Date   

Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Glenn,

 

Being very new to Linnux, forgive my seemingly silly question, but does that Iso download have Orca built into it then?  Can I really press Windows+S to get speech going on this distro?  If so, it may tempt me to try it.

 

Thanks.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: 22 May 2018 15:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think that many who don’t like Microsoft’s changes will try and find that they like Linux.

I often Use Ubuntu, and Orca is as good of a screenreader as NVDA.  It comes with eSpeak, but I purchased Eloquence for 5 dollars and it is all free.

You can download an ISO image here:

https://ubuntu-mate.org/download/index.html

and you can burn it to DVD or USB and you will be surprised how much it is like Windows.

I’d say it is more like Windows than Windows is becoming.

It uses familiar keystrokes, like alt + tab and alt + F4, and the copy & paste, to mention a few.

It is more secure than Windows for sure.

It comes with Orca and you can start it by pressing Windows + S after it starts to bring up Orca.

I think we need more tools in our tool kit, and if nothing else, you can use it to retrieve your data if Windows won’t boot.

After burning to disk, when it spins up and stops, it will beep, and you only need to press enter, which is for trying it without installing it.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 5:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Joseph, it really seems like Microsoft wishes to totally do away with the conventional Windows Desktop interface?

 

The future Windows OS will rely heavily on Edge to not only surf the web, but launch apps (Universal) and perform common end-user tasks (Word Processing, watching videos, listening to music etc.) No more minimizing Windows. No more switching from Desktop to Start button, to Tasks bar. Microsoft Edge will be the parent node for everything that occurs in Windows.

 

So you will no longer need to close Windows, but "Tabs" to unload/dismiss open programs/sites/projects.

 

Is that what the future holds for Windows users?

 

Looks like they learned from their mistake of removing the conventional Start button in the original Windows 10 release. They're taking a spoon fed approach to getting rid of the Desktop interface this time LOL.

 

On 5/16/2018 1:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Roger and others,

I knew this day would come (smiles to himself)…

The following describes a Windows 10 feature under active development. Thus, what I say below may change without notice, and feature availability will depend on maturity of the feature in question:

 

A set is a grouping of apps into tabs designed to package related activities together. Previously, if you wanted a tabbed app usage experience, you had to use web browsers and certain apps that does support tabs (Notepad++ is one of them). Sets changes this in a major way: you’ll be able to run apps inside Microsoft Edge tabs.

 

When you run an app with Sets on, you’ll see (or feel) several new screen controls that invite you to open a new tab, a list of tabs will be shown, and a button that offers to restore previously opened tabs. The actual app content will be housed inside a Microsoft Edge container window, similar to what happens now when you use certain apps with Windows My People (Version 1709).

 

While an app is running inside a Sets window, press Control+Windows+T to open a new “tab”. This new tab window (from Microsoft Edge) consists of typical new tab content, as well as an embedded Cortana search box that lets you search for things such as another app to open. After searching for things via this search box, press Enter to open an app or a file. The Edge new tab content is replaced by app screen, and a new tab, representing the just opened app, will be listed in tabs list.

 

To move between app tabs, press Control+Windows+Tab or Control+Windows+Shift+Tab. To switch to a particular app tab (provided that you know the app position), press Control+Windows+number row key. To close an app, press Control+Windows+W, and to close everything in one go, press Alt+F4.

 

You may have noticed a familiar pattern: if you’re using a web browser that supports tabbed browsing, the commands to switch between app tabs are nothing more than switching between browser tabs, except that you would add the Windows key to the mix.

 

But that’s not all Sets can do and change:

 

  • In Timeline (Task View in Version 1803 and later), Windows will list previously opened set and offer to restore all app tabs in one go.
  • When you pres Alt+Tab, you’ll be able to cycle through Edge tabs and other windows. This is because, in reality, app tabs are apps running inside Edge container window, so will be treated as switching between apps. You can change it so that Alt+Tab will let you cycle between app windows instead, which means only the focused app in a set will be visible.
  • You can ask Windows to open things you click from one app in another window or a tab. For example, if you click a link in outlook, Windows will either open the link in a new browser window or a new Edge tab.

 

There are practical consequences as a result of using Sets:

 

  • Tabbed File Explorer: you’ll be able to view multiple folders and drives in one sitting.
  • Writing papers and viewing research results: you can have an app tabs set where you have Word or Libreoffice Writer open and a collection of Edge tabs with research data.
  • Updating currency conversion formula in Excel: you can have a workbook open in Excel while using latest currency conversion results from Calculator app and update your spreadsheet accordingly.
  • Testing accessibility of an app while debugging it via Python Console: you’ll be able to open a set where one tab is NVDA’s own Python Console and the other one could be an app you’re actively testing.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 9:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Can you please explain what is meant by "the new feature of sets" and how do I find this and turn it on?  Also, why would I need it on? Does it help with screen reader accessibility? 

Thanks.

Roger










On 5/16/2018 11:00 AM, Gene wrote:

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


 

 


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Ervin, Glenn
 

I think that many who don’t like Microsoft’s changes will try and find that they like Linux.

I often Use Ubuntu, and Orca is as good of a screenreader as NVDA.  It comes with eSpeak, but I purchased Eloquence for 5 dollars and it is all free.

You can download an ISO image here:

https://ubuntu-mate.org/download/index.html

and you can burn it to DVD or USB and you will be surprised how much it is like Windows.

I’d say it is more like Windows than Windows is becoming.

It uses familiar keystrokes, like alt + tab and alt + F4, and the copy & paste, to mention a few.

It is more secure than Windows for sure.

It comes with Orca and you can start it by pressing Windows + S after it starts to bring up Orca.

I think we need more tools in our tool kit, and if nothing else, you can use it to retrieve your data if Windows won’t boot.

After burning to disk, when it spins up and stops, it will beep, and you only need to press enter, which is for trying it without installing it.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 5:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Joseph, it really seems like Microsoft wishes to totally do away with the conventional Windows Desktop interface?

 

The future Windows OS will rely heavily on Edge to not only surf the web, but launch apps (Universal) and perform common end-user tasks (Word Processing, watching videos, listening to music etc.) No more minimizing Windows. No more switching from Desktop to Start button, to Tasks bar. Microsoft Edge will be the parent node for everything that occurs in Windows.

 

So you will no longer need to close Windows, but "Tabs" to unload/dismiss open programs/sites/projects.

 

Is that what the future holds for Windows users?

 

Looks like they learned from their mistake of removing the conventional Start button in the original Windows 10 release. They're taking a spoon fed approach to getting rid of the Desktop interface this time LOL.

 

On 5/16/2018 1:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Roger and others,

I knew this day would come (smiles to himself)…

The following describes a Windows 10 feature under active development. Thus, what I say below may change without notice, and feature availability will depend on maturity of the feature in question:

 

A set is a grouping of apps into tabs designed to package related activities together. Previously, if you wanted a tabbed app usage experience, you had to use web browsers and certain apps that does support tabs (Notepad++ is one of them). Sets changes this in a major way: you’ll be able to run apps inside Microsoft Edge tabs.

