Date   

Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

 

To be honest, I doubt vfo would be interested in actually joining microsoft.

Dolphin is so far behind with various things that could be a concern.

As for narator being like nvda, with the state of narator I do wander if microsoft were to ditch narator and just use nvda.

Maybe give nvda the scan feature and things like that.

Narator is not a real screen reader, a companion reader for sure but not a heavy screen reader.

As for everything becoming an app, with skype like it is and with rumors about the universal app platform being well being simply not as popular as microsoft once thought with  all those restrictions, the desktop is still the future at least for a while or at least I hope.

The cloud will get used more and more.

People may subscribe to windows, office and other things in the future.

But the rest, who knows.

I would have no issue to be honest if microsoft decided to include nvda in windows by default instead of or as well as narator.

On 6/5/2018 6:24 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
It has moved before remember but if you go back to the thread about the future of nvda a few days ago, I cannot help but feel that looking at Apple and Android, we are moving toward integrated accessibility, and third party screenreaders are not used any more. of course this reduces choice, but what it can do is allow all software writers to be accessible if they work on the platform, since compliance with the  standard might in the future mean the difference between being in the main store as an app.
I think things are going this way. Would it not be great if narrator had all the responsiveness of nvda and its configurability?
Maybe this is the rose coloured glasses  view and seldom are things this tidy, but the  issue for commercial operations like Jaws and Supernova  are not going to make those programs and their owners get into bed with Microsoft are they?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall handheld Flax" <m.droid.flax@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


The beauty of git is that everyone who has a local clone of a repo has the
*full* history of the repo.  So NVDA is in no immediate danger.

Long-term, things could get worse.  But I think NVDA has a strong user
community outside of Github...it will do just fine regardless of what
happens to github.

Marshall

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:

Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of
projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and
dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which
may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome,
well I just get used to that but even so.





On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes
it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they
got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be
inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

bglists@...
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <
@florianionascu7>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian












.


Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

 

If you navigate through it carefully then you can uncheck the box.

Ofcause it all depends on what you use.

Some of my software will come up asking to install google chrome and google toolbar.

If its a new system I usually take the offer of chrome as I don't need to load it later.

Just for once, I'd like an add supported solution that had adds, software, and other offers that could be customised per user that we had an interest in including deals for what we allready owned.

I realise this envolves sharing more private information but if this stuff is here to stay it would at least make me want to at least look at the website.

On 6/5/2018 6:19 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I've had little issue with opencandy as its mostly now able to be circumvented. The worst one is ccleaner since every so often they bundle avast and the choice is ticked on and it is not accessible. Indeed even unchecky does not see it as it is a button of some sort that is pressed by default not a checkbox any more I tend to try to get the portable version but often this is a version behind.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome, well I just get used to that but even so.




On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <@florianionascu7>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian










.


Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually fall back on narrator when nvda brakes. I love it. I used it once to control obs when nvda for some reason broke during a vodcast. I don't know how to use all of  narrator but I'm learning especially the mouse functions etc.

I guess we'll see what happens tomorrow eh?

On Jun 5, 2018, at 12:38 AM, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...> wrote:

You know, with Microsoft and its recent announcements, I wouldn't be surprised if narrator suddenly was open sourced in some way or another.
I doubt it would happen, but if it did, and having direct access to Microsoft goodbye everything else. Honestly not sure how this would work since it's a core function of windows.

Maybe narrator will become yet another windows 10 app and be updated periodically, similar to talkback with android?

I can't see NVDA going anywhere, but at the same time it all hinges on Microsoft's actions because for a lot of users, if narrator had quicker response times and a few other things, it would be perfect for the basics - not that it really isn't already, not counting the latency.


On 05-Jun-2018 1:24 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
It has moved before remember but if you go back to the thread about the future of nvda a few days ago, I cannot help but feel that looking at Apple and Android, we are moving toward integrated accessibility, and third party screenreaders are not used any more. of course this reduces choice, but what it can do is allow all software writers to be accessible if they work on the platform, since compliance with the  standard might in the future mean the difference between being in the main store as an app.
I think things are going this way. Would it not be great if narrator had all the responsiveness of nvda and its configurability?
Maybe this is the rose coloured glasses  view and seldom are things this tidy, but the  issue for commercial operations like Jaws and Supernova  are not going to make those programs and their owners get into bed with Microsoft are they?
Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall handheld Flax" <m.droid.flax@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


The beauty of git is that everyone who has a local clone of a repo has the
*full* history of the repo.  So NVDA is in no immediate danger.

