12th june, in having this done, in terms of technology, tack tile immages etc
thanks
 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: accessible money

Antony Stone
 

I think it is an overstatement to say that "the USA is the only country that
does not have accessible money".

I agree that not everyone has a smart phone, but how is it possible to live
these days (assuming you have an income, whether it be from a job or from
benefits, or both, and assuming you have a home, which you have to pay for,
either in rent or a mortgage) without a bank account?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 June 2018 at 01:04:29, brian wrote:

Lets not forget that not everyone has a smart phone and not
everyone has a credit card or a debit card because they don't have a
bank account. They are just defying the judgment against them they are
just lazy and they are hoping that the total cashless society will come
quick enough so they don't have to make our money accessable. The Usa
is the only country that does not have accessable money how sad. We
have to depend on sighted people to tell us what our money is and trust
them to tell us the truth. This does not make me proud to be an
american. our goverment is telling us loud and clear that they don't
care about our needs and we are American citizens what a shame. I hope
that those of you who live in countries and do have accessable curency
are most greatful and thankful for the gift of financial independence.
We Americans would love to have this but who knows if we will ever have
it. Our paper money just all feels the same. a hundred dollar bills
feels like a one dallar bill. I do wish that we had the kind of money
that Canada has they have done it right so if they can do it then so can
the Usa. We have been provided with money readers by nls as a sulution
but try to use this device at the check out counter and see what happens
you will be holding up the line. this is a very bad sulution to the
problem of inaccessable curency. It does not matter if you fold your
bills in different ways or you have a billfold with 4 compartments as I
have you first have to know what the bills are. If you get in a hury
you could miss fold the bill or put it in the wrong compartment I have
done this. We need to be able to identify our paper curency quickly and
acuratly.

Brian Sackrider
--
"Hi, I've found a fault with the English language and I need an entomologist."
"I think you mean an etymologist."
"No. It's a bug, not a feature."

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.