 

When you run an app with Sets on, you’ll see (or feel) several new screen controls that invite you to open a new tab, a list of tabs will be shown, and a button that offers to restore previously opened tabs. The actual app content will be housed inside a Microsoft Edge container window, similar to what happens now when you use certain apps with Windows My People (Version 1709).

 

While an app is running inside a Sets window, press Control+Windows+T to open a new “tab”. This new tab window (from Microsoft Edge) consists of typical new tab content, as well as an embedded Cortana search box that lets you search for things such as another app to open. After searching for things via this search box, press Enter to open an app or a file. The Edge new tab content is replaced by app screen, and a new tab, representing the just opened app, will be listed in tabs list.

 

To move between app tabs, press Control+Windows+Tab or Control+Windows+Shift+Tab. To switch to a particular app tab (provided that you know the app position), press Control+Windows+number row key. To close an app, press Control+Windows+W, and to close everything in one go, press Alt+F4.

 

You may have noticed a familiar pattern: if you’re using a web browser that supports tabbed browsing, the commands to switch between app tabs are nothing more than switching between browser tabs, except that you would add the Windows key to the mix.

 

But that’s not all Sets can do and change:

 

  • In Timeline (Task View in Version 1803 and later), Windows will list previously opened set and offer to restore all app tabs in one go.
  • When you pres Alt+Tab, you’ll be able to cycle through Edge tabs and other windows. This is because, in reality, app tabs are apps running inside Edge container window, so will be treated as switching between apps. You can change it so that Alt+Tab will let you cycle between app windows instead, which means only the focused app in a set will be visible.
  • You can ask Windows to open things you click from one app in another window or a tab. For example, if you click a link in outlook, Windows will either open the link in a new browser window or a new Edge tab.

 

There are practical consequences as a result of using Sets:

 

  • Tabbed File Explorer: you’ll be able to view multiple folders and drives in one sitting.
  • Writing papers and viewing research results: you can have an app tabs set where you have Word or Libreoffice Writer open and a collection of Edge tabs with research data.
  • Updating currency conversion formula in Excel: you can have a workbook open in Excel while using latest currency conversion results from Calculator app and update your spreadsheet accordingly.
  • Testing accessibility of an app while debugging it via Python Console: you’ll be able to open a set where one tab is NVDA’s own Python Console and the other one could be an app you’re actively testing.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 9:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Can you please explain what is meant by "the new feature of sets" and how do I find this and turn it on?  Also, why would I need it on? Does it help with screen reader accessibility? 

Thanks.

Roger










On 5/16/2018 11:00 AM, Gene wrote:

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



 

 


Cloning drives

juan gonzalez <jgonzalezh614@...>
 

Good day all!

I am looking for software that works with NVDA to clone a hard disk to a smaller SSD drive. Free would be preferred but if there isn’t any than any works.


Re: Using NVDA with a Twitter Account

Clare Page <clare.page@...>
 

Hi!
As I stated in an earlier message, the loss of streaming on Twitter won't be a deal-breaker for me either.
As for the changes Twitter is planning to make, I admit that I relied on hearsay for what I wrote in my previous tweet explaining how I understood these changes. But now I can send a link with an article which explains them better than I can, in simple language:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/16/17362138/twitter-api-third-party-apps-changes-explained
I hope this clears things up for some people on this list as regards what's going on! I don't think Twitter has ever said that users should pay for it, and, if the above article is correct, that still shouldn't happen. It's true that the way third party clients access Twitter will change, with no streaming and maybe some other limits, but we should still be able to use our current Twitter clients on our PC's with NVDA after 16 August, even if that means waiting longer for tweets than we do now.
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: mardi 22 mai 2018 00:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA with a Twitter Account

I know there are settings in Chicken Nugget and TW Blue to set how often
it makes what they call "API" calls. There is some kind of limit on how
many it can make per hour, but before there was real time streaming, it
used to work pretty well. Think it checked every 5 minutes or maybe more
often than that. If this will be the case again, then I should be able
to live with it.

Roger










On 5/21/2018 4:14 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well it just may mean that I set a schedual in my app to check every
few minutes like email.

There may be limits.

Its no secret that twitter and some other social networks are not
doing so well money wize.

It will suck when it all busts but then it wasn't so long ago where
free internet was the thing.

That ended because it just couldn't be funded at all, the big
companies tried it and it never worked here i new zealand.




On 5/21/2018 10:28 PM, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!
Judging from what I have heard recently, third party client
developers having to pay exorbitant fees to use the new Twitter API
is only part of the story.
I gather that third party Twitter clients should still work after 16
August, but, as the new Twitter API replaces the streaming API we've
had for some years now, not having the new API in third party clients
means that they will no longer be able to stream tweets: in
npractice, this simply means that users will have to wait longer for
tweets to come in, which was the case when I joined Twitter in 2009
anyway, so it's not a big deal-breaker for me.
As for Twitter with NVDA, to get back to the subject of this list, I
do not know, as a Windows 7 user, whether the Windows 10 Twitter UWP
app works well with NVDA, but NVDA users should still be able to use
the currently accessible third party Twitter clients after 16 August,
but without streaming of tweets, if I understand right. So there may
not be a monopoly on Twitter after all.
I hope this reassures anyone on this list who uses third party
accessible Twitter clients at least a bit!
Bye for now!
From Clare
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: lundi 21 mai 2018 10:34
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA with a Twitter Account

It affects all third party apps wherever they run.
its the old API which is deprecated.
The new one to do the same sort of thing has to be paid for by the app
makers and twitter have made the cost so high, I suspect only themselves
will be able to use it and hence make sure you get the promoted
adverts by
default. its what I always said about the one game in town syndrome.
You get
your monopoly then you cut everyone else out and coin in the dosh.
Cynical? me?
:-)

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Mehler" <dave.mehler@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA with a Twitter Account


Hello,

Does this effect android apps as well? So, August it sounds like your
saying it's the win10 app or nothing on that platform or the web site?

Thanks.
Dave.


On 5/20/18, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
Hi. Just wanted to let you all know if you didn’t know already as of
the
middle of August we will no longer have access to the 3rd party apps
that
work with Twitter such as TW Blue etc. So if you are on WIN 10 use the
newly
improved Twitter UWP app which is accessible. They are changing
their API
for 3rd party access so if you want to complain to Twitter do so in the
appropriate places.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marcia Yale
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA with a Twitter Account

I use Chicken Nugget on my Windows machine and it works great with
NVDA.
Usually the follow/unfollow commands are on the user details or profile
screen, so find that screen in TW Blue and you should be able to
find the
buttons for following.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Rich
De
Steno
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:51 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Using NVDA with a Twitter Account

What is the easiest way to "follow" and "unfollow" sources with
NVDA. The
official Twitter web site merely advises to "hover over the person with
your
mouse", offering no keyboard option. I am using TW Blue and find no
keyboard method of "following" or "unfollowing" a source. Even the
applications key fails to offer such an option.