Long-term, things could get worse.  But I think NVDA has a strong user
community outside of Github...it will do just fine regardless of what
happens to github.

Marshall

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of
projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and
dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which
may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome,
well I just get used to that but even so.





On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes
it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they
got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be
inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <
florianionascu@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian






















Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

Tyler Wood
 

You know, with Microsoft and its recent announcements, I wouldn't be surprised if narrator suddenly was open sourced in some way or another.
I doubt it would happen, but if it did, and having direct access to Microsoft goodbye everything else. Honestly not sure how this would work since it's a core function of windows.

Maybe narrator will become yet another windows 10 app and be updated periodically, similar to talkback with android?

I can't see NVDA going anywhere, but at the same time it all hinges on Microsoft's actions because for a lot of users, if narrator had quicker response times and a few other things, it would be perfect for the basics - not that it really isn't already, not counting the latency.

On 05-Jun-2018 1:24 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
It has moved before remember but if you go back to the thread about the future of nvda a few days ago, I cannot help but feel that looking at Apple and Android, we are moving toward integrated accessibility, and third party screenreaders are not used any more. of course this reduces choice, but what it can do is allow all software writers to be accessible if they work on the platform, since compliance with the  standard might in the future mean the difference between being in the main store as an app.
I think things are going this way. Would it not be great if narrator had all the responsiveness of nvda and its configurability?
Maybe this is the rose coloured glasses  view and seldom are things this tidy, but the  issue for commercial operations like Jaws and Supernova  are not going to make those programs and their owners get into bed with Microsoft are they?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall handheld Flax" <m.droid.flax@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


The beauty of git is that everyone who has a local clone of a repo has the
*full* history of the repo.  So NVDA is in no immediate danger.

Long-term, things could get worse.  But I think NVDA has a strong user
community outside of Github...it will do just fine regardless of what
happens to github.

Marshall

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:

Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of
projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and
dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which
may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome,
well I just get used to that but even so.





On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes
it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they
got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be
inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <
@florianionascu7>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian












Re: gitlab

Tyler Wood
 

I have to chuckle a little.

Microsoft is trying hard to be a part of open source and being all inclusive. Has anyone actually taken a look at what windows 10 is doing in regards to integration with Linux?

So, run Linux full time, okay cool. I get that. But don't hate on a company that is doing, essentially, everything people asked for and complained about for years. Because the walled garden just got even more walled and ridiculous as far as computers and its software are concerned.


Of course, what is even funnier to me is that everyone is screaming about privacy and Microsoft but they have an android handset on their desk next to them.

Don't be evil!

On 05-Jun-2018 1:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
And what makes that any safer? It looks like much of the internet will be owned by a few big players as time moves on and online becomes the default for living in our world.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:23 PM
Subject: [nvda] gitlab


Hi.

Searching google today with the rumor about ms getting github people are already moving to gitlab witch is another previder of git like services.

I don't see the need to rush into things on the other hand maybe we should to continue as we are.






Re: Beware next snaps for a few days.

 

Hi,
Caused by latest Golden Cursor add-on snapshot. I'll release a hotfix to
address these in a few hours.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 12:27 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Beware next snaps for a few days.

At the time of writing this the preferences sheets cannot be exited with OK
there are other funnies in them too. Also focus highlight does throw an
error as previously mentioned on exit.
So the thread on here about updating next branch might be best left till
the problems are fixed in case you get into a situation where a non working
nvda is installed and you cannot get rid of it!!
Just saying.
Brian

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Beware next snaps for a few days.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

At the time of writing this the preferences sheets cannot be exited with OK there are other funnies in them too. Also focus highlight does throw an error as previously mentioned on exit.
So the thread on here about updating next branch might be best left till the problems are fixed in case you get into a situation where a non working nvda is installed and you cannot get rid of it!!
Just saying.
Brian

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Re: troubleshooting updates issues

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Was there not an issue a while back due to an old copy of a runtime being in the nvda folder with the same name as a newer version???
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] troubleshooting updates issues


What if you download the file manually?

If you would like to download the 2018.2 release candidate, you can get
that here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-2rc2-released/
If you would like the latest Next or Master snapshot, you can download
here: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/



On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Governor staten <@Govsta> wrote:

I see there is a new update recently put out. I went and tried to update.
However, it just beeps and sits there for minutes. Not sure why.



------------------------------


On 6/4/2018 10:58 PM, David Moore wrote:

I just obtained that newest NVDA snap shot that you speak of. I was able
to get it from updates, download it, and install it in a couple of minutes.
This must be a hit and miss thing depending on what device, area of the
world, maybe or something.

I am able to update to the next snapshots just fine!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *Governor staten <@Govsta>
*Sent: *Monday, June 4, 2018 9:39 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *[nvda] troubleshooting updates issues



Hello:



For a while now, I've had issues when updating to new snapshots of NVDA.

It's a hit and miss deal with me.





Currently, I"m running a fairly new install of Windows 10, 1803. The

version of next I'm running is NVDA next-15159,465f57b2. There is a

newer snapshot available, but, I can't get it through update functionality.





How can we troubleshoot this and get it fixed permanently? This problem

has persisted for a bit now, a month or two, possibly. Any ideas to help

with this are appreciated.












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: troubleshooting updates issues

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Hi as a matter of interest, there is an error in the latest next as it exits.

DEBUG - core._terminate (07:37:49.388):
Terminating global plugin handler
DEBUG - external:globalPlugins.focusHighlight.GlobalPlugin.terminate (07:37:49.888):
focusHighlight terminated
ERROR - globalPluginHandler.terminate (07:37:49.888):
Error terminating global plugin <globalPlugins.goldenCursor.GlobalPlugin object at 0x04F7FD10>
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "globalPluginHandler.pyc", line 40, in terminate
File "C:\nvda extra\userConfig\addons\goldenCursor\globalPlugins\goldenCursor.py", line 292, in terminate
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'PyDeadObjectError'
DEBUG - core._terminate (07:37:49.895):
Terminating gui
DEBUG - fileUtils.FaultTolerantFile (07:37:49.904):
C:\nvda extra\userConfig\nvda.iniaifiya.tmp
INFO - config.ConfigManager.save (07:37:49.923):
Base configuration saved

What is a dead object error when its at home???
Brian
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] troubleshooting updates issues


What if you download the file manually?

If you would like to download the 2018.2 release candidate, you can get
that here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-2rc2-released/
If you would like the latest Next or Master snapshot, you can download
here: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/



On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Governor staten <@Govsta> wrote:

I see there is a new update recently put out. I went and tried to update.
However, it just beeps and sits there for minutes. Not sure why.



------------------------------


On 6/4/2018 10:58 PM, David Moore wrote:

I just obtained that newest NVDA snap shot that you speak of. I was able
to get it from updates, download it, and install it in a couple of minutes.
This must be a hit and miss thing depending on what device, area of the
world, maybe or something.

I am able to update to the next snapshots just fine!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *Governor staten <@Govsta>
*Sent: *Monday, June 4, 2018 9:39 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *[nvda] troubleshooting updates issues



Hello:



For a while now, I've had issues when updating to new snapshots of NVDA.

It's a hit and miss deal with me.





Currently, I"m running a fairly new install of Windows 10, 1803. The

version of next I'm running is NVDA next-15159,465f57b2. There is a

newer snapshot available, but, I can't get it through update functionality.





How can we troubleshoot this and get it fixed permanently? This problem

has persisted for a bit now, a month or two, possibly. Any ideas to help

with this are appreciated.












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: troubleshooting updates issues

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The only issue I sometimes find on updates is after they install, the reboot of the new copy fails. I have mentioned this before and I think it was pinned down to some kind of subtle difference in my windows 7 machine not releasing the lock on the log file fast enough, making it impossible to rename the log to the old log name. At this point of course the new copy cannot write a log as its still open for another process with the result that an error is generated, but not read due to no nvda running. The simple answer to this is to just press escape and do a re run of nvda manually from the shortcut key. Nothing is broken just a little on the lazy side. No amount of messing with the update code seems to fix this for the few people who have it though Interestingly most who do are using samsung SSD drives, so maybe its a driver issue there.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] troubleshooting updates issues


I just obtained that newest NVDA snap shot that you speak of. I was able to get it from updates, download it, and install it in a couple of minutes. This must be a hit and miss thing depending on what device, area of the world, maybe or something.
I am able to update to the next snapshots just fine!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Governor staten
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 9:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] troubleshooting updates issues

Hello:

For a while now, I've had issues when updating to new snapshots of NVDA.
It's a hit and miss deal with me.