--
Rich De Steno



















Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi David and Joseph,

 

Yes, If I type it correctly, as David states, then my Explorer.exe functionality comes back.

 

So it has to be a UIA thing.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Reynolds
Sent: 21 May 2018 21:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Joseph,

You made a typo, it should say:

UIAHandler.terminate()

 

Cheers,

 

David.

 

On 21-May-18 9:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

For those experiencing this problem, can you try the following for me please:

  1. Press Control+NVDA+Z to open Python Console
  2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

 

import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.temrinate()

 

Then press Escape, and try navigating around File Explorer. Note that this will turn off UIA support completely, so it’ll mean Start menu and other UIA controls won’t work.

If you find that this helps NVDA respond better, then we can rule out screen resolution and other things that has nothing to do with UI Automation and other causes. If this procedure does not help, then we need to look into possibly universal apps taking up resources, unresponsive drivers, UIA getting stuck somewhere and what not.

After you experiment with this, either restart NvDA or restore UIA support via Python Console. To do this via python Console:

  1. Press Control+NvDA+Z to open Python Console.
  2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

 

import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.initialize()

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Unlike Steve, I can get my lists to read after sitting here for a minute or two or just having one window in focus and not alt tabbing to another one for a few minutes. It's almost like something has to catch up with what I'm doing, but it will--eventually--do what it's supposed to. I never came to the list with this, though, because I just figured it was something with NVDA that would likely be corrected in another update because it just recently started doing this and it's not so disruptive that it's rendering my use of the computer or File Explorer completely impossible. Restarting NVDA also corrects it, and usually for the rest of the day, it's fine. It sounds like Steve's having a much worse time with it than I am. Also, closing and reopening the window you're trying to read lists from helps. I've done that as well. Maximizing the window will read you the list item in focus, but if it isn't ready to settle down and behave yet, you have to keep maximizing the window as you arrow down so it'll read you the list item. It does move as you arrow down, though; it will move to the next item; it just won't read you what it is until you maximize the screen. It's really bad with Dropbox. It's worse with Dropbox than it is with File Explorer. When I copy and paste something or move something out of a Dropbox folder, I'd better get up and take a short, two or three-minute break because it's going to take that long to behave again, and then, once I cloes the Dropbox window, all is well. I do find, though, that the more windows I have open, the worse it is, so now I just try to work with two or three open at a time, and if I can, I close one if I want to open another one. that's probably just good, practical use of the computer anyway; you don't want to have too many windows open or it'll start acting funky anyway. If it gets worse, I'll just reinstall NVDA

Annette

 

On 5/21/2018 1:15 PM, Gene wrote:

I agree.  While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt that most of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers, such as the resolution.  But the reason I'm doubtful that any settings changes will help is because this is a new problem after the latest Windows update.  It sounds to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable. 

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've
disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause
display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if
the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain
sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The
resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example,
is 1920x1080.

Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something
may have gotten corrupted here.

On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
>
> I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I
> have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
> Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In
> particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or
> something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
> First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.
>
>
> Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
> unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
> sluggishness and odd behavior.
>
>
> Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under the
> panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution
> sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0
> degrees is checked.
>
> Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.
>
>
> Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above
> and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.
>
>
>
> On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
>> NVDA to read the list now.
>>
>> NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
>> got worse with this build.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Annette Moore
>> *Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>> I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
>> either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
>> sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides
>> to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA
>> thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I
>> have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and
>> then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor
>> doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA
>> isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say,
>> two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working
>> fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to
>> misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen
>> readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and
>> go with it.
>>
>> Annette
>>
>> On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>>     So I wonder what is the determining factor then?
>>
>>     All the best
>>
>>
>>     Steve
>>
>>     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>     *Greg Wocher
>>     *Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
>>     not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
>>     the 1803 Windows update.
>>
>>     Greg Wocher
>>
>>         On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>         <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>         I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
>>         then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.
>>
>>         All the best
>>
>>
>>         Steve
>>
>>         *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
>>         *Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
>>         *To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
>> 1803
>>
>>         I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
>>         explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
>>         issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
>>         a broken app.
>>
>>
>>
>>             On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
>>             <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>             Hi,
>>
>>             I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
>>             reading for me.
>>
>>             It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
>>             to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
>>             is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>             JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>             Any thoughts?
>>
>>             Thanks.
>>
>>             All the best
>>
>>             Steve
>>
>>             --
>>
>>             Computer Room Services
>>
>>             77 Exeter Close
>>
>>             Stevenage
>>
>>             Hertfordshire
>>
>>             SG1 4PW
>>
>>             Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>>             Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>>             Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>>             Email:steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
>>
>>             Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk <http://www.comproom.co.uk/>
>>
>>
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com



 

 


Re: Espeak UK English words

Dejan Ristic
 

That's what I do, either. There's no other way than to do it that way. I've expressed myself on the list as to the pronounciation corrections, but, however, it's been all the same. I suppose that there's no solution found for users to update their own corrections so that they're placed on a central server where any NVDA user can pick an update. I may, for example, offer you my corrections, but, you will be obliged to fill them in the NVDA dictionary so that you fill in both the pattern and replacement fields, which is a time-consuming job. That's why it is so now, especially if I say that I've filled in 184 corrections.

On 21/05/2018 17:15, Steve Nutt wrote:
You can fix it yourself though surely? Just replace Newsletter with News Letter in the NVDA dictionary.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 21 May 2018 16:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Espeak UK English words

Hmm, hence my question. Its a pity these sort of fixes cannot be imported away from the other parts of the programme . For sounding like fur Newsletter sounding like newslitter and several others were fixed some months back for the test versions.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Espeak UK English words


NVDA updated to eSpeak 1.49.2 in NVDA 2017.4.

eSpeak 1.49.3 is in development but not yet released. So they may have
addressed some of the issues but they haven't released them yet :)

Quentin.

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Hi I have been told that most of the pronunciations that were wrong like
for and newsletter etc, have been fixed some time ago in the project, but
from what I can tell in the latest nvda master its still not been
transferred over.
What is the issue, is Espeak NG now in some other troubles and if so,
cannot somebody import the fixes and leave the main guts the same for us?
I have gone back to the old Espeak as in speech player in Espeak again
today as its hard to understand some words.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







Re: Read Feeds add-on

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

Add-ons list? Can you share the subscription details? I'd love to join.


On 5/20/2018 1:23 PM, Lino Morales wrote:

I posed this question on the add-ons list and I’ll ask it here. Question is what’s so special about the Read Feeds add-oo? Both Firefox and IE 11 have RSS capabalities. So what say you? wh

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Ah, that would be why I got the error.  Especially as he said type it exactly as shown. <Smile>.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Reynolds
Sent: 21 May 2018 21:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Joseph,

You made a typo, it should say:

UIAHandler.terminate()

 

Cheers,

 

David.

 

On 21-May-18 9:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

For those experiencing this problem, can you try the following for me please:

  1. Press Control+NVDA+Z to open Python Console
  2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

 

import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.temrinate()

 

Then press Escape, and try navigating around File Explorer. Note that this will turn off UIA support completely, so it’ll mean Start menu and other UIA controls won’t work.