Currently, I"m running a fairly new install of Windows 10, 1803. The
version of next I'm running is NVDA next-15159,465f57b2. There is a
newer snapshot available, but, I can't get it through update functionality.


How can we troubleshoot this and get it fixed permanently? This problem
has persisted for a bit now, a month or two, possibly. Any ideas to help
with this are appreciated.


Re: gitlab

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

And what makes that any safer? It looks like much of the internet will be owned by a few big players as time moves on and online becomes the default for living in our world.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:23 PM
Subject: [nvda] gitlab


Hi.

Searching google today with the rumor about ms getting github people are already moving to gitlab witch is another previder of git like services.

I don't see the need to rush into things on the other hand maybe we should to continue as we are.




Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It has moved before remember but if you go back to the thread about the future of nvda a few days ago, I cannot help but feel that looking at Apple and Android, we are moving toward integrated accessibility, and third party screenreaders are not used any more. of course this reduces choice, but what it can do is allow all software writers to be accessible if they work on the platform, since compliance with the standard might in the future mean the difference between being in the main store as an app.
I think things are going this way. Would it not be great if narrator had all the responsiveness of nvda and its configurability?
Maybe this is the rose coloured glasses view and seldom are things this tidy, but the issue for commercial operations like Jaws and Supernova are not going to make those programs and their owners get into bed with Microsoft are they?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Marshall handheld Flax" <m.droid.flax@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


The beauty of git is that everyone who has a local clone of a repo has the
*full* history of the repo. So NVDA is in no immediate danger.

Long-term, things could get worse. But I think NVDA has a strong user
community outside of Github...it will do just fine regardless of what
happens to github.

Marshall

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:

Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of
projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and
dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which
may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome,
well I just get used to that but even so.





On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes
it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they
got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be
inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <
@florianionascu7>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian











Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I've had little issue with opencandy as its mostly now able to be circumvented. The worst one is ccleaner since every so often they bundle avast and the choice is ticked on and it is not accessible. Indeed even unchecky does not see it as it is a button of some sort that is pressed by default not a checkbox any more I tend to try to get the portable version but often this is a version behind.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome, well I just get used to that but even so.




On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <@florianionascu7>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian








Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Many web sites have a place called external links, with a disclaimer you read in that area. IE xx cannot control the content on any external links etc,

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository


I don't think that's a good way to do it. Under development doesn't have anything to do with certification. Why not simply have a separate page with links from the official pages to the unofficial pages and visa versa? There could be text above or below the link explaining the differences between approved and unapproved add ons. If you have an under development page with officially under review add ons and completely unreviewed add ons, this is not at all a clear division.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 6:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository


Hi,

Add-ons are, in fact, user created (except a few).

I think, as a compromise, the “add-ons under development” section might be repurposed to hold user-created add-ons (if the community agrees with this compromise).

As for how that page is sorted: it is done according to the last created date in reverse chronological order. The source Markdown file is created on NVDA translations workflow system, and the date and time the source Markdown file is first committed to Assembla Subversion repo is the sole sorting criteria. Thus, it can get confusing when an add-on gets posted yet it is a bit old.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 4:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository



On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 04:36 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:

It is not too much, I just wanted to make clear that we strictly have to split it.

I guess that depends on how you define "strictly." I am willing to go with "clearly."

It would be entirely possible to use the existing "official" add-ons page, and make a clear separation between two sections: Official and User Created.

My main point is talking about using something like Github is, from the perspective of getting contributors to contribute for their "quick and dirty" yet still entirely useful for specific purpose efforts is, quite simply, dead on arrival. Those who'd like to download those add-ons would run screaming from Github.

My idea is a webpage, even if it's a separate webpage, that is formatted much like the existing one for the official add-ons, where it's easy to download the add-ons.

As an aside, can anyone tell me what the organizing principle is at https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html? The list certainly isn't alphabetical, and I have never been able to see what, if any, ordering is present in the add-ons listed there. That drives me insane; it just goes against the inner organizer that I am (no, pay no attention to the condition of my home or my garage!)

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Adriani Botez
 

As I said, to create a repository with all unofficial addons is not a problem. But you have to know that there will not improve your NVDA experience significantly. I can say I have tested prety much almost every unoficial addon. Many of them cause conflicts. I hope we do not get to a point where people have problems with NVDA and we cannot give support to solve them because we don‘t know how an unoficial addon influenced nvda’s core. I used a portuguese addon some months ago and after a while my speech dictionary was broken and spamed with very strange entries. It made ms excel for me almost unusable for example. I thought it was a bug in NVDA and reported on github. We had quite long discussions about it, because many people didn’t reproduce that issue. I even reinstalled ms office, I restored my whole system but the issues were still there. One day someone suggested to have a look at the speech dictionary and I was shocked to see lots of entries with no meaning. They didn’t disapear even though I removed all addons and even reinstalled NVDA. Finally, I had to remove them all manually.

So, what I am saying is, I hope we will not begin endless discussions about bugs in NVDA where they in fact are caused by unofficial addons. At least new users could easily think those bugs are NVDA bugs.

To be honest and from my experience, I vote against such a.cathegory of addons on the official addons website. But well, if the majority of you wants it, then I guess it will happen.

Best
Adriani
s
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 05.06.2018 um 02:05 schrieb Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss>:

The community page is where all official addons are that are fine to use.

Its mainly ease to locate for me more than anything else.

However I have always said things like ifinterpriters and some of the game interpriter addons should really become part of core by now, I mean they are about.

THe jgt japanese game addon by ian read at blindaudiogames.com is another thing, but again, its only for japanese games.

Jeffs nvda addon page contains older addons, alegal synths, etc.

Saying that I wouldn't object to an unofficial addons repo where ideas and such are handled and where you could fiddle round with addons but over that who knows.




On 6/5/2018 12:00 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:
The whole thing comes off a bit snobbish to me. Maybe that isn't the
intent, but I get this, "Addons on the community site are the best addons
you'll be able to find for NVDA and any other addons are just not up to
snuff" sort of vibe. I've gotten addons from other places that rival, if
not exceed addons from the community page. That being said, I haven't
really had any problems with addons there, it just seems like NDVA devs and
addon writers, at least the more well known ones push so hard for people to
have their addons reviewed for use there. It seems like its an attempt to
lord it over everyone else how your addons aren't good unless they're up on
the community page.



Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

derek riemer
 

Sorry, when I hit control+v, firefox decided that meant send.

Acceptance

  1. Developer writes addon
  2. Developer submits addon to the community
  3. Community considers the possibility of accepting the add-on through basic review (licensing, copyright considerations, security implications, etc.).
  4. If requested by the author, perform more rigorous review.
    • 4.1. Check that the addon adds interesting/useful features.
    • 4.2. Maybe can be merged with an existing addon or included in NVDA's core?
    • If community considers addon to be useful, accept. Addon status is now dev.

Release and maintenance

  1. Author releases the add-on and incorporates comments from reviewers and users.
  2. Author requests reviews.
  3. 7.1: For major releases: before major version is released to check for license changes and other basic review.
  4. 7.2: For continuous releases, at least once a year.
  5. Reviewers and testers check the add-on doesn't contain harmful code and authorize to post on the add-ons website.
  6. Authors or reviewers (preferably authors) can release maintainance versions of the add-on to update translations or fix critical issues, notifying add-on changes on add-ons mailing list.

Deletion

  1. Authors and reviewers should remove add-ons which contain harmful code, or if they become unuseful, for instance when NVDA implements their functionality, notifying this on add-ons mailing list.

Notes

  1. If the addon author is also a community reviewer, s/he can not be the community reviewer for his/her addon.
  2. Users can be considered reviewers when they provide significant feedback, such as reporting bugs, suggestions and so on.
  3. Code will be considered to be harmful when, but not only, can change, delete or copy system or external files without a clear and useful purpose, produces Internet connections without a justified reason, etc.
  4. Authors should discuss certain aspects of add-ons if they believe copyrights and licensing falls under a gray area (such as synthesizer licenses).
  5. For addons, master branch is equivalent to NVDA next, i.e. considered for testing purposes. Stable branch is considered to have had some testing and should be relatively error free/ok to run on your system.
  6. Stable branch will receive translation updates if the add-on is translatable.
  7. Authors and reviewers are strongly encouraged to follow our guidelines, to ensure the quality of community add-ons.
  8. If add-on authors can't continue a required work, they can be replaced by another maintainer three months after the first request.