If you find that this helps NVDA respond better, then we can rule out screen resolution and other things that has nothing to do with UI Automation and other causes. If this procedure does not help, then we need to look into possibly universal apps taking up resources, unresponsive drivers, UIA getting stuck somewhere and what not.

After you experiment with this, either restart NvDA or restore UIA support via Python Console. To do this via python Console:

  1. Press Control+NvDA+Z to open Python Console.
  2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

 

import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.initialize()

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Unlike Steve, I can get my lists to read after sitting here for a minute or two or just having one window in focus and not alt tabbing to another one for a few minutes. It's almost like something has to catch up with what I'm doing, but it will--eventually--do what it's supposed to. I never came to the list with this, though, because I just figured it was something with NVDA that would likely be corrected in another update because it just recently started doing this and it's not so disruptive that it's rendering my use of the computer or File Explorer completely impossible. Restarting NVDA also corrects it, and usually for the rest of the day, it's fine. It sounds like Steve's having a much worse time with it than I am. Also, closing and reopening the window you're trying to read lists from helps. I've done that as well. Maximizing the window will read you the list item in focus, but if it isn't ready to settle down and behave yet, you have to keep maximizing the window as you arrow down so it'll read you the list item. It does move as you arrow down, though; it will move to the next item; it just won't read you what it is until you maximize the screen. It's really bad with Dropbox. It's worse with Dropbox than it is with File Explorer. When I copy and paste something or move something out of a Dropbox folder, I'd better get up and take a short, two or three-minute break because it's going to take that long to behave again, and then, once I cloes the Dropbox window, all is well. I do find, though, that the more windows I have open, the worse it is, so now I just try to work with two or three open at a time, and if I can, I close one if I want to open another one. that's probably just good, practical use of the computer anyway; you don't want to have too many windows open or it'll start acting funky anyway. If it gets worse, I'll just reinstall NVDA

Annette

 

On 5/21/2018 1:15 PM, Gene wrote:

I agree.  While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt that most of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers, such as the resolution.  But the reason I'm doubtful that any settings changes will help is because this is a new problem after the latest Windows update.  It sounds to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable. 

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've
disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause
display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if
the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain
sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The
resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example,
is 1920x1080.

Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something
may have gotten corrupted here.

On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
>
> I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I
> have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
> Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In
> particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or
> something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
> First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.
>
>
> Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
> unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
> sluggishness and odd behavior.
>
>
> Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under the
> panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution
> sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0
> degrees is checked.
>
> Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.
>
>
> Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above
> and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.
>
>
>
> On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
>> NVDA to read the list now.
>>
>> NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
>> got worse with this build.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Annette Moore
>> *Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>> I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
>> either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
>> sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides
>> to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA
>> thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I
>> have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and
>> then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor
>> doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA
>> isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say,
>> two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working
>> fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to
>> misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen
>> readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and
>> go with it.
>>
>> Annette
>>
>> On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>>     So I wonder what is the determining factor then?
>>
>>     All the best
>>
>>
>>     Steve
>>
>>     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>     *Greg Wocher
>>     *Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
>>     not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
>>     the 1803 Windows update.
>>
>>     Greg Wocher
>>
>>         On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>         <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>         I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
>>         then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.
>>
>>         All the best
>>
>>
>>         Steve
>>
>>         *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
>>         *Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
>>         *To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
>> 1803
>>
>>         I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
>>         explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
>>         issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
>>         a broken app.
>>
>>
>>
>>             On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
>>             <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>             Hi,
>>
>>             I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
>>             reading for me.
>>
>>             It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
>>             to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
>>             is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>             JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>             Any thoughts?
>>
>>             Thanks.
>>
>>             All the best
>>
>>             Steve
>>
>>             --
>>
>>             Computer Room Services
>>
>>             77 Exeter Close
>>
>>             Stevenage
>>
>>             Hertfordshire
>>
>>             SG1 4PW
>>
>>             Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>>             Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>>             Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>>             Email:steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
>>
>>             Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk <http://www.comproom.co.uk/>
>>
>>
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com



 

 


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Josephh,

 

The second line:-

 

UIAHandler.temrinate()

 

Gives me an error, which I couldn’t find an easy way to capture, but it was in a file module.

 

It didn’t help either, but it may not have been disabled correctly.

 

The import line went without an error.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 21 May 2018 21:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi all,

For those experiencing this problem, can you try the following for me please:

  1. Press Control+NVDA+Z to open Python Console
  2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

 

import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.temrinate()

 

Then press Escape, and try navigating around File Explorer. Note that this will turn off UIA support completely, so it’ll mean Start menu and other UIA controls won’t work.

If you find that this helps NVDA respond better, then we can rule out screen resolution and other things that has nothing to do with UI Automation and other causes. If this procedure does not help, then we need to look into possibly universal apps taking up resources, unresponsive drivers, UIA getting stuck somewhere and what not.

After you experiment with this, either restart NvDA or restore UIA support via Python Console. To do this via python Console:

  1. Press Control+NvDA+Z to open Python Console.
  2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

 

import UIAHandler

UIAHandler.initialize()

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Unlike Steve, I can get my lists to read after sitting here for a minute or two or just having one window in focus and not alt tabbing to another one for a few minutes. It's almost like something has to catch up with what I'm doing, but it will--eventually--do what it's supposed to. I never came to the list with this, though, because I just figured it was something with NVDA that would likely be corrected in another update because it just recently started doing this and it's not so disruptive that it's rendering my use of the computer or File Explorer completely impossible. Restarting NVDA also corrects it, and usually for the rest of the day, it's fine. It sounds like Steve's having a much worse time with it than I am. Also, closing and reopening the window you're trying to read lists from helps. I've done that as well. Maximizing the window will read you the list item in focus, but if it isn't ready to settle down and behave yet, you have to keep maximizing the window as you arrow down so it'll read you the list item. It does move as you arrow down, though; it will move to the next item; it just won't read you what it is until you maximize the screen. It's really bad with Dropbox. It's worse with Dropbox than it is with File Explorer. When I copy and paste something or move something out of a Dropbox folder, I'd better get up and take a short, two or three-minute break because it's going to take that long to behave again, and then, once I cloes the Dropbox window, all is well. I do find, though, that the more windows I have open, the worse it is, so now I just try to work with two or three open at a time, and if I can, I close one if I want to open another one. that's probably just good, practical use of the computer anyway; you don't want to have too many windows open or it'll start acting funky anyway. If it gets worse, I'll just reinstall NVDA

Annette

 

On 5/21/2018 1:15 PM, Gene wrote:

I agree.  While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt that most of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers, such as the resolution.  But the reason I'm doubtful that any settings changes will help is because this is a new problem after the latest Windows update.  It sounds to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable. 

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've
disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause
display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if
the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain
sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The
resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example,
is 1920x1080.

Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something
may have gotten corrupted here.