Last edited

 

https://addons.nvda-project.org/processes.en.html

I do not Agree with the wording of all of this, and think some of it should be made more liberal/changed to make the actual position more clear.  I want to make it clear that we don’t intentionally check things like coding style. The guidelines are simply there to give developers a reference.

I think this should be changed.

3.      Community considers the possibility of accepting the add-on through basic review (licensing, copyright considerations, security implications, etc.).

I propose 

3.The NVDA Community performs an addon basic review, checking for the following things. GPL Compliance, and stability and security.


Also, I would personally remove everything related to release process. We aren't here to tell people how to release addons. Mozilla and other stores simply put the addon on the site if the basic review passes. If the user requests feedback on their addon, it should not block review, and a rewrite of this verbage would make that more clear. I also 

This whole document needs rewritten, and is not clearly written which makes it confusing.



On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 11:07 PM Derek Riemer <driemer.riemer@...> wrote:
Hi:
The official addons repository doesn't endorse addons, nor does it actually ensure the addons are of high quality, it simply reviews for security, and legality, and makes sure they don't break NVDA in any way which would make it hard to use the addon, I.E. uninstalling it would be hard because it breaks speech, or the addon causes braille to completely fail.

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
The community page is where all official addons are that are fine to use.

Its mainly ease to locate for me more than anything else.

However I have always said things like ifinterpriters and some of the
game interpriter addons should really become part of core by now, I mean
they are about.

THe jgt japanese game addon by ian read at blindaudiogames.com is
another thing, but again, its only for japanese games.

Jeffs nvda addon page contains older addons, alegal synths, etc.

Saying that I wouldn't object to an unofficial addons repo where ideas
and such are handled and where you could fiddle round with addons but
over that who knows.




On 6/5/2018 12:00 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:
> The whole thing comes off a bit snobbish to me. Maybe that isn't the
> intent, but I get this, "Addons on the community site are the best addons
> you'll be able to find for NVDA and any other addons are just not up to
> snuff" sort of vibe. I've gotten addons from other places that rival, if
> not exceed addons from the community page. That being said, I haven't
> really had any problems with addons there, it just seems like NDVA devs and
> addon writers, at least the more well known ones push so hard for people to
> have their addons reviewed for use there. It seems like its an attempt to
> lord it over everyone else how your addons aren't good unless they're up on
> the community page.
>






--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website




--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Re: "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

derek riemer
 



On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 3:40 AM Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:
I think people don't submit their addons for code review because hey don't want to be told their bloody var names aren't up to spec. I don't see what it matters if you use camel case, pascal case, or no case. I think auditing code should focus on things that actually do matter, like confirming that the code in question is non-malicious, will not significantly decrease NVDA's performance, will not collect and disseminate data without gaining user's permission and so on.
Here is our review policy as it currently stands.
Here are the exact words on our review policy. We don't require anything more than this.
 
I should write an addon and see how far I get. Probably not far as I am not a good coder. It would be interesting what kinds of feedback I would get. If it was stuff like var names, or make sure your indents are the signature four spaces, etc. I'd probably chuckle and hand it over to someone like Jeff's repository. Though if I got feedback like, a better way to go about this is X, Y, and Z, I'd take it more seriously and try to implement it. I do see the necessity of this stuff if you're submitting a PR, or working with Core, because then it does matter. I also see the significance of conforming to the style of a project if you are a collaborator, but an addon is independent, and optional, if someone write a var like thisIsTheKeyThatTheUserPressedAndNowWeWillDoThingsWithIt, I mean I would never do that, but I mean who cares. My vars are like idx and itm, short which is how I like it, and if I think its questionable what it will do I will comment. I am bad about putting comments in code too, and I do realize the importance of that, since some of my work takes place at 3 in the morning right before I go to bed sometimes and I don't remember doing it. I also wish that sometimes I would have written more useful things in the comments rather than strings of expletives. I mostly code in MOO on a MOO and the only other person who will care about it is the owner so, there's that.

As far as safety goes, I do agree, I wouldn't want to be seeing people destroy their machines over malicious addons, but what an you do, I'd definitely throw a disclaimer up on the community site if there isn't one already that says basically that NVAccess is not held responsible for the use of addons, and the use of addons outside this site may be dangerous, etc. There's only so much you can do to protect someone from themselves. And believe me, if they get bitten, they'll learn, I have and I have learned. I wiped out the data across two drives one time while messing around with partitioning on Linux when I didn't know what I was doing. I learned to do it correctly, I was, shall we say, highly motivated.