On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
>
> I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I
> have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
> Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In
> particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or
> something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
> First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.
>
>
> Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
> unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
> sluggishness and odd behavior.
>
>
> Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under the
> panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution
> sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0
> degrees is checked.
>
> Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.
>
>
> Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above
> and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.
>
>
>
> On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
>> NVDA to read the list now.
>>
>> NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
>> got worse with this build.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Annette Moore
>> *Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>> I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
>> either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
>> sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides
>> to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA
>> thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I
>> have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and
>> then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor
>> doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA
>> isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say,
>> two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working
>> fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to
>> misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen
>> readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and
>> go with it.
>>
>> Annette
>>
>> On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>>     So I wonder what is the determining factor then?
>>
>>     All the best
>>
>>
>>     Steve
>>
>>     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>     *Greg Wocher
>>     *Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
>>     not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
>>     the 1803 Windows update.
>>
>>     Greg Wocher
>>
>>         On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>         <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>         I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
>>         then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.
>>
>>         All the best
>>
>>
>>         Steve
>>
>>         *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
>>         *Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
>>         *To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
>> 1803
>>
>>         I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
>>         explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
>>         issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
>>         a broken app.
>>
>>
>>
>>             On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
>>             <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>             Hi,
>>
>>             I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
>>             reading for me.
>>
>>             It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
>>             to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
>>             is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>             JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>             Any thoughts?
>>
>>             Thanks.
>>
>>             All the best
>>
>>             Steve
>>
>>             --
>>
>>             Computer Room Services
>>
>>             77 Exeter Close
>>
>>             Stevenage
>>
>>             Hertfordshire
>>
>>             SG1 4PW
>>
>>             Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>>             Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>>             Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>>             Email:steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
>>
>>             Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk <http://www.comproom.co.uk/>
>>
>>
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com

 


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Annette,

 

No, I can sit here for five minuts, and the list will never read.  It will read the first item it lands on when you open File Explorer, but that’s all she wrote.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: 21 May 2018 20:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Unlike Steve, I can get my lists to read after sitting here for a minute or two or just having one window in focus and not alt tabbing to another one for a few minutes. It's almost like something has to catch up with what I'm doing, but it will--eventually--do what it's supposed to. I never came to the list with this, though, because I just figured it was something with NVDA that would likely be corrected in another update because it just recently started doing this and it's not so disruptive that it's rendering my use of the computer or File Explorer completely impossible. Restarting NVDA also corrects it, and usually for the rest of the day, it's fine. It sounds like Steve's having a much worse time with it than I am. Also, closing and reopening the window you're trying to read lists from helps. I've done that as well. Maximizing the window will read you the list item in focus, but if it isn't ready to settle down and behave yet, you have to keep maximizing the window as you arrow down so it'll read you the list item. It does move as you arrow down, though; it will move to the next item; it just won't read you what it is until you maximize the screen. It's really bad with Dropbox. It's worse with Dropbox than it is with File Explorer. When I copy and paste something or move something out of a Dropbox folder, I'd better get up and take a short, two or three-minute break because it's going to take that long to behave again, and then, once I cloes the Dropbox window, all is well. I do find, though, that the more windows I have open, the worse it is, so now I just try to work with two or three open at a time, and if I can, I close one if I want to open another one. that's probably just good, practical use of the computer anyway; you don't want to have too many windows open or it'll start acting funky anyway. If it gets worse, I'll just reinstall NVDA

Annette

 

On 5/21/2018 1:15 PM, Gene wrote:

I agree.  While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt that most of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers, such as the resolution.  But the reason I'm doubtful that any settings changes will help is because this is a new problem after the latest Windows update.  It sounds to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable. 

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've
disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause
display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if
the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain
sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The
resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example,
is 1920x1080.

Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something
may have gotten corrupted here.

On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
>
> I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I
> have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
> Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In
> particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or
> something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
> First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.
>
>
> Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
> unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
> sluggishness and odd behavior.
>
>
> Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under the
> panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution
> sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0
> degrees is checked.
>
> Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.
>
>
> Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above
> and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.
>
>
>
> On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
>> NVDA to read the list now.
>>
>> NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
>> got worse with this build.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Annette Moore
>> *Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>> I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
>> either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
>> sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides
>> to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA
>> thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I
>> have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and
>> then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor
>> doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA
>> isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say,
>> two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working
>> fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to
>> misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen
>> readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and
>> go with it.
>>
>> Annette
>>
>> On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>>     So I wonder what is the determining factor then?
>>
>>     All the best
>>
>>
>>     Steve
>>
>>     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>     *Greg Wocher
>>     *Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
>>     not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
>>     the 1803 Windows update.
>>
>>     Greg Wocher
>>
>>         On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>         <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>         I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
>>         then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.
>>
>>         All the best
>>
>>
>>         Steve
>>
>>         *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
>>         *Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
>>         *To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
>> 1803
>>
>>         I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
>>         explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
>>         issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
>>         a broken app.
>>
>>
>>
>>             On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
>>             <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>             Hi,
>>
>>             I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
>>             reading for me.
>>
>>             It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
>>             to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
>>             is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>             JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>             Any thoughts?
>>
>>             Thanks.
>>
>>             All the best
>>
>>             Steve
>>
>>             --
>>
>>             Computer Room Services
>>
>>             77 Exeter Close
>>
>>             Stevenage
>>
>>             Hertfordshire
>>
>>             SG1 4PW
>>
>>             Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>>             Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>>             Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>>             Email:steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
>>
>>             Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk <http://www.comproom.co.uk/>
>>
>>
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


 


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jean,

 

It is, I believe, a UIA problem, since Narrator suffers the same problem as well, but JAWS doesn’t.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 21 May 2018 19:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I agree.  While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt that most of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers, such as the resolution.  But the reason I'm doubtful that any settings changes will help is because this is a new problem after the latest Windows update.  It sounds to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable. 

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've
disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause
display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if
the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain
sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The
resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example,
is 1920x1080.

Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something
may have gotten corrupted here.

On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
>
> I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I
> have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
> Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In
> particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or
> something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
> First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.
>
>
> Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
> unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
> sluggishness and odd behavior.
>
>
> Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under the
> panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution
> sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0
> degrees is checked.
>
> Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.
>
>
> Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above
> and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.
>
>
>
> On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
>> NVDA to read the list now.
>>
>> NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
>> got worse with this build.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Annette Moore
>> *Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>> I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
>> either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
>> sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides
>> to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA
>> thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I
>> have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and
>> then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor
>> doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA
>> isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say,
>> two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working
>> fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to
>> misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen
>> readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and
>> go with it.
>>
>> Annette
>>
>> On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>>     So I wonder what is the determining factor then?
>>
>>     All the best
>>
>>
>>     Steve
>>
>>     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>     *Greg Wocher
>>     *Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
>>     not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
>>     the 1803 Windows update.
>>
>>     Greg Wocher
>>
>>         On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>         <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>         I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
>>         then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.
>>
>>         All the best
>>
>>
>>         Steve
>>
>>         *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
>>         *Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
>>         *To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
>> 1803
>>
>>         I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
>>         explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
>>         issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
>>         a broken app.
>>
>>
>>
>>             On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
>>             <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>
>>             Hi,
>>
>>             I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
>>             reading for me.
>>
>>             It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
>>             to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
>>             is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>             JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>             Any thoughts?
>>
>>             Thanks.
>>
>>             All the best
>>
>>             Steve
>>
>>             --
>>
>>             Computer Room Services
>>
>>             77 Exeter Close
>>
>>             Stevenage
>>
>>             Hertfordshire
>>
>>             SG1 4PW
>>
>>             Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>>             Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>>             Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>>             Email:steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
>>
>>             Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk <http://www.comproom.co.uk/>
>>
>>
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com



Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jackie,

I also disagree with some of Ron's settings, they are personal settings and shouldn't affect the screen reader.

No, I haven't tried uninstalling yet, that's my next job.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: 21 May 2018 19:11
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example, is 1920x1080.

Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something may have gotten corrupted here.

On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Steve,


I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer. I
have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers. In
particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid
or something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.


Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
unchecked. If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
sluggishness and odd behavior.


Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under
the panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the
resolution sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu,
rotate to 0 degrees is checked.

Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.


Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions
above and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.



On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
NVDA to read the list now.

NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
got worse with this build.

All the best

Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Annette Moore
*Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it
decides to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be
an NVDA thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access
at all. I have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to
act up, and then I have trouble going through list items. It's like
the cursor doesn't want to move through them but it actually does;
it's just NVDA isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have
more than, say, two or three windows open and I close one of them, it
starts working fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when
it's going to misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me
switch screen readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a
future update and go with it.

Annette

On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

So I wonder what is the determining factor then?

All the best


Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Greg Wocher
*Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
1803

Hello,

I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
the 1803 Windows update.

Greg Wocher

On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
<mailto:steve@...>> wrote:

I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
then? That’s the bug I was reporting.

All the best


Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
*Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
*To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
1803

I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
a broken app.



On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
<steve@... <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:

Hi,

I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
reading for me.

It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
to be reading. For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
is completely silent for me now.

JAWS is reading lists quite happily.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

All the best

Steve

--

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Stevenage

Hertfordshire

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Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email:steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk
<http://www.comproom.co.uk/>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

I look forward to the day NVDA will allow the re-classing of Windows controls it improperly classes. I still rely on it more then I do JAWS at this point even with that shortcoming.


On 5/17/2018 6:56 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Jim,

 

At the moment, for me, JAWS is way above NVDA for productivity.  NVDA, as I have always stated, is superb on the web.  But for programs that use a less custom interface, or don’t use UIA, then forget it.

 

NVDA still wouldn’t cut it for me in a work environment, until it is more configurable.

 

Although we use it much less, we still need to be able to access the DOM using video hooks I believe, if for no other reason than to give us the ability in the user interface to reclass custom controls.  NVDA still can’t do that, and so remains less configurable to me, than JAWS.

 

I will personally rejoice when NVDA does most of my work day tasks for me.

 

Object navigation is not always as efficient as live mouse navigation, and Window-Eyes is still best at that, though the JAWS and touch cursors work well too, sometimes.

 

UIA though is a double edged sword.  If there is no fallback method to access the screen, and you get a problem where something as basic as file explorer can’t be used with your screen reader, then you really can’t do much.

 

This is why I still rank NVDA as excellent for a home user, who just has a few tasks to carry out, and something more configurable like JAWS when you really need to get down and dirty with non-custom programs.

 

This is just my personal view, and I am in no way bashing the developers of NVDA, who do an excellent job.

 

Maybe a video hook addon for the future? <Smile>.

 

I was half joking then, as screen scraping is becoming less used in favour of UIA.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of The Gamages via Groups.Io
Sent: 17 May 2018 11:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hello,

 

Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.

 

I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.

 

To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

Joseph, it really seems like Microsoft wishes to totally do away with the conventional Windows Desktop interface?


The future Windows OS will rely heavily on Edge to not only surf the web, but launch apps (Universal) and perform common end-user tasks (Word Processing, watching videos, listening to music etc.) No more minimizing Windows. No more switching from Desktop to Start button, to Tasks bar. Microsoft Edge will be the parent node for everything that occurs in Windows.


So you will no longer need to close Windows, but "Tabs" to unload/dismiss open programs/sites/projects.


Is that what the future holds for Windows users?


Looks like they learned from their mistake of removing the conventional Start button in the original Windows 10 release. They're taking a spoon fed approach to getting rid of the Desktop interface this time LOL.


On 5/16/2018 1:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Roger and others,

I knew this day would come (smiles to himself)…

The following describes a Windows 10 feature under active development. Thus, what I say below may change without notice, and feature availability will depend on maturity of the feature in question:

 

A set is a grouping of apps into tabs designed to package related activities together. Previously, if you wanted a tabbed app usage experience, you had to use web browsers and certain apps that does support tabs (Notepad++ is one of them). Sets changes this in a major way: you’ll be able to run apps inside Microsoft Edge tabs.

 

When you run an app with Sets on, you’ll see (or feel) several new screen controls that invite you to open a new tab, a list of tabs will be shown, and a button that offers to restore previously opened tabs. The actual app content will be housed inside a Microsoft Edge container window, similar to what happens now when you use certain apps with Windows My People (Version 1709).

 

While an app is running inside a Sets window, press Control+Windows+T to open a new “tab”. This new tab window (from Microsoft Edge) consists of typical new tab content, as well as an embedded Cortana search box that lets you search for things such as another app to open. After searching for things via this search box, press Enter to open an app or a file. The Edge new tab content is replaced by app screen, and a new tab, representing the just opened app, will be listed in tabs list.

 

To move between app tabs, press Control+Windows+Tab or Control+Windows+Shift+Tab. To switch to a particular app tab (provided that you know the app position), press Control+Windows+number row key. To close an app, press Control+Windows+W, and to close everything in one go, press Alt+F4.

 

You may have noticed a familiar pattern: if you’re using a web browser that supports tabbed browsing, the commands to switch between app tabs are nothing more than switching between browser tabs, except that you would add the Windows key to the mix.

 

But that’s not all Sets can do and change:

 

  • In Timeline (Task View in Version 1803 and later), Windows will list previously opened set and offer to restore all app tabs in one go.
  • When you pres Alt+Tab, you’ll be able to cycle through Edge tabs and other windows. This is because, in reality, app tabs are apps running inside Edge container window, so will be treated as switching between apps. You can change it so that Alt+Tab will let you cycle between app windows instead, which means only the focused app in a set will be visible.
  • You can ask Windows to open things you click from one app in another window or a tab. For example, if you click a link in outlook, Windows will either open the link in a new browser window or a new Edge tab.