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 2:14 AM, Vlad Dragomir <vladdragomir1983@...> wrote:
I totally agree with you Brian! Besides, this obsession about safety isn't always a great thing. I'm not saying that we should go out and look for trouble. However, non-official rarely means dangerous. I've been using computers since 2001, and benefited so much from taking risks and trying new things. Of course accidents happen sometimes,no one is 100 % safe from anything. But if you start by believing that every unknown person is a killer, we might as well spend the rest of our lives terrified in a buddhist monastry up in the mountains. And even that might not be safe actually.

I simply felt I should express these thought for those who might want to listen. This way, those who still hesitate can make an informed decision.

Best regards to all of you, both adventurous and afraid of their own shadows! *smile*

Vlad.






--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Re: troubleshooting updates issues

Quentin Christensen
 

What if you download the file manually?

If you would like to download the 2018.2 release candidate, you can get that here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-2rc2-released/
If you would like the latest Next or Master snapshot, you can download here: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/



On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:

I see there is a new update recently put out. I went and tried to update. However, it just beeps and sits there for minutes. Not sure why.





On 6/4/2018 10:58 PM, David Moore wrote:

I just obtained that newest NVDA snap shot that you speak of. I was able to get it from updates, download it, and install it in a couple of minutes. This must be a hit and miss thing depending on what device, area of the world, maybe or something.

I am able to update to the next snapshots just fine!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Governor staten
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 9:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] troubleshooting updates issues

 

Hello:

 

For a while now, I've had issues when updating to new snapshots of NVDA.

It's a hit and miss deal with me.

 

 

Currently, I"m running a fairly new install of Windows 10, 1803. The

version of next I'm running is NVDA next-15159,465f57b2. There is a

newer snapshot available, but, I can't get it through update functionality.

 

 

How can we troubleshoot this and get it fixed permanently? This problem

has persisted for a bit now, a month or two, possibly. Any ideas to help

with this are appreciated.

 

 

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

derek riemer
 

Hi:
The official addons repository doesn't endorse addons, nor does it actually ensure the addons are of high quality, it simply reviews for security, and legality, and makes sure they don't break NVDA in any way which would make it hard to use the addon, I.E. uninstalling it would be hard because it breaks speech, or the addon causes braille to completely fail.


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
The community page is where all official addons are that are fine to use.

Its mainly ease to locate for me more than anything else.

However I have always said things like ifinterpriters and some of the
game interpriter addons should really become part of core by now, I mean
they are about.

THe jgt japanese game addon by ian read at blindaudiogames.com is
another thing, but again, its only for japanese games.

Jeffs nvda addon page contains older addons, alegal synths, etc.

Saying that I wouldn't object to an unofficial addons repo where ideas
and such are handled and where you could fiddle round with addons but
over that who knows.




On 6/5/2018 12:00 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:
> The whole thing comes off a bit snobbish to me. Maybe that isn't the
> intent, but I get this, "Addons on the community site are the best addons
> you'll be able to find for NVDA and any other addons are just not up to
> snuff" sort of vibe. I've gotten addons from other places that rival, if
> not exceed addons from the community page. That being said, I haven't
> really had any problems with addons there, it just seems like NDVA devs and
> addon writers, at least the more well known ones push so hard for people to
> have their addons reviewed for use there. It seems like its an attempt to
> lord it over everyone else how your addons aren't good unless they're up on
> the community page.
>






--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Re: troubleshooting updates issues

 

I see there is a new update recently put out. I went and tried to update. However, it just beeps and sits there for minutes. Not sure why.





On 6/4/2018 10:58 PM, David Moore wrote:

I just obtained that newest NVDA snap shot that you speak of. I was able to get it from updates, download it, and install it in a couple of minutes. This must be a hit and miss thing depending on what device, area of the world, maybe or something.

I am able to update to the next snapshots just fine!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Governor staten
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 9:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] troubleshooting updates issues

 

Hello:

 

For a while now, I've had issues when updating to new snapshots of NVDA.

It's a hit and miss deal with me.

 

 

Currently, I"m running a fairly new install of Windows 10, 1803. The

version of next I'm running is NVDA next-15159,465f57b2. There is a

newer snapshot available, but, I can't get it through update functionality.

 

 

How can we troubleshoot this and get it fixed permanently? This problem

has persisted for a bit now, a month or two, possibly. Any ideas to help

with this are appreciated.