 

There are practical consequences as a result of using Sets:

 

  • Tabbed File Explorer: you’ll be able to view multiple folders and drives in one sitting.
  • Writing papers and viewing research results: you can have an app tabs set where you have Word or Libreoffice Writer open and a collection of Edge tabs with research data.
  • Updating currency conversion formula in Excel: you can have a workbook open in Excel while using latest currency conversion results from Calculator app and update your spreadsheet accordingly.
  • Testing accessibility of an app while debugging it via Python Console: you’ll be able to open a set where one tab is NVDA’s own Python Console and the other one could be an app you’re actively testing.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 9:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Can you please explain what is meant by "the new feature of sets" and how do I find this and turn it on?  Also, why would I need it on? Does it help with screen reader accessibility? 

Thanks.

Roger










On 5/16/2018 11:00 AM, Gene wrote:

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


 



Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

It doesn’t unfortunately.

 

But one shouldn’t have to jump through all these hoops for NVDA, JAWS is quite happily reading for me.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: 21 May 2018 18:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi Steve,

 

I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.  First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.

 

Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in sluggishness and odd behavior.

 

Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus.  Under the panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0 degrees is checked. 

Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.

 

Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.

 

 

On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get NVDA to read the list now.

 

NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s got worse with this build.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: 20 May 2018 20:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky. either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say, two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and go with it.

Annette

 

On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

So I wonder what is the determining factor then?

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Greg Wocher
Sent: 20 May 2018 17:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hello,

I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using the 1803 Windows update. 

 

Greg Wocher

 

On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...> wrote:

 

I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 18 May 2018 21:28
To: nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably a broken app.

 

On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...> wrote:

 

Hi,

 

I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.

 

It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.

 

JAWS is reading lists quite happily.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@...

 

 

 

 



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: The "Modern" NVDA Sounds

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Dienstag, 22. Mai 2018 08:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] The "Modern" NVDA Sounds

There were a couple of variations on these at the time. Not sure if I still have them here, but if nobody else can lay their hands on them and shove them in dropbox, I'll have a poke about. Incidentally you cannot attach on this list, its either got to be a direct email or a dropbox link for ease of use.
Note that every time nvda gets updated it will overwrite the sounds, so you need to keep the new ones handy.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noah Carver via Groups.Io" <ntclists=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 1:12 AM
Subject: [nvda] The "Modern" NVDA Sounds


Hi Folks,


Can anyone post the sounds that were in NVDA next snapshots back in 2017?
I much preferred these sounds to the ones packaged with NVDA, and would
like to replace them with the "modern" ones.


Any help would be appreciated.


Noah




Re: Twitter clients. Re: Read Feeds add-on

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I go back a long way. Indeed back to the days of Prestel, which I used to edit on under the Micronet system.
So many services were not free. The way it worked was by pages with red cost amounts in one corner with a warning prior to going to one.
of course as you were subscribed to the system, they could take the extra money and pass it on to the page owners.
Telesoftware was one thing, but also some closed user groups and online games also incurred charges either on a timed basis or cost per page.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Twitter clients. Re: Read Feeds add-on


I don't know as a user if I would want to pay to post tweats or own facebook.

As a business sure maybe that would be fine.

But as a user I don't know.

I don't use either service enough to concidder paying for it.

I don't use wordpress enough to warrent me paying for it.




On 5/22/2018 4:33 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
Also, we may have more confidentiality with a paid service. FaceBook may eventually choose this model because when we have a free service, the only method of the company making money is allowing data mining.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 11:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Twitter clients. Re: Read Feeds add-on

This link:
https://blog.twitter.com/developer/en_us/topics/tools/2018/discontinuing-support-for-twitter-kit-sdk.html
talks about why they are discontinuing support for one of their SDK
tools. It will still continue to work, it's just hat twitter themselves
won't be contributing to it anymore.
On the link:
https://developer.twitter.com/en/pricing.html
you can get details on exactly what they're charging for, and how much,
though it's not laid out in a straightforward method, you need to select
the various features, and their level to see what the fees are.
It actually looks like twitter has been targeting fee based services for
quite some time now. As far back as 2010, twitter was charging for
access to historical data for researchers, commercial developers who
wanted back history, and the like, so this isn't anything new. Last
march, twitter had run a series of surveys, asking if users would be
willing to pay for different components of the twitter landscape. I
didn't find anything breaking down what those responses were, but it
isn't surprising that the questions were being asked. After all, every
company has a need to make money, or they won't remain a company for
very long.
But, as far as the impending charging for access goes:
https://www.xda-developers.com/twitter-new-api-third-party-clients/
seems to indicate that the fees for a standard twitter client aren't
trivial, and seems to contradict what I read earlier about clients
simply not being able to get realtime updates. It appears more digging
is necessary.
Apparently, twitter is trying to herd users into using official twitter
clients only, (or the web site), but as of now, I can't say whether this
is true or not, since there seems to be more knee jerk reactions to the
announcement than actual facts. I suspect truthful information will
slowly filter it's way into the general populous over the next few
months, then we'll know for sure what the deal is, but for now, just
keep using the client of your choice, and wait until it breaks ... (if
it breaks) ... before spreading possibly untrue information about the
change.







Re: The "Modern" NVDA Sounds

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

There were a couple of variations on these at the time. Not sure if I still have them here, but if nobody else can lay their hands on them and shove them in dropbox, I'll have a poke about. Incidentally you cannot attach on this list, its either got to be a direct email or a dropbox link for ease of use.
Note that every time nvda gets updated it will overwrite the sounds, so you need to keep the new ones handy.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Noah Carver via Groups.Io" <ntclists=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 1:12 AM
Subject: [nvda] The "Modern" NVDA Sounds


Hi Folks,


Can anyone post the sounds that were in NVDA next snapshots back in 2017? I much preferred these sounds to the ones packaged with NVDA, and would like to replace them with the "modern" ones.


Any help would be appreciated.


Noah



Re: Twitter clients. Re: Read Feeds add-on

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

This is th4e second time this has occurred, of course, they did say they would delay it for consultation but really the blind are the smallest part of it. Its everyone else they want to come back to their web site or their own app. Its very similar to what the BBC did with the tv I player some times ago, removing all the metadata needed to construct the off browser experience, so the companies making third party access tools had to resort to screen scraping which as you can imagine besides being slower is also going to mean a new version every time the web site is changed in any way.
As far as I can tell from what the various twitter campaigns say is that Twitter never intended the api to be use to avoid paid for adverts and content, as this is how they keep the platform free for the public.
They have mooted a paid for service with no adverts, but also from reading between the lines they can detect ad blockers and won't let you use the site with one turned on, if not now but eventually.
Looking at it selfishly from their revenue point of view, I suppose they have to make money somehow and with the possibility that in the states the loss of net neutrality possibly meaning sites be paying carriers to not delay their packets, they are just minding their backs. as always the undesired result of poorer access for disabled is just collateral damage.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Twitter clients. Re: Read Feeds add-on


Well someone on one of my forums has allready got one of those change pititions to twitter to stop breaking it for the blind.

Since I know these things are only feel good things and non binding I am unsure what the point is.

I did sign it but then I sign everything but bar all the extra spam I doubt things will change.





On 5/22/2018 4:11 AM, Travis Siegel wrote:
This link:
https://blog.twitter.com/developer/en_us/topics/tools/2018/discontinuing-support-for-twitter-kit-sdk.html
talks about why they are discontinuing support for one of their SDK tools. It will still continue to work, it's just hat twitter themselves won't be contributing to it anymore.
On the link:
https://developer.twitter.com/en/pricing.html
you can get details on exactly what they're charging for, and how much, though it's not laid out in a straightforward method, you need to select the various features, and their level to see what the fees are.
It actually looks like twitter has been targeting fee based services for quite some time now. As far back as 2010, twitter was charging for access to historical data for researchers, commercial developers who wanted back history, and the like, so this isn't anything new. Last march, twitter had run a series of surveys, asking if users would be willing to pay for different components of the twitter landscape. I didn't find anything breaking down what those responses were, but it isn't surprising that the questions were being asked. After all, every company has a need to make money, or they won't remain a company for very long.
But, as far as the impending charging for access goes:
https://www.xda-developers.com/twitter-new-api-third-party-clients/
seems to indicate that the fees for a standard twitter client aren't trivial, and seems to contradict what I read earlier about clients simply not being able to get realtime updates. It appears more digging is necessary.
Apparently, twitter is trying to herd users into using official twitter clients only, (or the web site), but as of now, I can't say whether this is true or not, since there seems to be more knee jerk reactions to the announcement than actual facts. I suspect truthful information will slowly filter it's way into the general populous over the next few months, then we'll know for sure what the deal is, but for now, just keep using the client of your choice, and wait until it breaks ... (if it breaks) ... before spreading possibly untrue information about the change.



.


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Gene
 

But programs run properly on some machines and not others at times, which is the reason for wide spread beta testing.  I suspect that this is a UIA problem that affects some systems and not others.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jackie
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Gene, the problem is that many of us are running the latest update &
are experiencing no such difficulties.

On 5/21/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I agree.  While certain settings may affect this problem, I doubt that most
> of them do, and not all are appropriate for all computers, such as the
> resolution.  But the reason I'm doubtful that any settings changes will help
> is because this is a new problem after the latest Windows update.  It sounds
> to me like a UIA automation problem, which isn't user correctable.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original message -----
>
> From: Jackie
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:10 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
> W/all due respect, I will disagree w/some of these last comments. I've
> disabled graphics hotkeys, as inadvertently pressing these can cause
> display rotation. I'm not sure if that will cause problems w/NVDA if
> the display is unintentionally rotated, but I can tell you for certain
> sighted folks hate standing on their head to look at the screen. The
> resolution should be that supported by the monitor. Mine, for example,
> is 1920x1080.
>
> Steve, just out of curiosity, have you tried uninstalling & then
> reinstalling NVDA w/the latest update? I'm just wondering if something
> may have gotten corrupted here.
>
> On 5/21/18, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>>
>> I am wondering about what settings you have for the File Explorer.  I
>> have noticed that with some settings in Windows/file explorer since
>> Windows 7, that it doesn't interface well with screen readers.  In
>> particular, if you have under the view menu extra large icons or grid or
>> something other than list or details checked, you will have problems.
>> First check the view menu to see that either list or details is checked.
>>
>>
>> Also make sure that everything under the group by sub menu is
>> unchecked.  If anything is checked under that menu, it can result in
>> sluggishness and odd behavior.
>>
>>
>> Also under the graphics options sub menu there are sub menus. Under the
>> panel options only the display scaling is checked. Under the resolution
>> sub menu 1024 X 768 is checked. Under the rotaton sub menu, rotate to 0
>> degrees is checked.
>>
>> Under the hotkeys and tray icons sub menu, they are both enabled.
>>
>>
>> Check out these settings and make them conform to the suggestions above
>> and see if that helps with your file explorer issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/21/2018 11:10 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, this pretty much mirrors my experience, although I can never get
>>> NVDA to read the list now.
>>>
>>> NVDA is pretty horrible with File Explorer under Windows 10, and it’s
>>> got worse with this build.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>> *Annette Moore
>>> *Sent:* 20 May 2018 20:15
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>>
>>> I just close file explorer and reopen it when it starts acting funky.
>>> either that, or I shut down NVDA and restart it. Alternatively, I can
>>> sit here and stare at the computer for a few minutes, until it decides
>>> to behave itself, which it does eventually do. It has to be an NVDA
>>> thing, though, because it doesn't do this with System Access at all. I
>>> have trouble alt tabbing between windows when it wants to act up, and
>>> then I have trouble going through list items. It's like the cursor
>>> doesn't want to move through them but it actually does; it's just NVDA
>>> isn't reading me the items. I also find that if I have more than, say,
>>> two or three windows open and I close one of them, it starts working
>>> fine again. It's random, though, so I never know when it's going to
>>> misbehave. It's not aggravating enough to make me switch screen
>>> readers, though. I just figure it'll be fixed in a future update and
>>> go with it.
>>>
>>> Annette
>>>
>>> On 5/20/2018 11:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>>
>>>     So I wonder what is the determining factor then?
>>>
>>>     All the best
>>>
>>>
>>>     Steve
>>>
>>>     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>     <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>>>     *Greg Wocher
>>>     *Sent:* 20 May 2018 17:14
>>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>>
>>>     Hello,
>>>
>>>     I am running the latest version of NVDA on my HP laptop and I do
>>>     not have any issues using NVDA with file explorer. I am also using
>>>     the 1803 Windows update.
>>>
>>>     Greg Wocher
>>>
>>>         On May 20, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>>         <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         I’m assuming you haven’t tried it in the File Explorer app
>>>         then?  That’s the bug I was reporting.
>>>
>>>         All the best
>>>
>>>
>>>         Steve
>>>
>>>         *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>*On Behalf Of*Sarah k Alawami
>>>         *Sent:*18 May 2018 21:28
>>>         *To:*nvda list list <nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>         <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>>>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10
>>> 1803
>>>
>>>         I can't remember if I replied or not but lists are fine in the
>>>         explorer.exe app. I'm so far knock on wood not having any
>>>         issues as far as I can see, except for obs but that's probably
>>>         a broken app.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On May 16, 2018, at 1:03 AM, Steve Nutt
>>>             <steve@... <mailto:steve@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Hi,
>>>
>>>             I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not
>>>             reading for me.
>>>
>>>             It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don’t seem
>>>             to be reading.  For example, File Explorer in Windows 10
>>>             is completely silent for me now.
>>>
>>>             JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>>
>>>             Any thoughts?
>>>
>>>             Thanks.
>>>
>>>             All the best
>>>
>>>             Steve
>>>
>>>             --
>>>
>>>             Computer Room Services
>>>
>>>             77 Exeter Close
>>>
>>>             Stevenage
>>>
>>>             Hertfordshire
>>>
>>>             SG1 4PW
>>>
>>>             Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>>
>>>             Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>>
>>>             Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>>
>>>             Email:steve@... <mailto:steve@...>
>>>
>>>             Web:http://www.comproom.co.uk <http://www.comproom.co.uk/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
> Jackie McBride
> Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
> https://brighter-vision.com
>
>
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com